₦airaland Forum

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
Your attempt to hide behind corrupted grammar and selective proof-texting is a blatant sign of desperation. Now that you have been cornered on Colossians, you are trying to jump to Proverbs and rewrite John 1:1 using the infamous, grammatically fraudulent "a god" insertion. Let the Scripture expose your deception and answer your questions directly.

You claim John 1:1 should read "a god," comparing Jesus to Moses in Exodus 7:1. This is a desperate and dishonest manipulation of the text. In Exodus 7:1, God tells Moses, *"I have made you like God to Pharaoh."* Moses was a human representative acting with God's authority to an earthly king. But John 1:1 is not talking about a human representative; it is talking about the eternal nature of the Word *before* the universe existed. The original Greek text of John 1:1 ends with *theos ēn ho logos* (literally: "God was the Word". Adding the indefinite article "a" to make it "a god" is a grammatical error invented solely to strip Jesus of His divinity. If Jesus is merely "a god," you are teaching polytheism—the existence of a big God and a lesser, minor god. The Scripture strictly condemns this. Isaiah 43:10 explicitly states: *"Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."* If Jesus is "a god," He is a false god according to Isaiah. But John 1:1 says He is the true God, co-eternal with the Father.

You demand a verse where Jesus explicitly says the words "I am the Creator." This is a classic, dishonest debate tactic. Jesus didn't need to use your exact modern phrasing because He claimed the absolute identity and actions of the Creator throughout His ministry. In the Old Testament, who is the Shepherd? Yahweh (Psalm 23:1). In John 10:11, Jesus says, *"I am the good shepherd."* In the Old Testament, who is the First and the Last? Yahweh (Isaiah 44:6). In Revelation 22:13, Jesus says, *"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."* More importantly, Jesus explicitly claimed the ultimate creative authority over life and judgment. In John 5:21, He states: *"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, **even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it**."* Only the Creator has the power to sovereignly give life to whomever He chooses. Furthermore, in John 10:18, Jesus claimed the power to resurrect Himself: *"I have authority to lay it down and **authority to take it up again**."* A mere creature cannot raise itself from the dead.

You point to Proverbs 30:4 and triumphantly ask, *"Who is the Creator? Is it the son or his father?"* You think this verse separates the Father as the Creator and the Son as a bystander. In reality, this verse completely undermines your entire argument. Proverbs 30:4 asks a series of rhetorical questions about the infinite, unsearchable nature of the Almighty: *"Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!"* In the Old Testament, the name of the Son was a hidden, divine mystery. But the New Testament pulls back the curtain and reveals exactly how the Father and the Son operated in creation. The Scripture does not say the Father created *instead* of the Son; it says the Father created *through* the Son. Look at Hebrews 1:2: *"But in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and **through whom also he made the universe**."* The Father is the source of creation, and the Son is the agent of creation. They are unified in the work of creation. This is why Genesis 1:26 uses plural pronouns: *"Let **us** make man in **our** image, in **our** likeness."*

Your doctrine forces you to twist Greek grammar in John 1:1, ignore the word "for" in Colossians 1:16, and pretend that the Son has no part in creation despite Hebrews 1:2 stating the exact opposite. Jesus submitted to the Father while on earth because He genuinely took on the form of a servant to die for our sins. But his temporary submission in the flesh does not erase His eternal identity as the Creator. You can continue to chop up verses and insert words that are not in the original text, but you cannot change the unified testimony of the Scriptures: Jesus Christ is Lord, God, and the Creator of all things.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks for the epistle!

Did Jesus admit that he is a worshiper of God?
YES! John 20:17
Did the scriptures compare Moses to Jesus?
YES! Deuteronomy 18:18-19
Did the apostles believe that Jesus is the prophet coming in the manner of Moses?
YES! Act 3:22

So try using the scriptures to interpret scriptures not the tradition of men!🙂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
If you truly want to use Scripture to interpret Scripture, then you must accept the verses where Jesus explicitly claims the honors due only to Almighty God. In John 5:23, Jesus states that the Father's will is *"that all may honor the Son **just as** they honor the Father."* Ask yourself: is it scriptural to honor a mere prophet or a created "worshiper" in the exact same way you honor Almighty God? If you give a creature the exact same honor, worship, and devotion that you give to the Creator, you are committing blatant idolatry according to your own doctrine. Yet Jesus commands it, because He and the Father are one in essence.

plesion:
In the letter there are only basics, for most things about it are the arcana which are in the spiritual sense of the Word, and so it is only when it is disclosed, that those appear. In the very letter they do not appear, and so in the Olt Testament's letter you basically read in most places about the challenges of one of the little tribes.

