₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
This was one of the outcomes but you are forgetting that their living a life without eating the fruit is also an outcome.

So, there are 2 Outcomes.

And we can see that He was living and would have been living His Life based on that outcome of them not eating the fruit. So, that tells us, that He only made plans when Satan and man charged His original and first plans

Wrong.
Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If Jesus Christ was chosen to pay the price of sin before the foundation of the world, the plan was made even before the world was created. It is the one original plan of the Father.

tctrills:
You don't understand my question?
I asked,
Since you believe that man needs the ability to choose, in fact, you call the ability to choose what makes life meaningful and worth living. You must agree that the ability to choose good over evil comes from the knowledge of good and evil. So what was wrong with eating the fruit that gave us the knowledge of good and evil?

Now, I understand you.

The knowledge that good and evil exists is different from the knowledge to be able to do good or evil. The former was what man had before eating the fruit. The latter is what they had after eating tje fruit. That's why the first murder was recorded only after that.

The knowledge of what could be done is separate from the knowledge of how to do it.

FxMasterz:
Now, I understand you.

The knowledge that good and evil exists is different from the knowledge to be able to do good or evil. The former was what man had before eating the fruit. The latter is what they had after eating tje fruit. That's why the first murder was recorded only after that.

The knowledge of what could be done is separate from the knowledge of how to do it.

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Why then was Yahweh afraid that the man had become "like one of us, knowing good and evil.?

Does this not show, if we follow your distinction that Yahweh and his "us" were also capable of doing evil.

DeepSight:
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Why then was Yahweh afraid that the man had become "like one of us, knowing good and evil.?

Does this not show, if we follow your distinction that Yahweh and his "us" were also capable of doing evil.

Yes. Yahweh is capable of doing anything but He doesn't do evil.

FxMasterz:
Yes. Yahweh is capable of doing anything but He doesn't do evil.

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Seems you know better than him, since you are contradicting him. Its alright, never mind.

tctrills:
Wrong.
Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If Jesus Christ was chosen to pay the price of sin before the foundation of the world, the plan was made even before the world was created. It is the one original plan of the Father.

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You will end up becoming an atheist very soon.

DeepSight:
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Seems you know better than him, since you are contradicting him. Its alright, never mind.

There's no contradiction. It's all based on the fact that you've misunderstood a lot of things.

Yahweh does only good and not evil. When He judges someone for wickedness and brings evil upon him, that does not translate to him doing evil. If you see that as evil, you're having a lopsided judgement of that action. Let me give you an example.

A man has stolen your goat. He was caught, prosecuted and sentenced to prison. To the man and his loved ones, evil has befallen him. But to you who got justice, good has befallen you. This makes the matter of good and evil somehow subjective. But a wholistic look at the whole thing makes you know that justice is good but it's a bitter experience for the condemned.

These are in levels. There are crimes a person may commit against you that would lead to a death sentence. Evil has befallen the criminal, isn't it? But you who received justice would be glad that such good things have befallen you.

FxMasterz:
There's no contradiction. It's all based on the fact that you've misunderstood a lot of things.

Yahweh does only good and not evil. When He judges someone for wickedness and brings evil upon him, that does not translate to him doing evil. If you see that as evil, you're having a lopsided judgement of that action. Let me give you an example.

A man has stolen your goat. He was caught, prosecuted and sentenced to prison. To the man and his loved ones, evil has befallen him. But to you who got justice, good has befallen you. This makes the matter of good and evil somehow subjective. But a wholistic look at the whole thing makes you know that justice is good but it's a bitter experience for the condemned.

These are in levels. There are crimes a person may commit against you that would lead to a death sentence. Evil has befallen the criminal, isn't it? But you who received justice would be glad that such good things have befallen you.

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Justified judgement is not evil so you can't use that as an example.

DeepSight:
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Justified judgement is not evil so you can't use that as an example.

But justified judgement is what Yahweh does.

FxMasterz:
But justified judgement is what Yahweh does.

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This is what I cant stand. You pick a thing that is not evil and use it as an example of the evil that Yahweh says he does. Enough. Don't bother.

DeepSight:
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This is what I cant stand. You pick a thing that is not evil and use it as an example of the evil that Yahweh says he does. Enough. Don't bother.

Give me a scripture that says Yahweh DOES evil.

FxMasterz:
Give me a scripture that says Yahweh DOES evil.

