₦airaland Forum

ponziponzi:
The problem is that many products imported will be cheaper than the locally produced. This is due to their scale of production, infrastructure development and matured supply chain that affects the cost of production. If Nigeria wants to base the survival of local industries on cost of imported substitutes, that will be a disaster.

Local products being more expensive is not justifiable in my view. Labour is cheaper here. Far cheaper. Dangote refinery is one of the largest in the world - so what scale are they lacking? They're producing the energy they use, so what cost exactly are they dealing with?

If not for dangote, criminals marketers could have sold petrol for #1,500 or #2,000 per liter by now.

Think of what's good for the nation.

We need to stop importing fuel totally, so we reduce our imports, this will reduce our demand for dollars, to pay for oil imports, this will boost naira value...we should think of exporting fuel and finished crude products not importing. If we want to develop our economy and make our currency strong, we must export much more than we import.

If we start processing and exporting finished products of all our crude oil, Nigeria will be a developing economy in no time, and more wealthy.

ponziponzi:
The problem is that many products imported will be cheaper than the locally produced. This is due to their scale of production, infrastructure development and matured supply chain that affects the cost of production. If Nigeria wants to base the survival of local industries on cost of imported substitutes, that will be a disaster.

You are talking nonsense that defies facts on ground... Dangote has been selling cheaper than importers...is that not why importers were complaining that Dangote want to drive them out of business?

Have you not been in Nigeria or just talking for sake of it...is it not since Dangote came on that fuel started coming down?

Dangote is producing at large scale, his refinery is one of the biggest in the world, Dangote even export. All you said is fallacy and fiction.

anonimi:
There is no chance of Dangote's PDP-licenced refinery doing anything like that since APC propagandists have been running two NNPC refineries since 29015, and even exported fuel from the PH refinery in 2024. Is God not wonderful?


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Spinning the usual thrash.

When will the hatred of your country progress stop?

You are gradually becoming incoherent.

Nobody but their body go tell them that era of fuel importation is over. Dangote go use frequent price reductions wound them. Like he said, either him and his refinery or the fuel importers must pack up for the other . Alaye is not joking at all.
When will his refinery be listed on SEC?

Good for them,the wanted to bring down Dangote,they don't want system to work so that they can exploit the poor people.

oluwatomiwa:
Dangote the master strategist . He will lose now to cage and gain later. Marketing 101 lecturer/Prof

You gerrit. He already said it, him or them, he's not even hiding it.
The one who was using importing tickets to hurt local refining, see what Alaye did to him! He resigned sharp sharp, and his case has been moved from ICPC to EFCC

When farouk Ahmed was giving them license to import in order to compete with dangote, they were forming jagaban. Now that he has been s asked, he should come and help them sell the 1.7 trillion naira fuel and even the imported fuel most times end up being substandard fuel ⛽. These guys better wake up because it's game over for the oil cabals

dre11:
https://newtelegraphng.com/pms-importers-face-n1-77trn-loss-over-marketers-preference-for-local-products/

dequir:
Spinning the usual thrash.

When will the hatred of your country progress stop?

You are gradually becoming incoherent.

When you stop your own hatred for truth.

Lordofalmajiri:
Importers will have no choice but to align eventually... We must support local production that fuels our economy and provides employment opportunities.

We can only hope Dangote will not turn up price on us later on.

Lol, we pray bua finishes their refinery fast so that there will be competition. I just hope it won't be a duopoly then though.

ruffhandu:
yeah. It is tinubu, his brother and their men that are petrol importers. You think they will incur any losses?

Oga, stop talking like a kid. Being president doesn't give you the right to dip hands into the national coffers. No president no matter his / her powers can carry out primitive stealing! There has to be a project to back that stealing. Therefore, it will be foolhardy of the president to suggest subsidy for PMS at this point in time

Misterone:
Oga, stop talking like a kid. Being president doesn't give you the right to dip hands into the national coffers. No president no matter his / her powers can carry out primitive stealing! There has to be a project to back that stealing. Therefore, it will be foolhardy of the president to suggest subsidy for PMS at this point in time

It is obvious your level of enlightenment and education. Do you know what is called "ways and means"?
What is subsidy?

Lordofalmajiri:
Importers will have no choice but to align eventually... We must support local production that fuels our economy and provides employment opportunities.

We can only hope Dangote will not turn up price on us later on.