And yet, even in the letter, there are many places speaking about the idea of the Lord's making His Human Divine.

Here is just one of the lists from the "Doctrine of the Lord".

32. iii. That the Lord made His Human Divine from the Divine in Himself, is evident from many passages of the Word, of which those shall be here adduced which confirm:
1. That this was done by successive steps:
Jesus grew and waxed strong in spirit and in wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him (Luke 2:40).
Jesus increased in wisdom, in age, and in grace with God and men (verse 52).

2. That the Divine operated through the Human, as the soul does through the body:

The Son can do nothing from Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing (John 5:19).
I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things and He that hath sent Me is with Me He hath not left Me alone (John 8:28, 29; 5:30).
I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father who sent Me, He hath given Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak (John 12:49).
The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself, but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works (John 14:10).
I am not alone, because the Father is with Me (John 16:32).

3. That the Divine and Human operated unanimously:

What things soever the Father doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise (John 5:19).
As the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will (John 5:21).
As the Father hath life in Himself so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26).
Now they have known that all things which Thou hast given Me, are of Thee (John 17:7).

4. That the Divine was united to the Human, and the Human to the Divine:

If ye had known Me ye would have known My Father also; and ye have seen Him. He said to Philip, who desired to see the Father, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me, hath seen the Father. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? Believe Me, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (John 14:7-11).
If I do not the works of My Father, believe Me not; but if I do, believe the works; that ye may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father (John 10:37, 38).
That they all may be one, as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee (John 17:21).
At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father (John 14:20).
No one is able to pluck the sheep out of My Father's hand; I and the Father are one (John 10:29, 30).
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand (John 3:35).
All things that the Father hath are Mine (John 16:15).
All Mine are Thine, and Thine are Mine (John 17:10).
Thou hast given the Son power [potestas] over all flesh (John 17:2).
All power [potestas] is given unto Me in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18).

5. That the Divine Human is to be approached, is evident from these passages:

That all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father (John 5:23).
If ye had known Me, ye would have known My Father also (John 8:19).
He that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me (John 12:45).
If ye had known Me, ye would have known My Father also; and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him (John 14:7).
He that receiveth Me, receiveth Him that sent Me (John 13:20). The reason of this is that no one can see the Divine Itself which is called "the Father;" but the Divine Human can be seen; for the Lord says,
No one hath seen God at any time the Only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He hath set Him forth (John 1:18).
Not that any one hath seen the Father, save He that is with the Father; He hath seen the Father (John 6:46).
Ye have not heard the Father's voice at any time, nor seen His shape (John 5:37).

6. As the Lord made His Human Divine from the Divine in Himself, and as the Human is to be approached, and as the Son of God, we must put our faith in the Lord, who is both Father and Son. This is evident from these passages:

Jesus said, As many as received Him, to them gave He power [potestas] to be the sons of God, even to them that believe in His name (John 1:12).
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life (John 3:15).
God so loved the world that He gave His Only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should have eternal life (John 3:16).
He that believeth in the Son is not judged; but he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the Only-begotten Son of God (John 3:18).
He that believeth in the Son hath eternal life; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him (John 3:36).
The bread of God is He that cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. He that cometh to Me shall never hunger, and he that believeth in Me shall never thirst (John 6:33, 35).
This is the will of Him that sent Me, that everyone who seeth the Son, and believeth in Him, may have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:40).
They said to Jesus, What shall we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered, This is the work of God, that ye believe in Him whom He hath sent (John 6:28, 29).
Verily I say unto you, He that believeth in Me hath eternal life (John 6:47).
Jesus cried, saying, If anyone thirst let him come unto Me and drink; he that believeth in Me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (John 7:37, 38).
Unless ye believe that I am, ye shall die in your sins (John 8:24).
Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, shall live and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die (John 11:25, 26).
Jesus said, I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth in Me should not abide in darkness (John 12:46; 8:12).
While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light (John 12:36).
Verily I say unto you, that the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live (John 5:25).
Abide in Me, and I in you. I am the vine, ye are the branches; he that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for without Me ye can do nothing (John 15:4, 5).
That they should abide in the Lord, and the Lord in them (John 14:20; 17:23).
I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one cometh unto the Father but by Me (John 14:6).

