₦airaland Forum

All this shalaye still doesn't translate to a senior men's trophy or tournament goal.

Leave kindergarten successes talk for the likes of Nduka Ugbade, Rabiu Ibrahim, Kelechi Iheanacho and co.

raumdeuter:
Kanu as a teenager won an U17 tournament
Okocha never won it anything in underage

Beyond teenager years, Kanu won Nigeria the biggest trophy in our countrys history
Okocha was a carry along who did nothing

Kanu club career at his peak played for tier 1 clubs Ajax, Inter Milan, Arsenal at his peak
Okocha club career at his peak played for tier 2-3 clubs like Frankfurt, Fenerbahce, PSG, Bolton

If anyone would even be called generational talents between the two, it would be Kanu who did stuffs at U17, as a teen won Nigerian league, won the Dutch league, won the CL for Ajax
Beyond teenage won Nigeria the biggest title, at club level EPL titles. Tell us about Okocha again

raumdeuter:
Kanu as a teenager won an U17 tournament
Okocha never won it anything in underage

Beyond teenager years, Kanu won Nigeria the biggest trophy in our countrys history
Okocha was a carry along who did nothing

Kanu club career at his peak played for tier 1 clubs Ajax, Inter Milan, Arsenal at his peak
Okocha club career at his peak played for tier 2-3 clubs like Frankfurt, Fenerbahce, PSG, Bolton

If anyone would even be called generational talents between the two, it would be Kanu who did stuffs at U17, as a teen won Nigerian league, won the Dutch league, won the CL for Ajax
Beyond teenage won Nigeria the biggest title, at club level EPL titles. Tell us about Okocha again

Okocha is a generational talent.

That he made wrong choices in his career should not diminish his greatness. To be a successful athlete, you must have the required talent, work ethic and the ability to make the right choices.

Is Kanu a more successful football player than Okocha? The answer is YES!

Is Kanu more talented than Okocha?
The answer is NO!

Okocha is the greatest talent that emerged from Nigeria.

Okocha was a generational talent who was unfortunate enough to be born in Nigeria. A generational talent in Africa is already handicapped by so many factors.

He didn't have access to academy football, top equipments and Coaches. All the developing and moulding players go through from the u12 to 15 and then 18 to make them better and master their ability he didn't go through it. The structured training that builds raw talent into world class ability wasn't available to him. Messi, Ronaldinho, Mbappe and others all enjoyed the best academies and equipments while developing. He went to visit his friend in Germany and that was how he was signed by a 3rd division team from just few training sessions. Then just Imagine if Okocha had grown up in a European football system from an early age.

Trevor012:
Uruguay wins today and it's Spain vs Argentina in the round of 32.

It's is needed please

Illimitable:
Okocha is a generational talent.

That he made wrong choices in his career should not diminish his greatness. To be a successful athlete, you must have the required talent, work ethic and the ability to make the right choices.

Is Kanu a more successful football player than Okocha? The answer is YES!

Is Kanu more talented than Okocha?
The answer is NO!

Okocha is the greatest talent that emerged from Nigeria.

No one cares about talent that does not translate into success. You can as well be a ball juggler in National stadium. Some will swear Etim Esin was the greatest, Some will swear they have never seen anyone better than Phillip Osondu or Stanley Okoro, Femi Opabunmi etc

There are several top athletes who will admit this one player was better than me at academy but didnt make it

CR7 talked about Fabio Paim who he claimed was better than him talentwise but never made it, Michael Jordan talked about a friend who was better than him but never made it pro
Talent for Talent, Quaresma was more talented than many top players in his time but what did he make out of it
Same with all those La Masia whizkids Borja Krkic, Isaac Cuenca, Ansu fati, Halilovic etc who didnt make it to senior level

chrisooblog:
All this shalaye still doesn't translate to a senior men's trophy or tournament goal.

Leave kindergarten successes talk for the likes of Nduka Ugbade, Rabiu Ibrahim, Kelechi Iheanacho and co.

The biggest trophy Nigeria ever won in football was won by Kanu. The olympics of 1996 beating R9, Carlos, Rivaldo Bebeto etc

[quote author=andrewbaba44 post=139834352]Anderson isn’t a better player than rice ,please be serious

Anderson isn’t even better than zubimendi [/quote
I dislike this thing y'all do when a club spends heavily on a player

Every big club has overpayed for a player at some point

Kikelomogbenga:
Okocha was a generational talent who was unfortunate enough to be born in Nigeria. A generational talent in Africa is already handicapped by so many factors.

He didn't have access to academy football, top equipments and Coaches. All the developing and moulding players go through from the u12 to 15 and then 18 to make them better and master their ability he didn't go through it. The structured training that builds raw talent into world class ability wasn't available to him. Messi, Ronaldinho, Mbappe and others all enjoyed the best academies and equipments while developing. He went to visit his friend in Germany and that was how he was signed by a 3rd division team from just few training sessions. Then just Imagine if Okocha had grown up in a European football system from an early age.

