₦airaland Forum

Some will still come and say, "abroad is not easy, don't come".

seunmsg:
I started my working career at LIRS. I know more about compliance with PIT than you.

Kadoso Mutairu aka seunmsg!! Auditing kan, Kadoso kan ni.

seunmsg:
Less than 10% of Nigerians pay personal income tax. In fact, only those in well structured paid employment get to pay. Even at that, over 90% of them don’t pay up to 30%.

Again, it’s sad to see people ignorantly thinking their personal income taxes goes to FG. No, your taxes goes to your state government fully. Tinubu gets all the blame for the tax reform while state governors take every personal income tax. Even the VAT, states take 85% while FG takes 15%. Nigeria is probably the only country where the central government doesn’t take a dime from payroll tax. In US, Germany etc, FG takes the lion share from payroll tax. Not in Nigeria.

Have you ever in your life paid taxes in foreign soil?

Spewing rubbish because of your tribal support for the thing ruling you and feeling fly!

Kukutente23:
This is a lie
Dangote just came out to tell us that NMDPRA fees take over N300 per litre and you're still saying zero tax on petrol
When will you folks realise that there's more indirect taxes in Nigeria than direct taxes

Oya show me your own evidence.

MufasaLion:
In Nigeria, your tax will be used to fly in the hottest Latino and American thoties. No roads, no water, affordable houses, food, etc.

However, if you live in Lagos, you might have a bit taste of development and civilization.

He's already in Abu Dhabi saying his usual balablu now😄

Lithiumite:
What's the population of thise oil producing countries compared to how much they earn from oil,juxtapose that with Nigeria with far higher population and lesser oil income... what percentage of Nigerians pay personal income tax?

Your politicians are the primary reason why your country is under-developed. Anything else is secondary

nairalanda1:
Hahaham. I am coming..I day come.

Okay

1. Germany has a higher per Capita GDP. That's because it is an active exporter of manufactured goods and services. I mean we all know at least one international brand that is German.

Nigeria is a country that depends on income from 1.5 million bpd of crude and revenue from tax that never reach 23 billion dollars annually.

2. The man wants Nigerian government to do the same as German government on the budget we have?

Plus Every German pays tax to the central government and state government and even local government . Nigeria wey only ten million out of 230 million pay tax? Okay o.

And he dey compare am to Nigeria where only ten million people pay income tax and revenue from oyel is not up to 100 billion dollars annually ( Germany is spending 600 billion dollars this year as budget, compared to our 36 billion dollars )



We would end up with debts in the trillions of dollars in the next ten years if we did what he is demanding.

Someone wants government to do what 600 billion is doing with 36 billion. ? Na WA o.

Abeg, tinubu government is useless. As are all our past government including GEJ. Because if a country like Nigeria cannot do budget of 800 billion dollars by now, that means all our leaders are useless


And the thing is many Nigerians think that 36 billion dollars can guarantee a lifestyle that 600 billion dollars can cover. Na WA o.

We already know why it would be practically impossible to compare both countries. Germany has a much bigger economy, higher productivity and a broader tax base, so of course they can fund more services.

But that’s not even the point. The real question is: are current Nigerian policies moving us closer to fixing this? From what we’re seeing, NO! And that’s exactly why Nigerians have every right to complain.

Also, taxing a consumption-based economy is the worst move. You don’t grow revenue by squeezing consumers, you grow it by expanding production. A sensible approach would be to first support local production (eg through energy and machinery subsidies. Even modest ones), discourage unnecessary imports in sectors where we can compete, and fix insecurity so farmers and manufacturers can operate.

If you grow production, you grow jobs, incomes, tax base and then government capacity. That’s how Germany got there. Nigeria can’t tax its way into development. It has to produce its way into it!

emorse:
We already know why it would be practically impossible to compare both countries. Germany has a much bigger economy, higher productivity and a broader tax base, so of course they can fund more services.

But that’s not even the point. The real question is: are current Nigerian policies moving us closer to fixing this? From what we’re seeing, NO! And that’s exactly why Nigerians have every right to complain.