[7] In these and all other passages where "the Father" is mentioned, there is meant the Divine which was in the Lord from conception, and which, according to the Doctrine of Faith of the Christian world, was circumstanced as is the soul in the body with man. The Human itself from this Divine is the Son of God. Now as this Human was made Divine, therefore, in order to prevent man from approaching the Father only, and thereby in thought, faith, and thence in worship, separating the Father from the Lord in whom the Father is, after the Lord had taught that He and the Father are one; that the Father is in Him, and He in the Father; that all should abide in Him; and that no one cometh to the Father but by Him, He taught also that we must believe in Him, and that man is saved by a faith directed to Him. [8] Many in Christendom can form no idea of the fact that the Human in the Lord was made Divine, the chief reason of which is that they think of a man from his material body, and not from his spiritual body. And yet the truth is that all the angels (who are spiritual) are also men in a complete form; and, what is more, the whole Divine which proceeds from Jehovah God, from its first principles in heaven, down to its ultimate in this world, has a tendency to the human form.*

* That angels are human forms, and that everything Divine has a tendency to the human form, may be seen in the work on Heaven and Hell (n. 73-77, 453-460), and more fully in the works which follow this present one, which will be from Angelic Wisdom concerning the Lord."
(Doctrine of the Lord, by Emanuel Swedenborg)

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The arrogance it takes to demand the exact phrase "because He is Creator" while completely blinding yourself to the literal grammar of the passage is astonishing. You are playing a desperate linguistic game to avoid the plain truth of the text.

Let the text expose your hypocrisy. Open Colossians chapter 1, verses 15 through 16, and read it exactly as the Apostle Paul laid it out:

Verse 15: He is the image of the invisible God, **the firstborn of all creation**.
Verse 16: **FOR** by him all things were created...

Any honest reader with a basic grasp of the English language—or the original Greek—knows what the word **"FOR"** means at the beginning of a sentence. It means **"BECAUSE."**

Paul explicitly connects Christ's title as "firstborn" to the reason *why* He holds that title. Why is He the firstborn over all creation? **FOR (BECAUSE) by Him all things were created.**

You are demanding that Paul use your exact modern vocabulary while you intentionally ignore his explicit grammatical structure. Paul did not say Christ is the firstborn *and then* He was created. He said Christ is the firstborn *because* He created everything in heaven and on earth.

To separate verse 15 from verse 16 just to protect your doctrine is a blatant distortion of Scripture. You are not "exposing" anyone; you are simply proving that you would rather fight against the word **"FOR"** in the text than accept that Jesus Christ is the Creator of the universe. The discussion is over until you find the humility to read the verses together instead of chopping them up to serve your own narrative.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The Bible explicitly states that while Moses was merely a created servant *inside* the house, Jesus is the Creator and Owner *of* the house.

MaxInDHouse:
Please quote where the Bible EXPLICITLY STATES that Jesus is the CREATOR!🙂

Truthseeker10:
The guy is a funny human being. He is just giving himself headache. He wants to force "Jesus is a creator" into our head even though the bible does not do so.

MaxInDHouse:
Nooooooooo!

Please don't conclude yet, there may be a verse in the Bible that EXPLICITLY STATES that Jesus is the CREATOR!

So let's give him a benefit of doubt!🤔

Truthseeker10:
Ok oo🤣 even him chatgpt no go see am.

Emusan:
This particular statement here is what they usually use style to push aside whenever you raise it.

No creature can demand the SAME HONOUR given to God. As our service, Worship and praise are how will honor God.

Now, ask them have they been HONORING JESUS JUST AS THEY HONOR GOD?

You'll see the narration taking another dimension instantly.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
When you raise John 5:23 and ask, *"Have you been honoring Jesus JUST AS you honor God?"*, you completely strip away all their practiced debate scripts. The Greek word used there is *kathōs*, which literally means "in the exact same manner and to the exact same degree."

MaxInDHouse:
So that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. John 5:23

Funny liar!😂

Which religious group honors Jesus in this world better than Jehovah's Witnesses?

You keep deceiving yourself with your friends, Jesus was visibly with the Jews in the first century that's why they need to honor him because he came in the name of Jehovah his father.
Today Jesus is no longer visibly present but he has spiritual brothers who are representing him on this planet today.

Regarding this Jesus said:

‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Matthew 25:40

So if you people don't honor Jesus' brothers in what way are you honoring Jesus or his father?