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What's the point. I gave you one in which he says so himself but all you have done is dance around claiming that he really is referring to non evil things like justified judgement.

Why should I bother. If I were to start listing all of the abominations he has done in scripture, I will obviously be wasting my energy since you can contradict him directly.


Seriously, never mind. It doesn't matter.
Since he doesn't exist.

DeepSight:
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What's the point. I gave you one in which he says so himself but all you have done is dance around claiming that he really is referring to non evil things like justified judgement.

Why should I bother. If I were to start listing all of the abominations he has done in scripture, I will obviously be wasting my energy since you can contradict him directly.


Seriously, never mind. It doesn't matter.
Since he doesn't exist.

So, creating is the same as doing?

If Good and Evil are not created, how can anyone do them? God created them. They exist. That does not mean God does them.

And you read about all the extra biblical historical evidence in that same Isaiah 45 and all about the Book of Daniel only to conclude that God doesn't exist? I laugh in Swahili.

I told you, you don't understand many things.

FxMasterz:
So, creating is the same as doing?

If Good and Evil are not created, how can anyone do them? God created them. They exist. That does not mean God does them.

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So God creates evil but does not do evil.
Gotcha.

LordReed - "Word evil does not mean evil."

And you read about all the extra biblical historical evidence in that same Isaiah 45 and all about the Book of Daniel only to conclude that God doesn't exist? I laugh in Swahili.

I told you, you don't understand many things.

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I believe God exists.
Yahweh, in my view, is not God.

DeepSight:
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God creates evil buth does not do evil.
Gotcha.

LordReed - "Word evil does not mean evil."

Yes. I can create amala without eating amala. Gotcha!


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I believe God exists.
Yahweh, in my view, is not God.

Where's the ID or your god as the Creator of the world?

FxMasterz:
Yes. I can create amala without eating amala. Gotcha!


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Where's the ID or your god as the Creator of the world?

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Never mind.

DeepSight:
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Never mind.

I don't need to mind. All I know is that the creator or soccer needn't be a footballer. He doesn't even need to have two legs. Creation is different from Action.

And I know that your god has no Creator ID. Otherwise, you would have dangled it in my face as I dangled Yahweh's.

FxMasterz:
I don't need to mind. All I know is that the creator or soccer needn't be a footballer. Creation is different from Action.

And I know that your god has no Creator ID. Otherwise, you would have dangled it in my face as I dangled Yahweh's.

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I don't have the strength to go round in absurd circles. That's why I say never mind.

There is no difference between creating evil and doing evil. Evil is not food which one can make and not eat. It exists in its very nature. Anyone creating evil is doing evil. This is not something I can start going around in circles about.

You are right about my perception of God. Because I am agnostic mostly, so I pretty much have very little to say on that. I just have the notion logically and intuitively that there is an ultimate cause or source. Beyond that, I really don't know or claim to know much.

DeepSight:
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You will end up becoming an atheist very soon.

Says the boy who doesn't believe the bible.

tctrills:
Says the boy who doesn't believe the bible.

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Will you sharrrraaaaaaaaaaaap at once?
Now kneel down, close your eyes and raise up your hands.

What impudence, addressing your master in such a manner.

FxMasterz:
Now, I understand you.

The knowledge that good and evil exists is different from the knowledge to be able to do good or evil. The former was what man had before eating the fruit. The latter is what they had after eating tje fruit. That's why the first murder was recorded only after that.

The knowledge of what could be done is separate from the knowledge of how to do it.

Now this is crazy, you are saying that one can have the knowledge to do good and evil without knowing what is good or evil. Haba, how is that possible?
My 10-month-old baby doesn't know good or evil, but somehow, you think she should be able to choose between doing good and evil? How nah?

You really need to explain this, clearly and carefully.

DeepSight:
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Will you sharrrraaaaaaaaaaaap at once?
Now kneel down, close your eyes and raise up your hands.

What impudence, addressing your master in such a manner.

Sorry sir. But you dont believe the bible nah

DeepSight:
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I don't have the strength to go round in absurd circles. That's why I say never mind.

There is no difference between creating evil and doing evil. Evil is not food which one can make and not eat. It exists in its very nature. Anyone creating evil is doing evil. This is not something I can start going around in circles about.

Didn't I say that you don't understand many things?

