₦airaland Forum

BlackfireX:
Islam is inconsequential in facts and historical things ... see Islam was tolerated because it was overlooked but now' eyes don open wella'

Seems you are not hearing


Trinity is the father son and holy spirit.

Not Jesus Mary and Allah

I repeat which expose the cluelessness of Alalh

No where have the christains put Mary or Alah as part of the Trinity so for Allah not to know is ....what...cluelessness.


Since you try to say it was not stated that Trinity is Jesus Mary and Alah ... I will pull it up if you responded with lies again.
See how you are exposing yourself ...Allah didn't know what the trinity was. The evidence is before you.

Which yeye eyes dey open? last I checked it's Christianity that is now suffering heavily with the availability of scholarly works here and there.
All we have been hearing before is eye witness accounts bla bla bla, now we know they are not so eye witness, more like hearsay and gossips written by unknowns or outright forgeries in some cases.

You need to quit this strawmanning regarding how trinity is described in the Qur'an, it is not looking good on you, you are only exposing ur cluelessness and dishonesty

Qur'an does not anywhere define Trinity as Father, Mary and Jesus, what Qur'an does is condemn people worshipping Mary. Historically, there had been people that did that, even this present day some Christians venerate and pray to Mary, or you think a book that is so much about unity of God is wrong in condemning Christians that engaged in such act?

What Qur'an says concerning Trinity is
"Do not say "trinity" stop for your own good."
We know over the years there have been different from of trinity such as Modalism, Arianism, Tritheism and all different kinds, just name it.
To know how bad it is, Tertullian the first to use the term would even have been an heretic as it is later defined by the nicene-constantinopolitan creed. What Qur'an is doing is condemning every form of trinity, even if you wish to add your own form (Father, Mary and Son) that you are trying very hard to impose on the Qur'an.

Qasim6:
➜Which yeye eyes dey open? last I checked it's Christianity that is now suffering heavily with the availability of scholarly works here and there.
All we have been hearing before is eye witness accounts bla bla bla, now we know they are not so eye witness, more like hearsay and gossips written by unknowns or outright forgeries in some cases. You need to quit this strawmanning regarding how trinity is described in the Qur'an, it is not looking good on you, you are only exposing ur cluelessness and dishonesty
Qur'an does not anywhere define Trinity as Father, Mary and Jesus, what Qur'an does is condemn people worshipping Mary. Historically, there had been people that did that, even this present day some Christians venerate and pray to Mary, or you think a book that is so much about unity of God is wrong in condemning Christians that engaged in such act?
What Qur'an says concerning Trinity is "Do not say "trinity" stop for your own good." We know over the years there have been different from of trinity such as Modalism, Arianism, Tritheism and all different kinds, just name it. To know how bad it is, Tertullian the first to use the term would even have been an heretic as it is later defined by the nicene-constantinopolitan creed. What Qur'an is doing is condemning every form of trinity, even if you wish to add your own form (Father, Mary and Son) that you are trying very hard to impose on the Qur'an.

1. I am not here to hold brief for those of the Christian religion since that issue is left for the Christian section, which this thread is not on. I do have an issue with you denying the claim that Jesus Christ claimed that YHWH was His Father... He was literally referred to as "Son of God"... in the Gospels, which the Quran affirms. 🥱🥱🥱

So, is this an attempt by your person to deny the Quran or suggest that it is wrong to assert that the Quran is erroneous in affirming the Torah and the Gospels as truths?

Kobojunkie:
1. I am not here to hold brief for those of the Christian religion since that issue is left for the Christian section, which this thread is not on. I do have an issue with you denying the claim that Jesus Christ claimed that YHWH was His Father... He was literally referred to as "Son of God"... in the Gospels, which the Quran affirms. 🥱🥱🥱

So, is this an attempt by your person to deny the Quran or suggest that it is wrong to assert that the Quran is erroneous in affirming the Torah and the Gospels as truths?

I don't know where I say anything that implies I'm denying Jesus Christ claimed YHWH was his father.

But let me ask you this

Is Jesus as "son of God" the same across the 4 canonical gospels?

Qasim6:
✓ I don't know where I say anything that implies I'm denying Jesus Christ claimed YHWH was his father.
But let me ask you this. Is Jesus as "son of God" the same across the 4 canonical gospels?

I would ask what gave you the impression that the Gospels do not all hold the same views regarding Jesus Christ of Israel being the Son of God? Where does this notion of yours come from? 🥱🥱

Qasim6:
Which yeye eyes dey open? last I checked it's Christianity that is now suffering heavily with the availability of scholarly works here and there.
All we have been hearing before is eye witness accounts bla bla bla, now we know they are not so eye witness, more like hearsay and gossips written by unknowns or outright forgeries in some cases.

You need to quit this strawmanning regarding how trinity is described in the Qur'an, it is not looking good on you, you are only exposing ur cluelessness and dishonesty

Qur'an does not anywhere define Trinity as Father, Mary and Jesus, what Qur'an does is condemn people worshipping Mary. Historically, there had been people that did that, even this present day some Christians venerate and pray to Mary, or you think a book that is so much about unity of God is wrong in condemning Christians that engaged in such act?

What Qur'an says concerning Trinity is
"Do not say "trinity" stop for your own good."
We know over the years there have been different from of trinity such as Modalism, Arianism, Tritheism and all different kinds, just name it.
To know how bad it is, Tertullian the first to use the term would even have been an heretic as it is later defined by the nicene-constantinopolitan creed. What Qur'an is doing is condemning every form of trinity, even if you wish to add your own form (Father, Mary and Son) that you are trying very hard to impose on the Qur'an.

Projecting your own insecurity on me.


