₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Your straw man highlighted as without it, you have no argument. I can understand if you don't understand Trinity however, I find it amusing that Allah himself is worse off than you in understanding of Trinity! LOL

I have highlighted the errors of the verses to you without even asking about trinity as lies will come out of you as expected of true Muslims.

The grand truth is that Allah was definitely misinformed about what Christians believe. None of what he stated in the verses is what Christians believe. The truth is bitter and you can thrash about as much as you like as it changes nothing

Lol! I trust you Trinitarians to run away from explaining how your God is not 3
You are very loud mouthed about how Allah is ignorant of your man made doctrine but to explain how your God is not 3 now becomes a problem. You know if you attempt ur ass will be exposed badly.

Trust me there is nothing to understand in a false doctrine like trinity. It is just polytheism forcefully clothed in the garment of monotheism.

At some point you will have to face the truth and accept that you guys worship 3 gods
You believe the Father(Jesus's God), Jesus himself, and Holy spirit are all Gods
How is that not a belief that Jesus's God is 3rd of a three?

TenQ:
A knowledgeable person will say
"The Akhbaris believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted"
An Ignorant person will say
"The Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted"

The author of the Qur'an should know better as he FAILED to give us the Identity of the Christian group he speaks about.

It's an undefendable shame.




1. I want to believe that Allah speaks perfect Arabic and he is extremely knowledgeable to know that he can say "some Christians" rather than "Christians" when he meant a subset of Christians in Qur'an 5:116

How do you know that Allah does not claim that all Christians worship Mary but some of the Christians?



2. So, you now admit that Allah was speaking about Trinity when he said THREE in Qur'an 4:171 or Quran 5:73!?

Remember where we started!


See how we can force the truth out of your mouth without being direct with appropriate questions.

No matter how many times you state, your analogy regarding the Akhbari perspective is flawed because the Qur’an is not simply a human document categorizing different sects; it addresses issues in a normative and polemical manner, similar to the Bible, which references groups like the Jews and “the Christians without acknowledging every minority amongst them. The lack of the word some does not mean all and that is a linguistic error, not a problem with the text itself. Regarding Q 5:116, this verse serves as a rhetorical condemnation rather than a demographic survey. It criticizes any Christian practice that places Jesus or Mary in divine positions, a practice that has historically existed and continues to function today in such forms as in prayer and intercession. Your assertion that Allah refers to all Christians is your interpretation, not what the text states. In reference to Q 4:171 and Q 5:73, the term three indeed pertains to the concept of the Trinity. The Qur’an rejects this idea without using the specific terminology, as it critiques the concept rather than validating the label. Not reflecting Christian self-definitions is not a sign of ignorance; it is a theological rejection. You did not uncover a new truth; rather, you acknowledged that the Qur’an adequately addresses the Trinity, which is precisely what Muslims have maintained from the beginning.

Qasim6:
U are probably not paying attention, you need to learn how to track argument so you won't go off track.
The prophet himself told us how the salawat reach him, so you can romance the "peace be upon you" all you want, no Muslims believe the prophet hear us directly. And we don't believe Angels carry our prayers to Allah. Lol!

And please stop repeating the argument Allah pray to Muhammad it's old and stale at this point.

Salawat reach your prophet the same way as salawat reach Allah!


It seems you don't know that

Qasim6:
Lol! I trust you Trinitarians to run away from explaining how your God is not 3
You are very loud mouthed about how Allah is ignorant of your man made doctrine but to explain how your God is not 3 now becomes a problem. You know if you attempt ur ass will be exposed badly.

Trust me there is nothing to understand in a false doctrine like trinity. It is just polytheism forcefully clothed in the garment of monotheism.

At some point you will have to face the truth and accept that you guys worship 3 gods
You believe the Father(Jesus's God), Jesus himself, and Holy spirit are all Gods
How is that not a belief that Jesus's God is 3rd of a three?

All I did was to expose the lies Allah told in three verses and nowhere did I explain the Trinity to you.
If Allah doesn't even understand the Christian doctrine, how can I expect you to understand anything of the Trinity.

Can you explain by answering these questions that seem to show that Allah doesn't understand what he is speaking about?

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?


Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?

Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?


Over to you

honesttalk21:
No matter how many times you state, your analogy regarding the Akhbari perspective is flawed because the Qur’an is not simply a human document categorizing different sects; it addresses issues in a normative and polemical manner, similar to the Bible, which references groups like the Jews and “the Christians without acknowledging every minority amongst them. The lack of the word some does not mean all and that is a linguistic error, not a problem with the text itself. Regarding Q 5:116, this verse serves as a rhetorical condemnation rather than a demographic survey. It criticizes any Christian practice that places Jesus or Mary in divine positions, a practice that has historically existed and continues to function today in such forms as in prayer and intercession. Your assertion that Allah refers to all Christians is your interpretation, not what the text states. In reference to Q 4:171 and Q 5:73, the term three indeed pertains to the concept of the Trinity. The Qur’an rejects this idea without using the specific terminology, as it critiques the concept rather than validating the label. Not reflecting Christian self-definitions is not a sign of ignorance; it is a theological rejection. You did not uncover a new truth; rather, you acknowledged that the Qur’an adequately addresses the Trinity, which is precisely what Muslims have maintained from the beginning.