After using tribe and religion to vote in bad government that promises to reduce your purchasing power, you now hoping that the prices of petroleum products will not increased.
Continue to hope!

ribbit:
That's a lesson for those who believe that Nigerians actually prefer foreign products.


Nigerians want cheap quality products not foreign.

Those locally made rice would have chased foreign rice out of the market if they actually produce good quality rice and lower price.

But no, their greed won't let them be.

Greed?
You celebrate Nigerian government when they removed subsidy and accused Nigerian farmers of greed while consuming a foreign product subsidized by there government.

ribbit:
mostly greed.

Buhari heavily supported and subsidized them.

Bring out the list of those Buhari subsidized?

Importers will be fully banished in around 2 years when at least one of around 2 to 3 planned refineries (with BUA's effort closest to completion) come on board fully.

It's the way it should be and in fact we have taken far too long to get here because Nigeria, given her crude endowment it should have used to tranform our nation into Saudi Arabia, has no business importing refined derivatives of crude.

If anything we should be moving towards what Singapore has achieved. Despite having no crude itself, Singapore mastered the crude refining sector to be a major global player in it with a few refineries.

These are not things we should have to be directed to act upon or take advantage of if not that black African leaders, who come from the people by the way, are myopic, greedy, patently corrupt, lack goodwill for their fellow men and are bereft of selflessness/zeal/vision to work towards a great future for their people.

JuanDeDios:
This is how it's done. You make local products more attractive. This message is for those who were calling for a ban on PMS importation.

Absolutely. This is why many support PBAT. He believes in providing the environment where a truly free market economy for Nigeria, driven by healthy competition beneficial to citizens and the nation itself, can emerge, evolve and thrive.

Crystal clear what we had before PBAT (see below) was a command economy under Presidents from 1999 to 2023.

WizardOfNG:
Absolutely. This is why many support PBAT. He believes in providing the environment where a truly free market economy for Nigeria, driven by healthy competition beneficial to citizens and the nation itself, can emerge, evolve and thrive.

Crystal clear what we had before PBAT (see below) was a command economy under Presidents from 1999 to 2023.

While I'm not a fan of Tinubu (I dislike his politics), I can't disagree with you on this. In fact, I've always noted his market leanings with approval. During the last presidential media chat, I still recall how Otitoju asked him about "price control" and he totally destroyed the notion. And I said, finally a president who understands basic economics.

JuanDeDios:
While I'm not a fan of Tinubu (I dislike his politics), I can't disagree with you on this. In fact, I've always noted his market leanings with approval. During the last presidential media chat, I still recall how Otitoju asked him about "price control" and he totally destroyed the notion. And I said, finally a president who understands basic economics.

I find your objective and progressive mindset commendable and one I wish everyone can emulate.

I.e a disposition for seeing the big picture always even if one has issue with individuals involved.

Tinubu is the President Nigeria needs for now because we have to reform Nigeria to become a nation where individual have everything they need to be successful, wealthy and productive solutions-providers for themselves and their nation.

We need a land of opportunities "template, like a customised version of what applies to the USA , where the system is designed to maximise the socio-economic value and input of every citizen to make a great and succesful nation and people.

We can only achieve this by transitioning away from the largely subsidy-driven past of Nigeria, that has made Nigerians unproductive and 'blunt' human resources tool, towards a socio-capitalist nation, driven by a free market economy, that will produce optimally developed and competitive human resources able to grow themselves and their nation.

Tinubu understands this concept well even if it is alien to most Nigerians.

ruffhandu:
It is obvious your level of enlightenment and education. Do you know what is called "ways and means"?
What is subsidy?

Stop talking nonsense! Just because of your prejudice for a candidate and you heart filled hate for the APC, you want to throwaway the baby with the bath water. Ways and means is done to meet up the budget, not to do something ridiculous!

ponziponzi:
The problem is that many products imported will be cheaper than the locally produced. This is due to their scale of production, infrastructure development and matured supply chain that affects the cost of production. If Nigeria wants to base the survival of local industries on cost of imported substitutes, that will be a disaster.

You are right. But Dangote has worked around that. Dangote Refinery operates at a very larger scale, helping it to enjoy the economies that come with such scale and compete favourably with imported fuel.

Misterone:
Stop talking nonsense! Just because of your prejudice for a candidate and you heart filled hate for the APC, you want to throwaway the baby with the bath water. Ways and means is done to meet up the budget, not to do something ridiculous!