What is the Trinity = the Father the son the Holy spirit that has been the christains doctrine.

Now came along Allah and he said trinity is = Jesus Msry and Allah what a confused clueless entity that has no idea of what trinity is , are you catching the drift?

Christianity does not care if you disagree but atleast disagree what it believes by saying what it is


You said Christians venerate Mary? Very good , now let me ask is veneration worship? Is it shirk?

Now Muslim when they do Tshahada are they praying to or for Muhammad ? Is that shirk?

If you reply me you will dig yourself deep in exposing Islam.


Now back to the topic What is the Trinity? Christains in the house what is trinity? The Father son and the Holy spirit? Or Jesus Mary and Allah?


Hope you all can see the lies

honesttalk21:
This is a case of misunderstanding due to misinterpretation of the text, rather than implying that Allah is clueless. The Qur'an does not define the Trinity as Jesus, Mary, and God or anything other according to Christian beliefs; instead, it addresses the exaggerations and practices that placed Mary on the same level as Jesus, which were present in certain groups historically. Disagreeing with Christian theology does not indicate a lack of understanding, and misrepresenting that disagreement does not serve as evidence.

Present where Allah categorically states trinity as God Jesus and Mary. If you could credibly do you would have long before.

Christain theology is solid as ever

I can't say such for Islamic Allah and Muhammed

Are you saying Allah didn't say that trinity is Jesus Mary and Allah? Or you want me to show you? If I show you that Allah said the trinity is Jesus Mary and Allah will you see that he is clueless and he is wrong and a blaspheme? And you will renounce Islam?


Shall we

kaybeejnr:
Please share your thoughts and lets learn from one another. What are your own reasons? What are the things that turn you off about Islam?
Lets share and educate one another in a matured way please. Thank you.

Accepting Islam is not about abandoning reason, culture, or dignity. It is about aligning yourself with clarity, purpose, and truth.

First, Islam offers the clearest concept of God; One God. Absolute, eternal, unique, and independent. Not part human, not born, not dying, not divided. This simplicity is not a weakness; it is a strength. It resolves centuries of theological confusion by affirming that the Creator is distinct from creation, beyond human limitations, yet close enough to hear every sincere prayer. This idea resonates naturally with the human mind and conscience.

Second, Islam respects human intelligence. It does not ask you to suspend reason to believe. The Qur’an repeatedly challenges people to think, reflect, question, and observe the world. It appeals to logic, history, and morality. Blind faith is never praised; thoughtful conviction is. Islam acknowledges doubt as a stage, not a sin, and invites inquiry rather than fear of questions.

Third, Islam provides a complete moral framework that is practical, balanced, and realistic. It recognizes human weakness without glorifying it, and human discipline without crushing the soul. Justice, mercy, accountability, compassion, self-control, charity, and humility are not abstract ideals, they are daily practices. Islam does not reduce morality to personal opinion or social trends; it grounds ethics in divine wisdom, stable across time and cultures.

Fourth, Islam gives life meaning beyond material success. Wealth, status, race, nationality, and gender do not define your worth. Your value lies in your character and consciousness of God. Islam answers the deepest questions: Why am I here? Why does suffering exist? What happens after death? It teaches that life is a test, pain is not pointless, and justice is not limited to this world.

Fifth, Islam restores personal responsibility. No inherited sin. No one carries the burden of another. You are accountable for your choices, but you are also never locked out of forgiveness. Repentance is direct, no intermediaries, no rituals of humiliation. Turn back sincerely, and God forgives. This balance between accountability and mercy is rare and powerful.

Finally, Islam is not about becoming Arab, rejecting your culture, or losing your individuality. It is about submitting to truth while remaining human. Across history, Islam has united diverse civilizations under shared principles without erasing their identities.

If your hesitation is based on politics, media stereotypes, or the behavior of some Muslims, then be fair: judge Islam by its[b] sources[/b], not its misuse. Every ideology has followers who betray its ideals.

Islam does not force itself on anyone. It simply invites you to consider: If God exists, if truth matters, and if accountability is real. Then does Islam not deserve a sincere, honest look?

Unfortunately, the whole of Islam is based on LIES and FALSEHOOD: everything!!

Taoheed is the most evil description of God who created everything.

The problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.




Quran 19:71-72
- And there is none of you except he enter it (Hell) ; it was upon your Lord a decided matter.
-Then We will deliver those who were fearing, and We will leave the wrongdoers in it crouching.

Quran 46:9
Tell them: “I am not the first of the Messengers; and I do not know what shall be done with me or with you . I follow only what is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.”

BUT, you won't ask Questions because the truth doesn't matter to you.

BlackfireX:
Christain theology is solid as ever

I can't say such for Islamic Allah and Muhammed

Are you saying Allah didn't say that trinity is Jesus Mary and Allah? Or you want me to show you? If I show you that Allah said the trinity is Jesus Mary and Allah will you see that he is clueless and he is wrong and a blaspheme? And you will renounce Islam?


Shall we

In all this irrelevance you don't show where Allah in the Quran defines the trinity as you claim as God, Jesus and Mary. The credibility of your statements is at stake here.

honesttalk21:
In all this irrelevance you don't show where Allah in the Quran defines the trinity as you claim as God, Jesus and Mary. The credibility of your statements is at stake here.

Since you asked, let me show you the ignorance of the one who authored the Qur'an


Quran 5:73:
"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God. If they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

1. Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three?

If you cannot find one denomination, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands Trinity

Quran 5:116:
Allah questions Jesus directly: "Did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" This addresses a perceived trinitarian inclusion of Mary alongside Allah and Jesus.


2. Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God.