Exactly. Therein lies the problem. Not much attempt to bring in industrialization...

Also, taxing a consumption-based economy is the worst move. You don’t grow revenue by squeezing consumers, you grow it by expanding production. A sensible approach would be to first support local production (eg through energy and machinery subsidies. Even modest ones), discourage unnecessary imports in sectors where we can compete, and fix insecurity so farmers and manufacturers can operate.

If you grow production, you grow jobs, incomes, tax base and then government capacity. That’s how Germany got there. Nigeria can’t tax its way into development. It has to produce its way into it!

Okay

1.You don't grow revenue by squeezing customers...is a fallacy, respectfully speaking. In other words, you are advocating businesses sell at a loss to make consumers happy. The result is loss making businesses that do not work.

It was tried in communist countries in Europe, and most of them ended up in debts.

2.You also have to have the following in mind

Oil prices are falling. We need them at 150 dollars per barrel...that's our breakeven price...and it has been below 60 dollars per barrel since January last year. Oil has also been below the budget benchmarks for some time

Revenue from VAT and other small taxes has been falling. And VAT is quite simply not enough

Only ten million NIgerians pay tax

Tax to gdp is still way below EVEN the West African minimum


With the above in mind, where are subsides to stimulate production going to come from? The answer is more borrowing, or more printing of money or more ways and means spending (which is what we used to pay for fuel subsides in the last years of their existience)....which translates into...MORE DEBT.

Which has to be paid for by...MORE BORROWING.


Again, we need tax not to be 'prosperous' but to reduce our dependency on borrowing. And we need to do things like pay a cost reflective tarrif on electricity to improve productivity, among other things.

Government cannot , and yes, it is a shitty government that is a mess, but even if it was not corrupt, it can no longer pay for subsides as our population has long since outstripped our revenue's ability to sustain it

Which is why I scream on this site that we have to be an industrial nation, and that we have to rely on manufactured goods and services


(Poland used to set the price of agric products to let the poor breathe until 1989. The result was massive food scarcity issues from time to time. Once the Poles stopped price controls, and let farmers set prices...sure PRICES ROSE...but farmers were incentivised to produce more.).

One more thing....other countries pay for subsides via taxes. Nigeria earns less than 70 billion dollars from oil, even less from other revenue sources, and as such cannot pay for the subsides you want without going into debt...and this has been known since 1993.

Lithiumite:
Has the al sauds ever declared their assets for once,are they accountable to anyone,to the Saudis have the kind of political freedom you enjoy in Nigeria....Saudi Arabia is a homogeneous nation with one people,one religion,one philosophy compared to Nigeria,you refuse to support the current president who is trying is best to halt the decline in the economy and trying to set the country on a new trajectory just
because he isn't your tribe or because he bested your choice in 23.

Yes the decline from the obj/yard adua years started from GEJ.....Nigeria earned its highest oil revenues since the Gulf war era during the GEJ presidency but what did he achieve with all that money,he was infact even borrowing to pay salaries and subsidies.,buhari came to further tank the economy......what we are facing today is the result of the several years of rot in the economy and our problems didn't start today.

The funny part of this argument and comparison is that both has very different systems of government.

In a democratic system of government, officials must be publicly accountable including declaring their wealth for easy evaluation with after governance.

Comparing this with an Islamic monarchy system of government where a family is responsible for everyone's welfare is actually dump.

Even with the monarchy system where the government could have embezzled a huge amount of state wealth without any raising an eye brow - the Saudi citizen still enjoy the best of life such as:

- No income tax
- Free healthcare and education
- Heavily Subsidized fuel and food item.
- Good salaries and renumeration for most government workers.
- Housing assistance program.

The same oil running over 80% of their country.


But as I said before, two government systems with a democratic government having a better chance at governing legitimately due to the presence of checks and balances - sadly, reverse is the case.

Thanks to your kind who are their foot soldiers.

Tueh!

Stephen0mozzy:
You still believe that we evolved from tadpoles?

Na my mama born me. I don forget those tadpole and apes story.

Blunt99:
The funny part of this argument and comparison is that both has very different systems of government.

