₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
This guy is an unserious fellow. He claims that Hell is not synonymous to Hades because his own NiV uses Hades instead of Hell in Revelation 20:14. The funny thing is that he has a picture on this thread that shows that Jesus was reffering to Hell in Luke 16:23, 24 while his own NiV uses Hades🤣. I have been asking him to now explain why his picture is showing Hell and why his own NiV is showing Hades if Hades and Hell are not synonymous. He is just beating around the bush since morning.🤣

We are talking of meaning of words as we generally use them today and you're stuck on words used in a pictogram or used by a Bible translator!
And what's your point anyway? That there is no hell as the JW say or what?

MaxInDHouse:
When someone specifically mention the name of another person who isn't engaging in a discussion:
Know that he has learned a lot from the person in question he just doesn't want to admit it!🙂

Quite the opposite. You KNOW you've learnt a lot from yours truly. You still haven't told us what an eternal Lake of fire where souls are tormented for ever and ever is called as staated below

QuinQQ:
Quite the opposite. You KNOW you've learnt a lot from yours truly. You still haven't told us what an eternal Lake of fire where souls are tormented for ever and ever is called as staated below

I no dey teach you again.

If you don't know that the lake of fire means complete destruction after reading in the Bible that Death and Hell two things that are tied together were thrown there {Revelation 20:14} when the next chapter told you that death will no longer exist {Revelation 21:3-4} it simply means you are not sincere with yourself!😂

QuinQ:
So please explain this screenshot to us.

Book of life means there is a record before God regarding people who love studying His word {Malachi 3:16} so if someone's name is not found in that record such a person will be completely destroyed like Death and Hell! Revelation 20:14

QuinQQ:
And what's your point anyway? That there is no hell as the JW say or what?

We believe there is Hell but it simply means Grave a place of no activity! Ecclesiastes 9:10

QuinQQ:
We are talking of meaning of words as we generally use them today and you're stuck on words used in a pictogram or used by a Bible translator!
And what's your point anyway? That there is no hell as the JW say or what?

Don't be cunning. I am not asking you about meaning of words. You have told me here with your own evidence that "Hell" and "Hades" do not mean the same thing. So why is your Pictorial evidence on this platform contradicting your teaching by saying that Jesus reffered to Hell in Luke 16:23, 24?

Answer the question and stop beating around the bush.

MaxInDHouse:
Your church fathers misinterpreted that verse what Paul said is that anyone who has died has been acquainted of his sins {Romans 6:7} because the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

God never spoke of any other thing after the sinner is dead that is why none of you can say where Adam whose sin affected the whole world is today yet you believe sinners who were infected through Adamic sin must face another punishment after death.

Jeremiah 7:31 is not denying judgment or punishment. The scripture says:

“They have built the high places of Tophet… to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.”

The context is human sacrifice, specifically child sacrifice to false gods. GOD ALMIGHTIEST was condemning the wicked practice of people burning their children alive. The verse is saying HE never commanded Israel to commit such evil, nor did HE approve of that abomination.

Using Jeremiah 7:31 to claim GOD ALMIGHTIEST would never judge the wicked ignores many other scriptures where HE clearly speaks about final judgment.

The scripture says in Matthew 25:41:
“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

Revelation 20:15 says:
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

So Jeremiah 7:31 is about forbidden human sacrifice, not a denial of divine judgment. Condemning people for murdering children in pagan rituals is completely different from GOD ALMIGHTIEST judging sin righteously at the end.

Truthseeker10:
So why is your Pictorial evidence on this platform contradicting your teaching by saying that Jesus reffered to Hell in Luke 16:23, 24?

Because the maker of the pictorial and the translator of Luke 16 don't determine our language usage of today!
I hope u r not totaly dense, genius.
LANGUAGE IS BY USAGE!! A word means what vast majority of people take it to mean! In our Enflish Language usage of today Hell and Hades are not the same. See it below again then run along! Geez!

BURNING LIVING CREATURES IN FIRE is what the true God detests Sir!🙂

Newlight777:
Jeremiah 7:31 is not denying judgment or punishment. The scripture says:
“They have built the high places of Tophet… to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.”
The context is human sacrifice, specifically child sacrifice to false gods. GOD ALMIGHTIEST was condemning the wicked practice of people burning their children alive. The verse is saying HE never commanded Israel to commit such evil, nor did HE approve of that abomination.
Using Jeremiah 7:31 to claim GOD ALMIGHTIEST would never judge the wicked ignores many other scriptures where HE clearly speaks about final judgment.
The scripture says in Matthew 25:41:
“Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”
Revelation 20:15 says:
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
So Jeremiah 7:31 is about forbidden human sacrifice, not a denial of divine judgment. Condemning people for murdering children in pagan rituals is completely different from GOD ALMIGHTIEST judging sin righteously at the end.