A reference will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe


The author of the Qur'an seems totally ignorant of what Christians teach as Trinity.



Quran 4:171:
People of the Book, do not go to extremes in your religion or say anything about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, His Word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say "Three." Stop that—it is better for you. Allah is but One God. He is far above having a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and earth, and Allah alone suffices as your guardian

The author of the Qur'an after stating the Trinity of Jesus as a Spirit from Allah, the Word of Allah and a Messenger of Allah DENIED Trinity in the same verse.

3. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians?

4. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

References will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe.


As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!

honesttalk21:
In all this irrelevance you don't show where Allah in the Quran defines the trinity as you claim as God, Jesus and Mary. The credibility of your statements is at stake here.

ok Habibi lets start from here and confirm it

my point is that Allah said trinity is Jesus Mary and Alalh... which shows his cluelessness and les and blasphemy

" (Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:73):
​"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God..."

So here we can all see that Allah says he is 3rd of trinity which is absurd nobody calls Allah as part of trinity or neither do we believe that trinity is divided into 1/3 you see the cluelessness of the writer of the Quran.

So confirm this before I bring the other 2 1/3

And nope you won't be blind to this or you are embarrassed by an Almighty islamic Allah confused about trinity

BlackfireX:
Projecting your own insecurity on me.


What is the Trinity = the Father the son the Holy spirit that has been the christains doctrine.

Now came along Allah and he said trinity is = Jesus Msry and Allah what a confused clueless entity that has no idea of what trinity is , are you catching the drift?

Christianity does not care if you disagree but atleast disagree what it believes by saying what it is


You said Christians venerate Mary? Very good , now let me ask is veneration worship? Is it shirk?

Now Muslim when they do Tshahada are they praying to or for Muhammad ? Is that shirk?

If you reply me you will dig yourself deep in exposing Islam.


Now back to the topic What is the Trinity? Christains in the house what is trinity? The Father son and the Holy spirit? Or Jesus Mary and Allah?


Hope you all can see the lies

Yeye
In all of these, you have not quoted the verse that defines trinity as Allah, Mary and Jesus.
It's been lots of chochocho with no workings.

If veneration is just to show honour, respect, love then it is not in anyway shrik, but if you've started giving divine qualities to created beings like praying to them then it is shrik.

Muslims pray to Prophet Muhammad in Tashahhud? Seriously?

​"All compliments, prayers, and pure actions are due to Allah. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings. Peace be upon us and on the righteous servants of Allah. I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."

Which part of this is praying to the prophet?

Qasim6:
Yeye
In all of these, you have not quoted the verse that defines trinity as Allah, Mary and Jesus.
It's been lots of chochocho with no workings.

If veneration is just to show honour, respect, love then it is not in anyway shrik, but if you've started giving divine qualities to created beings like praying to them then it is shrik.

Muslims pray to Prophet Muhammad in Tashahhud? Seriously?

​"All compliments, prayers, and pure actions are due to Allah. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings. Peace be upon us and on the righteous servants of Allah. I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."

Which part of this is praying to the prophet?

You mean you have been reciting the Tashahud five times a day and you don't recognise that it is a prayer to both Allah and your prophet!?


Here is it: I will highlight the part where you speak to Mohammed himself in the prayer


As-salamu alayka ayyuha-n-nabiyyu wa rahmatu-llahi wa barakatuhu
Peace be upon you, O Prophet , and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

The Question is:
Is the prophet with you for you to say "Peace be upon YOU"?
Secondly, since all over the world, you repeat this same prayer, it means Mohammed from his grave hears you.




Before your upcoming baseless argument, note that Arabic Language is so rich that you could have said

"Peace be upon our prophet " as As-salamu ʿalā nabiyyinā
OR
"Peace be upon the prophet" as As-salamu ʿalā an-nabiyy

thus, it would be clear that this is a prayer to Allah and not a direct reference to Mohammed as he is NOT present with you.



Or is Mohammed present with you Muslims when you pray?


Sorry, Mohammed is the assistant Allah. This is why you Muslims associate both the Name of Allah and the knowledge of Allah with that of Mohammed.

BlackfireX:
ok Habibi lets start from here and confirm it

my point is that Allah said trinity is Jesus Mary and Alalh... which shows his cluelessness and les and blasphemy

" (Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:73):
​"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God..."

So here we can all see that Allah says he is 3rd of trinity which is absurd nobody calls Allah as part of trinity or neither do we believe that trinity is divided into 1/3 you see the cluelessness of the writer of the Quran.

So confirm this before I bring the other 2 1/3

And nope you won't be blind to this or you are embarrassed by an Almighty islamic Allah confused about trinity

Totally wrong to say the Quran defines the Christian Trinity, you still fail to clearly show this. It just pushes back against certain ideas about God that others have said. It does not go into a full explanation of Trinitarian theology or anything structured like that.

The Surah 5:73 you quote only mentions the claim that God is third of three, and it straight up rejects that. But it does not explain the doctrine in detail or anything. It is more about saying no to anything that goes against pure monotheism.

This makes a big difference, I suppose. When the Quran quotes something, that is not the same as defining it. And rejecting a claim polemically is not building up a theology of its own. The text is dealing with statements about God that it sees as wrong, not trying to figure out how Christians make sense of plurality and unity philosophically.

Reading the rejection as some kind of definition of the Trinity seems like mixing up categories completely. It feels off.

The way the Quran talks about this is pretty straightforward, not getting into technical stuff. It is responding to what was going on back then in history, with religious claims and practices as they were. Not the later councils or deep metaphysics that came after. The goal there is just to say no to any idea of partners or divisions in God, really.

