₦airaland Forum

R

Kobojunkie:
I already informed you that I am not here to endlessly debate anyone's private delusions regarding what is clearly stated in the texts. 😒

You are the one who is ignorant and I need to cure it, so that you can leave the dark side( and come to the light side...

You are asking for the "US" in Genesis
Let me explain.

MAN= body made from the dust of the earth
Spirit from the breath of God.

So the us is God our father and mother earth..

When man expires , in he body is buried so that it can return back to the earth and the spirit returns to God who gave it. See Ecclesiastes 12:7
So my friend there was never any need for the fictitious character called Jesus.

sonmvayina:
R➜You are the one who is ignorant and I need to cure it, so that you can leave the dark side( and come to the light side...
You are asking for the "US" in Genesis Let me explain. MAN= body made from the dust of the earth Spirit from the breath of God.
So the us is God our father and mother earth..

I already preinformed you that I am not here to endlessly debate anyone's private delusions regarding what is clearly stated in the texts. 😒

Kobojunkie:
I already preinformed you that I am not here to endlessly debate anyone's private delusions regarding what is clearly stated in the texts. 😒

What is stated in the text? You just take text out of its proper context and runaway with it as if you have found the philosophers stone.

sonmvayina:
➜What is stated in the text? You just take text out of its proper context and runaway with it as if you have found the philosophers stone.

Look who's talking! 😒

AntiChristian:
I know you said! God's nature is ambigous from the Bible. It is inexplicable. But God tried to explain Himself everywhere in the old testament!
He said He was alone in Nehemiah 9:6, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 45:5 - You said it was a lie, God has son and spirit. He is not alone! Why can't God be straight-forward and simply say I am 3 in 1, the father , son and spirit. My son will come as a man later....If God need sons why would He need to have just one and not more? Why would He opt for trinity and more than 3?

The John 14:9 verse you quoted is just because Jesus was a messenger, he was sent by God. So seeing the messenger meant seeing the one who sent him! - John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Jesus is the son of God! Jesus again is the father! But Jesus called the father the ONLY TRUE GOD in John 17:3. Which means Jesus is no God at all.

It is even clear Jesus had a God from the Bible!

You miss the most fundamental human question: how can God have a Son without a wife??
And how can Christ say "open your heart and I will come in"?
While at it, also tell us who Allah was praying to!

Jesus identifies himself with titles, descriptions, and actions that are uniquely ascribed to God.
He identifies himself with absolute deity and deliberately applies Old Testament unshared divine titles, eternal descriptions, and sovereign actions exclusively reserved for God the Father alone! Like: "The Alpha and the Omega / The First and the Last." Jesus claims the eternal, all-encompassing titles that God the Father uses to describe His absolute sovereignty over creation and history (Revelation 1:8, 1:17, 22:13).

Jesus reveals Himself as the one who "is and was and is to come," directly adopting the description of Almighty God {Revelation 1:8}.
"King of Kings and Lord of Lords" written on His robe, Jesus bears the supreme, unshared title of ultimate authority over all earthly rulers and spiritual forces (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus asserts that He alone "searches minds and hearts," a power explicitly reserved for God in the Old Testament (Revelation 2:23; cf. Jeremiah 17:10).

By taking the title "the First and the Last, and the living one" who was dead but is alive forever, Jesus assumes the eternal, uncreated nature of God, the eternal living one {Revelation 1:18, 2:8}.

Jesus holds the keys of Death and Hades. He exercises supreme, sovereign authority over the ultimate realms of the afterlife, a power that only the Creator possesses (Revelation 1:18).
He identifies Himself as "the beginning and the end," identifying Himself as the origin and consummation of all things (Revelation 22:13), and receiving the universal praise and adoration reserved only for God! (Revelation 5:11-14).

Kobojunkie:
1. Genesis 1 vs 26 - 27 clearly states that man was made in the image of the Us/Our, which is composed in the image of the Father.

