₦airaland Forum

Mtmike:
Wanna be medical practitioner, would have love to respond to you but from your second line i also know your sense of reasoning is too close to the ground. God help you

Explain to me how the unavailability of antivenin is the fault of the doctor, Mr. Non wanna be medical practitioner

EXPRESSSMAN:
Believe me, Nigerian doctors in government hospitals are not trying at all. Their attitude towards the patients is not good. They can abandon a patient in the middle of an operation when they hear go on strike.
But we are blaming the government for the rut in the hospitals and not the doctors. But the doctors need to put humanity in their services.

No we dont abandon patients mid operations during a strike. I'm sure u dont know some doctors work during strikes,especially the ones in neonatal and intensive care unit. We dont wear ward coats during such actions to prevent detection. Of course the media won't let u know that. It's against the anti-doctor propaganda they have.

jaephoenix:
No we dont abandon patients mid operations during a strike. I'm sure u dont know some doctors work during strikes,especially the ones in neonatal and intensive care unit. We dont wear ward coats during such actions to prevent detection. Of course the media won't let u know that. It's against the anti-doctor propaganda they have.

Well, I heard you. Anything that happens in a hospital is attributed to doctors.
A friend of mine was taken to FMC in an ambulance because of the seriousness of his condition. They told the people that they should take him home because there was no space. No First aid, no treatment for someone in such situation. He was taken home by the same ambulance and abandoned to his fate.
Then 3 days after, the hospital sent them to bring him. He recover fully after treatment by the same hospital.
Can you imagine that.

EXPRESSSMAN:
Well, I heard you. Anything that happens in a hospital is attributed to doctors.
A friend of mine was taken to FMC in an ambulance because of the seriousness of his condition. They told the people that they should take him home because there was no space. No First aid, no treatment for someone in such situation. He was taken home by the same ambulance and abandoned to his fate.
Then 3 days after, the hospital sent them to bring him. He recover fully after treatment by the same hospital.
Can you imagine that.

U forgot or neglected to say the most important information....the diagnosis. What did the man have? They sent him home because he probably had a mild illness,so its not an emergency. Just because they brought him in an ambulance doesn't automatically translate to an emergency. If he had a serious life threatening case,they would have at least sent him to another hospital. The fact he was still alive days later without any intervention means he wasn't that sick.
I want to expunge this ihnora nce amongst NL that 'first aid' must be administered to every emergency case. Sometimes if a hospital is resource poor,either personnel,equipment or meds,the patient is best sent somewhere where he can receive attention. Lemme give example. A man comes with a road traffic accident and is unconscious and has fluid or blood coming out from his ear or nose. He most likely has a raised ICP from head injury. If a center doesn't have mannitol,the best thing is send that patient on his way to get a brain CT (non contrast) so as to commence management straight away. Keeping him in that resource poor center is counter productive. Hope this helps

jaephoenix:
U forgot or neglected to say the most important information....the diagnosis. What did the man have? They sent him home because he probably had a mild illness,so its not an emergency. Just because they brought him in an ambulance doesn't automatically translate to an emergency. If he had a serious life threatening case,they would have at least sent him to another hospital. The fact he was still alive days later without any intervention means he wasn't that sick.
I want to expunge this ihnora nce amongst NL that 'first aid' must be administered to every emergency case. Sometimes if a hospital is resource poor,either personnel,equipment or meds,the patient is best sent somewhere where he can receive attention. Lemme give example. A man comes with a road traffic accident and is unconscious and has fluid or blood coming out from his ear or nose. He most likely has a raised ICP from head injury. If a center doesn't have mannitol,the best thing is send that patient on his way to get a brain CT (non contrast) so as to commence management straight away. Keeping him in that resource poor center is counter productive. Hope this helps

Hmmm, my guy, N200k was used to charter an Ambulance and you said it could be mild sickness. When did we start to use Ambulances for mild sickness?
Anyway, the guy was rejected by other hospitals. It was an inter state movement. The doctors believe that the guy will die on the way so they recommend that he should be transported in an Ambulance. It was from Lagos to Owerri. When they got to Owerri and discovered that he was still alive, they took him to FMC Owerri. That's when the incident happened.

He developed the sickness suddenly. They said that his blood mixed with water in his body. That's the sickness. He was paralyzed and unconscious for days . That was his condition when the hospital turned him away. They could not go to another because they have been previously been rejected by others. But to God's glory the guy is full of life as at today.

EXPRESSSMAN:
Hmmm, my guy, N200k was used to charter an Ambulance and you said it could be mild sickness. When did we start to use Ambulances for mild sickness?
Anyway, the guy was rejected by other hospitals. It was an inter state movement. The doctors believe that the guy will die on the way so they recommend that he should be transported in an Ambulance. It was from Lagos to Owerri. When they got to Owerri and discovered that he was still alive, they took him to FMC Owerri. That's when the incident happened.

