₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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Along with Satan, according to Job 1:6.

As you wish!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
As you wish!🙂

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Look, let me help you.
Since you cant study scripture.

"Only begotten" is actually translated from "monogenes" which means unique or one of its kind.

That is the argument you should use.

Go school, I nor gree. Go school, no, Watchtower is enough for me.

DeepSight:
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"Only begotten" is actually translated from "monogenes" which means unique or one of its kind.

That is the argument you should use.

Go school, I nor gree. Go school, no, Watchtower is enough for me.

If you know the highlighted then why asking me again?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
If you know the highlighted then why asking me again?🙂

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I always seek to force people to study and do better.

DeepSight:
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I always seek to force people to study and do better.

OK continue forcing them nah!😃

Arrogance won't allow many to have the common sense belonging to normal humans.

Instead of asking the right question you keep repeating yourself thinking that'll move a true believer.

Here is my response to QuinQ after the guy put the question in the right sense:

MaxInDHouse:
The word "BEGOTTEN" means born or come to existence in a special way!

Jesus is the one and only creature made by God directly but all other creatures exists through God's orders carried out by Jesus.

That's why the Bible book of Genesis keeps repeating God's orders to someone beside God during the creation of other things! John 1:2

“Let there be light.” Genesis 1:3

“Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” Genesis 1:6

“Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” Genesis 1:9

“Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” Genesis 1: 11

“Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” Genesis 1:14-15

“Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” Genesis 1:20

“Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” Genesis 1:24

“Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” Genesis 1:26

These are instructions or orders given to someone who is working beside God as a master craftsman {Proverbs 8:30} this is the person God first created as His first work {Proverbs 8:22} and the first born of all creation! Colossians 1:15

But since you are bent on insulting others you can't force me to answer you it's rather better that you continue with your arrogance elsewhere!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
OK continue forcing them!😃

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But as a non-Trinitarian you really should not be too worried about the subject. Because Jesus being a son of God is not really a contradiction for you. It is only a contradiction for Trinitarians.

QuinQ:
You have mouth to say this only because you're lucky not to be dealing with any supernatural attacks!
No one needs to tell those dealing with demonic attacks that Jesus is alive, and that demons tremble at mention of that name!
Give you an example, say someone were under supernatural attack and were close to suicide. They've tried everything, then they bump into Christianity and the tormenting demons suddenly fled at mention of Jesus, do you think anyone would need to convince them Christ is alive and active? They'd know for certain without any doubt!
There are many things we don't know and not everything goes by logic.

Yeah this is how you people demonise issues that have nothing to do with your spiritual mumbo jumbo. People overcome mental health challenges without needing that junk so don't gimme that.

Telling people mental health challenges are demonic is how you perpetuate your superstitions in this part of the world. In other parts of the world where rationality is more in play such junk doesn't fly.

kingxsamz:
That's because religious people love to make up all sorts of bs for whatever reason.
Like Mohammed splitting the moon or a Nigerian pastor having his foot print on a rock.

exactly, it worked then, why now?

DeepSight:
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But as a non-Trinitarian you really should not be too worried about the subject. Because Jesus being a son of God is not really a contradiction for you. It is only a contradiction for Trinitarians.

Your aggression irritates me that's why i refused to honor you!🙂

DeepSight:
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Look, let me help you.
Since you cant study scripture.

"Only begotten" is actually translated from "monogenes" which means unique or one of its kind.

That is the argument you should use.

Go school, I nor gree. Go school, no, Watchtower is enough for me.

LoLz. Many people's faith will be challenged if they were forced to study the bible in the original languages and learn the actual history of how the books came to our possession.

sonmvayina:
exactly, it worked then, why now?

Go and stop them nah!🤣

Humans have the right to believe whatever they want as long as they are not infringing on your own right!🤣

MightySparrow:
We

This is chatGPT generated view on your question.