So, when you accuse the Quran of being confused about the Trinity, that does not hold up when you look at the actual words. It is not misunderstanding it. The Quran just does not bother defining it, and instead says no to the whole idea of God being multiple in any way. Totally rejecting the premise that God can be described as multiple in any sense.

TenQ:
Since you asked, let me show you the ignorance of the one who authored the Qur'an


Quran 5:73:
"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God. If they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

1. Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three?

If you cannot find one denomination, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands Trinity

Quran 5:116:
Allah questions Jesus directly: "Did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" This addresses a perceived trinitarian inclusion of Mary alongside Allah and Jesus.


2. Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God.

A reference will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe


The author of the Qur'an seems totally ignorant of what Christians teach as Trinity.



Quran 4:171:
People of the Book, do not go to extremes in your religion or say anything about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, His Word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say "Three." Stop that—it is better for you. Allah is but One God. He is far above having a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and earth, and Allah alone suffices as your guardian

The author of the Qur'an after stating the Trinity of Jesus as a Spirit from Allah, the Word of Allah and a Messenger of Allah DENIED Trinity in the same verse.

3. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians?

4. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

References will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe.


As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!

Your argument misrepresents English translations by ignoring the depth of Arabic and its historical context.

In Qur’an 5:73, the text does not attempt to define the Christian Trinity. Instead, it rejects the notion of dividing God into multiple objects of worship. The phrase “third of three” (ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ) functions as a rhetorical condemnation of plurality in divinity, not an analysis of Nicene theology.


Qur’an 5:116 focuses on certain historical groups who venerated Jesus and Mary alongside God, rather than claiming to represent all Christian beliefs. The verse condemns the act of elevating them to divine status, not whatever mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity now or previously claims to have.

In Qur’an 4:171, the text gives Jesus titles like Messiah, Word from God, and a spirit from Him. These titles honor him without asserting his divinity. The instruction Do not say Three rejects the division of God's essence, not a misinterpretation of Christian theology.

The Qur’an critiques both popular religious practices and extreme theological views, instead of targeting the Nicene creed.

Your opposing argument incorrectly equates critique with definition and selectively interprets translations, forming a strawman. When one considers the Arabic language, historical context, and the nature of theological debate, the claim that the Qur’an misrepresents the Trinity falls apart.

honesttalk21:
Your argument misrepresents English translations by ignoring the depth of Arabic and its historical context.

In Qur’an 5:73, the text does not attempt to define the Christian Trinity. Instead, it rejects the notion of dividing God into multiple objects of worship. The phrase “third of three” (ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ) functions as a rhetorical condemnation of plurality in divinity, not an analysis of Nicene theology.


Qur’an 5:116 focuses on certain historical groups who venerated Jesus and Mary alongside God, rather than claiming to represent all Christian beliefs. The verse condemns the act of elevating them to divine status, not whatever mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity now or previously claims to have.

In Qur’an 4:171, the text gives Jesus titles like Messiah, Word from God, and a spirit from Him. These titles honor him without asserting his divinity. The instruction Do not say Three rejects the division of God's essence, not a misinterpretation of Christian theology.

The Qur’an critiques both popular religious practices and extreme theological views, instead of targeting the Nicene creed.

Your opposing argument incorrectly equates critique with definition and selectively interprets translations, forming a strawman. When one considers the Arabic language, historical context, and the nature of theological debate, the claim that the Qur’an misrepresents the Trinity falls apart.

I knew you were going to deny the translation and that was why I never asked you any direct question about TRINITY . I asked you questions based on what Allah claimed in three verses.

You skipped all the questions, so can you please go back to them?

1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

2.From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?

3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS based on the verses from which I extracted the Questions

As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!





Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.

Be mindful of this logic in explaining the Qur'an and answering my questions.

TenQ:
I knew you were going to deny the translation and that was why I never asked you any direct question about TRINITY . I asked you questions based on what Allah claimed in three verses.

You skipped all the questions, so can you please go back to them?

1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

2.From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?

3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS based on the verses from which I extracted the Questions

As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!





Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.

Be mindful of this logic in explaining the Qur'an and answering my questions.

Persistently deny as is your nature but did you not step in when I asked your mentee to show the where Allah in the Quran clearly defines the trinity?

TenQ:
Since you asked, let me show you the ignorance of the one who authored the Qur'an


Quran 5:73:
"They have certainly disbelieved who say, 'Allah is the third of three.' And there is no god except one God. If they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

1. Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three?

If you cannot find one denomination, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands Trinity

Quran 5:116:
Allah questions Jesus directly: "Did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" This addresses a perceived trinitarian inclusion of Mary alongside Allah and Jesus.


2. Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God.

A reference will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe


The author of the Qur'an seems totally ignorant of what Christians teach as Trinity.



Quran 4:171:
People of the Book, do not go to extremes in your religion or say anything about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, His Word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say "Three." Stop that—it is better for you. Allah is but One God. He is far above having a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and earth, and Allah alone suffices as your guardian

The author of the Qur'an after stating the Trinity of Jesus as a Spirit from Allah, the Word of Allah and a Messenger of Allah DENIED Trinity in the same verse.

3. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians?

4. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

References will suffice otherwise, the author of the Qur'an cannot be said that he understands what Christians believe.


As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!

What were you trying to do in your selective embolding? Honestly make that make real good sense.

Where Qur’an 5:73 states, Allah is the third of three, it reflects a genuine claim made by some Christians, even if the wording differs and; you convincingly disregard the characterizing precondition that indeed they have disbelieve, Orthodox Christianity teaches that God exists as three distinct persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; each fully divine. This understanding implies that each person is considered God within a triad, even if Christians do not use that exact phrasing. The Qur’an critiques this doctrine rather than quoting a specific creed.