Using your argument

Since the Akhbaris are Muslims, then it is suffice to say that Muslims agree that their Qur'an is corrupted.
AND
Since the Shia are Muslims, then it is suffice to say that Muslims agree that it is lawful for them to do Mutah (halal prostitution).

This is how you think Allah reason!
Congratulations!

Qasim6:
The only thing you have been exposing is ur ass

When you hold these beliefs
Father(Jesus's God) is God, Jesus is God, Holy spirit is God
Jesus is not the father, Jesus is not the holy spirit and the holy spirit is not the father
The only logical conclusion is there are 3 Gods and Jesus's God is 3rd of a three.

If that is not your conclusion, then you will have to explain to us how you reach another conclusion. If you can't, just tell us u can't and play the mystery card, don't waste my time.

If you are praying to a created being like the one I shared with you earlier, you are indirectly taking them as god besides God, I don't know you still need explanation regarding that or what's your own honest opinion about the Christians that pray to Mary?

My questions to you were very simple and answering it exposes the truth.
It's just three questions please



Can you explain by answering these questions that seem to show that Allah doesn't understand what he is speaking about?

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?


Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?

Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?


As usual, I can trust that you will go at tangent to avoid answering the direct questions.


WHY?


Because the problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in Mohammed with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.

TenQ:
Using your argument

Since the Akhbaris are Muslims, then it is suffice to say that Muslims agree that their Qur'an is corrupted.
AND
Since the Shia are Muslims, then it is suffice to say that Muslims agree that it is lawful for them to do Mutah (halal prostitution).

This is how you think Allah reason!
Congratulations!

No, that’s precisely the mistake you’re making, not the Qur’an. Islam, similar to Christianity, differentiates between the core teachings of the religion and the claims of certain groups. The beliefs of Akhbaris or some Shia factions do not represent the entirety of Islam, just as fringe Christian sects do not define Christianity. The Qur’an addresses specific doctrines and practices rather than identities based on association. Your argument is a composition fallacy, and attributing it to Allah doesn’t make it correct.

honesttalk21:
No, that’s precisely the mistake you’re making, not the Qur’an. Islam, similar to Christianity, differentiates between the core teachings of the religion and the claims of certain groups. The beliefs of Akhbaris or some Shia factions do not represent the entirety of Islam, just as fringe Christian sects do not define Christianity. The Qur’an addresses specific doctrines and practices rather than identities based on association. Your argument is a composition fallacy, and attributing it to Allah doesn’t make it correct.

Good! Meaning that Allah used the wrong words to say what you think he wants to say OR these are strawman statements from Allah.

So, just as you wouldn't want me to generalize fringe Muslim sects such as the Shia wrt Mutah and Akhbaris wrt corruption of the Qur'an to represent Muslims and Islam, it is only right for you not to think that those verses refer to Christians.
WHY?
*Even though no Christian sect hold the Qur'an position, we can still ask the following questions*
1. Does the Majority of Christians take Mary as god besides God?
2. Does the majority of Christians say God is the third of Three?
3. Does the majority of Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
4. Does the majority of Christians deny that God is ONE?


The question then is, who is Allah referring to in the three verses here? What is/are the names of the sects as certainly these are not what Christians believe.

Without proper identification, the Qur'an is at best an incomplete narrative

TenQ:
Good! Meaning that Allah used the wrong words to say what you think he wants to say OR these are strawman statements from Allah.

So, just as you wouldn't want me to generalize fringe Muslim sects such as the Shia wrt Mutah and Akhbaris wrt corruption of the Qur'an to represent Muslims and Islam, it is only right for you not to think that those verses refer to Christians.
WHY?
*Even though no Christian sect hold the Qur'an position, we can still ask the following questions*
1. Does the Majority of Christians take Mary as god besides God?
2. Does the majority of Christians say God is the third of Three?
3. Does the majority of Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
4. Does the majority of Christians deny that God is ONE?


The question then is, who is Allah referring to in the three verses here? What is/are the names of the sects as certainly these are not what Christians believe.

Without proper identification, the Qur'an is at best an incomplete narrative

This objection misses the mark in terms of methodology rather than wording. The Qur'an does not claim to represent the views of the majority of Christians, nor does it need to reference specific sects to make a valid critique. It focuses on theological assertions, their implications, and practices, rather than on how different denominations describe themselves. Requiring majority opinions or formal sect names is a contemporary apologetic standard that has been wrongly applied to a 7th-century Semitic text that is polemical in nature.

Your comparison to Shia or Akhbari beliefs is flawed as the Qur'an does not treat fringe theology as mainstream orthodoxy; it challenges claims about God, regardless of how widely accepted or formally recognized they may be. In prophetic discourse, truth and falsehood are not determined by majority consensus.

Regarding your numbered questions, points 1 to 4 are not relevant. The Qur'an's objection is not that Christians verbally deny the oneness of God, but rather that concepts like the Trinity, divine sonship, and shared divinity contradict that oneness at a conceptual level. One can assert that God is one while still violating the principle of absolute monotheism.

As for the identity of Allah in this context, it refers to anyone who attributes divinity, partners, persons, or divine mediation alongside God whether through doctrine, worship, or implication. Identifying specific sects is unnecessary because the focus is on the idea itself, not the label.