AntiChristian:
Is Jesus EVER the ONLY TRUE GOD?[/color][/size]

The above actually does say he is the only true God, but like I've said countless times. God is not describable in human terms

sonmvayina:
Have you actually read does passages yourself or you are just vomiting what you heard your pastors say?
Isaiah 7 is about a war. Pointing to a pregnant woman and saying she will soon give birth is not a prophecy.The actual prophecy is in verse 16.



Noo, not the Bible. But the entire so called New testament.

You need to read those passages in context, stop taking them in isolation. When you do, you will clearly see that there never was anything concerning Jesus there.

So you're saying none of those prophesies have been fulfilled, that the prophets were lying?
Is that what you're saying?
Because if you remove Jesus they'd all remain unfulfilled!

Kobojunkie:
Look who's talking! 😒

This is the very next chapter, that is Genesis 1;27
27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

There is no "US" there again nah, just a personal pronoun.

Mouuuuugwuuuuuu.com

QuinQ:
So you're saying none of those prophesies have been fulfilled, that the prophets were lying?
Is that what you're saying?
Because if you remove Jesus they'd all remain unfulfilled!

God promised the Jews a Messiah(anointed king) that will bring peace between them and their neighbors. He will end all wars and any form of oppression. And 6 other messianic prophecies. That had still not happened, so they are still waiting.
The Romans learnt about the idea and created Jesus Christ and said he will fulfill those prophecies at the second coming. But need flash, there was NEVER any second coming arrangement anywhere....
They are still waiting.....

sonmvayina:
God promised the Jews a Messiah(anointed king) that will bring peace between them and their neighbors. He will end all wars and any form of oppression. And 6 other messianic prophecies. That had still not happened, so they are still waiting.
The Romans learnt about the idea and created Jesus Christ and said he will fulfill those prophecies at the second coming. But need flash, there was NEVER any second coming arrangement anywhere....
They are still waiting.....

Lie. Second coming is entirely New Testament.
Once again, are you saying the OT prophets were lying?

QuinQ:
Lie. Second coming is entirely New Testament.
Once again, are you saying the OT prophets were lying?

Got this from Gemini Ai

In Judaism, the Messiah (Mashiach) is not a divine figure, but a mortal, human leader from the line of King David. According to tradition—most famously outlined by Maimonides (Rambam)—the Messiah will accomplish specific, physical goals to inaugurate the Messianic Age.
Here are the six primary prophetic criteria the Messiah must fulfill
1. Gather the Exiles: The Messiah will ingather all Jewish people to the Land of Israel.
2. Rebuild the Temple: He will reconstruct the Third Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount.
3. Fight God's Battles: He will win wars against the enemies of Israel and restore national sovereignty.
4. Restore Torah Observance: He will guide the Jewish people back to full observance of the Torah and its commandments.
5. Usher in Universal Peace: He will bring about a permanent era of global peace where war, famine, and hatred cease.
6. Unite Humanity in Knowing God: He will bring all of mankind to know, worship, and serve the one God of Israel.


Which of these did Jesus fulfill??

QuinQ:
Lie. Second coming is entirely New Testament.
Once again, are you saying the OT prophets were lying?

Truth keeps changing. For instance, atoms were not know In the past but they existed. Now there is an explanation for it.
You just need to experience things to be able to prove it.

QuinQ:
Lie. Second coming is entirely New Testament.
Once again, are you saying the OT prophets were lying?

Second coming is a Christian apology for Jesus not fulfilling any messianic prophecies.

RealityKings1:
➜Truth keeps changing. For instance, atoms were not know In the past but they existed. Now there is an explanation for it.
You just need to experience things to be able to prove it.