He developed the sickness suddenly. They said that his blood mixed with water in his body. That's the sickness. He was paralyzed and unconscious for days . That was his condition when the hospital turned him away. They could not go to another because they have been previously been rejected by others. But to God's glory the guy is full of life as at today.

I am a doctor, not just any but with 18 years experience. Patients abuse ambulance
About the index case,why should a patient be transported from Lagos to Owerri? Why didn't they take him to critical care hospitals in Lagos? I dont understand this blood mixing with water BS. Yes the doctors in Owerri were right in referring him cos there's nothing. So he was rejected cos of no bed space which is not the doctors fault. I wonder how u managed to blame doctors for that. We dont build,equipment or staff hospitals. Also i told you that the best options for some cases is immediate referral and not every case deserves a 'first aid'. This is one of them
And how does a god come in here? What did the god do?

jaephoenix:
I am a doctor, not just any but with 18 years experience. Patients abuse ambulance
About the index case,why should a patient be transported from Lagos to Owerri? Why didn't they take him to critical care hospitals in Lagos? I dont understand this blood mixing with water BS. Yes the doctors in Owerri were right in referring him cos there's nothing. So he was rejected cos of no bed space which is not the doctors fault. I wonder how u managed to blame doctors for that. We dont build,equipment or staff hospitals. Also i told you that the best options for some cases is immediate referral and not every case deserves a 'first aid'. This is one of them
And how does a god come in here? What did the god do?

You are asking how did God came in.. Some one that the doctors recommended to be transported in an ambulance because they believe that he could not survive the next one hour. But he lived to get to Owerri. Then at Owerri, he could not get any help again. He was abandoned in an unconscious state for 3 days before the hospital sent for him. Now you think that his survival was ordinary.
Meanwhile , the hospitals in Lagos kept rejecting him. That was why his people say that they should bring him to Owerri.
His survival was not a small matter, it was not kidney related but he went through dialysis for some months.
Now apart from Nigeria , do you think that a patient like that would be brought to the hospital in any country and they told them to take him back.
It could only happen in Nigeria.
Now you're defending the doctors saying they are not the one to provide bed and equipment.
What happens to making some alternative arrangements for his treatment until such a time a bed space would come out. What about doing some diagnostics for his case. Is 3 days not enough for someone in such situation to die. And from all the things that happened, you don't think that his survival for a great miracle.

EXPRESSSMAN:
You are asking how did God came in.. Some one that the doctors recommended to be transported in an ambulance because they believe that he could not survive the next one hour. But he lived to get to Owerri. Then at Owerri, he could not get any help again. He was abandoned in an unconscious state for 3 days before the hospital sent for him. Now you think that his survival was ordinary.
Meanwhile , the hospitals in Lagos kept rejecting him. That was why his people say that they should bring him to Owerri.
His survival was not a small matter, it was not kidney related but he went through dialysis for some months.
Now apart from Nigeria , do you think that a patient like that would be brought to the hospital in any country and they told them to take him back.
It could only happen in Nigeria.
Now you're defending the doctors saying they are not the one to provide bed and equipment.
What happens to making some alternative arrangements for his treatment until such a time a bed space would come out. What about doing some diagnostics for his case. Is 3 days not enough for someone in such situation to die. And from all the things that happened, you don't think that his survival for a great miracle.

First things first, ambulances are used for transport of LIVING humans who are critical. It contains equipment and drugs to resuscitate and maintain this sick folks. It's also manned by critical care personnel and emergency physicians. Obviously dead folks wont need all these. If your god actually works,why does he need doctors? Why does your god need the help of medicine to work? How can he create science and medicine and hand it over to fallible humans like me who can make mistakes and accidentally k!ll patients? Why did he make the healthcare very costly that some of his believers can't afford it? What's easier,praying and getting healed immediately OR being treated by fallible humans after paying huge amounts of money,and spending time?
Also the doctors said to take him to other facilities. Its not their fault hospitals are poorly equipped.
We dont reject patients. We simply refer. That is a lie Nigerians post to discredit doctors. If I cannot handle a case,I simply refer u. Most times the patient doesn't go where we refer them. I live in lagos. There are critical care facilities both private and government. Obviously the privates cost more. My own hospital take a deposit of 3m for Intensive Care. So if you have the money,u pay and we admit. And this is not all u pay,this is initial deposit. U may end up spending 6 or 7m. And u actually believe there are better hospitals in Owerri than Lagos? Lol 😆
Again. If he was brought with kidney disease and hes stable,he can be managed at home. Many people have kidney disease and are being managed on outpatient basis. It's not miraculous
When u say alternative arrangement, what exactly do u mean? When we tell u we can't take a case,its usually cos of bed space or lack of amenities or personnel. I dont really know which of the reasons the hospital had but for either of them,there is absolutely nothing we can do. If u think there is,let me know.