Describing this as an incomplete narrative misinterprets the genre of the text. The Qur'an is not an ethnographic study of Christian sects; it is a theological refutation. The perceived incompleteness lies not within the Qur'an but in an argument that confuses prophetic critique with a demographic survey.

To appropriately effect your arguments respond if indeed you don't ignore not to expose your lies and hypocrisy:

TenQ:
Note: Do you agree that
It will be incorrect for me to say that Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete. However, I will be correct to say that the Akhbari school of Shia Muslims believe that the extant Qur'an is corrupted and incomplete.


Muslims will never ever answer direct questions, this, I will oblige you by answering the questions without being vague.

The answers of each of the questions prove one this Author of the Qur'an has no CLUE about the teachings of the Bible and got his knowledge from hearsay.


The Answers Correct the Author of the Qur'an's gross Error and lack of Comprehension

Question 1. From Quran 5:73
Can you please show that Christians say God is the third of Three? Is it TRUE that Christians say God is the third of Three?

Answer:
There is no single Christian group or denomination that says anywhere that God is the third of Three . What Christians say is that God is the Father, God is the Son and God is the Holy Spirit.

This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument.

Let me ask you another question:
What does Allah mean by Third of three ?





Question 2. From Qur'an 5:116
Can you please show that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?. Is it TRUE that Christians say Jesus and Mary are gods beside God?
Answer:
a. Christians never ever claim that Mary is God and I challenge you to show evidence to the contrary.
b. Christians say that Jesus is God not that Jesus is God besides God (a complete misnomer)


This shows pure ignorance of the author of the Qur'an and his straw man argument. If the author of the Qur'an is this ignorant, woe beside the followers of the book.





Question 3. From Quran 4:171
a. What exactly do the Christians call THREE according to Allah which we are expected to desist from saying as Christians? Is this three the same as TRINITY?

b. Do you know any Christian who deny that God is ONE?

Answer:
a. The only thing closest to THREE by Christians is the Trinity
b. There is no single Christian that believes other than God is ONE


It seems clearly that the author of the Qur'an cannot be said to understand what Christians believe.

Like I said:
As usual , the garment of Islam is about STRAW MAN arguments based either on gross IGNORANCE or deliberate FALSEHOOD!






The questions you avoided answering is what I have answered for you and they prove one thing.
The Author and Source of the Qur'an is at best IGNORANT of Christian Doctrine or a Deliberate LIAR. Thus, he thus has to manufacture Straw man to have something to attack.

Rephrase in whichever manner to restate issues already answered however you wish. I will not accommodate any of that or allow diversion away from the core.

The Qur’an doesn’t misrepresent the Trinity; instead, it outright rejects the whole idea of divine plurality. Calling that clueless mixes up a denial of theology with a simple misunderstanding. Define the trinity if you really want to show how the Quran hasn't addressed it!

Mi

honesttalk21:
This objection misses the mark in terms of methodology rather than wording. The Qur'an does not claim to represent the views of the majority of Christians, nor does it need to reference specific sects to make a valid critique. It focuses on theological assertions, their implications, and practices, rather than on how different denominations describe themselves. Requiring majority opinions or formal sect names is a contemporary apologetic standard that has been wrongly applied to a 7th-century Semitic text that is polemical in nature.

Your comparison to Shia or Akhbari beliefs is flawed as the Qur'an does not treat fringe theology as mainstream orthodoxy; it challenges claims about God, regardless of how widely accepted or formally recognized they may be. In prophetic discourse, truth and falsehood are not determined by majority consensus.

Regarding your numbered questions, points 1 to 4 are not relevant. The Qur'an's objection is not that Christians verbally deny the oneness of God, but rather that concepts like the Trinity, divine sonship, and shared divinity contradict that oneness at a conceptual level. One can assert that God is one while still violating the principle of absolute monotheism.

As for the identity of Allah in this context, it refers to anyone who attributes divinity, partners, persons, or divine mediation alongside God whether through doctrine, worship, or implication. Identifying specific sects is unnecessary because the focus is on the idea itself, not the label.

Describing this as an incomplete narrative misinterprets the genre of the text. The Qur'an is not an ethnographic study of Christian sects; it is a theological refutation. The perceived incompleteness lies not within the Qur'an but in an argument that confuses prophetic critique with a demographic survey.

To appropriately effect your arguments respond if indeed you don't ignore not to expose your lies and hypocrisy:



Rephrase in whichever manner to restate issues already answered however you wish. I will not accommodate any of that or allow diversion away from the core.

The Qur’an doesn’t misrepresent the Trinity; instead, it outright rejects the whole idea of divine plurality. Calling that clueless mixes up a denial of theology with a simple misunderstanding. Define the trinity if you really want to show how the Quran hasn't addressed it!

Sorry!

All you have said is that
1. Allah is a bad communicator and it requires you to say exactly what Allah intend to say.
2. Allah cannot be taken by his words because he seldom mean exactly what he says and it requires you to explain exactly what Allah meant to say


Are you really better in explaining Allah's words than Allah and his prophet?


What I have learnt from this is that without faithful Muslims, Allah's words are like the babblings of a toddler and we need expert Muslims to make the words legible to any normal person.

I can understand if you don't understand Trinity as YHWH is unlikely Anything in Creation BUT I expect Allah to understand Trinity which leads to two conclusions
1. Allah is truly ignorant of the Christians belief and doctrines
2. Allah is being deceptive by creating strawman easy for him to deal with. Allah is the best in deception, the Al-Makr himself.