In a democratic system of government, officials must be publicly accountable including declaring their wealth for easy evaluation with after governance.

Comparing this with an Islamic monarchy system of government where a family is responsible for everyone's welfare is actually dump.

Even with the monarchy system where the government could have embezzled a huge amount of state wealth without any raising an eye brow - the Saudi citizen still enjoy the best of life such as:

- No income tax
- Free healthcare and education
- Heavily Subsidized fuel and food item.
- Good salaries and renumeration for most government workers.
- Housing assistance program.

The same oil running over 80% of their country.


But as I said before, two government systems with a democratic government having a better chance at governing legitimately due to the presence of checks and balances - sadly, reverse is the case.

Thanks to your kind who are their foot soldiers.

Tueh!

I am not a foot soldier for APC or OBi or atiku

So why can Saudis afford all these things?

Saudi Arabia has 40 million people, and produces 10million barrels per day...that means it earns in one year 220 billion dollars from oil sales assuming oil is sold at 60 dollars per barrel for the year, or per capita, each saudi gets 5500 dollars

Nigeria, has 230 million people, and produces 1.5 million barrels per day...that means it earns in one year 33 billion dollars...or per capita...143 dollars

That is why Saudi can afford all those things. For Nigeria to afford all that , we would need something like an income of 900 billion dollars-1.2 trillion dollars yearly. That is not possible on oil alone, but it is possible if, in addiiton to fighting corruption, nigeria runs an economy based on manufactured goods and services.

Or you can beg tinubu to take a loan of somewhere in the region of at least 800 billion dollars annually so that we can get all that...which would eventually leave us in debt to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. The poor would suffer am the most.

nairalanda1:
I am not a foot soldier for APC or OBi or atiku

So why can Saudis afford all these things?

Saudi Arabia has 40 million people, and produces 10million barrels per day...that means it earns in one year 220 billion dollars from oil sales assuming oil is sold at 60 dollars per barrel for the year, or per capita, each saudi gets 5500 dollars

Nigeria, has 230 million people, and produces 1.5 million barrels per day...that means it earns in one year 33 billion dollars...or per capita...143 dollars

That is why Saudi can afford all those things. For Nigeria to afford all that , we would need something like an income of 900 billion dollars-1.2 trillion dollars yearly. That is not possible on oil alone, but it is possible if, in addiiton to fighting corruption, nigeria runs an economy based on manufactured goods and services.

Or you can beg tinubu to take a loan of somewhere in the region of at least 800 billion dollars annually so that we can get all that...which would eventually leave us in debt to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. The poor would suffer am the most.

You are still making same mistake that started all these back and forth.

The issue is not that we are as rich or sparsely distributed like Saudi Arabia - it is that we are uncountable for the little we are generating.

For the 1.5 Million daily barrel (even though Nigeria has the potential to produce up to 3 million barrel if not for corruption and oil theft) how much is being remitted.

$200 billion oil remittance theft probe from 2015 swept under the carpet.

Estimated daily 400k barrel lose.

Over $10 billion lose in 4 years...

and these are the ones in the public - you can then imagine the scale of the ones we don't even know.


Having said that, what are the impacts of the 'little' remitted to the government that will make citizens say...

"Ya, this is what the government has been doing to ease our life, and if we can generate more from other sources like taxes, we are confident that this government can do more".


You don't just jump into building houses in a swamp, you first fill it to standard, before starting the building.


Your government has failed in every single human indices...

Political thieves cases are dropped once they cross to the ruling party - people that loot the 'so called' little that could have make a great impact...

But no, it is because we don't pay taxes - and when we start paying taxes, we will start enjoying the dividends of good governance or we protest, amidst counter protest from your kind and political crooks waiting to steal more without consequences.

Shame on you guys...

Blunt99:
The funny part of this argument and comparison is that both has very different systems of government.

In a democratic system of government, officials must be publicly accountable including declaring their wealth for easy evaluation with after governance.

Comparing this with an Islamic monarchy system of government where a family is responsible for everyone's welfare is actually dump.