In Qur’an 5:116, the text mentions Jesus and Mary as gods in dialogue that Allah has with Jesus on judgement day to expressly expose the truth, but it does not assert that all Christians believe Mary is divine. Referred to by some as theotokos and linking her with divinity. Instead, it condemns certain historical groups, such as the Collyridians, who worshiped Mary, or you deny this group existed? And more generally, it criticizes any practice that elevates humans to divine status, such as intercession or prayer directed to them. This is a condemnation of specific practices rather than a misrepresentation of Nicene theology.

Regarding Qur’an 4:171, the phrase Do not say Three refers to the concept of a tri-personal God. This includes the Trinity, regardless of any philosophical distinctions. While Christians do not verbally deny the oneness of God, the conceptual framework they use one essence plus three distinct persons who are each fully God does not align with the biblical oneness described in Deuteronomy 6:4, as it is a later metaphysical interpretation.

In response to your analogy about sects, it actually supports the Islamic perspective. The Qur’an critiques specific claims and practices rather than labeling entire groups. Just as it is reasonable to critique Akhbari Shia beliefs without generalizing about all Muslims, it is valid for the Qur’an to address actual Christian doctrines and behaviors without suggesting that every Christian holds the same views. This is not a misrepresentation; it is a theological critique that addresses issues like the division of divine identity, the elevation of created beings, and the departure from prophetic monotheism. You can disagree, but it’s important to recognize that this is not a case of misrepresentation.

Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.

honesttalk21:
Persistently deny as is your nature but did you not step in when I asked your mentee to show the where Allah in the Quran clearly defines the trinity?



What were you trying to do in your selective embolding? Honestly make that make real good sense.

Where Qur’an 5:73 states, Allah is the third of three, it reflects a genuine claim made by some Christians, even if the wording differs and; you convincingly disregard the characterizing precondition that indeed they have disbelieve, Orthodox Christianity teaches that God exists as three distinct persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; each fully divine. This understanding implies that each person is considered God within a triad, even if Christians do not use that exact phrasing. The Qur’an critiques this doctrine rather than quoting a specific creed.

In Qur’an 5:116, the text mentions Jesus and Mary as gods in dialogue that Allah has with Jesus on judgement day to expressly expose the truth, but it does not assert that all Christians believe Mary is divine. Referred to by some as theotokos and linking her with divinity. Instead, it condemns certain historical groups, such as the Collyridians, who worshiped Mary, or you deny this group existed? And more generally, it criticizes any practice that elevates humans to divine status, such as intercession or prayer directed to them. This is a condemnation of specific practices rather than a misrepresentation of Nicene theology.

Regarding Qur’an 4:171, the phrase Do not say Three refers to the concept of a tri-personal God. This includes the Trinity, regardless of any philosophical distinctions. While Christians do not verbally deny the oneness of God, the conceptual framework they use one essence plus three distinct persons who are each fully God does not align with the biblical oneness described in Deuteronomy 6:4, as it is a later metaphysical interpretation.

In response to your analogy about sects, it actually supports the Islamic perspective. The Qur’an critiques specific claims and practices rather than labeling entire groups. Just as it is reasonable to critique Akhbari Shia beliefs without generalizing about all Muslims, it is valid for the Qur’an to address actual Christian doctrines and behaviors without suggesting that every Christian holds the same views. This is not a misrepresentation; it is a theological critique that addresses issues like the division of divine identity, the elevation of created beings, and the departure from prophetic monotheism. You can disagree, but it’s important to recognize that this is not a case of misrepresentation.

Muslims will never ever answer direct questions, this, I will oblige you by answering the questions without being vague.

The answers of each of the questions prove one this Author of the Qur'an has no CLUE about the teachings of the Bible and got his knowledge from hearsay.


The Answers Correct the Author of the Qur'an's gross Error and lack of Comprehension

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

Answer:
There is no single Christian group or denomination that says anywhere that God is the third of Three . What Christians say is that God is the Father, God is the Son and God is the Holy Spirit.

This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument.

Let me ask you another question:
What does Allah mean by Third of three ?





Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
Answer:
a. Christians never ever claim that Mary is God and I challenge you to show evidence to the contrary.
b. Christians say that Jesus is God not that Jesus is God besides God (a complete misnomer)


This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument. If the author of the Qur'an is this ignorant, woe beside the followers of the book.





Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

Answer:
a. The only thing closest to THREE by Christians is the Trinity
b. There is no single Christian that believes other than God is ONE


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!






The questions you avoided answering is what I have answered for you and they prove one thing.
The Author and Source of the Qur'an is at best IGNORANT of Christian Doctrine or a Deliberate LIAR. Thus, he thus has to manufacture Straw man to have something to attack.

TenQ:
Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.


Muslims will never ever answer direct questions, this, I will oblige you by answering the questions without being vague.

The answers of each of the questions prove one this Author of the Qur'an has no CLUE about the teachings of the Bible and got his knowledge from hearsay.


The Answers Correct the Author of the Qur'an's gross Error and lack of Comprehension

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

Answer:
There is no single Christian group or denomination that says anywhere that God is the third of Three . What Christians say is that God is the Father, God is the Son and God is the Holy Spirit.

This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument.

Let me ask you another question:
What does Allah mean by Third of three ?





Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
Answer:
a. Christians never ever claim that Mary is God and I challenge you to show evidence to the contrary.
b. Christians say that Jesus is God not that Jesus is God besides God (a complete misnomer)


This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument. If the author of the Qur'an is this ignorant, woe beside the followers of the book.





Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

Answer:
a. The only thing closest to THREE by Christians is the Trinity
b. There is no single Christian that believes other than God is ONE


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!