Yes. Outside the Bible and Jewish historical writings, there are non-Christian, Greco-Roman sources that mention Jesus (or early Christians) within the 1st and early 2nd centuries AD. These are important because they come from hostile or neutral witnesses, not believers.
Below are the most credible and commonly cited sources.
1. Tacitus (Roman historian, c. AD 56–120)
Work: Annals (Book 15, Chapter 44)
Date written: c. AD 116
Tacitus describes Nero blaming Christians for the Great Fire of Rome and explains who they were:
“Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate…”
What this confirms:
Jesus existed
He was executed
Execution was under Pontius Pilate
During the reign of Tiberius Caesar
Tacitus was hostile to Christianity, making this testimony especially strong.
2. Pliny the Younger (Roman governor, c. AD 61–113)
Work: Letters (Letter 10.96)
Date written: c. AD 112
Pliny writes to Emperor Trajan asking how to deal with Christians:
They met on a fixed day before dawn and sang a hymn to Christ as to a god…
What this confirms:
Christians worshipped Jesus as divine
Christianity spread rapidly
Worship practices existed very early
3. Suetonius (Roman historian, c. AD 69–122)
Work: Lives of the Twelve Caesars
Date written: c. AD 120
He writes about Emperor Claudius:
“He expelled the Jews from Rome because they were constantly rioting at the instigation of Chrestus.”
Most scholars understand “Chrestus” as a reference to Christ, reflecting disputes among Jews about Jesus.
What this confirms:
Early conflicts about Christ
Jesus was known enough to cause unrest in Rome
4. Lucian of Samosata (Greek satirist, c. AD 125–180)
Work: The Passing of Peregrinus
Lucian mocks Christians and writes:
They worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account…
What this confirms:
Jesus was crucified
He was a religious leader
Christians worshipped Him
Lucian was openly mocking Christianity, not supporting it.
5. Mara bar-Serapion (Syrian philosopher, late 1st or early 2nd century)
Work: Letter to his son (in Syriac)
He refers to:
“The wise king of the Jews, whom the Jews executed…”
What this confirms:
Jesus was considered wise
He was executed
His influence continued after death
Important Clarification
You asked outside the Bible and Jewish history, so sources like:
Josephus
Talmudic writings
are excluded here, even though they do mention Jesus.
Scholarly Consensus
Virtually all serious historians (Christian, Jewish, secular, atheist) agree on these minimal facts:
Jesus of Nazareth existed
He was a Jewish teacher
He was crucified under Pontius Pilate
His followers worshipped Him shortly after His death
Christianity spread rapidly despite persecution
This is why the idea that “Jesus never existed” is considered fringe and unscholarly.

which of these people lived in Palestine or Galilee ?

MaxInDHouse:
Your aggression irritates me that's why i refused to honor you!🙂

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Holy Moses!

Gentle me?

LordReed:
LoLz. Many people's faith will be challenged if they were forced to study the bible in the original languages

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Too shua.

. . . and learn the actual history of how the books came to our possession.

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Reading the bible, let alone bothering with the translations from Hebrew/ Greek etc, is anathema to 90% of Christians.

Almost none of them will bother to know that the word translated as "virgin" for Mary, simply means "young woman."

MaxInDHouse:
The word "BEGOTTEN" means born or come to existence in a special way!

Jesus is the one and only creature made by God directly but all other creatures exists through God's orders carried out by Jesus.

That's why the Bible book of Genesis keeps repeating God's orders to someone beside God during the creation of other things! John 1:2

“Let there be light.” Genesis 1:3

“Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” Genesis 1:6

“Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” Genesis 1:9

“Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” Genesis 1: 11

“Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” Genesis 1:14-15

“Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” Genesis 1:20

“Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” Genesis 1:24

“Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” Genesis 1:26

These are instructions or orders given to someone who is working beside God as a master craftsman {Proverbs 8:30} this is the person God first created as His first work {Proverbs 8:22} and the first born of all creation! Colossians 1:15

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I have educated you on what is translated as only begotten and it does not mean what you claim here.

MaxInDHouse:
The word "BEGOTTEN" means born or come to existence in a special way!

Jesus is the one and only creature made by God directly but all other creatures exists through God's orders carried out by Jesus.

That's why the Bible book of Genesis keeps repeating God's orders to someone beside God during the creation of other things! John 1:2

“Let there be light.” Genesis 1:3

“Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” Genesis 1:6

“Let the waters under the heavens be collected together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” Genesis 1:9

“Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” Genesis 1: 11

“Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.  They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” Genesis 1:14-15

“Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” Genesis 1:20

“Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” Genesis 1:24

“Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” Genesis 1:26

These are instructions or orders given to someone who is working beside God as a master craftsman {Proverbs 8:30} this is the person God first created as His first work {Proverbs 8:22} and the first born of all creation! Colossians 1:15

So begotten means created? Wow! So why not just say created. Also when God said "let is make man...", why didn't he just say "make man in our image...". Proving he wasn't giving orders to someone. Also Psalm 33:9 made clear He spoke the world into existence, not through orders: "For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it appeared". Na wa for this your theology o.

QuinQ:
Jesus was almost totally unknown except by the few close to him. He was only known in retrospect after Christianity was somewhat established. So it is easy to say anything writen about him didn't refer to him!

The so called ''son of god''?