He said:

“Whoever receives you receives me also, and whoever receives me receives also the One who sent me." Matthew 10:40

The question you should be worried about is:

Who are Christ's brothers today?

If you don't know them who are in your neighborhood how can you honor them?

And if you don't honor them how can you honor Jesus whose representative they are?🙂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
To call someone a liar while twisting the words of Jesus to exalt your own religious group over the Son of God.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you don't honor Jesus for real joo!😂

To honor Jesus is not by mouth {Matthew 15:7-9} Jesus is no longer present here today so you can't honor someone who is not here present.

When Jesus said what your friend quoted @ John 5:23 his listeners aren't seeing God but they can see Jesus in their midst live so today Jesus is not here visibly just as first century Jews listening to him back then can't see the person Jesus was representing.

That is what makes you and your friends jokers deceiving yourselves!😂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
To call someone a liar while twisting the words of Jesus to exalt your own religious group over the Son of God is the height of spiritual blindness. You have completely abandoned the clear text of John 5:23 to pitch a recruitment advertisement for your organization, and in doing so, you have fully exposed the deceit of your doctrine.

[b]
Let the Scripture crush this desperate diversion.

You ask, *"Which religious group honors Jesus in this world better than Jehovah's Witnesses?"* The answer is: any group that actually obeys John 5:23 instead of trying to rewrite it. Jesus explicitly commanded that the Son must be honored **"just as"** (in the exact same manner and degree) as the Father. Do Jehovah's Witnesses pray directly to Jesus? No. Do you worship Jesus? No, your own publications explicitly forbid it. Do you offer the exact same praise, devotion, and absolute reverence to Jesus that you give to Jehovah? No. By your own theological definitions, you do not honor the Son *just as* you honor the Father. Therefore, according to the very next line of that verse, you do not honor the Father at all. You can claim to "honor" Jesus as a prominent creature or a masterpiece angel, but that is a counterfeit honor that directly violates His command.

Your argument that this honor was only for the first century because Jesus was "visibly with the Jews" is a pathetic fabrication. Where does John 5:23 say, "Honor the Son just as the Father only while He is visibly present"? It doesn't. Jesus is speaking about His eternal status as the Judge of the living and the dead. The context of John 5 is about His divine authority to raise the dead and execute judgment—powers He holds for eternity, whether visible to human eyes or not. [/b]

But your most dangerous twist comes when you try to slide "Christ’s brothers" into the place of Christ Himself. You quoted Matthew 25:40 and Matthew 10:40 to argue that honoring Jesus means honoring a specific group of people in your neighborhood. You are attempting to steal the unique, divine honor that belongs solely to Jesus Christ and transfer it to the human leadership of an organization.

Look at the blasphemous ladder you just tried to build: you argue that people cannot honor God unless they honor Jesus, and they cannot honor Jesus unless they recognize and honor your specific group as His "brothers." You have literally made salvation dependent on submitting to human representatives rather than submitting to the Creator.

The Apostles never preached themselves as the destination of honor. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 4:5, *"For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake."*

You want to talk about who is in the neighborhood? Jesus is not hiding behind a corporate organization. He is the omnipresent Creator who promised in Matthew 28:20, *"I am with you always, to the very end of the age."*

Stop playing word games with the King of Kings. You cannot substitute showing hospitality to your organization's members for the total, divine, equal honor that Jesus Christ demands for Himself in John 5:23. You are trying to deflect from your refusal to worship the Son by pointing to your human works, but the Scripture stands firm: if you do not honor the Son in the exact same way you honor the Father, your religion is completely in vain.

"Honour your Father and your mother", says your Bible.
Oga,is your Bible commanding you to worship them?

Oga, honour does not mean worship , I hope you know the difference .

Oga, Jesus has given you instruction to worship ONLY Yahweh his Father, Matthew 4:10. Mark 12:29-30.
@John 12:49-50,Yahweh taught Jesus to stick with Matthew 4:10.
Oga,no lose guard.


Pls don't use John 5:23 dey lose guard.
Revelation 3:2,12, Jesus is a worshipper in heaven.
Na him talk so.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
You claim that because Jesus is not physically here, He cannot be honored or worshiped.

MaxInDHouse:
Funny people!

You want to honor Jesus that you can't see but his spiritual brothers that he sent to represent him you don't recognize. Matthew 25:34-40😂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
To boast about your membership in an organization while treating the King of Kings like an absent figure is the ultimate deception.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
To boast about your membership in an organization while treating the King of Kings like an absent figure is the ultimate deception. You keep trying to insert humans into the place of Almighty God, but your logic collapses under the weight of the very scriptures you are quoting.