The questions you avoided answering is what I have answered for you and they prove one thing.
The Author and Source of the Qur'an is at best IGNORANT of Christian Doctrine or a Deliberate LIAR. Thus, he thus has to manufacture Straw man to have something to attack.

Rephrase in whichever manner to restate issues already answered however you wish. I will not accommodate any of that or allow diversion away from the core.

The Qur’an doesn’t misrepresent the Trinity; instead, it outright rejects the whole idea of divine plurality. Calling that clueless mixes up a denial of theology with a simple misunderstanding. Define the trinity if you really want to show how the Quran hasn't addressed it!

honesttalk21:
Rephrase in whichever manner to restate issues already answered however you wish. I will not accommodate any of that or allow diversion away from the core.

Three verses and each was an ERROR!?
It can only be the Qur'an! LOL!!


You are not happy because I pulled up the gross ignorance of the author of the Qur'an!? He definitely doesn't understand what Christians believe and he can at best be said to rely on hearsay from ignorant Arabs of the 7th century.

Islam cannot withstand Scrutiny, it always fall and scatter like a pack of cards in a whirlwind

Sorry, I can't help it as God is the Truth and any falsehood must definitely bow to finite Creature who align with the Truth.



Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!

BlackfireX
It seems being dishonest is a package that comes in hand with being trinitarian. U misrepresent everything I said and you are debunking lies you made up in your head. Is everything ok at home? U need to stop chasing shadows.

This is what I said concerning Mary " they venerate and pray to her" did u miss the 'pray to her' part?
If you ask Christians that pray to Mary why they do, their response is always "veneration not worship" but when veneration has reached the point of giving divine qualities to created beings do you not consider that problematic? Maybe you are part of the Christians that pray to Mary?

And what do you mean by you look like a regular Christian? No boy, you are as empty as they come.

And stop referencing weak hadith, we know you guys don't care about chains of narration but we do over here.

TenQ:
You mean you have been reciting the Tashahud five times a day and you don't recognise that it is a prayer to both Allah and your prophet!?


Here is it: I will highlight the part where you speak to Mohammed himself in the prayer


As-salamu alayka ayyuha-n-nabiyyu wa rahmatu-llahi wa barakatuhu
Peace be upon you, O Prophet , and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

The Question is:
Is the prophet with you for you to say "Peace be upon YOU"?
Secondly, since all over the world, you repeat this same prayer, it means Mohammed from his grave hears you.




Before your upcoming baseless argument, note that Arabic Language is so rich that you could have said

"Peace be upon our prophet " as As-salamu ʿalā nabiyyinā
OR
"Peace be upon the prophet" as As-salamu ʿalā an-nabiyy

thus, it would be clear that this is a prayer to Allah and not a direct reference to Mohammed as he is NOT present with you.



Or is Mohammed present with you Muslims when you pray?


Sorry, Mohammed is the assistant Allah. This is why you Muslims associate both the Name of Allah and the knowledge of Allah with that of Mohammed.

Maybe you are not aware, we don't believe the prophet is all hearing in such a way that he would hear all our salawat directly.

The Prophet is reported to have said:
​"Indeed, Allah has angels who travel around the earth, conveying to me the Salaam of my Ummah."

In another authentic hadith:
"Your blessings will be conveyed to me." When asked how this is possible after death, he explained that Allah has forbidden the earth from consuming the bodies of the Prophets."

This implies the Prophet does not have the attributes of all hearing where he would hear every voice in the world like a god or something but relies on angels sent by Allah to bring the blessings to him.

Now compare that to this elaborate prayer offer to Mary

O Mary, you shine continuously on our journey as a sign of salvation and hope.
We entrust ourselves to you, Health of the Sick.
At the foot of the Cross you participated in Jesus’ pain, with steadfast faith. You, Salvation of the Roman People, know what we need.
We are certain that you will provide, so that,
as you did at Cana of Galilee, joy and feasting might return after this moment of trial.
Help us, Mother of Divine Love,
to conform ourselves to the Father’s will
and to do what Jesus tells us:
He who took our sufferings upon Himself, and bore our sorrows to bring us through the Cross, to the joy of the Resurrection. Amen.

We seek refuge under your protection, O Holy Mother of God. Do not despise our pleas – we who are put to the test – and deliver us from every danger, O glorious and blessed Virgin.

Is this comparable to sending salawat to the Prophet? Or what exactly are you talking about?

TenQ:
Three verses and each was an ERROR!?
It can only be the Qur'an! LOL!!


You are not happy because I pulled up the gross ignorance of the author of the Qur'an!? He definitely doesn't understand what Christians believe and he can at best be said to rely on hearsay from ignorant Arabs of the 7th century.

Islam cannot withstand Scrutiny, it always fall and scatter like a pack of cards in a whirlwind

Sorry, I can't help it as God is the Truth and any falsehood must definitely bow to finite Creature who align with the Truth.



Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!

Happy that you continue to show your ignorance and incapacity to comprehend?

I put a closure which you deliberately ignore or feign blind to. Address it even for just your person good and use.

honesttalk21:
Happy that you continue to show your ignorance and incapacity to comprehend?

I put a closure which you deliberately ignore or feign blind to. Address it even for just your person good and use.

The problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.

TenQ:
Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

Answer:
There is no single Christian group or denomination that says anywhere that God is the third of Three . What Christians say is that God is the Father, God is the Son and God is the Holy Spirit.

This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument.

Let me ask you another question:
What does Allah mean by Third of three ?

What exactly do you mean by no Christian group believe God is the third of 3 when that's exactly what you Trinitarians believe

There are several places in the NT where Jesus identifies Father as his God, And according to the trinity the Father is not the Son and the son is not the Father.

