₦airaland Forum

SIRTee15:
I didn't quite u so allow the person I quoted to answer the question. Don't drink panadal for another's man headache.

They are the ones that said Quran is the verbatim word of God- the all knowing and all wise.
So let's check if the claim can be backed by evidence.

This is a forum and is for debate, you cannot limit who replies to your claim.

The second you post anything its open for debate BY ANYONE.

Eniitankorede:
You can’t shock me. But I will shock you, the religion with largest reverts in the world is Islam. You can’t compare the large number of Muslims to the small number in other religions. In fact, Christianity is fast declining in the west. Churches are turning to mosques in U.K. What is more shocking than that?

I read your post and then saw this video pop up on my YouTube page. It is worth watching. 🥱🥱

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pW5MmZrYFs?si=kCmzWDHzjUCP7RP2

Fenrir:
This is a forum and is for debate, you cannot limit who replies to your claim.

The second you post anything its open for debate BY ANYONE.

The question is for those who believe Quran is the verbatim word of God to defend the claim with evidence.

If u don't believe in the Quran, why are u responding.

It's like asking teenagers who have menstrual cramps to discuss their experience and a boy is coming forward. What exactly does he have to say!!!!!

SIRTee15:
The question is for those who believe Quran is the verbatim word of God to defend the claim with evidence.

If u don't believe in the Quran, why are u responding.

It's like asking teenagers who have menstrual cramps to discuss their experience and a boy is coming forward. What exactly does he have to say!!!!!

Typical religious person changing the rules and definition.

No, fella what you did was say "lets find out"

And "lets find out = the word VERIFY"

VERY VERY SIMPLE LANGUAGE TO PROVE IT

"My mate John said he got a new car, LETS GO FIND OUT if he did"

Lets find out = verify thats an open invitation for anyone to debate you

SIRTee15:
The question is for those who believe Quran is the verbatim word of God to defend the claim with evidence.

If u don't believe in the Quran, why are u responding.

It's like asking teenagers who have menstrual cramps to discuss their experience and a boy is coming forward. What exactly does he have to say!!!!!

You made an objective claim and invited verification.
Verification is not restricted to believers.
If your method only works when outsiders are excluded, it isn’t a method.

CyynthiaKiss:
Every Islamist must read and digest this.

Nlfpmod Nlfpmod

It is a great pity that your own religion, which is obviously not Christianity, did not make you resist posting hatred against your religious neighbours.

budaatum:
It is a great pity that your own religion, which is obviously not Christianity, did not make you resist posting hatred against your religious neighbours.

On claims of “peace”, friendship, and hypocrisy (texts only, no insults)

You posted the following idea:
that a religion should make its followers resist posting hostility toward religious neighbours.

So let’s examine this textually, the same way contradictions are examined elsewhere.
No abuse. No emotions. Just sources and consistency.

What the Quran says about friendship and alliance

Quran 5:51

O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians as awliya (allies / close friends / protectors). They are allies of one another. Whoever among you takes them as allies is surely one of them.

This verse explicitly restricts close alliance / loyalty with Christians and Jews.

Quran 3:28

Let not the believers take the disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Whoever does that has nothing to do with Allah…

Again, religious loyalty is exclusive, not universal.

Quran 58:22

You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers, sons, brothers, or relatives.

Here, faith loyalty overrides family, friendship, and social bonds.

What is allowed

Quran 60:8

Allah does not forbid you from being kind and just to those who do not fight you because of religion nor expel you from your homes…

This permits:

basic kindness

fairness

civil coexistence

It does not command close friendship, alliance, or shared loyalty.

Kindness ≠ alliance.

Non Muslims under Islamic rule

Quran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah… among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.

This establishes:

conditional tolerance

taxation (jizya)

political subordination

Again, this is hierarchical coexistence, not equal friendship.

Plain conclusion

From the Quran itself:

Close alliance with non Muslims is restricted

Loyalty is religiously exclusive

Peaceful coexistence is conditional

Non Muslims live under different status within Islamic governance

So claims like “religion of peace” or “automatic friendship with all neighbours” are slogans, not textual descriptions.

Quoting primary religious texts is not hatred.
Applying the same standard of scrutiny across religions is not hypocrisy.

Fenrir:
On claims of “peace”, friendship, and hypocrisy (texts only, no insults).