QuinQ:
You are arguing something that is long settled. This was a long-running argument between Jews and Christians - and Christians won because Jews removed the chapter from their Bible!

in your mind abi?

Can you post the copy of the jewish Tanakh without chapter 53?

DeepSight:
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Too shua.


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Reading the bible, let alone bothering with the translations from Hebrew/ Greek etc, is anathema to 90% of Christians.

Almost none of them will bother to know that the word translated as "virgin" for Mary, simply means "young woman."

Anytime it comes you can feel the wheels turning in their heads. LoLz.

DeepSight:
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Holy Moses!

Gentle me?

They always feel put upon when someone stands their ground on knowledge issues. LoLz.

sonmvayina:
There is no evidence that Jesus actually lived, so what would a real historian write about him?

It would be like writing a “history” of King Arthur or Robin Hood, about whom nothing is known but their names and some far-fetched legends.

Was the magical sword in the stone historical, or the bible’s “virgin birth”?

A serious historian would know there is no real evidence that Jesus existed.

Just hearsay.

All that we have is a “big fish” story in which a minnow became a whale.

How did that happen?

It happened because the gospels are fairytale book with:

A virgin birth
walking on water
A ludicrous ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE
and so on…
As with other books of ancient mythology, we can’t assume actual events are being depicted.

Thus, we have to seek confirmation outside the bible.

But no one who lived at the time Jesus allegedly lived wrote a single word about him.

The earliest extra-biblical mention we have of Jesus is an implausible blurb in the histories of Josephus, written long after the fact, if there are any facts.

Furthermore, 92.4% of scholars who expressed opinions deemed the blurb a christian forgery, either largely or entirely.

The next mention was by the Roman historian Tacitus, a century after the fact, and he got Pilate’s job title wrong, strongly suggesting that he was quoting what he had heard Roman christians say.

And hearsay is not evidence.

Thus there is no actual evidence that Jesus existed, or any of his apostles.

An honest historian would conclude that he couldn’t write a history of Jesus, only conjecture.

You are saying that the testimony of his apostles should not be regarded as historic records because they were not professional historians?
Who are you to decide whom's record qualify as historic works.
State your academy reasons why the testimony of Matthew, Mark Luke and John are not accepted as Historic records but the records on Alexander the great should be accepted?
Please give pure accepted academy/scholarstic reason not just your opinion.

Why do you think that John for example is not qualified to keep historical records about Jesus Christ?

sonmvayina:
which of these people lived in Palestine or Galilee ?

They did have to live in any of these places. Socrates, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Nebuchadnezzar, all lived before Christ and have mentions in history their legacies and historical records among their people's cannot be forgotten. Jesus Christ also cannot. His philosophy was taken to Europe, Americas, Rome and changed everything.. He became a landmark and threshold of history. Why would people like Paul, Peter,early church Fathers prefer to be matyred for a non- existent person?

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2 Peter 1:16-18

LordReed:
Yeah this is how you people demonise issues that have nothing to do with your spiritual mumbo jumbo. People overcome mental health challenges without needing that junk so don't gimme that.

Telling people mental health challenges are demonic is how you perpetuate your superstitions in this part of the world. In other parts of the world where rationality is more in play such junk doesn't fly.

I'd like to think so too, being scientifically minded, but experience dictates otherwise. There was this lady whose father was a member of some Ogboni-like secret cult. After her father died her brother refused to replace him in the cult as mandated by their rules. That's when it started happening: spiritual attacks on their family nonstop. They'd be raping her while she was walking in broad daylight. She ran to US to escape them and they followed her there. She ran deep into Christ and that's when the attacks eased off. Experiences like this abound. How does science and "mental health challenges" explain them??

QuinQ:
I'd like to think so too, being scientifically minded, but experience dictates otherwise. There was this lady whose father was a member of some Ogboni-like secret cult. After her father died her brother refused to replace him in the cult as mandated by their rules. That's when it started happening: spiritual attacks on their family nonstop. They'd be raping her while she was walking in broad daylight. She ran to US to escape them and they followed her there. She ran deep into Christ and that's when the attacks eased off. Experiences like this abound. How does science and "mental health challenges" explain them??

Quite well actually. The problem is most of us over here have is because the matter has been so soaked in spiritual mumbo jumbo they'd rather talk to a pastor than to mental health professional who can better diagnose and help them.

musicwriter:
You're speaking from the point of view of today as a rigid believer and as someone who doesn't know about ancient cultures and religious scencetism.

In ancient times, religion wasn't as rigid as it is today. People often adapted to new religions and took what is necessary.

That's what Rome did.