Taoheed is extremely easy to comprehend because it is very similar to the Taoheed of Iblis. Allah can only be in one location at a time just as Iblis. Eight mountain goats (angels) carry the throne of Allah. Allah cannot even enter his creation even if he wanted to. I agree, Taoheed is easy to understand therefore, it must be true! SMH!?

It is of no wonder that Allah gives lame excuses all about the Qur'an.

I am sure you will agree with me that it is impossible to explain any concept to a person who is not ready to accept the TRUTH.
Unfortunately , the problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in Mohammed with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.



When you are ready for the TRUTH, the Truth will set you FREE

Ask the people of the book and you will receive the TRUTH according to Quran 16:43 and Qur'an 21:7

TenQ:
Mi
Sorry!

All you have said is that
1. Allah is a bad communicator and it requires you to say exactly what Allah intend to say.
2. Allah cannot be taken by his words because he seldom mean exactly what he says and it requires you to explain exactly what Allah meant to say


Are you really better in explaining Allah's words than Allah and his prophet?


What I have learnt from this is that without faithful Muslims, Allah's words are like the babblings of a toddler and we need expert Muslims to make the words legible to any normal person.

I can understand if you don't understand Trinity as YHWH is unlikely Anything in Creation BUT I expect Allah to understand Trinity which leads to two conclusions
1. Allah is truly ignorant of the Christians belief and doctrines
2. Allah is being deceptive by creating strawman easy for him to deal with. Allah is the best in deception, the Al-Makr himself.

Taoheed is extremely easy to comprehend because it is very similar to the Taoheed of Iblis. Allah can only be in one location at a time just as Iblis. Eight mountain goats (angels) carry the throne of Allah. Allah cannot even enter his creation even if he wanted to. I agree, Taoheed is easy to understand therefore, it must be true! SMH!?

It is of no wonder that Allah gives lame excuses all about the Qur'an.

I am sure you will agree with me that it is impossible to explain any concept to a person who is not ready to accept the TRUTH.
Unfortunately , the problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in Mohammed with Faith in God

Thus, like someone with fake sack of currency notes they think they are rich not knowing that they are extremely poor.



When you are ready for the TRUTH, the Truth will set you FREE

Ask the people of the book and you will receive the TRUTH according to Quran 16:43 and Qur'an 21:7

Evasion as expected. To simply present your accepted definition to compare with what the Quran says makes you only garulous?

Do much better!

honesttalk21:
Evasion as expected. To simply present your accepted definition to compare with what the Quran says makes you only garulous?

Do much better!

The problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in Mohammed with Faith in God

The truth doesn't matter to you and except by God's grace, the Al-Makr has succeeded over your life. I pray that one day your eyes will open as the Light is useless to a Blind man.




Have a good night rest please

TenQ:
The problems of Muslims are three folds
1. Muslims do NOT care about the Truth
2. Muslims do not ask RELEVANT Questions about Religion
3. They Equate BLIND faith with Faith in Mohammed with Faith in God

The truth doesn't matter to you and except by God's grace, the Al-Makr has succeeded over your life. I pray that one day your eyes will open as the Light is useless to a Blind man.




Have a good night rest please

All in a bid to avoid answering one question. This is who you are.

honesttalk21:
All in a bid to avoid answering one question. This is who you are.

Have you asked me any questions I didn't answer?

It is you who avoid answering questions. I even had to answer the three questions I asked you to answer because you were evading it as usual.

If you think I haven't answered your question, kindly post it here and I will oblige you

I only fear wasting my time with one who is not interested in the Truth. If a person is bent on calling colour white as green, it doesn't matter the evidence showed him, white will always be called green

TenQ:
Have you asked me any questions I didn't answer?

It is you who avoid answering questions. I even had to answer the three questions I asked you to answer because you were evading it as usual.

If you think I haven't answered your question, kindly post it here and I will oblige you

I only fear wasting my time with one who is not interested in the Truth. If a person is bent on calling colour white as green, it doesn't matter the evidence showed him, white will always be called green

Lame excuse. When I asked you to define trinity as you understand it so we can clearly address your claim to the Quran defining it or not have you? Persistently refusing to and deflecting to other questions is definitely not the way to go.
In any case it's no surprise to me or most who read your posts on this forum.

honesttalk21:
Lame excuse. When I asked you to define trinity as you understand it so we can clearly address your claim to the Quran defining it or not have you? Persistently refusing to and deflecting to other questions is definitely not the way to go.
In any case it's no surprise to me or most who read your posts on this forum.

The Qur'an through it's author erroneously defined the Trinity in every verse in the Qur'an.
-It calls Trinity THREE at least you admitted Allah was referring to the Trinity
-It calls Trinity Allah, Mary and Jesus
-It calls Jesus God besides God.
- It says Christians call Jesus the Messiah Allah and now we don't know who exactly is number two or three

You want me to correct Allah's definition of Trinity for you to say because Allah is wrong he could not have been defining the Trinity!?
Sorry! You will not get the opportunity from me.

Allah cannot even define correctly the Spirit how much more the Trinity.

Sorry!