Now be true to yourself and post verses from the Quran that tell you not to be hostile to those of other faiths. You do know they exist, right?

I have added the next verse to your Quran 60:8, in case you can be honest and not lie.

budaatum:
Now be true to yourself and post verses from the Quran that tell you not to be hostile to those of other faiths. You do know they exist, right?

I have added the next verse to your Quran 60:8, in case you can be honest and not lie.

Im atheist and European that lives in Nigeria
Norwegian specifically BUT ex British royal marine

That fought in Afghanistan and many many more places. I know your quran fella I was forced to read as much as I could tolerate day 1 and to be honest I could NOT tolerate much of it

Fenrir:
Quoting primary religious texts is not hatred.
Applying the same standard of scrutiny across religions is not hypocrisy.

Your post is like me posting the below and then claiming Jesus is calling for the murder of those who don't believe what he says they must, which is just plain stup¹d and ïgnorant, and should indicate I have not read the book or just don't understand what I read.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

budaatum:
Your post is like me posting the below and then claiming Jesus is calling for the murder of those who don't believe what he says they must, which is just plain stup¹d and ïgnorant, and should indicate I have not read the book or just don't understand what I read.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

Muhammad and Jesus are the exact opposite so you cannot compare the 2 in the way you can compare the 2 BUT NOT in that way

Muhammad used the sword to convert
Jesus used a towel and served

Thats just the biggest difference

And..... "luke 19:27" not "jesus 19:27" shot yourself in the foot there.

Fenrir:
.... and to be honest I could NOT tolerate much of it

Which proves my point. You didn't read the book, and are quoting verses out of context with no understanding whatsoever!

And I am a born atheist bred in Europe, not that that should matter.

Fenrir:
Muhammad and Jesus are the exact opposite so you cannot compare the 2 in the way you can compare the 2 BUT NOT in that way

Muhammad used the sword to convert
Jesus used a towel and served

Thats just the biggest difference

I am very certain I can compare Islam and Christianity however, especially since the latter is not all about Jesus.

Or would you like to say God did not tell his own converts to use a sword?

budaatum:
Your post is like me posting the below and then claiming Jesus is calling for the murder of those who don't believe what he says they must, which is just plain stup¹d and ïgnorant, and should indicate I have not read the book or just don't understand what I read.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

At the end of day.....

How many people did jesus kill?
How many people did Muhammad kill?

You CAN compare the 2 but you CANNOT compare them the way you just tried to

And again im atheist so its all fairytales to me

budaatum:
✓ Which proves my point. You didn't read the book, and are quoting verses out of context with no understanding whatsoever!

And I am a born atheist bred in Europe, not that that should matter.

Oh, I disagree with your assessment of OP's post. And I also don't buy the claim that anyone who calls out the Islamic truth does so out of hate. 🥱🥱🥱

Yes, every religion out there is a scam, but we all know that Islam is a religion that is not only a scam but also bent on the ruin of those who don't subscribe to their ideologies, and this has to do with the fact that the true Muslim is a Muslim who lives his life according to the way Mohammed lives his life
That should scare the bejezzusss out of anyone out there. 🥱🥱🥱

Fenrir:
And..... "luke 19:27" not "jesus 19:27" shot yourself in the foot there.

And I suppose you missed your own foot when you quoted "Mohammed 60:8" instead of "60. Al-Mumtahanah"?

budaatum:
I am very certain I can compare Islam and Christianity however, especially since the latter is not all about Jesus.

Or would you like to say God did not tell his own converts to use a sword?

See, typical religious person
You attempted to change the rules

1st it was Jesus and you were proven wrong then immediately switched to comparing the religions

Proving yet more hypocrisy in yourself

Kobojunkie:
Oh, I disagree with your assessment of OP's post. And I also don't buy the claim that anyone who calls out the Islamic truth does so out of hate. 🥱🥱🥱

You are entitled to disagree. Especially when you call ops post "Islamic truth", which it clearly is not.

If op's post were "Islamic truth", don't you think most of the world would ban it?

And do you think predominantly Christian London would elect a Muslim as Mayor three times if what op posted were "Islamic truth"?

Kobojunkie:
I read your post and then saw this video pop up on my YouTube page. It is worth watching. 🥱🥱

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pW5MmZrYFs?si=kCmzWDHzjUCP7RP2

So you agree! And you are now asking why? You will continue to argue about the why until all your family become Muslims.