MaxInDHouse:
BURNING LIVING CREATURES IN FIRE is what the true God detests Sir!🙂

If burning living creatures in fire is something THE TRUE GOD detests, then that should tell us something important about HIS nature. Jeremiah 7:31 says that burning sons and daughters in fire was something HE “commanded not, neither came it into HIS heart.” The scripture consistently reveals GOD ALMIGHTIEST as just, holy, and righteous, not cruel or sadistic.

Judgment in scripture is real, but we must be careful not to project human traditions into the text beyond what is actually written. Many people inherited ideas about eternal torture without examining all the passages carefully in context.

THE LORD takes no pleasure in wickedness or destruction. HIS desire is repentance, restoration, truth, and life.

God's highest form of judging is death! Romans 6:23
Not roasting living creatures!

Newlight777:
If burning living creatures in fire is something THE TRUE GOD detests, then that should tell us something important about HIS nature. Jeremiah 7:31 says that burning sons and daughters in fire was something HE “commanded not, neither came it into HIS heart.” The scripture consistently reveals GOD ALMIGHTIEST as just, holy, and righteous, not cruel or sadistic.
Judgment in scripture is real, but we must be careful not to project human traditions into the text beyond what is actually written. Many people inherited ideas about eternal torture without examining all the passages carefully in context. THE LORD takes no pleasure in wickedness or destruction. HIS desire is repentance, restoration, truth, and life.

MaxInDHouse:
BURNING LIVING CREATURES IN FIRE is what the true God detests Sir!🙂

Newlight777:
If burning living creatures in fire is something THE TRUE GOD detests, then that should tell us something important about HIS nature. Jeremiah 7:31 says that burning sons and daughters in fire was something HE “commanded not, neither came it into HIS heart.” The scripture consistently reveals GOD ALMIGHTIEST as just, holy, and righteous, not cruel or sadistic.

Judgment in scripture is real, but we must be careful not to project human traditions into the text beyond what is actually written. Many people inherited ideas about eternal torture without examining all the passages carefully in context.

THE LORD takes no pleasure in wickedness or destruction. HIS desire is repentance, restoration, truth, and life.

So how does your theses jive with these quotations from Revelation 20 below, and the pictograph quotations?
The first quote says which humans will be thrown in the Lake. The second quote says what happens in the Lake.

QuinQ:
So how does your theses jive with these quotations from Revelation 20 below, and the pictograph quotations?
The first quote says which humans will be thrown in the Lake. The second quote says what happens in the Lake.

Since you don't believe what God's word said about His capital punishment:
The wages of sin is death how can you understand Idioms?
Death, Hell and evildoers will be thrown into the lake of fire {Revelations 20:14-15} which means all of them will longer exist {Revelation 21:3-4} what you find difficult to grasp now is how they will be tormented forever.
Even if i tell you you won't believe since you are bent on the idea that God must roast living creatures in fire!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Since you don't believe what God's word said about His capital punishment:
The wages of sin is death how can you understand Idioms?
Death, Hell and evildoers will be thrown into the lake of fire {Revelations 20:14-15} which means all of them will longer exist {Revelation 21:3-4} what you find difficult to grasp now is how they will be tormented forever.
Even if i tell you you won't believe since you are bent on the idea that God must roast living creatures in fire!🙂

Yes, please go ahead and educate me how people who no longer exist will be tormented forever and ever.
While at it also reconcile your "no longer exists" with verses in the screenshot below

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

QuinQ:
Yes, please go ahead and educate me how people who no longer exist will be tormented forever and ever.
While at it also reconcile your "no longer exists" with verses in the screenshot below.

When you think of Noah's generation what comes to your mind?

@ Matthew 24:36-39 Jesus talked about Noah's generation as if they are still being drowned in the flood.

When talking about Sodom and Gomorrah what comes to your mind?

It's like the fire is still falling on those two cities. So all those evildoers who are destroyed will continue to be remembered each time we talk about them and how they were destroyed.
Generations to come will continue to hear the stories of how all these people from the destruction of Noah's generation, Sodom and Gomorrah, Pharaoh with his armies and evildoers that perished with Satan. Survivors into God's new world will never ever forget them!