Before Rome adopted Christianity, they already had the son of God Mithra who died and shed his blood to save humanity, had 12 disciples, died and resurrected, etc. So, Rome didn't have any problem adopting and adapting to what was deemed good in Christianity. For POLITICAL purposes, they adapted to Christianity to conquer it.

If it was possible for you to wake up the early Judean Christians from the grave, you and them would be having two different religions. They weren't even called Christians. They began to be called Christians several years later in Antioch, Turkey. This was probably a different sect on its own

So speak as a non-rigid non-believer and tell us why, if in those times religion was freely allowed, Rome fervently and feverishly tried to suppress Christianity. Or are you also denying that the historically documented persecutions happened? You still haven't told us HOW it is Rome that conquered Christianity if Christian God replaced their cherished mighty gods and god-emperor as FALSE. You also still haven't told us if OT is also made up!

QuinQ:
I'd like to think so too, being scientifically minded, but experience dictates otherwise. There was this lady whose father was a member of some Ogboni-like secret cult. After her father died her brother refused to replace him in the cult as mandated by their rules. That's when it started happening: spiritual attacks on their family nonstop. They'd be raping her while she was walking in broad daylight. She ran to US to escape them and they followed her there. She ran deep into Christ and that's when the attacks eased off. Experiences like this abound. How does science and "mental health challenges" explain them??

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What sort of story is this.

LordReed:
Quite well actually. The problem is most of us over here have is because the matter has been so soaked in spiritual mumbo jumbo they'd rather talk to a pastor than to mental health professional who can better diagnose and help them.

A whole family became simultaneously mentally ill after their brother refused to replace their father in a secret cult! There are even some alfas or people like TB Joshua who acquired the capacity to be able to enter people's dreams. It has been long conclusively demonstrated - science CANNOT explain a lot of things!

DeepSight:
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What sort of story is this.

She actually wrote a small book about it

QuinQ:
So speak as a non-rigid non-believer and tell us why, if in those times religion was freely allowed, Rome fervently and feverishly tried to suppress Christianity. Or are you also denying that the historically documented persecutions happened? You still haven't told us HOW it is Rome that conquered Christianity if Christian God replaced their cherished mighty gods and god-emperor as FALSE. You also still haven't told us if OT is also made up!

You're not the same as the earliest Judean believers. You and them don't believe in the same thing.

Indeed, Rome conquered them by adopting part of their beliefs, changed it, and from then on imposed on you and others everything you all now believe as so called Christians.

Again, what you believe today is Roman version of the religion of the earliest Judeans. What a pity you have no idea!!

The earliest Judeans didn't believe that Jesus was not a God.

They didn't worship on Sunday.

They had no Bible as there was nothing like Bible then.

The didn't have a Christmas day for Jesus.

Etc.

Rome created all these and imposed on you. What a pity you don't even know the source of what you believe!!

sonmvayina:
The so called ''son of god''?

Exactly the point. That's the TOTAL PROOF you are dealing with the divine, because that's how God usually works. Not only was he unknown, even his closest friends were denying knowing him upon his "shameful" death. If you were dealing with something human that'd have been the end of the story. God raised Him from all that to.being worshipped as God till today!

musicwriter:
You're not the same as the earliest Judean believers. You and them don't believe in the same thing.

Indeed, Rome conquered them by adopting part of their beliefs, changed it, and from then on imposed on you and others everything you all now believe as so called Christians.

Again, what you believe today is Roman version of the religion of the earliest Judeans. What a pity you have no idea!!

The earliest Judeans didn't believe that Jesus was not a God.

They didn't worship on Sunday.

They had no Bible as there was nothing like Bible then.

The didn't have a Christmas day for Jesus.

Etc.

Rome created all these and imposed on you. What a pity you don't even know the source of what you believe!!

You still have not answered the simple questions you were asked but keep parroting the same inanity.
Everything you mentioned is irrelevant to Christian belief except worship of Jesus as God - you LIED! They worshipped Jesus as God almost from the very begining!

QuinQ:
A whole family became simultaneously mentally ill after their brother refused to replace their father in a secret cult! There are even some alfas or people like TB Joshua who acquired the capacity to be able to enter people's dreams. It has been long conclusively demonstrated - science CANNOT explain a lot of things!

They should go see a mental health expert, I am not one nor can a diagnosis be done by proxy. You thinking it is demonic is only emblematic of the problem with superstition in Africa and African culture.

For instance my daughter had persistent stomach ache not even doctors diagnosed properly until I figured out she had a wheat allegy. Left to people like you na prayer una go dey do. LoLz.