jaephoenix:
First things first, ambulances are used for transport of LIVING humans who are critical. It contains equipment and drugs to resuscitate and maintain this sick folks. It's also manned by critical care personnel and emergency physicians. Obviously dead folks wont need all these. If your god actually works,why does he need doctors? Why does your god need the help of medicine to work? How can he create science and medicine and hand it over to fallible humans like me who can make mistakes and accidentally k!ll patients? Why did he make the healthcare very costly that some of his believers can't afford it? What's easier,praying and getting healed immediately OR being treated by fallible humans after paying huge amounts of money,and spending time?
Also the doctors said to take him to other facilities. Its not their fault hospitals are poorly equipped.
We dont reject patients. We simply refer. That is a lie Nigerians post to discredit doctors. If I cannot handle a case,I simply refer u. Most times the patient doesn't go where we refer them. I live in lagos. There are critical care facilities both private and government. Obviously the privates cost more. My own hospital take a deposit of 3m for Intensive Care. So if you have the money,u pay and we admit. And this is not all u pay,this is initial deposit. U may end up spending 6 or 7m. And u actually believe there are better hospitals in Owerri than Lagos? Lol 😆
Again. If he was brought with kidney disease and hes stable,he can be managed at home. Many people have kidney disease and are being managed on outpatient basis. It's not miraculous
When u say alternative arrangement, what exactly do u mean? When we tell u we can't take a case,its usually cos of bed space or lack of amenities or personnel. I dont really know which of the reasons the hospital had but for either of them,there is absolutely nothing we can do. If u think there is,let me know.

Well, there are many things a doctor can do in such a situation, but first, let's understand this concept of God. God created human beings to be in absolute control of the earth. Just like Angels, demons and animals have their own domain. He created the medicine you are talking about. God sometimes, for his own purpose, intervenes in the affairs of man. Many doctors and scientists confirm this. So you don't ask why God didn't heal you. That's not a good question. I am not a religious person, but I believe in God and know that God intervenes in the affairs of man from time to time. It is not about religion. You don't need to go to church to know that God exist. Just look at your life and your environment. They will tell you that God exist.
And to your question, what I expect doctors to do under such a situation? Let me tell you it is not every aspect of medicine that involves giving drugs, injections or operations. The doctor's body language and handling of the situation in many cases, go a long way in the patient's healing and recovery.
When I was a kid, if they took us to a hospital, the doctor would check our tongue, mouth, nails and eyes before anything. But these days, when I took my children to the hospital, the doctor would be on his seat and only ask some questions and recommend a test. No physical touch on the child or examination. I used to feel very sad about their new method.
As I said before, it is only in Nigeria that a critically sick patient would be sent away because we value money more than human life. In other climes, they would have taken samples for examination, fluids and an assurance and message that the person is a human being and will get well. If you pass this kind of message through your action, the person will not die.

EXPRESSSMAN:
Well, there are many things a doctor can do in such a situation, but first, let's understand this concept of God. God created human beings to be in absolute control of the earth. Just like Angels, demons and animals have their own domain. He created the medicine you are talking about. God sometimes, for his own purpose, intervenes in the affairs of man. Many doctors and scientists confirm this. So you don't ask why God didn't heal you. That's not a good question. I am not a religious person, but I believe in God and know that God intervenes in the affairs of man from time to time. It is not about religion. You don't need to go to church to know that God exist. Just look at your life and your environment. They will tell you that God exist.
And to your question, what I expect doctors to do under such a situation? Let me tell you it is not every aspect of medicine that involves giving drugs, injections or operations. The doctor's body language and handling of the situation in many cases, go a long way in the patient's healing and recovery.
When I was a kid, if they took us to a hospital, the doctor would check our tongue, mouth, nails and eyes before anything. But these days, when I took my children to the hospital, the doctor would be on his seat and only ask some questions and recommend a test. No physical touch on the child or examination. I used to feel very sad about their new method.
As I said before, it is only in Nigeria that a critically sick patient would be sent away because we value money more than human life. In other climes, they would have taken samples for examination, fluids and an assurance and message that the person is a human being and will get well. If you pass this kind of message through your action, the person will not die.

You still didn't answer my question why god would create medicine and make it imperfect and costly. Just like a regular Christian,u dodged the question. When u answer the question, I'll know u r serious. And what has my life gotta do with the existence of god? Also cos some doctors talked about god doesn't mean it created medicine. So if Muslim doctors call on Allah, does it mean he created medicine too? Just answer the question.
We still touch and examine patients till tomorrow,especially if it warrants it. It's not all complaints that require exam. If you have certain complaints, we wont require invitations to examine u. Did you even read what I said earlier, I asked u what reason did they refer the patient,and u r here talking about running tests. If there was no bed space,where tf do u expect them to keep the patient for the tests? So r so he'll bent on blaming doctors,that u havent processed any of the questions or comments I made. Just like a typical Nigerian