MaxInDHouse:
When you think of Noah's generation what comes to your mind?

@ Matthew 24:36-39 Jesus talked about Noah's generation as if they are still being drowned in the flood.

When talking about Sodom and Gomorrah what comes to your mind?

It's like the fire is still falling on those two cities. So all those evildoers who are destroyed will continue to be remembered each time we talk about them and how they were destroyed.
Generations to come will continue to hear the stories of how all these people from the destruction of Noah's generation, Sodom and Gomorrah, Pharaoh with his armies and evildoers that perished with Satan. Survivors into God's new world will never ever forget them!

😅🤣😂
You know you're lying

It is one thing to leave what the Bible said without comment and simply believe what makes sense to you. It is quite another to lie about what the Bible said.
Revelation actually ends with that warning. See it below.
It also makes clear u don't worship angels - so Jesus can't be Angel Michael. Jesus also says He is "The Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." If that's not God, please what is??

QuinQ:
😅🤣😂
You know you're lying

Thinking of tormenting living creatures has never occurred to the Bible God! Jeremiah 7:31
So what is written in the Bible book of Revelations is not meant to be taken literally that is what God told Daniel:

Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. Daniel 12:10

Despite your teachings of tormenting living creatures how many members of your churches have strong faith in Christ like Jehovah's Witnesses?

We don't believe God will roast people yet we are the only group doing the work with all our hearts.

So that's enough to tell you where the UNDERSTANDING of God's word is!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Thinking of tormenting living creatures has never occurred to the Bible God! Jeremiah 7:31
So what is written in the Bible book of Revelations is not meant to be taken literally that is what God told Daniel:

Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. Daniel 12:10

Despite your teachings of tormenting living creatures how many members of your churches have strong faith in Christ like Jehovah's Witnesses?

We don't believe God will roast people yet we are the only group doing the work with all our hearts.

So that's enough to tell you where the UNDERSTANDING of God's word is!🙂

Like I said before, it's okay to believe what makes sense to you without commenting on or twisting what the Bible said. It is quite another thing to go about LYING and TWISTING about what the Bible said. Example, believe a loving God would not have hell - but don’t LIE that the Bible said there is no hell. Another example, the Bible clearly says don't make any images. Catholic and other churches make images - but you don't see them lying or twisting that the Bible doesn't say what it clearly says!

You have many schools of thought that claims they are interpreting God's word for their followers.
Jesus said:

By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

So if any group is LYING about God's word regarding how they interpreted it you can't know if you reject Jesus' wise counsel to look out for what that group or religion produces out of people they gather.🙂

QuinQ:
Like I said before, it's okay to believe what makes sense to you without commenting on or twisting what the Bible said. It is quite another thing to go about LYING and TWISTING about what the Bible said. Example, believe a loving God would not have hell - but don’t LIE that the Bible said there is no hell. Another example, the Bible clearly says don't make any images. Catholic and other churches make images - but you don't see them lying or twisting that the Bible doesn't say what it clearly says!

MaxInDHouse:
You have many schools of thought that claims they are interpreting God's word for their followers.
Jesus said:

By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

So if any group is LYING about God's word regarding how they interpreted it you can't know if you reject Jesus' wise counsel to look out for what that group or religion produces out of people they gather.🙂

That has nothing to do with lying about what the Bible says. The Pope may be the holiest and most upright person on earth but if he says the Bible says to bow to graven images, that's a LIE. One thing has nothing to do with the other. A lie is a lie regardless of how righteous or holy the person or group telling it happens to be!

Jesus said it's by their fruits! Matthew 7:16

So you can't know whose interpretation is a lie when you ignore Jesus' wise counsel.
Those teaching you what God never had in mind as they don't have the spirit of God to interpret the Bible are the liars not those producing the FRUIT of faith.
That's what you failed to understand!🙂

QuinQ:
That has nothing to do with lying about what the Bible says. The Pope may be the holiest and most upright person on earth but if he says the Bible says to bow to graven images, that's a LIE. One thing has nothing to do with the other. A lie is a lie regardless of how righteous or holy the person or group telling it happens to be!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said it's by their fruits! Matthew 7:16

So you can't know whose interpretation is a lie when you ignore Jesus' wise counsel.
Those teaching you what God never had in mind as they don't have the spirit of God to interpret the Bible are the liars not those producing the FRUIT of faith.
That's what you failed to understand!🙂

Not everything needs interpretation.
The Pope is a very holy and upright man who has devoted all his life to God. That is his "fruit'. Still, if he interpretes the Bible to say to bow to graven images, that's still a LIE!
So also with JW saying the Bible says there's no lake of fire of eternal tirment. A lie is a LIE - regardless of what fruits you or your group happens to be producing!