It's not the truth that keeps changing, though. Rather, it is human wisdom/wisdom that does. 😒

Jesus is the Christian god....

sonmvayina:
Got this from Gemini Ai

In Judaism, the Messiah (Mashiach) is not a divine figure, but a mortal, human leader from the line of King David. According to tradition—most famously outlined by Maimonides (Rambam)—the Messiah will accomplish specific, physical goals to inaugurate the Messianic Age.
Here are the six primary prophetic criteria the Messiah must fulfill
1. Gather the Exiles: The Messiah will ingather all Jewish people to the Land of Israel.
2. Rebuild the Temple: He will reconstruct the Third Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount.
3. Fight God's Battles: He will win wars against the enemies of Israel and restore national sovereignty.
4. Restore Torah Observance: He will guide the Jewish people back to full observance of the Torah and its commandments.
5. Usher in Universal Peace: He will bring about a permanent era of global peace where war, famine, and hatred cease.
6. Unite Humanity in Knowing God: He will bring all of mankind to know, worship, and serve the one God of Israel.


Which of these did Jesus fulfill??

So who has fulfilled them? Who has come closer to fulfilling them than Jesus Christ (once you realize it refers to the spiritual NOT the physical. Spiritual Jews)

Kobojunkie:
It's not the truth that keeps changing, though. Rather, it is human wisdom/wisdom that does. 😒

You got it right, our conception of truth keeps changing as the wisdom comes

sonmvayina:
Second coming is a Christian apology for Jesus not fulfilling any messianic prophecies.

So why were you citing it as being in OT?

QuinQ:
So who has fulfilled them? Who has come closer to fulfilling them than Jesus Christ (once you realize it refers to the spiritual NOT the physical. Spiritual Jews)

The Messiah has not yet come. When he comes you will know.
No more wars and oppression
Universal knowledge of God

Those has not yet happened. So the Jews are still waiting. The fact that he has not come does not means I should worship a man as god. That is idolatry.

Lol to the bold

QuinQ:
So why were you citing it as being in OT?

I said it was never there....read again..

sonmvayina:
The Messiah has not yet come. When he comes you will know.
No more wars and oppression
Universal knowledge of God

Those has not yet happened. So the Jews are still waiting. The fact that he has not come does not means I should worship a man as god. That is idolatry.

Lol to the bold

sonmvayina:
I said it was never there....read again..

Ok, but NONE of the prophesies have been fulfilled if you remove Jesus Christ. The prophesies were not only about coming of the Messiah, there were details about him which Jesus fulfilled and even pepple there acknowledged that. But Jesus turned out not to be Messiah as they understood but God himself!
It's been thousands of years, are you saying the prophets lied??

QuinQ:
Ok, but NONE of the prophesies have been fulfilled if you remove Jesus Christ. The prophesies were not only about coming of the Messiah, there were details about him which Jesus fulfilled and even pepple there acknowledged that. But Jesus turned out not to be Messiah as they understood but God himself!
It's been thousands of years, are you saying the prophets lied??

Which prophecies?
I gave the 6 prophecies that the Messiah must fulfil, in short that is how they will recognize him.

Mention one of the details? Please endeavor to read the verse in context rather than isolate it. It won't make sense like that.

QuinQ:
You miss the most fundamental human question: how can God have a Son without a wife??
And how can Christ say "open your heart and I will come in"?
While at it, also tell us who Allah was praying to!

That's not actually the most fundamental human question. The most fundamental human question should be why does God need a son to exist? A creation need offspring to inherit them when they die. At least to carry on their legacy, family line, etc. Why does your God need a son? Can the father save man without the son existing?

Jesus identifies himself with titles, descriptions, and actions that are uniquely ascribed to God.
He identifies himself with absolute deity and deliberately applies Old Testament unshared divine titles, eternal descriptions, and sovereign actions exclusively reserved for God the Father alone! Like: "The Alpha and the Omega / The First and the Last." Jesus claims the eternal, all-encompassing titles that God the Father uses to describe His absolute sovereignty over creation and history (Revelation 1:8, 1:17, 22:13).