It is not the first time Allah's ignorance is made manifest in the Qur'an. Example, let's ask Allah how man was created
1. He was created by BE!
2. He was created with Allah's two hands
3. He was created from mud and even clay
4. He was created from emissions
5. He was created from Sperm-Drop
6. Man was created from a clot
The Qur'an is simply a comedy of errors

Quran 4:82:
"Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction."

But like mules to the slaughter, Muslims will not heed warnings

TenQ:
The Qur'an through it's author erroneously defined the Trinity in every verse in the Qur'an.
-It calls Trinity THREE at least you admitted Allah was referring to the Trinity
-It calls Trinity Allah, Mary and Jesus
-It calls Jesus God besides God.
- It says Christians call Jesus the Messiah Allah and now we don't know who exactly is number two or three

You want me to correct Allah's definition of Trinity for you to say because Allah is wrong he could not have been defining the Trinity!?
Sorry! You will not get the opportunity from me.

Allah cannot even define correctly the Spirit how much more the Trinity.

Sorry!

It is not the first time Allah's ignorance is made manifest in the Qur'an. Example, let's ask Allah how many was created
1. He was created by BE!
2. He was created with Allah's two hands
3. He was created from mud and even clay
4. He was created from emissions
5. He was created from Sperm-Drop
6. Man was created from a clot
The Qur'an is simply a comedy of errors

Quran 4:82:
"Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction."

But like mules to the slaughter, Muslims will not heed warnings

And you expose yourself as true to type and explain why you are scared

honesttalk21:
And you expose yourself as true to type and explain why you are scared

Why such a load of contradictions and display of ignorance by one why is supposed to be all-knowing!?
Only Muslims can explain!!

When a Deity rules the heart of his subjects by Strawman tactics. Allah redefines a concept in a way he can deal with and to fool Muslims with. No wonder, Allah is the Al-Makr

TenQ:
The Qur'an through it's author erroneously defined the Trinity in every verse in the Qur'an.
-It calls Trinity THREE at least you admitted Allah was referring to the Trinity
-It calls Trinity Allah, Mary and Jesus
-It calls Jesus God besides God.
- It says Christians call Jesus the Messiah Allah and now we don't know who exactly is number two or three

You want me to correct Allah's definition of Trinity for you to say because Allah is wrong he could not have been defining the Trinity!?
Sorry! You will not get the opportunity from me.

Allah cannot even define correctly the Spirit how much more the Trinity.

Sorry!

It is not the first time Allah's ignorance is made manifest in the Qur'an. Example, let's ask Allah how man was created
1. He was created by BE!
2. He was created with Allah's two hands
3. He was created from mud and even clay
4. He was created from emissions
5. He was created from Sperm-Drop
6. Man was created from a clot
The Qur'an is simply a comedy of errors

Quran 4:82:
"Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction."

But like mules to the slaughter, Muslims will not heed warnings

You are confusing the use of different descriptions with contradictions. The Qur'an doesn't present conflicting accounts of human origins; rather, it offers various levels of explanation: Be represents a divine command (the cause), clay or mud refers to our material beginnings, sperm or clot describes the biological process, and two hands signifies honor rather than anatomical details. Similarly, the mention of the Spirit is intentionally restricted in its explanation (Qur'an 17:85), which should not be interpreted as being undefined. Limiting information does not imply a lack of knowledge. The real misunderstanding comes from interpreting the layered, non-technical Semitic language as if it were a precise scientific manual.

honesttalk21:
You are confusing the use of different descriptions with contradictions. The Qur'an doesn't present conflicting accounts of human origins; rather, it offers various levels of explanation: Be represents a divine command (the cause), clay or mud refers to our material beginnings, sperm or clot describes the biological process, and two hands signifies honor rather than anatomical details. Similarly, the mention of the Spirit is intentionally restricted in its explanation (Qur'an 17:85), which should not be interpreted as being undefined. Limiting information does not imply a lack of knowledge. The real misunderstanding comes from interpreting the layered, non-technical Semitic language as if it were a precise scientific manual.

I claimed I built my house with the command BE and the House came to be
LATER
I claimed I bought cement bags, moulded blocks and hired a bricklayer to build the same house.

And according to islamic logic, this is not a contradiction!?


Allah is ignorant of what the Spirit is and this can easily be proved.
So, what is the Spirit according to Allah?

TenQ:
I claimed I built my house with the command BE and the House came to be
LATER
I claimed I bought cement bags, moulded blocks and hired a bricklayer to build the same house.

And according to islamic logic, this is not a contradiction!?


Allah is ignorant of what the Spirit is and this can easily be proved.
So, what is the Spirit according to Allah?