In Matthew 25:34-40, Jesus does not say, "Whoever honors my brothers is honoring me *instead* of worshiping me directly." He is talking about treating the vulnerable—the hungry, the stranger, the prisoner—with love. If you think "Christ's brothers" only means the members or leadership of your specific organization, you are excluding the very people Jesus was talking about.

Furthermore, you claim we cannot honor Jesus because we cannot see Him. Let the Apostle John—the author of the Gospel you keep trying to twist—give you the final rebuke. In Revelation 5:13, John looks into heaven and records the worship happening right now:

> *"To him who sits on the throne **and to the Lamb** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"*

The entire universe gives the **exact same praise, honor, glory, and power** to the Lamb (Jesus) as they do to the Father. They do not give Him partial honor, they do not wait for Him to be visible on earth, and they certainly do not substitute His worship by bowing to a corporate earthly organization.

You can keep trying to deflect from John 5:23 by hiding behind your organization's members, but you cannot escape the text. True Christian love honors the brothers, but true Christian faith worships the Master. If you refuse to give the Son the exact same honor, prayer, and devotion that you give the Father, you are openly disobeying Jesus Christ. The debate is over; your own doctrine has weighed you and found you wanting.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
In Matthew 25:34-40, Jesus does not say, "Whoever honors my brothers is honoring me *instead* of worshiping me directly." He is talking about treating the vulnerable—the hungry, the stranger, the prisoner—with love. If you think "Christ's brothers" only means the members or leadership of your specific organization, you are excluding the very people Jesus was talking about.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
You are not ready to learn neither are you ready to hear, and can go elsewhere. You are not needed here.

Emusan:
This particular statement here is what they usually use style to push aside whenever you raise it.

No creature can demand the SAME HONOUR given to God. As our service, Worship and praise are how will honor God.

Now, ask them have they been HONORING JESUS JUST AS THEY HONOR GOD?

You'll see the narration taking another dimension instantly.

Emusan:
According to your own logic.

If Father means SENIOR, isn't that means both the Father and the Son are from the same SOURCE?

Or are you a senior to a Goat or Pig?

Emusan:
If Bible has not explicitly put Jesus outside the Creation only God knows how perverted you people would've made His word to be.

Emusan:
The scripture says ALL THINGS ARE FROM THE FATHER and THE SAME ALL THINGS are through Jesus.

But you have to accept the Father own but stylishly put Jesus own aside.

Is it the same ALL THINGS FROM FATHER THAT ARE THROUGH THE SON or the ALL THINGS through the Son is different?

Emusan:
[b]So, how the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same ORIGIN?

At least you're the one who claimed Father means SENIOR.



No! The scripture says, ALL THINGS are created by Jesus [/b]and WITHOUT HIM(Jesus) NOTHING was created.

Do you mean Jesus created Himself?



Just tell me how Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same ORIGIN.



How The Father means SENIOR if Jesus and God not from the same SOURCE?



Father means SENIOR according to you.

How can the Father senior Jesus if they are not of the same SOURCE?

At least, you're the one who brought that claim of seniority.



So God was lying in Genesis 1:1 that what He created IN THE BEGINNING was Heavens and the Earth.

Continue.



Just cool down, you know how it normally ends.

Emusan:
And Mr Jano couldn't answer my question

plesion:
That arises out of the detailed explanation of the sense of the letter of the Word as to its interiors, and out of the explanation what is implied by the various ideas.


For instance, the idea that the Lord has assumed a Human, that is, He was born as a Man, implies that which is involved in the idea of man, and then man involves the rational (broadly speaking), or the intellectual part, and the natural (or the part, which relates to the daily activities, outward desires, which has their inward and outward as well), and also involves the lowest of the natural mind, which is sensuos, and corporeal.
And when the Lord was glorified, it is not simply the word without meaning, or some kind of glorification that is given to this kind of this world, but that means that He became Divine, that is, that His Human became Divine, that is, whatever was in that human became Divine, thus related to those things that were spoken about in the previous message. With regard to the very general ideas, it is clear that His Human became Divien, because after the Ressurection He was seen passing through the walls, which no material human body can do, thus it was Divine. But not only the Body but everything within Him. Thus, as we are told, in the Lord "dwells all the Divinity of the God/Godhead bodily"