Europe has so many of those players and they amounted to nothing. Marko Marin was born in Europe, he was tagged the German Messi he became nothing compared to Thomas Muller from the same Germany who has less ball juggling skills but was significantly more successful

There is nothing about Okocha that will translate into football success at best he would be an entertainer and a jester on the field

Alan St Maximin was born in Europe, Wilf Zaha was born in Europe they didn't become anything

There is no difference between Okocha and mediocre players like Lualua Quaresma

The way in which we have been handing out huge salaries is becoming concerning. Viana can not do a deal without throwing £250k a week at the person.

raumdeuter:
Europe has so many of those players and they amounted to nothing. Marko Marin was born in Europe, he was tagged the German Messi he became nothing compared to Thomas Muller from the same Germany who has less ball juggling skills but was significantly more successful

There is nothing about Okocha that will translate into football success at best he would be an entertainer and a jester on the field

Alan St Maximin was born in Europe, Wilf Zaha was born in Europe they didn't become anything

There is no difference between Okocha and mediocre players like Lualua Quaresma

Ok

raumdeuter:
No one cares about talent that does not translate into success. You can as well be a ball juggler in National stadium. Some will swear Etim Esin was the greatest, Some will swear they have never seen anyone better than Phillip Osondu or Stanley Okoro, Femi Opabunmi etc

There are several top athletes who will admit this one player was better than me at academy but didnt make it

CR7 talked about Fabio Paim who he claimed was better than him but never made it, Michael Jordan talked about a friend who was better than him but never made it pro
Talent for Talent, Quaresma was more talented than many top players in his time but what did he make out of it
Same with all those La Masia whizkids Borja Krkic, Isaac Cuenca, Ansu fati, Halilovic etc who didnt make it to senior level

The subject is about talent, not success.

I already agreed Kanu is more successful.

If we follow this logic of yours, Kingsley Coman is a better player than Stevie Gerrard.

Coman has 14 league titles
Gerrard has 0

Is that a fair conclusion?

Illimitable:
The subject is about talent, not success.
I already agreed Kanu is more successful.
If we follow this logic of yours, Kingsley Coman is a better player than Stevie Gerrard.
Coman has 14 league titles
Gerrard has 0
Is that a fair conclusion?

Coman was not the mainstay of any of his team like Gerrard, There is no team Coman played on that he will be in the first 5 name on the teamsheet

So what is talent if it doesnt get success? I am talented too but I just couldnt be arsed to do what it takes to be successful . How do you measure talent if you take success away from it

Your success = talent IMO

Some will say CR7 is not as talented as xyz e.g Quaresma. I say Nonsense, Even lets assume its true, whats the point of Quaresma talents in dribbling 6people with no output, doing a Rabona instead of a tap in, doing a outside of the boot shot instead of a simple pass, Flipping over to do a bicylce kick when a simple header will do. Messi and Ronaldo the best players of this generation are players who do things the easy way which some will say "Not enough talent to show"

Tell me what is the talent in dribbling the defence dribbling the keeper and turning around?

You see some people's list Neymar, Okocha, Messi, Yamal, Iniesta etc. as "generational talent", but omit players like Mbappe, Haaland who were beast at 17-19yos destroying UCL and WC records (and even omitted CR7 that finished 3rd at FIFA World best and 2nd in Balon d'or at 22). It should be obvious to you that such person rate shakushaku and dribbling over actual top-level footballing abilities. Same category would likely rate Cherki as better player than say KDB, or Isco >> Kroos et al

Potvalor:
You see some people's list Neymar, Okocha, Messi, Yamal, Iniesta etc. as "generational talent", but omit players like Mbappe, Haaland who were beast at 17-19yos destroying UCL and WC records (and even omitted CR7 that finished 3rd at FIFA World best and 2nd in Balon d'or at 22). It should be obvious to you that such person rate shakushaku and dribbling over actual top-level footballing abilities. Same category would likely rate Cherki as better player than say KDB, or Isco >> Kroos et al

KDB send a 40yard pass to Haaland for an assist, Cherki dribbles 6 players gets dispossed
Verdict Cherki is more talented

raumdeuter:
Your success = talent IMO

Is this in the context of football or in every other aspect of life.

Aquilani for example is a more talented player than Jordan Henderson but Henderson has a more successful football career.

Nikola Tesla is regarded as one of the greatest inventors of all time. Clearly talented but he died in abject poverty.

I think you can be talented without being successful.

E still choke for Ronaldo too. Messi will get Uruguay or Cape Verde or even Saudi. No way Uruguay is winning Spain

Trevor012:
As it stands

Finish 1st play one of the 3rd place team then Switzerland and Argentina.

Finish 2nd play Ghana or Croatia then Spain.

raumdeuter:
Coman was not the mainstay of any of his team like Gerrard, There is no team Coman played on that he will be in the first 5 name on the teamsheet

So what is talent if it doesnt get success? I am talented too but I just couldnt be arsed to do what it takes to be successful . How do you measure talent if you take success away from it

Your success = talent IMO

Some will say CR7 is not as talented as Bleep e.g Quaresma. I say Nonsense, Even lets assume its true, whats the point of Quaresma talents in dribbling 6people with no output, doing a Rabona instead of a tap in, doing a outside of the boot shot instead of a simple pass, Flipping over to do a bicylce kick when a simple header will do. Messi and Ronaldo the best players of this generation are players who do things the easy way which some will say "Not enough talent to show"

Tell me what is the talent in dribbling the defence dribbling the keeper and turning around?