QuinQ:
Not everything needs interpretation.
The Pope is a very holy and upright man who has devoted all his life to God. That is his "fruit'. Still, if he interpretes the Bible to say to bow to graven images, that's still a LIE!

You have repeated the highlighted i thought you were joking but it seems you are serious about it.
Please to which God is a Roman Catholic Pope devoted?🙂

Ọmọ Roman Catholic Pope are pagans o if you don't know it's time to know.

Because they carry the Bible doesn't make them worshipers of the Bible God as long as they worship images they are pagans according to the Bible! Exodus 20:1-3

QuinQ:
So also with JW saying the Bible says there's no lake of fire of eternal tirment. A lie is a LIE - regardless of what fruits you or your group happens to be producing!

Are you talking about the meaning of Lake of fire or if there is nothing like that?
Come on JWs believe there is like of fire but it means something totally different from what you people think!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
You have repeated the highlighted i thought you were joking but it seems you are serious about it.
Please to which God is a Roman Catholic Pope devoted?🙂

Ọmọ Roman Catholic Pope are pagans o if you don't know it's time to know.

Because they carry the Bible doesn't make them worshipers of the Bible God as long as they worship images they are pagans according to the Bible! Exodus 20:1-3

Any mam who eschews the world and even marriage and devotes his life entirely to the service of God and is so without blemish that he was voted Pope is an upright man with good "fruits"!
Catholics have exppained they don't worship the images but what the images represent. And they only have those representations because most human beings are very visual and find it hard to worship what they can't visualize.
But anyway what has this to do with "fruits"?

QuinQ:
Any mam who eschews the world and even marriage and devotes his life entirely to the service of God and is so without blemish that he was voted Pope is an upright man with good "fruits"!
Catholics have exppained they don't worship the images but what the images represent. And they only have those representations because most human beings are very visual and find it hard to worship what they can't visualize.

God's commandments says:
“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me," Exodus 20:4-5
Catholics makes images: offense number one.
Catholics bow to images: offense number two
Yet you want to swallow their excuses shey?🙂

QuinQ:
But anyway what has this to do with "fruits"?

Jesus knew that it will be difficult for people like you to IDENTIFY the true worshipers of God since you don't know the meaning of symbolic terms used in God's word.
So to help you he said instead of arguing over words {2Corinthians 3:6} written in the Bible watch out for those producing the FRUIT of faith. Matthew 7:16-18

In Jesus' day the religious leaders said Jesus was lying just as you are saying now because they don't understand God's word. Yet none of them could produce a group doing what God foretold His worshipers will do when the Messiah is around!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
God's commandments says:
“You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me," Exodus 20:4-5
Catholics makes images: offense number one.
Catholics bow to images: offense number two
Yet you want to swallow their excuses shey?🙂

Jesus knew that it will be difficult for people like you to IDENTIFY the true worshipers of God since you don't know the meaning of symbolic terms used in God's word.
So to help you he said instead of arguing over words {2Corinthians 3:6} written in the Bible watch out for those producing the FRUIT of faith. Matthew 7:16-18

In Jesus' day the religious leaders said Jesus was lying just as you are saying now because they don't understand God's word. Yet none of them could produce a group doing what God foretold His worshipers will do when the Messiah is around!🙂

Yet almost all churches have crosses.
God's commandments also say:
Remember Saturday to keep it holy. On that day you must rest and do no work.
Plus the other 613 commandments.
Besides, suppose your JW leaders interprete tomorrow that you'd start having images, does that mean you have stopped producing good "fruits"?

QuinQ:
Yet almost all churches have crosses.
God's commandments also say:
Remember Saturday to keep it holy. On that day you must rest and do no work.

You never studied the Bible you only joined a religion that called themselves church of Christ.
Crosses are signs of paganism and the Sabbath was given to Israelites only it's not for Christians.
If you want to know the laws affecting Christianity check what the first century disciples of Christ held seriously.

QuinQ:
Plus the other 613 commandments.
Besides, suppose your JW leaders interprete tomorrow that you'd start having images, does that mean you have stopped priducing good "fruits"?