Even with the monarchy system where the government could have embezzled a huge amount of state wealth without any raising an eye brow - the Saudi citizen still enjoy the best of life such as:

- No income tax
- Free healthcare and education
- Heavily Subsidized fuel and food item.
- Good salaries and renumeration for most government workers.
- Housing assistance program.

The same oil running over 80% of their country.


But as I said before, two government systems with a democratic government having a better chance at governing legitimately due to the presence of checks and balances - sadly, reverse is the case.

Thanks to your kind who are their foot soldiers.

Tueh!

Why would you compare potatoes with apples in the first place,you are nothing but a rabble rouser......simple arithmetic, divide the net revenues of both countries with their respective populations then see how misplaced your argument is,also on cheaper fuel, it's cheaper here in Nigeria than most oil producing countries.....always get your facts right and stop peddling half truths to impress your co haters

Lithiumite:
Why would you compare potatoes with apples in the first place,you are nothing but a rabble rouser......simple arithmetic, divide the net revenues of both countries with their respective populations then see how misplaced your argument is,also on cheaper fuel, it's cheaper here in Nigeria than most oil producing countries.

But you brought the Saudi into the discussion.

You started the whole Saudi sh!t, you dumbo

But no, I shouldn't compare, when you are the one that started the comparison.


Someone really said you can't be mentally alright and support APC.

and for your population revenue bullshit, go read my reply to that Naira guy.

Done with you.

BlackViper:
Dr. Baridueh Badon writes:




Source

Well, nobody is paying anything close to 30% as PIT in Nigeria, not before, not now.

Blunt99:
You are still making same mistake that started all these back and forth.

The issue is not that we are as rich or sparsely distributed like Saudi Arabia - it is that we are uncountable for the little we are generating.

For the 1.5 Million daily barrel (even though Nigeria has the potential to produce up to 3 million barrel if not for corruption and oil theft) how much is being remitted.

$200 billion oil remittance theft probe from 2015 swept under the carpet.

Estimated daily 400k barrel lose.

Over $10 billion lose in 4 years...

and these are the ones in the public - you can then imagine the scale of the ones we don't even know.


Having said that, what are the impacts of the 'little' remitted to the government that will make citizens say...

"Ya, this is what the government has been doing to ease our life, and if we can generate more from other sources like taxes, we are confident that this government can do more".


You don't just jump into building houses in a swamp, you first fill it to standard, before starting the building.


Your government has failed in every single human indices...

Political thieves cases are dropped once they cross to the ruling party - people that loot the 'so called' little that could have make a great impact...

But no, it is because we don't pay taxes - and when we start paying taxes, we will start enjoying the dividends of good governance or we protest, amidst counter protest from your kind and political crooks waiting to steal more without consequences.

Shame on you guys...

I am not defending corruption, old man, I am attacking the assumption you yourself are making that because we are oil nation, we should live as the Saudis should.

Shame on you for saying I support corrupt leaders.

And read my post again, and you will see where I state clearly what we should do, and it includes fighting corruption.

nairalanda1:
I am not defending corruption, old man, I am attacking the assumption you yourself are making that because we are oil nation, we should live as the Saudis should.

Shame on you for saying I support corrupt leaders.

And read my post again, and you will see where I state clearly what we should do, and it includes fighting corruption.

I can't even remember if I started this argument with you.

But the person who brought Saudi into the discus initially was never me, if you understand my first post clearly.


So, if the other guy can bring Saudi to compare two very different system of government to justify whatever nonsense points he wanted.

It is only right that I do the same, including a better living like the Saudi.

Maybe, you will get the point this time.

Regardless, do have a nice day.

Blunt99:
I can't even remember if I started this argument with you.

But the person who brought Saudi into the discus initially was never me, if you understand my first post clearly.


So, if the other guy can bring Saudi to compare two very different system of government to justify whatever nonsense points he wanted.

It is only right that I do the same, including a better living like the Saudi.

Maybe, you will get the point this time.

Regardless, do have a nice day.

Oga, better stop accusing everyone of defending corruption because they disagree with you.

