₦airaland Forum

Wonderful, this is all I have to say.

Na so the country take don finish. Na to show u say it is over for Nigeria

TheMensch:
Ahoada

I don't understand

If them use this energy fight Boko boys we no go see insecurity 😂🤣

Daguccizgreat:
Tinubu is a disaster like no other

^^^

datola:
It is very foolhardy lumping so many security agents(Police, Navy, Army, Airforce, etc) together on a presidential motorcade.

^^^
The assignment isn't really the problem here. After all, they are required to work with one another in the normal course of business. But they can and do clash with one another in other security assignments - its just that this one was open for the whole world to see.

The problem is their volcanic indiscipline which they are no longer able to conceal with their usual air of unnecessary arrogance where civilians are concerned. They are simply unfit for purpose and those of us who have always pointed this out are now being vindicated.

Kobicove:
This is so very shameful

^^^
They have always been this way.

ravensckar:
Under President Tinubu, people now flagrantly disobey court orders. Now, even the armed forces are not left out of the madness. Fighting themselves in the full glare of the public? We've never had it bad in this country.

^^^
This has been their way - from the very beginning.

The leopard cannot change its spots.

1vandragon:
This is symptomatic of the civil-military leadership in Nigeria today.

The security forces know that the civilian leadership is more interested in vile politics, is indisciplined, corrupt and incompetent. So, the military leadership also reflects these qualities and it trickles down to the rank and file.

^^^
It took quite a while (page 2) for someone to go there...but here it is, folks.

Nigerian soldiers and naval ratings had a minor traffic accident (or something of that nature - its unclear what exactly) in their official vehicles - and they decided to do what they were trained to do by their superiors (come down and fight on the road, NURTW style).

Instead of laying the blame squarely where it belongs, you have chosen to blame civilians for this madness.

There were no civilians involved in this rubbish - they have no blame in this matter. It is very strange to throw this on them - unless you have other motives.

zenburster:
When you go on TikTok and you see military men in uniform, flashing cult signs,
Using cult slangs, see them live streaming and begging for gifts and money. Asking for updates from Yahoo boys.

What do you expect?

This is it

^^^
It always was in them. They were never what they claimed to be.

RONRIS:
This is so bad, fighting in the presence of civilians

^^^


Yet another one.

Leave civilians out of it. Civilians didn't cause the accident and they didn't ask anyone to come down from their government vehicles to fight on a government road.

Would it have been better if they fought without civilians being present? Would that have somehow made it easier to digest?

Daguccizgreat:
Tinubu is a disaster like no other

Where did you see Tinubu in the fight?

EmmyMaestro:
I don't understand

Then it's not

Fujiyama:
^^^
It took quite a while (page 2) for someone to go there...but here it is, folks.

Nigerian soldiers and naval ratings had a minor traffic accident (or something of that nature - its unclear what exactly) in their official vehicles - and they decided to do what they were trained to do by their superiors (come down and fight on the road, NURTW style).

Instead of laying the blame squarely where it belongs, you have chosen to blame civilians for this madness.

There were no civilians involved in this rubbish - they have no blame in this matter. It is very strange to throw this on them - unless you have other motives.

Do you read to understand at all?

I was very specific about civil-military leadership... You will do well to read up what civil-military leadership means.

stuffs2002:
Where did you see Tinubu in the fight?

May be you're the GCFR olofofo

1vandragon:
Do you read to understand at all?

^^^
Yes sir.

1vandragon:
I was very specific about civil-military leadership... You will do well to read up what civil-military leadership means.

^^^
No sir.

You were as clear as clear can be.

You described this country's civilian leadership in the most uncomplimentary terms possible. Which is fine, because what you said is true.

What is false is your claim that the military leadership 'reflects' these awful civilian traits (incompetence, corruption, indiscipline etc.) and has passed this down to the rank and file.

No.

The truth is that these negative traits were embedded in the military from the get go - and the rot originated from within the military itself - not from civilian interlopers.

They (military) always were this way and they must take responsibility for their shortcomings. This nonsense of blaming civilians for their own weaknesses as military personnel - has to stop.

Daguccizgreat:
May be you're the GCFR olofofo

Everything is 100% emotions and 0% logic
That is why no one takes you people serious politically because you people do not know how to play politics.


Irresponsible military men are fighting and you are quick to start insulting Tinubu just because you hate him so much

Fujiyama:
^^^
Yes sir.



^^^
No sir.

You were as clear as clear can be.

You described this country's civilian leadership in the most uncomplimentary terms possible. Which is fine, because what you said is true.

What is false is your claim that the military leadership 'reflects' these awful civilian traits (incompetence, corruption, indiscipline etc.) and have passed this down to the rank and file.

No.

The truth is that these negative traits were embedded in the military from the get go - and the rot originated from within the military itself - not from civilian interlopers.

They (military) always were this way and they must take responsibility for their shortcomings. This nonsense of blaming civilians for their own weaknesses as military personnel - has to stop.

Again, go and read what civil-military leadership is.

Who presently controls the military based on our system of governance?

Who is the CinC?

Who appoints the service chiefs?

Who appropriates funds for security services?

In whose convoy where the military personnel?

Who presently oversees the military?

Thus was not some random low level altercation. This was something that happened in the president's convoy. When has such ever happened?

If army and navy don't agree with each other the president should know there is a problem

1vandragon:
Again, go and read what civil-military leadership is.

^^^
I know what it is. Not sure what it adds to this discussion, but I know what it is.