This is laughable. Wasn't Adam created in the image of God in the first place? Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods (Elohim)’? John 10:34. If humans were called Elohim so why not Jesus? Does that mean humans are Yahweh too?

Jesus reveals Himself as the one who "is and was and is to come," directly adopting the description of Almighty God {Revelation 1:8}.
"King of Kings and Lord of Lords" written on His robe, Jesus bears the supreme, unshared title of ultimate authority over all earthly rulers and spiritual forces (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus asserts that He alone "searches minds and hearts," a power explicitly reserved for God in the Old Testament (Revelation 2:23; cf. Jeremiah 17:10).

By taking the title "the First and the Last, and the living one" who was dead but is alive forever, Jesus assumes the eternal, uncreated nature of God, the eternal living one {Revelation 1:18, 2:8}.

Jesus holds the keys of Death and Hades. He exercises supreme, sovereign authority over the ultimate realms of the afterlife, a power that only the Creator possesses (Revelation 1:18).
He identifies Himself as "the beginning and the end," identifying Himself as the origin and consummation of all things (Revelation 22:13), and receiving the universal praise and adoration reserved only for God! (Revelation 5:11-14).

The above actually does say he is the only true God, but like I've said countless times. God is not describable in human terms

You see, this conversation will never end as you are already infected with the trinitarian virus!

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come— the Almighty. Revelation 1:8.

...Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven Spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, Revelations 1:4-5.

The Alpha and Omega is clear defined from the context of the verse Revelation 1:4-5 as not Jesus. Jesus was mentioned later. God is the Almighty not Jesus.

Kobojunkie:
1. Rubbish! " Let us make man in our image DOES NOT point to one. It could point to one true God, as Jesus Christ put it in John 17, but not just one entity. 😒

2. If Jesus Christ of Israel, the Eternal Life and Truth of YHWH, told you that YHWH is the only True God. Does that in some way diminish the fact that Jesus Christ of Israel shares the very essence of YHWH -- godhood? If the Spirit of YHWH is not YHWH himself, does this in some way diminish the fact that the Spirit of YHWH shares of the very essence of YHWH--- godhood?😒

Both are subject to YHWH, though they share essence with YHWH; YHWH is the only true God. The Prophets all recognized and accepted this fact since they all accepted the message of Genesis chapters 1 through 3. 😒

You love playing with words!

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. Gen 1:27. You can see the singular "he" and "his" being used here for God. This simply means one person. Otherwise, it should have been - So God created mankind in their own image, in the image of God they created them; male and female they created them.

God's image is singular! Three persons will never have a singular image!

And yes! If Jesus said YHWH is the ONLY TRUE GOD, then Jesus and the Spirit are false Gods! There can only be one true God. Except that statement is a lie! And no Prophet recognise this without ambiguity especially before Jesus. This can only be done by reading your trinitarian ideology into the text of the Bible!

AntiChristian:
That's not actually the most fundamental human question. The most fundamental human question should be why does God need a son to exist? A creation need offspring to inherit them when they die. At least to carry on their legacy, family line, etc. Why does your God need a son? Can the father save man without the son existing?

This is laughable. Wasn't Adam created in the image of God in the first place? Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods (Elohim)’? John 10:34. If humans were called Elohim so why not Jesus? Does that mean humans are Yahweh too?



You see, this conversation will never end as you are already infected with the trinitarian virus!

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come— the Almighty. Revelation 1:8.

...Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven Spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, Revelations 1:4-5.

The Alpha and Omega is clear defined from the context of the verse Revelation 1:4-5 as not Jesus. Jesus was mentioned later. God is the Almighty not Jesus.

God does not NEED a Son. God has a Son and has always had a Son since eternity. It is like asking, "why is God the way he is, why can't he be another way?"

As for the rest, you are being deceptive and you know it. The following is from Revelation 22 VERBATIM. Who do you think is talking here:

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End....