Plus, YOU are saying NIGERIA, should be like Saudi if our government was serious. I have shown you that IF our government was serious, WE can't be like Saudi.

In response, you accused me of supporting corruption, despite my telling you repeatedly that Nigeria can be like Saudi if we fight corruption AND run an economy based on industrial goods and services.

You want what the Saudis have on less than 50 billion dollars? And you are abusing people who call you out on your assertion as government supporters?

LOL. You are not serious.

9jatriot:
I can almost swear that this guy is lying. Most of the things written there are either outright lies or not for everybody in the country.

After they finish selling these types of lies, Nigerians will now do all sorts of evil (even kidnapping), sell all their properties and then japa. Only to get there and find out the harsh realities that what was promised is different from what you get.

The first question any sensible person should ask is, if government does all of these things for people over there whay then are there still homeless people?

What Germans call tuition free University is still higher that what we pay in our public and maybe even private universities. Even though tuition free, by the time you pay all the other so-called small fees, it will add up and be more than what we call school fees here, but technically it is still called tuition-free.

I live in Germany everything he said here is the truth. You don't have to be a German citizen to obtain all those benefits. If you are a legal resident and you have a job and you are paying your taxes you are entitled to all benefits, not like Nigeria that base everything on tribalism. And about those living on the street it will shock you that majority are on the street base on self choice. There are homeless shelters scattered across the entire country, but they prefer the street than homeless shelter because it gives them control of their lives, and all of them receives their social security every month.

Yes, Germany has a bigger budget and stronger economy, but that didn’t happen by magic

Robertocarlos19:
I live in Germany everything he said here is the truth. You don't have to be a German citizen to obtain all those benefits. If you are a legal resident and you have a job and you are paying your taxes you are entitled to all benefits, not like Nigeria that base everything on tribalism. And about those living on the street it will shock you that majority are on the street base on self choice. There are homeless shelters scattered across the entire country, but they prefer the street than homeless shelter because it gives them control of their lives, and all of them receives their social security every month.

You didn't mention that tax on petrol is almost 70 cents per litre and VAT is 19% though.

Blunt99:
You are still making same mistake that started all these back and forth.

The issue is not that we are as rich or sparsely distributed like Saudi Arabia - it is that we are uncountable for the little we are generating.

For the 1.5 Million daily barrel (even though Nigeria has the potential to produce up to 3 million barrel if not for corruption and oil theft) how much is being remitted.

$200 billion oil remittance theft probe from 2015 swept under the carpet.

Estimated daily 400k barrel lose.

Over $10 billion lose in 4 years...

and these are the ones in the public - you can then imagine the scale of the ones we don't even know.


Having said that, what are the impacts of the 'little' remitted to the government that will make citizens say...

"Ya, this is what the government has been doing to ease our life, and if we can generate more from other sources like taxes, we are confident that this government can do more".


You don't just jump into building houses in a swamp, you first fill it to standard, before starting the building.


Your government has failed in every single human indices...

Political thieves cases are dropped once they cross to the ruling party - people that loot the 'so called' little that could have make a great impact...

But no, it is because we don't pay taxes - and when we start paying taxes, we will start enjoying the dividends of good governance or we protest, amidst counter protest from your kind and political crooks waiting to steal more without consequences.

Shame on you guys...

What you say about corruption, poloitical incompetence etc is correct.

If Nigeria had better used its resources in last 50 years, Nigeria will be much better than it is today.

But despite that, we can NEVER be like Saudi or Qatar or UAE on basis of being an oil nation. Oil nation get levels and we are far behind on a per capita basis.