You are the one talking bullshit. I guess Buhari used ways and means to meet up budget. And your president who had believed in 'just print money' also will use it to meet up budget. Keep talking trash. Prejudice rararara nwai

ruffhandu:
You are the one talking bullshit. I guess Buhari used ways and means to meet up budget. And your president who had believed in 'just print money' also will use it to meet up budget. Keep talking trash. Prejudice rararara nwai

stop spewing trash over the net. You just open your mouth to yap nonsense! Ways and means is a method used by the executive arm of government to meet up funds for items budgeted for when there are no real funds available. For example wages and salary etc. it is not a security vote that can be spent on frivolous activities. Try get sense small. And stop spreading lies and propaganda!

ribbit:
That's a lesson for those who believe that Nigerians actually prefer foreign products.


Nigerians want cheap quality products not foreign.

Those locally made rice would have chased foreign rice out of the market if they actually produce good quality rice and lower price.

But no, their greed won't let them be.

Mumu talk

Do you know how much local farmers spend to farm rice? They buy fuel daily, price of fertilizer at 55k minimum per bag. Herbicide Chemicals, seedlings, price of daily labour on the farm etc. plus the risk they take by going to farm due to kidnapping/ robbery.

Go and farm your own rice then come back and tell us how far.

JuanDeDios:
Local products being more expensive is not justifiable in my view. Labour is cheaper here. Far cheaper. Dangote refinery is one of the largest in the world - so what scale are they lacking? They're producing the energy they use, so what cost exactly are they dealing with?

Okay, I wasn’t talking specifically about Dangote, but about our general manufacturing ecosystem. You can’t base the viability of your industries solely on imported prices. If you do that, it’s a recipe for disaster, many companies will go bankrupt and will be unable to compete. Take industries like rice production, steel, and textiles. There is no realistic way to produce these cheaper than imported products. Even breweries operating in Nigeria benefit from a 20% tariff; otherwise, Guinness would just import bulk Stout, much like P&G is now doing after closing its local manufacturing base.

Labour is not the only factor determining the final cost of manufacturing. There are many other factors. For example, China’s labour costs are at least 3× higher than India’s, yet goods can still be cheaper in China. That’s why many manufacturers still prefer to set up in China. it’s about scale, supply chain efficiency, and quality, not just labour.

Regarding Dangote, they operate one of the largest single refineries in the world, with an installed capacity of 650,000 bpd. While impressive, this is still small compared to companies producing 2–5 million bpd across multiple refineries. Also, many of Dangote’s engineers are still expatriates due to the limited pool of experienced refinery engineers in Nigeria. Building local expertise will take time. One factor i consider critical is the quality of imported products. Imported gasoline may be cheaper, but the quality is often lower than what is produced domestically. Importers may sell at a lower price because the product doesn’t fully meet Nigerian standards. We've heard that there are no standard testing facilities to ensure compliance, so anything go. Consider this, why is the price of PMS in Nigeria at least 50% cheaper than in other West African countries even without subsidies? Are other countries cheating their people, or are they simply holding a higher quality standard? I don’t know. Is Dangote making money on PMS, or selling below cost to gain market share? Again, I don’t know.

What I expect from government policy is to ensure that both importers and indigenous companies adhere to the same standards, and that Dangote and other domestic producers are able to cover production costs with a reasonable margin, so their operations are sustainable in the long term.

8

Misterone:
stop spewing trash over the net. You just open your mouth to yap nonsense! Ways and means is a method used by the executive arm of government to meet up funds for items budgeted for when there are no real funds available. For example wages and salary etc. it is not a security vote that can be spent on frivolous activities. Try get sense small. And stop spreading lies and propaganda!

Speaking with half information. Do yiu know tjw rules guodong ways and means? Do you know how buhari abused ways and means?

dederocs:
You are talking nonsense that defies facts on ground... Dangote has been selling cheaper than importers...is that not why importers were complaining that Dangote want to drive them out of business?

Have you not been in Nigeria or just talking for sake of it...is it not since Dangote came on that fuel started coming down?

Dangote is producing at large scale, his refinery is one of the biggest in the world, Dangote even export. All you said is fallacy and fiction.

Calm down. As I mentioned above, my comment wasn’t specifically about Dangote, it was referring to Nigerian general manufacturing industry. Nigeria cannot base the viability of its industries on the price of imported products. For example, imagine if China decided to sell steel below production cost and flood the market with it just to keep its steel industry running and its people employed. If Nigeria, or any other country, tried to base the viability of its steel industry on such prices, local companies would inevitably go bankrupt.