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”..
.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

QuinQ:
God does not NEED a Son. God has a Son and has always had a Son since eternity. It is like asking, "why is God the way he is, why can't he be another way?"

He doesn't need a son yet he has a son and holy Spirit to help him? God never said he had a son till trinitarian creed was perfected in 325AD and further in 381AD. Or do you have a verse from God that said he had a son and also a spirit and both are Gods within himself? Show us the verse before Jesus came!

As for the rest, you are being deceptive and you know it. The following is from Revelation 22 VERBATIM. Who do you think is talking here:

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End....

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”..
.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

Isn't this clear from Rev 21:5 that the one "who sits on the throne" is the Alpha and the Omega?

The person speaking in Rev 21:7 claims to be God and consistently throughout the book of Revelations, God is never the same as Jesus/Lamb!

And in Rev 21:7 - says the believers will be his son. They will be God's sons not Jesus's sons!

AntiChristian:
➜You love playing with words!
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. Gen 1:27.[/b] You can see the singular "he" and "his" being used here for God. This simply means one person. Otherwise, it should have been - So God created mankind in their own image, in the image of God they created them; male and female they created them.
➜ God's image is singular! Three persons will never have a singular image!
And yes! If Jesus said YHWH is the ONLY TRUE GOD, then Jesus and the Spirit are false Gods! There can only be one true God. Except that statement is a lie! And no Prophet recognise this without ambiguity especially before Jesus. This can only be done by reading your trinitarian ideology into the text of the Bible!

For the Umpteenth time, the Bible is not the Quran, where you get to pick and choose what you want to regard as true whenever you feel like it.

Actually, there is a similar concept present in Islam. It might be better to go at this from that point. 😒

---

In Islam, the Quran is considered the uncreated word of Allah of Islam(as part of Aqidah), implying that Allah of Islam's life exists in the Quran. For a thing to be uncreated, it has to have the essence of the creator himself in it, aka godhood. (If you are of the camp that believes the book is not eternal, then that means the Quran's godhood would cease to exist at some point in time.) Is it not so? 😒

Anyways, the Quran and Hadiths have it that at the end, the Quran will manifest in the form of a being to argue on behalf of the believers, implying that the Quran is a separate being from the Allah of Islam(unless you are going to argue that Allah of Islam would be arguing with himself in this). 😒

AntiChristian:
He doesn't need a son yet he has a son and holy Spirit to help him? God never said he had a son till trinitarian creed was perfected in 325AD and further in 381AD. Or do you have a verse from God that said he had a son and also a spirit and both are Gods within himself? Show us the verse before Jesus came!



Isn't this clear from Rev 21:5 that the one "who sits on the throne" is the Alpha and the Omega?

The person speaking in Rev 21:7 claims to be God and consistently throughout the book of Revelations, God is never the same as Jesus/Lamb!

And in Rev 21:7 - says the believers will be his son. They will be God's sons not Jesus's sons!

**He doesn't need to exist at all yet he exists. Who are you to question the nature of God? HIS NATURE IS TO HAVE A "SON"!!
**At the very beginning of Genesis: "the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". Why not "God was hoovering over the waters"? Answer that. If you went swimming will it be said your spirit went swimming?
**Many places in the OT "Son of God" was mentioned: Psalm 2:7, Daniel 3:25, Proverbs 30:42, Samuel 7:14 among others.
----
You have already been told the relationship cannot be described in human terms. Instead of accepting that you keep trying to be deceptive.
It was Jesus speaking throughout Revelation and his attributes are also those of the Father and he is worshipped just as the Father - as if he is also the Father. See example below (Note how it is explicitly stated who sent his angel - Jesus!)