1. Saudi does like 10mln barrels, we barely do 1.7mln
2. For UAE that does similar oil production to us, their population is much smaller (11mln) and they are are clusterd around just like 7 or 8 major cities. Nigeria is 230mln and clustered across 36 major State Capitals, and many other major cities that are not capitals that are even bigger than UAE cities such as Ogbomosho, Oyo, Shagamu, Ondo town, Ijebu Ode, Ijebu Igbo, Ilaro, Warri, Aba, Okigwe, Nsukka etc. Not to talk of the smaller towns that litter the length and breadth of Nigeria.
3. We assume everything in those countries are built by the government. I hope you know that development comes by public sector investment and private sector investment. If Dubai makes itself a hub for regional finance and manufacturing, if Microsoft needs an office space for 1000 staff, do you think its government that builds it for them? Private companies will build high rise office space and lease it to Microsoft. Nigerian man will go to Dubai and say see what their government are doing with their money.

nairalanda1:
Exactly. Therein lies the problem. Not much attempt to bring in industrialization...



Okay

1.You don't grow revenue by squeezing customers...is a fallacy, respectfully speaking. In other words, you are advocating businesses sell at a loss to make consumers happy. The result is loss making businesses that do not work.

It was tried in communist countries in Europe, and most of them ended up in debts.

2.You also have to have the following in mind

Oil prices are falling. We need them at 150 dollars per barrel...that's our breakeven price...and it has been below 60 dollars per barrel since January last year. Oil has also been below the budget benchmarks for some time

Revenue from VAT and other small taxes has been falling. And VAT is quite simply not enough

Only ten million NIgerians pay tax

Tax to gdp is still way below EVEN the West African minimum


With the above in mind, where are subsides to stimulate production going to come from? The answer is more borrowing, or more printing of money or more ways and means spending (which is what we used to pay for fuel subsides in the last years of their existience)....which translates into...MORE DEBT.

Which has to be paid for by...MORE BORROWING.


Again, we need tax not to be 'prosperous' but to reduce our dependency on borrowing. And we need to do things like pay a cost reflective tarrif on electricity to improve productivity, among other things.

Government cannot , and yes, it is a shitty government that is a mess, but even if it was not corrupt, it can no longer pay for subsides as our population has long since outstripped our revenue's ability to sustain it

Which is why I scream on this site that we have to be an industrial nation, and that we have to rely on manufactured goods and services


(Poland used to set the price of agric products to let the poor breathe until 1989. The result was massive food scarcity issues from time to time. Once the Poles stopped price controls, and let farmers set prices...sure PRICES ROSE...but farmers were incentivised to produce more.).

One more thing....other countries pay for subsides via taxes. Nigeria earns less than 70 billion dollars from oil, even less from other revenue sources, and as such cannot pay for the subsides you want without going into debt...and this has been known since 1993.

So where will sufficient taxes come from? Bear in mind that about 140m Nigerians live below the poverty line. That's close to 70% of the population. How much can a people who cannot afford $3 a day contribute to the national purse?

This is why I strongly believe that if we succeed in fighting corruption, we will be in a very good position to industrialise and then improve tax income.

emorse:
So where will sufficient taxes come from? Bear in mind that about 140m Nigerians live below the poverty line. That's close to 70% of the population. How much can a people who cannot afford $3 a day contribute to the national purse?

This is why I strongly believe that if we succeed in fighting corruption, we will be in a very good position to industrialise and then improve tax income.

If we fight corruption we would still have a budget of 36 billion dollars.

That doesn't do much for industrialization or anything

nairalanda1:
If we fight corruption we would still have a budget of 36 billion dollars.

That doesn't do much for industrialization or anything

At least a good part of the $36b could go into fighting insecurity, and providing electricity (even if only for industrial use) instead of it ending in private pockets as it does now.

Or is there a better solution? Kindly share.

emorse:
At least a good part of the $36b could go into fighting insecurity, and providing electricity (even if only for industrial use) instead of it ending in private pockets as it does now.

Or is there a better solution? Kindly share.

LOL...36 billion is not enough for all that.

Plus, how would we sort out other issues that need attending to. Na only insecurity, and electricity? Where is education, healthcare, etc, etc, coming in.

You guys don't realize how broke we are and how we need to take some hard measures, and also fight corruption. You don't know the half of it.

Flangelo12:
It is not.

Tax Germany received in 2025 is 990 Billion Dollars.

Almost 4 times Nigeria's GDP.

Why not or if financial corruption is cancerous to Germany like Nigeria, will her economy looks good like that?