The use of images is not just a law but principle.
God commanded His worshipers not to use images because they don't need to see an image of Him to know that He is with them.
So if you enter any of our Kingdom Halls you can't see a single image.

And as for the fruit of faith that God foretold about His worshipers in the last days read the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3 any religion that's not meeting up with that criteria is fake!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
You never studied the Bible you only joined a religion that called themselves church of Christ.
Crosses are signs of paganism and the Sabbath was given to Israelites only it's not for Christians.
If you want to know the laws affecting Christianity check what the first century disciples of Christ held seriously.

The use of images is not just a law but principle.
God commanded His worshipers not to use images because they don't need to see an image of Him to know that He is with them.
So if you enter any of our Kingdom Halls you can't see a single image.

And as for the fruit of faith that God foretold about His worshipers in the last days read the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3 any religion that's not meeting up with that criteria is fake!🙂

You are the one who never actually read and contemplate the Bible for yourself but rely entierly on your leaders interpretation of the day!
Sabbath was instituted at creation when God rested on the seventh day and blessed it (Genesis 2:2-3). It is a universal, creational ordinance for humanity and predates Israel by thousands of years.
Until Abraham no one was Jewish (Genesis 11:26).
Jesus honored the Sabbath by keeping it every week (Luke 4:16).
The disciples kept it (Acts 18:4, 11; 16:13).
It will be kept in heaven and the new earth (Isaiah 66:22-23).
The Bible presents an unbroken cycle of Sabbath observance from man’s creation to the earth made new.
The ONLY reason you observe Sunday as Sabbath is ROME, no other reason!
History records some Christians kept the pagan worship day (Sunday) in Rome and other places where the church was compromising to escape persecution and to maintain membership. As the church grew in political power it officially sanctioned Sunday keeping instead of the Sabbath. And infact today Popes and the Catholic Church point to success of Sunday Sabbath as proof that their authority and tradition are superior to the plain teachings of the Scriptures!

This is really funny walahi talahi!🙂

OK because God said He rested on the seventh day He commanded people also to do the same before Israelites were chosen shey?
Please show me where God mention the Sabbath before the time Israel o!🙂

QuinQ:
You are the one who never actually read and contemplate the Bible for yourself but rely entierly on your leaders interpretation of the day!
Sabbath was instituted at creation when God rested on the seventh day and blessed it (Genesis 2:2-3). It is a universal, creational ordinance for humanity and predates Israel by thousands of years.
Until Abraham no one was Jewish (Genesis 11:26).
Jesus honored the Sabbath by keeping it every week (Luke 4:16).
The disciples kept it (Acts 18:4, 11; 16:13).
It will be kept in heaven and the new earth (Isaiah 66:22-23).
The Bible presents an unbroken cycle of Sabbath observance from man’s creation to the earth made new.
The ONLY reason you observe Sunday as Sabbath is ROME, no other reason!
History records some Christians kept the pagan worship day (Sunday) in Rome and other places where the church was compromising to escape persecution and to maintain membership. As the church grew in political power it officially sanctioned Sunday keeping instead of the Sabbath. And infact today Popes and the Catholic Church point to success of Sunday Sabbath as proof that their authority and tradition are superior to the plain teachings of the Scriptures!

MaxInDHouse:
This is really funny walahi talahi!🙂

OK because God said He rested on the seventh day He commanded people also to do the same before Israelites were chosen shey?
Please show me where God mention the Sabbath before the time Israel o!🙂

You are the one roaringly funny!😂😅🤣
Please show us where God mentioned thou shall not kill before the time of Israel or any of the 613 commandments for that matter. Better yet, show us where Sabbath was abolished or stated to be only for Jews - bearing in mind the Lord said he came to fulfill the Law not abolish it!

So in a nutshell you fabricated what you said there was no time God asked people to keep any Sabbath before the time of Israelites entering the promise land!🙂

QuinQ:
You are the one roaringly funny!😂😅🤣
Please show us where God mentioned thou shall not kill before the time of Israel or any of the 613 commandments for that matter. Better yet, show us where Sabbath was abolished or stated to be only for Jews - bearing in mind the Lord said he came to fulfill the Law not abolish it

MaxInDHouse:
So in a nutshell you fabricated what you said there was no time God asked people to keep any Sabbath before the time of Israelites entering the promise land!🙂

My friend there was no time God asked people to keep any of the other laws neither. God's laws were in effect right from creation. That some were later given to Moses in written form doesn't mean that's when they started.
You still haven't told us where Sabbath was abolished or stated to be only for Jews.