QuinQ:
**He doesn't need to exist at all yet he exists. Who are you to question the nature of God? HIS NATURE IS TO HAVE A "SON"!!
**At the very beginning of Genesis: "the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". Why not "God was hoovering over the waters"? Answer that. If you went swimming will it be said your spirit went swimming?
**Many places in the OT "Son of God" was mentioned: Psalm 2:7, Daniel 3:25, Proverbs 30:42, Samuel 7:14 among others.
----
You have already been told the relationship cannot be described in human terms. Instead of accepting that you keep trying to be deceptive.
It was Jesus speaking throughout Revelation and his attributes are also those of the Father and he is worshipped just as the Father - as if he is also the Father. See example below (Note how it is explicitly stated who sent his angel - Jesus!)

I didn't ask you to show me where "son of God" was mentioned in the Old testament. I asked where your trinitarian God was clearly explained in the old testament. I know it does not exists without you reading it into some couple of pronouns in some verses!

And mind you, did the spirit of God hovering over the waters tell you in that verse that it was God? Why does God's spirit need to hover over water? Is God not capable of knowing what is going on over the water with sending a spirit which is himself? In one word you'll say your God is omnipresent. In the next, you'll say he needs to send spirit to hover over water and son to become man!

Kobojunkie:
For the Umpteenth time, the Bible is not the Quran, where you get to pick and choose what you want to regard as true whenever you feel like it.

Actually, there is a similar concept present in Islam. It might be better to go at this from that point. 😒

---

In Islam, the Quran is considered the uncreated word of Allah of Islam(as part of Aqidah), implying that Allah of Islam's life exists in the Quran. For a thing to be uncreated, it has to have the essence of the creator himself in it, aka godhood. (If you are of the camp that believes the book is not eternal, then that means the Quran's godhood would cease to exist at some point in time.) Is it not so? 😒

Anyways, the Quran and Hadiths have it that at the end, the Quran will manifest in the form of a being to argue on behalf of the believers, implying that the Quran is a separate being from the Allah of Islam(unless you are going to argue that Allah of Islam would be arguing with himself in this). 😒

The Quran is the word of Allah, may He be Exalted, and is not created . What is meant by that is that Allah, may He be exalted, spoke the words of the Quran, which Jibril (peace be upon him) heard from Him, and brought down to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and conveyed it to him.

All of the attributes of Allah, may He be Exalted, are uncreated; they are eternal, with no beginning. The words of Allah are among these attributes, and that includes the Quran. Therefore, the scholars said that the Quran is not created, because it is the words of Allah , and that is one of His attributes.

AntiChristian:
➜...All of the attributes of Allah, may He be Exalted, are uncreated; they are eternal, with no beginning. The words of Allah are among these attributes, and that includes the Quran. Therefore, the scholars said that the Quran is not created, because it is the words of Allah , and that is one of [b]His attributes[/b].

As I already stated,
➜ the Quran is uncreated implies that it has godhood attributed to it, part of Allah of Islam's essence within it.
➜ Islamic Hadiths claim that the Quran can bear witness in the form of a man, meaning it can exist separate from Allah.
➜ As for the claim that the Quran is not eternal, well, what this means is that it is mutable/changeable.

So, Allah is the true/supreme God of Islam, and His Quran is also a temporary/changeable deity in Islam. This is simpler for you to grasp, isn't it?😒

AntiChristian:
I didn't ask you to show me where "son of God" was mentioned in the Old testament. I asked where your trinitarian God was clearly explained in the old testament. I know it does not exists without you reading it into some couple of pronouns in some verses!

And mind you, did the spirit of God hovering over the waters tell you in that verse that it was God? Why does God's spirit need to hover over water? Is God not capable of knowing what is going on over the water with sending a spirit which is himself? In one word you'll say your God is omnipresent. In the next, you'll say he needs to send spirit to hover over water and son to become man!

Jesus didn't exist as God-man in the OT. He was simply God as part of the godhead, part of the Elohim. He was God-man for only some 33 years.

This is about the dumbest from u so far. Of course the Spirit of God is God, but not in a way that is explainable to you. He is God just as the Son is God. All are part of what make up the godhead