Your analogy is flawed because it mixes up cause and process. Be refers to divine command that is the cause, while clay, sperm, and clot represent stages and methods which is the process. Stating that I commanded the house to exist and that it was constructed with materials is not contradictory; it’s a more nuanced explanation. Only someone who interprets literally would see a conflict. Regarding the Spirit, the Qur’an clearly states that its nature is beyond human understanding (17:85). Limited knowledge does not equal ignorance. Lastly, I should follow your attitude from the discussion about the Trinity and indeed you only show your poiition based on misconception. The Qur’an does not provide a definition of the Trinity; it outright rejects the idea of divine plurality. Rejection is not the same as misdefinition. Having multiple descriptions does not imply contradiction, and making category errors does not demonstrate ignorance.

honesttalk21:
Your analogy is flawed because it mixes up cause and process. Be refers to divine command that is the cause, while clay, sperm, and clot represent stages and methods which is the process. Stating that I commanded the house to exist and that it was constructed with materials is not contradictory; it’s a more nuanced explanation. Only someone who interprets literally would see a conflict. Regarding the Spirit, the Qur’an clearly states that its nature is beyond human understanding (17:85). Limited knowledge does not equal ignorance. Lastly, I should follow your attitude from the discussion about the Trinity and indeed you only show your poiition based on misconception. The Qur’an does not provide a definition of the Trinity; it outright rejects the idea of divine plurality. Rejection is not the same as misdefinition. Having multiple descriptions does not imply contradiction, and making category errors does not demonstrate ignorance.

The command Kunfayakun has to be redefined to be other than what it is supposed to be!?


No wonder, there exist no iota of evidence that Allah is the Creator other than he is aka
Hubal,
As-Samad (the collection) and
Lord of Sirius (star constellation). Each of these names are of pre-islamic Arab deities such that Allah is indeed Taoheed (unification) of these Deities.

So you have any evidence that Allah is the Creator other than Mohammed's claims?

TenQ:
The command Kunfayakun has to be redefined to be other than what it is supposed to be!?


No wonder, there exist no iota of evidence that Allah is the Creator other than he is aka
Hubal,
As-Samad (the collection) and
Lord of Sirius (star constellation). Each of these names are of pre-islamic Arab deities such that Allah is indeed Taoheed (unification) of these Deities.

So you have any evidence that Allah is the Creator other than Mohammed's claims?

Your argument is flawed due to historical and logical inaccuracies. Kun fayakun refers to a cause rather than a redefinition or mechanism; a command is not the same as a process. There is no evidence to support the idea that Allah was Hubal; Hubal was an idol, while Allah was recognized as being above idols even before Islam was finalised by prophet Muhammad pbuh, including by pagans. The term As-Samad does not appear as a name for a deity in any pre-Islamic sources; provide a reference or retract that claim. The phrase Lord of Sirius in the Qur'an (53:49) actually rejects star worship rather than endorsing it. As for evidence of Allah as the Creator, Islam maintains continuity with the concept of a singular, uncreated God of Abraham, there is no image, genealogy, or pantheon involved. Your assertion of a fusion deity is more of a polemic than a substantiated argument. Simply making claims does not constitute evidence.

It's sorry you fish into your pool of misunderstood concepts when your errors are made plain. You hope to undo more accurate and appropriate description by that?

honesttalk21:
Your argument is flawed due to historical and logical inaccuracies. Kun fayakun refers to a cause rather than a redefinition or mechanism; a command is not the same as a process. There is no evidence to support the idea that Allah was Hubal; Hubal was an idol, while Allah was recognized as being above idols even before Islam was finalised by prophet Muhammad pbuh, including by pagans.

Tell me, what are the names of the three daughters of Hubal? How come a sacrifice to Hubal is a sacrifice to Allah?

honesttalk21:
The term As-Samad does not appear as a name for a deity in any pre-Islamic sources; provide a reference or retract that claim.

I didn't claim that As-Samad is a pre-islamic deity. I said it is a collection where you find everything. This was why I reminded you of the meaning of Taoheed meaning UNIFICATION.
Islam is a unification of Deities and Religions.

Every deity and religion a man could look for is in the As-Samad: the one stop shop for religion. Look no further if you want to kiss the black stone or to perform hajj or to run between Safa and Marwa. Islam even incorporated the God of the Jews and Christians, copied as much as you wanted.

Do you now see the link between Taoheed (UNIFICATION) and Ahad (ONE-OF several)

Otherwise, tell me why Allah often use indiscriminately pronouns of WE or OUR or US. It reminds me of Legion speaking through the demonised man at gadarene

Mark 5:2-9:
"And as soon as He had left the ship, there met Him from out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one had the power to restrain him even with chains; For he had often been bound with fetters and chains, but the chains had been torn to pieces by him, and the fetters had been shattered; and no one had the strength to subdue him. And continually, night and day, in the mountains and in the tombs, he was screaming and cutting himself with stones. But when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have I to do with You , Jesus, Son of God the Most High? I adjure You by God, do not torment me.” For He was saying to it, “Unclean spirit, come out of the man.” And He asked it, “What is your name?” And it answered, “ My name is Legion, because we are many.”"

Just like Allah, see the changes in pronouns!

honesttalk21:
The phrase Lord of Sirius in the Qur'an (53:49) actually rejects star worship rather than endorsing it.

Sorry, it seems you don't know that the deity of the constellation of stars called Sirius is Allah!?

رَبُّ الشِّعْرَىٰ (Rabbu ash-Shi‘rā)—the Lord of Sirius—is Allah, as stated in Quran 53:49:

Quran 53:49
"And that it is He (Allah) who is the Lord of Sirius"


Allah is the deity of Sirius just like we have the moon God or the god of Venus .

honesttalk21:
As for evidence of Allah as the Creator, Islam maintains continuity with the concept of a singular, uncreated God of Abraham, there is no image, genealogy, or pantheon involved. Your assertion of a fusion deity is more of a polemic than a substantiated argument. Simply making claims does not constitute evidence.