Fenrir:
See, typical religious person
You attempted to change the rules

1st it was Jesus and you were proven wrong then immediately switched to comparing the religions

Proving yet more hypocrisy in yourself

I am likely way more atheist than you are, and only your blindness would make you claim I am of either religion.

This thread is entirely about religions. And that includes all the priests and prophets and writers in their respective books! And if either religion were calling for the eradication of people of other faiths (as opposed to the ïgnorants who think some faith calls for such eradication) that faith itself should be eradicated!

SIRTee15:
Forget about this bragging right about whose father's farm is the biggest.
Focus on the truth....

Is Quran the verbatim word of God?

Cosmological contradiction.

Allah created the Heaven first or, the Earth first (?)

Which one was created first? As you will see in the verses below, Allah at one time says that Earth was created first and another time He says that the Heaven was created first.

Quran-2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….

Quran- 79:27-30: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth.

Quran 41.9-12
Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds." And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask. Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

Eniitankorede, kindly tell us which one did Allah created forst- heaven or earth.

If you understand simple English you will know that heaven was formed but not completed when He created the earth. It is so easy for a kindergarten child to understand. I am even surprised you are wondering if this is a revelation when you can see the truth depressions in the verses. Do they sound like someone telling the story of another person?

Kobojunkie:
Yes, every religion out there is a scam, but we all know ......

No, kobo, I don't know what you claim. So please say you know, without including me in your "we"!

budaatum:
Your post is like me posting the below and then claiming Jesus is calling for the murder of those who don't believe what he says they must, which is just plain stup¹d and ïgnorant, and should indicate I have not read the book or just don't understand what I read.

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

You tried to imply JESUS called for murder

You tried to compare the men, im not defending or attacking either belief system both have killed more than millions of people worldwide

So compare THE MEN LIKE YOU TRIED TO DO and answer the question

How many people did jesus kill?
How many people did Muhammad kill?

Makes no difference to me fella im an atheist and like I said its all fairytales to me

budaatum:
I am likely way more atheist than you are, and only your blindness would make you claim I am of either religion.

This thread is entirely about religions. And that includes all the priests and prophets and writers in their respective books! And if either religion were calling for the eradication of people of other faiths (as opposed to the ïgnorants who think some faith calls for such eradication) that faith itself should be eradicated!

There is no god or gods at all
Jesus was just a wise man not the son of a god
Muhammad just a warlord

Thats my beliefs,
I follow no religion
I practice no religion
I believe in no gods at all

Thats definition of atheist

You cannot be MORE atheist

There are different of atheists but by definition you cannot be MORE atheist

SIRTee15:
Since u are not ready to engage in the truth but prefers to deal with irrelevance such as numbers of adherents, let's deal with numbers in the Quran.

IS QURAN THE WORD OF GOD? LET'S FIND OUT.

There are many numerical contradictions in the Quran. God cannot make an error in doing simple calculations.



Quran 41:12 where you only quoted the firmaments created in 2 days. If you continue reading you will see other things created in the heavens in remaining days. Stop quoting out of context.
How many days did it take to create the Heavens and the Earth?

Quran-7:54: Your guardian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran-10:3: Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran- 11:7: He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that Allah ( God) created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated

Quran-41:9 : Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran-41:12: So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2 (for earth) + 2 (for heavens) = 4 days; and not 6 days.

So how long did it take Allah to create heaven and earth? Eniitankorede tell us.

Other things created in heavens were mentioned in Quran 41:12 which you skilfully omitted. Those were not created within the two days. Read it properly.

Fenrir:
How many people did jesus kill?
How many people did Muhammad kill?

Are you suggesting we don't ask "how many people did the Christian God and the supposed father of Jesus ask to be killed?

Or is it that your own atheism separates the teachings of Jesus from that of the Old Testament it was built on?

By the way, comparing Mohammed to Jesus just shows the limits of your knowledge. It would be more appropriate to equate him with Elijah who executed 450 prophets of Baal, and Elisha whose blessing led to bears mauling youths who mocked him, and Moses.

Fenrir:
There is no god or gods at all
Jesus was just a wise man not the son of a god
Muhammad just a warlord

There was probably no Jesus neither, but that's irrelevant since we can argue the stories even if made up.