Evil is a spiritually tangible force that can be unleashed. Same as Good . That's why we say "Hey, he has a good spirit." That means the person does good good. Good exists but not everyone does it. Evil exists but not everyone does it. Both exist because they were created not because they were done. If God does evil without creating evil. He'll be the only one doing evil because He didn't create it. It won't exist. If He does good without creating good, the same logic applies.

I can create a movie without being an actor in that movie.

You are right about my perception of God. Because I am agnostic mostly, so I pretty much have very little to say on that. I just have the notion logically and intuitively that there is an ultimate cause or source. Beyond that, I really don't know anymore claim to know much.

I have created a thread that should help your research in that direction if you're sincere.

tctrills:
Sorry sir. But you dont believe the bible nah

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The point is that you are asking a question which, if you think well, will lead you out of your bondage.

FxMasterz:
Didn't I say that you don't understand many things?

Evil is a spiritually tangible force that can be unleashed. Same as Good . That's why we say "Hey, he has a good spirit." That means the person does good good. Good exists but not everyone does it. Evil exists but not everyone does it. Both exist because they were created not because they were done. If God does evil without creating evil. He'll be the only one doing evil because He didn't create it. If The does good without creating good, the same logic applies.

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Pls forget this matter. It is absurd to say that one creating evil is doing no evil.

Aside from this, scripture is full of the many abominable and despicable acts of Yahweh.

I have create a thread that should help your research in that direction if you're sincere.

Nah. Not with the kind of reasoning you're offering here, I would not want to waste my time.

[quote author=tctrills post=138109206]Now this is crazy, you are saying that one can have the knowledge to do good and evil without knowing what is good or evil. Haba, how is that possible?
My 10-month-old baby doesn't know good or evil, but somehow, you think she should be able to choose between doing good and evil? How nah?

You really need to explain this, clearly and carefully.[/quote
No. Not like that.

I know that evil exists but I may not know how to do evil. For instance, you know that Yahoo crime exists but you may not know how to do Yahoo. And of course, you may decide never to do it. You could eventually do it if you were enticed by someone.

Please juxtapose this explanation with the Adam and Eve episode and see that they are the forbidden fruit only when they were enticed. The knew evil exists. Even the name of the fruit itself shows they knew it exists.

DeepSight:
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Pls forget this matter. It is absurd to say that one creating evil is doing no evil.

The absurdity is in saying that one creates evil also does evil. That means there's no purpose for anything. God just just creates things to do them.

God created food. Does The eat food? No.

Aside from this, scripture is full of the many abominable and despicable acts of Yahweh.

All lies. Bring me the so called scriptures.

Nah. Not with the kind of reasoning you're offering here, I would not want to waste my time.

Probably because you know too little about what I am reasoning about.

FxMasterz:
The absurdity is in saying that one creates evil also does evil. That means there's no purpose for anything. God just just creates things to do them.


All lies. Bring me the so called scriptures.





Probably because you know too little about what I am reasoning about.

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Alright.

FxMasterz:
I know that evil exists but I may not know how to do evil. For instance, you know that Yahoo crime exists but you may not know how to do Yahoo. And of course, you may decide never to do it. You could eventually do it if you were enticed.

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These contradictions are just too horrible. Let me not bother.

DeepSight:
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These contradictions are just too horrible. Let me not bother.

You'll understand it the moment you know what trigger or enlightenment is. When your eyes suddenly open and you come to the realization of something that's always there but now been seen differently. That's the type of knowledge we're talking about here as regards doing evil.

I don't think you'll ever understand.

And you should understand that the person who entices you to do Yahoo is also going to be your teacher.

FxMasterz:
You'll understand it the moment you know what trigger or enlightenment is. When your eyes suddenly open and you come to the realization of something that's always there but now been seen differently. That's the type of knowledge we're talking about here as regards doing evil.

I don't think you'll ever understand.

And you should understand that the person who entices you to do Yahoo is also going to be your teacher.

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I don hear.

tctrills:
Wrong.
Revelation 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If Jesus Christ was chosen to pay the price of sin before the foundation of the world, the plan was made even before the world was created. It is the one original plan of the Father.

No. You do not understand this.

Salvation via slaying of lamb came in Exodus which is even after Noah's world was washed away.

Then, the Holy Lamb was slain in Matthew's time.

So this declaration is just stating that God's Word also operates retroactively.