Sorry, this is no evidence!
Give me any evidence that show that Allah's claim of being the creator is real.
Show me that Allah has any powers by which we can use to trust him.

honesttalk21:
It's sorry you fish into your pool of misunderstood concepts when your errors are made plain. You hope to undo more accurate and appropriate description by that?

Sorry!
Taoheed is a unification of gods and unification of religions.

TenQ:
Tell me, what are the names of the three daughters of Hubal? How come a sacrifice to Hubal is a sacrifice to Allah?

Even if you appear tranced into a state of drunken confusion let me break and reply your statements one by one perharps you will gain staying clarity.

Al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were goddesses in paganism, but they were not considered daughters of Hubal, and the Qur’an clearly denies that they were daughters of Allah. Specifically you know Allah does not beget nor is begotten.🤔
Even before Islam, Allah was recognized by pagans as the supreme Creator, while Hubal was simply a statue used for fortune-telling. Mixing up Allah with Hubal is a fundamental misunderstanding. The Creator cannot be compared to a stone idol. In Islam, the essence of sacrifice lies in intention, and any sacrifice made to an idol is considered shirk, not true worship of Allah. Referring to Allah while worshipping idols indicates a distortion of monotheism rather than its preservation.

honesttalk21:
Even if you appear tranced into a state of drunken confusion let me break and reply your statements one by one perharps you will gain staying clarity.

Al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were goddesses in paganism, but they were not considered daughters of Hubal, and the Qur’an clearly denies that they were daughters of Allah. Specifically you know Allah does not beget nor is begotten.🤔
Even before Islam, Allah was recognized by pagans as the supreme Creator, while Hubal was simply a statue used for fortune-telling. Mixing up Allah with Hubal is a fundamental misunderstanding. The Creator cannot be compared to a stone idol. In Islam, the essence of sacrifice lies in intention, and any sacrifice made to an idol is considered shirk, not true worship of Allah. Referring to Allah while worshipping idols indicates a distortion of monotheism rather than its preservation.

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You will note that the daughters of Hubal are the daughters of Allah. Hubal is the visible idol representing Allah. This is why a sacrifice to Hubal was a sacrifice to Allah

TenQ:
I didn't claim that As-Samad is a pre-islamic deity. I said it is a collection where you find everything. This was why I reminded you of the meaning of Taoheed meaning UNIFICATION.
Islam is a unification of Deities and Religions.

Every deity and religion a man could look for is in the As-Samad: the one stop shop for religion. Look no further if you want to kiss the black stone or to perform hajj or to run between Safa and Marwa. Islam even incorporated the God of the Jews and Christians, copied as much as you wanted.

Do you now see the link between Taoheed (UNIFICATION) and Ahad (ONE-OF several)

Otherwise, tell me why Allah often use indiscriminately pronouns of WE or OUR or US. It reminds me of Legion speaking through the demonised man at gadarene

Mark 5:2-9:
"And as soon as He had left the ship, there met Him from out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one had the power to restrain him even with chains; For he had often been bound with fetters and chains, but the chains had been torn to pieces by him, and the fetters had been shattered; and no one had the strength to subdue him. And continually, night and day, in the mountains and in the tombs, he was screaming and cutting himself with stones. But when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have I to do with You , Jesus, Son of God the Most High? I adjure You by God, do not torment me.” For He was saying to it, “Unclean spirit, come out of the man.” And He asked it, “What is your name?” And it answered, “ My name is Legion, because we are many.”"

Just like Allah, see the changes in pronouns!

You are not upholding your initial argument; instead, you are rephrasing it. You claimed that Allah is a combination of pre-Islamic gods Hubal, As-Samad, and the Lord of Sirius. This is a historical claim that fails because there is no supporting evidence. As-Samad is not documented as a pre-Islamic deity,there are no inscriptions, cults, idols, or divine names associated with it. Moreover, there is no recognized Islamic translation or scholarly interpretation that describes As-Samad as the collection.That interpretation is a fabrication, not a proper analysis. Perhaps if you share your reference for this the root of your misunderstanding can be finally addressed. Tawhid does not refer to the unification of gods; it signifies the rejection of plurality entirely. Redefining it as syncretism distorts its true meaning. Similarly, Ahad in Qur’anic Arabic represents absolute, indivisible oneness, not one among several. Your interpretation is lexically incorrect. The use of plural divine pronouns We/Our does not prove anything. They represent the royal plural, which is common in Semitic scriptures, including the Hebrew Bible. Comparing this to Legion’s ontological plurality is a fundamental mistake. Legion means many actual beings merged into chaos. God's royal we is one sovereign using majestic language and is totally different. Additionally, ritual continuity does not equate to theological identity. The reuse of sites and practices does not mean that deities were absorbed, just as Christianity’s use of Jewish scripture does not make YHWH a collection. You made a claim about historical identity, were asked for evidence, and then shifted to metaphor. You need to provide concrete proof that As-Samad was a pre-Islamic deity or retract your statement your conscious attempt to retract is rejected.

TenQ:
Sorry, it seems you don't know that the deity of the constellation of stars called Sirius is Allah!?

رَبُّ الشِّعْرَىٰ (Rabbu ash-Shi‘rā)—the Lord of Sirius—is Allah, as stated in Quran 53:49:

Quran 53:49
"And that it is He (Allah) who is the Lord of Sirius"


Allah is the deity of Sirius just like we have the moon God or the god of Venus .