Regarding Dangote, who knows if they are selling below market price to gain market share, which is clearly unsustainable? The question I keep asking is: why is PMS in other West African countries at least double what you guys pay in Nigeria? Are they doing you guys a favour, are other countries cheating their people, or are Nigeria simply importing cheaper, lower-quality PMS with little or no regulation? I don’t know.

FYI, aside from the significant increase in local offtake in November and December, Dangote supplied less than 40% of Nigeria’s daily PMS consumption, with the majority still being imported. Dangote is likely exporting the excess that wasn’t taken locally, mainly because imported PMS, which is cheaper and possibly of questionable quality, dominates the market.

ribbit:
That's a lesson for those who believe that Nigerians actually prefer foreign products.


Nigerians want cheap quality products not foreign.

Those locally made rice would have chased foreign rice out of the market if they actually produce good quality rice and lower price.

But no, their greed won't let them be.

It's not greed, rather it's their cost profile. The Nigerian farmer (big and small) has to buy more expensive inputs, per-unit wise (fertilizer etc), in what are essentially scarcity-plagued markets.

If you look at the dangote case,you'll see that scale-economies have transformed everything. Nigeria was consuming 50-55 million liters of PMS a day, with the big importers bringing in 20 to 25 million, and NNPC bringing in varying amounts from 20 to 30+ million to balance things. The market was very volatile, esp on the importer end with forex, working capital and cash flow issues affecting their ability to bring in cargoes.

There were shortages, but Dangote has muscled through with his 650k/day facility (20 billion usd project) to pour in 25 million liters per day by late last year and I believe by December they did up to 30-35 million barrels.
He has changed the demand supply equilibrium for us, naturally driving price down, while gaining market share and eliminating the literal need for the importers. The PIA favors local refineries for crude allocation and restricts importing if local capacity can meet our needs. That's why it's worked. The sheer scale of the venture.

Interestingly, his petrochemical plant can help rewrite the input costs for farmers and ease with the agric product issue. There just isn't scale there, alongside poultry and fisheries. The local supply capacity is low, its bereft of the requisite financing to scale it out and the imports are price-competitive with lower entry-barriers and quite frankly are servicing unmet demand.

That's the issue. PMS is a done deal tho. The idea of a billionaire fuel importer being an anchor of the national economy is non existent at this point.

The strategic players will take advantage of their distribution and retail infrastructure to compete or work with their NNPC buddies to buy out the refineries and get those to be working, if they want to maintain midstream presence and not be restricted to just the downstream.

Lol.. these importers obviously didn’t read the room 😂

Serves them right.

Kudos to Dangote and other local refiners

ruffhandu:
8

Speaking with half information. Do yiu know tjw rules guodong ways and means? Do you know how buhari abused ways and means?

Oga stop talking about what you don't know. You don't even know your left hand from your right hand! Buhari abused ways and means how? Every government has its style of governance. Just like Obi was saving money in his bank while there were no public schools, good access roads in the capital and poorly funded hospitals. His aim of saving was just the interest on the funds. Buhari preferred to pay workers and other things even if there's no money

ponziponzi:
Calm down. As I mentioned above, my comment wasn’t specifically about Dangote, it was referring to Nigerian general manufacturing industry. Nigeria cannot base the viability of its industries on the price of imported products. For example, imagine if China decided to sell steel below production cost and flood the market with it just to keep its steel industry running and its people employed. If Nigeria, or any other country, tried to base the viability of its steel industry on such prices, local companies would inevitably go bankrupt.

Regarding Dangote, who knows if they are selling below market price to gain market share, which is clearly unsustainable? The question I keep asking is: why is PMS in other West African countries at least double what you guys pay in Nigeria? Are they doing you guys a favour, are other countries cheating their people, or are Nigeria simply importing cheaper, lower-quality PMS with little or no regulation? I don’t know.

FYI, aside from the significant increase in local offtake in November and December, Dangote supplied less than 40% of Nigeria’s daily PMS consumption, with the majority still being imported. Dangote is likely exporting the excess that wasn’t taken locally, mainly because imported PMS, which is cheaper and possibly of questionable quality, dominates the market.

You are talking nonsense once again...you don't know anything about his cost of production and how much he gets crude for compared to how much he sells his products, you poor myopic man can't sit in your house and say Dangote business model is not sustainable...you are just talking nonsense still.