SIRTee15:
Let me shock once again.

The fastest growing religious sect by conversion is Pentecostal Christianity.
Yes u heard right, the fastest growing religious movement by CONVERSION is not Islam BUT PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT.
Christianity is not dying in UK, what is dying is church of England and rightly so.
A church that promotes homosexuality deserves to die. Any church that promotes humanity over spirituality will meets its end soon because people have finally realised u don't need religion to be a good person.

Orthodox all over the world are struggling. Even in Nigeria, Anglican, Methodist and even Catholic are experiencing dwindling fortune so it's not a UK problem alone.
What is growing by conversion is Pentecostal movement and it's faster than Islam.
According to Pew research, 1 million people converts to Islam every year while 4 million people converts to Christianity mainly Pentecostalism.

Pentecostal growth is situated within Christianity. The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Read what AI has to say:

AI Overview


+2
Why Muslims are the world's fastest-growing religious group
Islam is projected to be the fastest-growing major religion globally, primarily due to high fertility rates and a young population, with forecasts suggesting it will nearly equal Christianity in numbers by 2050, though Christianity remains the largest faith now, according to studies by the Pew Research Center.
Key Factors in Islam's Growth:
Youthful Population: Muslims have the youngest median age compared to other religious groups.
Higher Fertility Rates: Muslim women generally have more children, contributing significantly to population growth.
Geographic Spread: Continued growth through migration and commerce, especially in Asia, America, and Europe.
Projections:
By 2050, the global Muslim population is expected to grow faster than the Christian population.
While Christianity currently has the largest number of followers (around 2.3 billion), Islam is close behind (around 2.0 billion) and growing rapidly.

budaatum:
There was probably no Jesus neither, but that's irrelevant since we can argue the stories even if made up.

Then we agreed its all fairytale because I did not say "either existed" I just stated a moral framework

Wise man
War lord

Fenrir:
You tried to imply JESUS called for murder.

No I did not try to imply any such stupïdness, despite that might be the understanding of the quoted text if not read in context.

It's the same way you inferred the Quran was calling for murder which it clearly didn't, but you couldn't bother reading the book to find out.

Eniitankorede:
Pentecostal growth is situated within Christianity. The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Read what AI has to say:

AI Overview


+2
Why Muslims are the world's fastest-growing religious group
Islam is projected to be the fastest-growing major religion globally, primarily due to high fertility rates and a young population, with forecasts suggesting it will nearly equal Christianity in numbers by 2050, though Christianity remains the largest faith now, according to studies by the Pew Research Center.
Key Factors in Islam's Growth:
Youthful Population: Muslims have the youngest median age compared to other religious groups.
Higher Fertility Rates: Muslim women generally have more children, contributing significantly to population growth.
Geographic Spread: Continued growth through migration and commerce, especially in Asia, America, and Europe.
Projections:
By 2050, the global Muslim population is expected to grow faster than the Christian population.
While Christianity currently has the largest number of followers (around 2.3 billion), Islam is close behind (around 2.0 billion) and growing rapidly.

And now jusd tried to use AI to win the debate

The "+2" happens when AI forms a link BUT that link WONT copy and paste

I researched the crap out of AI the second people started accusing me of using it

Then I got a PAID AI DETECTOR not a free one a paid one

And this is just further proof of your hypocrisy

Eniitankorede:
Pentecostal growth is situated within Christianity. The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Read what AI has to say:

AI Overview


+2
Why Muslims are the world's fastest-growing religious group
Islam is projected to be the fastest-growing major religion globally, primarily due to high fertility rates and a young population, with forecasts suggesting it will nearly equal Christianity in numbers by 2050, though Christianity remains the largest faith now, according to studies by the Pew Research Center.
Key Factors in Islam's Growth:
Youthful Population: Muslims have the youngest median age compared to other religious groups.
Higher Fertility Rates: Muslim women generally have more children, contributing significantly to population growth.
Geographic Spread: Continued growth through migration and commerce, especially in Asia, America, and Europe.
Projections:
By 2050, the global Muslim population is expected to grow faster than the Christian population.
While Christianity currently has the largest number of followers (around 2.3 billion), Islam is close behind (around 2.0 billion) and growing rapidly.

And what it doesn't take into account is more people are leaving Islam faster than they are coverting or breeding more

People that are born into it are leaving it faster than its growing