Qur’an 53:49 does not refer to Allah as a star deity; instead, it refutes the idea that Sirius is divine. In Semitic language, the phrase Lord of X indicates authority over X rather than being the same as X. Even the verse you quote and choose to deliberately misread or misinterprete shows this: And that it is He (Allah) who is the Lord of Sirius. By this who is the Lord of Sirius? ? ?
For instance, if Allah were called the Lord of the heavens and the earth, it wouldn’t mean He is the sky or the ground, which is clearly illogical. Historically, Sirius (al-Shiʿra) was worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia. The verse places the star under Allah’s authority to remove its divine status, not to assign one to it. Allah is not considered the god of Sirius in a pagan context; rather, He is the Lord of (over) Sirius. The mistake lies in confusing lordship (rububiyyah) with identity (uluhiyyah). Recognizing this distinction undermines the claim.

TenQ:
Sorry, this is no evidence!
Give me any evidence that show that Allah's claim of being the creator is real.
Show me that Allah has any powers by which we can use to trust him.


Sorry!
Taoheed is a unification of gods and unification of religions.

Your demand sets an unrealistic and contradictory standard. No theistic tradition demonstrates its Creator through empirical displays of power; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and philosophy all depend on logical reasoning, and coherence. It is arbitrary to hold Islam to a different standard. Islam's assertion of Allah as the Creator is based on a non-mythical, non-composite God without images, lineage, or a pantheon aligning with Abrahamic monotheism and supported by metaphysical reasoning rather than spectacle. You provide no counter-evidence, only dismissal. If observable power is a requirement, then all forms of theism would fail equally, not just Islam. I will expect you to show otherwise.
Your last has been previously addressed.

honesttalk21:
✓ Even if you appear tranced into a state of drunken confusion let me break and reply your statements one by one perharps you will gain staying clarity.

Al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were goddesses in paganism, but they were not considered daughters of Hubal, and the Qur’an clearly denies that they were daughters of Allah. Specifically you know Allah does not beget nor is begotten.🤔
Even before Islam, Allah was recognized by pagans as the supreme Creator, while Hubal was simply a statue used for fortune-telling. ...

Allah did not exist before Mohammed came up with the name. There is no history tracing that particular term to any people or region before Mohammed started his religion. There are opinions on where he possibly got the idea for the name from, but the actual name as is used today...Allah... didn't exist as is until after Mohammed came up with it as the name for the deity belonging to his religion . 🥱🥱🥱

honesttalk21:
You are not upholding your initial argument; instead, you are rephrasing it. You claimed that Allah is a combination of pre-Islamic gods Hubal, As-Samad, and the Lord of Sirius. This is a historical claim that fails because there is no supporting evidence. As-Samad is not documented as a pre-Islamic deity,there are no inscriptions, cults, idols, or divine names associated with it. Moreover, there is no recognized Islamic translation or scholarly interpretation that describes As-Samad as the collection.That interpretation is a fabrication, not a proper analysis. Perhaps if you share your reference for this the root of your misunderstanding can be finally addressed. Tawhid does not refer to the unification of gods; it signifies the rejection of plurality entirely. Redefining it as syncretism distorts its true meaning. Similarly, Ahad in Qur’anic Arabic represents absolute, indivisible oneness, not one among several. Your interpretation is lexically incorrect. The use of plural divine pronouns We/Our does not prove anything. They represent the royal plural, which is common in Semitic scriptures, including the Hebrew Bible. Comparing this to Legion’s ontological plurality is a fundamental mistake. Legion means many actual beings merged into chaos. God's royal we is one sovereign using majestic language and is totally different. Additionally, ritual continuity does not equate to theological identity. The reuse of sites and practices does not mean that deities were absorbed, just as Christianity’s use of Jewish scripture does not make YHWH a collection. You made a claim about historical identity, were asked for evidence, and then shifted to metaphor. You need to provide concrete proof that As-Samad was a pre-Islamic deity or retract your statement your conscious attempt to retract is rejected.

You are repeating your position to which I have given you a clear answer. You can't force me to say what I did not explicitly state about As-Samad (collection). Go back and look at what I said.

At least, you now know that Allah is the god/lord of Sirius. It is like saying that Allah is the Moon-god

Again, Ahad is not ONE but ONE-OF. One of the tricks of the deceiver to imprison your mind

If you deny this, show me any verse with Ahad in the Qur'an that means ONE apart from the fake translation in Qur'an 112:1. Note: The word Ahad appears about 93 times in the Qur'an and EVERY TIME it connotes ONE-OF many or group/ ANY-OF etc. Ahad is always a Selection of One out of a GROUP.

Royal we!?
And you think this is wisdom!?

Royal we is ALWAYS the King AND his Cabinet. , meaning that he is NOT acting ALONE but with his council.

If Allah is using the royal we, then he depends upon his creation for his powers OR like Legion, he is many!

Have you confirmed that the daughters of Allah are the daughters of Hubal? Have you confirmed that Allah is the god/Lord of Sirius? These have serious implications. Have you confirmed that Taoheed is UNIFICATION?

Sorry. No amount of struggles will make Islam of God the Creator.

I am still waiting for any evidence that Allah is the Creator!