1vandragon:
Who presently controls the military based on our system of governance?

Who is the CinC?

Who appoints the service chiefs?

Who appropriates funds for security services?

In whose convoy where the military personnel?

Who presently oversees the military?

^^^
Once again, I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion we are having. I engaged you because you said in very clear terms that civilian leaders have some undesirable traits - traits which the military leadership in turn has 'acquired' and passed on to its lower members. The problem is that this is simply not true.

There are some other comments on this thread which demonstrate the mindset that needs to be done away with: comments like ''military personnel shouldn't be found fighting in front of civilians"...as if the military are the adults in the room and civilians are impressionable children.

1vandragon:
Thus was not some random low level altercation. This was something that happened in the president's convoy. When has such ever happened?

^^^
It was bound to happen someday. The petty rivalry has always been there - it just never found expression in a public, high profile event like this presidential visit. This kind of behaviour is not new to this country's military people - it has always been part of them.

Remember the seaman who refused orders by an army brigadier to disarm on a parade ground some years ago? Some accounts of what happened specifically mentioned this inter-force rivalry as a major factor at play in that unfortunate incident. It is not a new thing.

Fujiyama:
^^^
I know what it is. Not sure what it adds to this discussion, but I know what it is.



^^^
Once again, I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion we are having. I engaged you because you said in very clear terms that civilian leaders have some undesirable traits - traits which the military leadership in turn has 'acquired' and passed on to its lower members. The problem is that this is simply not true.

There are some other comments on this thread which demonstrate the mindset that needs to be done away with: comments like ''military personnel shouldn't be found fighting in front of civilians'...as if the military are the adults in the room and civilians are impressionable children.



^^^
It was bound to happen someday. The petty rivalry has always been there - it just never found expression in such a public, high profile manner that this presidential visit represented. This kind of behaviour is not new to this country's military people - it has always been part of them.

Remember the seaman who refused orders by an army brigadier to disarm on a parade ground some years ago? Some accounts of what happened specifically mentioned this inter-force rivalry as a major factor at play. It is not a new thing.

From your response, you do not understand what civil-military LEADERSHIP means.

I also do not think you understand how bad it looks when security personnel in the president's convoy are fighting while on duty.

I cannot speak for others, but what makes your view correct and others wrong?

That you are unable to understand different perspectives to an issue does not mean your own perspective must be correct and others must align with your own perspective.

1vandragon:
From your response, you do not understand what civil-military LEADERSHIP means.

^^^


Ok.

1vandragon:
I also do not think you understand how bad it looks when security personnel in the president's convoy are fighting while on duty.

^^^
.

This is amusing.

My take on the matter is quite clear from my posts. You can easily refer to them.

1vandragon:
I cannot speak for others, but what makes your view correct and others wrong?

^^^
There are some matters or questions to which there are only right or wrong answers. There's no middle ground. This matter is one of them.

1vandragon:
That you are unable to understand different perspectives to an issue does not mean your own perspective must be correct and others must align with your own perspective.

^^^


This isn't a matter of understanding different 'perspectives'. Nor is it a matter of compelling others to align with my perspective. My perspective (whatever it may be) is completely irrelevant as far an objective truth is concerned.

Some things are black...or white. This matter is one of them. There are no shades of grey here. There is no nuance here.

This business of absolving the military of any responsibility for their very own shortcomings sometimes leads to ridiculous statements like that made by a former army chief (long retired) during the Buhari 'school certificate saga'. Alani Akinrinade actually said civilians were the reason why Buhari's school certificate went 'missing'.

That's what happens when people start to believe all human flaws originate from civilians.

Fujiyama:
^^^


Ok.



^^^
.

This is amusing.

My take on the matter is quite clear from my posts. You can easily refer to them.



^^^
There are some matters or questions to which there are only right or wrong answers. There's no middle ground. This matter is one of them.



^^^


This isn't a matter of understanding different 'perspectives'. Nor is it a matter of compelling others to align with my perspective. My perspective (whatever it may be) is completely irrelevant as far an objective truth is concerned.

Some things are black...or white. This matter is one of them. There are no shades of grey here. There is no nuance here.

This business of absolving the military of any responsibility for their very own shortcomings sometimes leads to ridiculous statements like that made by a former army chief (long retired) during the Buhari 'school certificate saga'. Alani Akinrinade actually said civilians were the reason why Buhari's school certificate went 'missing'.

That's what happens when people start to believe all human flaws originate from civilians.

I can conclude that you are arguing for arguing sake.

Why should I read your previous posts on this? You are the one following me are trying to insist on the position you do not understand.

When you understand what civil-military leadership is all about, then, maybe you can better situate your argument (whatever it may be).

The bottom line is that in a democracy, the military complex is significantly controlled and influenced by civil leadership.

stuffs2002:
Everything is 100% emotions and 0% logic
That is why no one takes you people serious politically because you people do not know how to play politics.


Irresponsible military men are fighting and you are quick to start insulting Tinubu just because you hate him so much

You people know how to play politics yet poverty is damaging your region. Dude stop being deluded

Daguccizgreat:
You people know how to play politics yet poverty is damaging your region. Dude stop being deluded

The poorest region in Nigeria is the south east
The most insecure part of Nigeria is the south east

stuffs2002:
The poorest region in Nigeria is the south east
The most insecure part of Nigeria is the south east

Lol.. You're an unserious human

Daguccizgreat:
Lol.. You're an unserious human

You hate the truth