We know you guys worship 3 gods so you can just quit this hide and seek. because I don't understand if the Father is God, the son is God and the spirit is God and they are not each other that is solid three Gods. You will have to explain to us how that is not 3 Gods before you start accusing Allah of not knowing your doctrine.

TenQ:
The problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.

Keep pushing your mischievous misinterpretation which is not your misunderstanding as truth as you continually lie.

TenQ:
Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.


Muslims will never ever answer direct questions, this, I will oblige you by answering the questions without being vague.

The answers of each of the questions prove one this Author of the Qur'an has no CLUE about the teachings of the Bible and got his knowledge from hearsay.


The Answers Correct the Author of the Qur'an's gross Error and lack of Comprehension

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

Answer:
There is no single Christian group or denomination that says anywhere that God is the third of Three . What Christians say is that God is the Father, God is the Son and God is the Holy Spirit.

This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument.

Let me ask you another question:
What does Allah mean by Third of three ?





Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
Answer:
a. Christians never ever claim that Mary is God and I challenge you to show evidence to the contrary.
b. Christians say that Jesus is God not that Jesus is God besides God (a complete misnomer)


This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument. If the author of the Qur'an is this ignorant, woe beside the followers of the book.





Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

Answer:
a. The only thing closest to THREE by Christians is the Trinity
b. There is no single Christian that believes other than God is ONE


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!



The questions you avoided answering is what I have answered for you and they prove one thing.
The Author and Source of the Qur'an is at best IGNORANT of Christian Doctrine or a Deliberate LIAR. Thus, he thus has to manufacture Straw man to have something to attack.

Whatever simulation that has you answer for another like you now have powers to know exactly how another thinks and responds is nothing other than chronic insanity!.

Your analogy regarding the Akhbari perspective is valid and actually weakens your argument. The Qur'an, similar to the Bible, critiques beliefs as they are understood, practiced, and logically derived, rather than just addressing refined theological statements. For instance, Q 5:73 (third of three) challenges the implications of the Trinity. If the Father, Son, and Spirit are all fully God, then that implies there are three distinct Gods, regardless of how Christians prefer to phrase it. The Qur'an is addressing the nature of being, not merely quoting a doctrine.

Furthermore, Q 5:116 does not claim that all Christians worship Mary; it condemns the practice of elevating humans to divine roles, such as in prayer, intercession, or divine titles, which has historically occurred and continues to exist. Referring to Jesus as God beside God is a valid critique, suggesting the existence of a second divine figure alongside the Father. Q 4:171 (do not say three) clearly rejects the idea of a tri-personal God. While saying God is one essence is true, it does not negate the Christian teaching of three distinct divine persons, a concept that was not taught by any prophet prior to Jesus or even Jesus himself.

In conclusion, this is not a matter of ignorance or hearsay; it is a significant rejection of the metaphysical views that developed after the biblical texts. You may disagree with the critique, but labeling it as a straw man is flawed both logically and historically.

Qasim6:
Maybe you are not aware, we don't believe the prophet is all hearing in such a way that he would hear all our salawat directly.

The Prophet is reported to have said:
​"Indeed, Allah has angels who travel around the earth, conveying to me the Salaam of my Ummah."

In another authentic hadith:
"Your blessings will be conveyed to me." When asked how this is possible after death, he explained that Allah has forbidden the earth from consuming the bodies of the Prophets."

This implies the Prophet does not have the attributes of all hearing where he would hear every voice in the world like a god or something but relies on angels sent by Allah to bring the blessings to him.

If your prophet cannot hear you because he is dead and in his grave (not even yet in paradise), why do you direct part of the Tashahud to him.

Are you praying to the corpse of Mohammed?

As-salamu alayka ayyuha-n-nabiyyu wa rahmatu-llahi wa barakatuhu
Peace be upon you, O Prophet , and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

The Question is:
Is the prophet with you for you to say "Peace be upon YOU"?
Secondly, since all over the world, you repeat this same prayer, it means Mohammed from his grave hears you.

The argument of angels carrying the prayers to Mohammed doesn't hold as angels also carry your prayers to Allah

Qasim6:
Now compare that to this elaborate prayer offer to Mary

O Mary, you shine continuously on our journey as a sign of salvation and hope.
We entrust ourselves to you, Health of the Sick.
At the foot of the Cross you participated in Jesus’ pain, with steadfast faith. You, Salvation of the Roman People, know what we need.
We are certain that you will provide, so that,
as you did at Cana of Galilee, joy and feasting might return after this moment of trial.
Help us, Mother of Divine Love,
to conform ourselves to the Father’s will
and to do what Jesus tells us:
He who took our sufferings upon Himself, and bore our sorrows to bring us through the Cross, to the joy of the Resurrection. Amen.

We seek refuge under your protection, O Holy Mother of God. Do not despise our pleas – we who are put to the test – and deliver us from every danger, O glorious and blessed Virgin.

Is this comparable to sending salawat to the Prophet? Or what exactly are you talking about?

So lame an argument.
1. If others pray to human beings does it in any way justify why Muslims following Islam would pray to Mohammed as they do to Allah?
2. All Muslims without exception pray to Mohammed through the Tashahud isn't it? Do all who claim to be Christians pray to Mary?
Your argument is like me claiming that Muslims practice Mutah just as you have said that Christians pray to Mary.!


Sorry, as long as you Muslims without exception pray to Mohammed through the Tashahud and you associate both the knowledge and name of Allah with Mohammed , you have no case.


It is no wonder that Allah and his Angels also pray upon Mohammed. So, what is strange in you Muslims also praying to Mohammed

Qur'an 33:56
"Indeed, Allah and His angels PRAYS (yusallūna) upon the Prophet..."

Quran 33:43
He (Allah) is the One who PRAYS ("yusallūna" (يُصَلُّونَ)) upon you, and His angels [also], that He may bring you out from the darknesses into the light. And He is ever Merciful to the believers.



So, tell me, what can be worse than the whole of existence including Allah praying upon one man called Mohammed?

Qasim6:
What exactly do you mean by no Christian group believe God is the third of 3 when that's exactly what you Trinitarians believe

There are several places in the NT where Jesus identifies Father as his God, And according to the trinity the Father is not the Son and the son is not the Father.

We know you guys worship 3 gods so you can just quit this hide and seek. because I don't understand if the Father is God, the son is God and the spirit is God and they are not each other that is solid three Gods. You will have to explain to us how that is not 3 Gods before you start accusing Allah of not knowing your doctrine.

Your straw man highlighted as without it, you have no argument. I can understand if you don't understand Trinity however, I find it amusing that Allah himself is worse off than you in understanding of Trinity! LOL

I have highlighted the errors of the verses to you without even asking about trinity as lies will come out of you as expected of true Muslims.

The grand truth is that Allah was definitely misinformed about what Christians believe. None of what he stated in the verses is what Christians believe. The truth is bitter and you can thrash about as much as you like as it changes nothing

honesttalk21:
Whatever simulation that has you answer for another like you now have powers to know exactly how another thinks and responds is nothing other than chronic insanity!.

Your analogy regarding the Akhbari perspective is valid and actually weakens your argument. The Qur'an, similar to the Bible, critiques beliefs as they are understood, practiced, and logically derived, rather than just addressing refined theological statements. For instance, Q 5:73 (third of three) challenges the implications of the Trinity. If the Father, Son, and Spirit are all fully God, then that implies there are three distinct Gods, regardless of how Christians prefer to phrase it. The Qur'an is addressing the nature of being, not merely quoting a doctrine.

A knowledgeable person will say
"The Akhbaris believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted"
An Ignorant person will say
"The Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted"

The author of the Qur'an should know better as he FAILED to give us the Identity of the Christian group he speaks about.

It's an undefendable shame.

honesttalk21:
Furthermore, Q 5:116 does not claim that all Christians worship Mary; it condemns the practice of elevating humans to divine roles, such as in prayer, intercession, or divine titles, which has historically occurred and continues to exist. Referring to Jesus as God beside God is a valid critique, suggesting the existence of a second divine figure alongside the Father. Q 4:171 (do not say three) clearly rejects the idea of a tri-personal God. While saying God is one essence is true, it does not negate the Christian teaching of three distinct divine persons, a concept that was not taught by any prophet prior to Jesus or even Jesus himself.

In conclusion, this is not a matter of ignorance or hearsay; it is a significant rejection of the metaphysical views that developed after the biblical texts. You may disagree with the critique, but labeling it as a straw man is flawed both logically and historically.

1. I want to believe that Allah speaks perfect Arabic and he is extremely knowledgeable to know that he can say "some Christians" rather than "Christians" when he meant a subset of Christians in Qur'an 5:116

How do you know that Allah does not claim that all Christians worship Mary but some of the Christians?



2. So, you now admit that Allah was speaking about Trinity when he said THREE in Qur'an 4:171 or Quran 5:73!?

Remember where we started!

honesttalk21:
In all this irrelevance you don't show where Allah in the Quran defines the trinity as you claim as God, Jesus and Mary. The credibility of your statements is at stake here.

See how we can force the truth out of your mouth without being direct with appropriate questions.

TenQ:
If your prophet cannot hear you because he is dead and in his grave (not even yet in paradise), why do you direct part of the Tashahud to him.

Are you praying to the corpse of Mohammed?

As-salamu alayka ayyuha-n-nabiyyu wa rahmatu-llahi wa barakatuhu
Peace be upon you, O Prophet , and the mercy of Allah and His blessings.

The Question is:
Is the prophet with you for you to say "Peace be upon YOU"?
Secondly, since all over the world, you repeat this same prayer, it means Mohammed from his grave hears you.

The argument of angels carrying the prayers to Mohammed doesn't hold as angels also carry your prayers to Allah



So lame an argument.
1. If others pray to human beings does it in any way justify why Muslims following Islam would pray to Mohammed as they do to Allah?
2. All Muslims without exception pray to Mohammed through the Tashahud isn't it? Do all who claim to be Christians pray to Mary?
Your argument is like me claiming that Muslims practice Mutah just as you have said that Christians pray to Mary.!


Sorry, as long as you Muslims without exception pray to Mohammed through the Tashahud and you associate both the knowledge and name of Allah with Mohammed , you have no case.


It is no wonder that Allah and his Angels also pray upon Mohammed. So, what is strange in you Muslims also praying to Mohammed

Qur'an 33:56
"Indeed, Allah and His angels PRAYS (yusallūna) upon the Prophet..."

Quran 33:43
He (Allah) is the One who PRAYS ("yusallūna" (يُصَلُّونَ)) upon you, and His angels [also], that He may bring you out from the darknesses into the light. And He is ever Merciful to the believers.



So, tell me, what can be worse than the whole of existence including Allah praying upon one man called Mohammed?

U are probably not paying attention, you need to learn how to track argument so you won't go off track.
The prophet himself told us how the salawat reach him, so you can romance the "peace be upon you" all you want, no Muslims believe the prophet hear us directly. And we don't believe Angels carry our prayers to Allah. Lol!

And please stop repeating the argument Allah pray to Muhammad it's old and stale at this point.