Kanu wasn’t the mainstay of any of his team.

He was a substitute throughout his career. Even at Ajax, it was Finidi George, Marc Overmars and Jari Litmanen that occupied the front 3. Kanu came on as a substitute.

At Arsenal, the front two was Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry. Kanu wasn’t top 5 player in any of the top teams he played for.

It cuts both ways.

Coman is bloody successful with mid-talent
Kanu is bloody successful with mid talent

Okocha was unsuccessful but he’s incredibly talented.
Okocha’s card on FIFA games are icons.

raumdeuter:
KDB send a 40yard pass to Haaland for an assist, Cherki dribbles 6 players gets dispossed
Verdict Cherki is more talented

Average players can send a 40yard pass, an average player can't dribble 6 players constantly. This example doesn't help your argument.

raumdeuter:
KDB send a 40yard pass to Haaland for an assist, Cherki dribbles 6 players gets dispossed
Verdict Cherki is more talented

Exactly. This is the same reason many people keep mentioning Neymar as the 3rd best player of the CR7/Messi era, like it is the hard truth. I have seen many comparisons that favors dribblers over players who are actually better than them e.g Hazard >>> Bale, or Neymar having "natural talent" than CR7 etc. Until casual football viewers understand that dribbling or ball hugging doesn't equate "natural talent", we will continue seeing such ridiculous takes as the majority opinion.

Godx:
Average players can send a 40yard pass, an average player can't dribble 6 players constantly. This example doesn't help your argument.

The one that sends a 40yards pass has vision which is a big part of talent and achieves the aim better than one who dribbles 6 players into an alley

Illimitable:
Kanu wasn’t the mainstay of any of his team.

He was a substitute throughout his career. Even at Ajax, it was Finidi George, Marc Overmars and Jari Litmanen that occupied the front 3. Kanu came on as a substitute.

At Arsenal, the front two was Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry. Kanu wasn’t top 5 player in any of the top teams he played for.

It cuts both ways.

Coman is bloody successful with mid-talent
Kanu is bloody successful with mid talent

Okocha was unsuccessful but he’s incredibly talented.
Okocha’s card on FIFA games are icons.

So Okocha was better in video games but Kanu was better on the field

Kanu wasnt a top 5 player in any top team, Okocha didn't even make it into the top 22 in any top team

raumdeuter:
KDB send a 40yard pass to Haaland for an assist, Cherki dribbles 6 players gets dispossed
Verdict Cherki is more talented

There’s a reason City bought both players.

Different players with different attributes, they both have their uses. When a defence sits deep like Arsenal did at the Etihad and you need a magician to unlock the defence, that is when you will appreciate Cherki.

raumdeuter:
The one that sends a 40yards pass has vision which is a big part of talent and achieves the aim better than one who dribbles 6 players into an alley

The point is anyone can send a 40yard pass, not everyone can dribble 6 players. You either have it or you don't.

AirBere:
Is this in the context of football or in every other aspect of life.
Aquilani for example is a more talented player than Jordan Henderson but Henderson has a more successful football career.
Nikola Tesla is regarded as one of the greatest inventors of all time. Clearly talented but he died in abject poverty.
I think you can be talented without being successful.

What makes Aquilani more talented than Henderson? The same Aquiliani came to Liverpool and was trash

Football is a result oriented game you are judged by results, If your result is achieved with style then great but result is the first thing. Its why teams like Bielsa Leeds United went to relegation

Like a student who fails exam but has a fine handwriting

Potvalor:
Exactly. This is the same reason many people keep mentioning Neymar as the 3rd best player of the CR7/Messi era, like it is the hard truth. I have seen many comparisons that favors dribblers over players who are actually better than them e.g Hazard >>> Bale, or Neymar having "natural talent" than CR7 etc. Until casual football viewers understand that dribbling or ball hugging doesn't equate "natural talent", we will continue seeing such ridiculous takes as the majority opinion.

What equates natural talent when it comes to football?

Unlimited22:
I like Van Hecke but he’s slow(er) and Alonso wants to play 343 IMO

Lacroix is not faster than Van Hecke, no let skin colour deceive you

Say we are selling Chalobah for £20m and buying Lacroix for £45m, I can tell you there is not much difference between them as seen when they were both at Palace together

Godx:
The point is anyone can send a 40yard pass, not everyone can dribble 6 players. You either have it or you don't.

Not everyone can send a 40yars pass on the field to reach a strike, it takes vision and high IQ. Its why some players are called exceptional passers of the ball like KdB Fabregas Kroos

raumdeuter:
So Okocha was better in video games but Kanu was better on the field

Kanu wasnt a top 5 player in any top team, Okocha didn't even make it into the top 22 in any top team

Okocha is more respected by the pundits and media.

There are many pubs in Bolton where you will get free alcohol if you mention you are from the same village as Okocha.

He’s a demi-god in Bolton.

Illimitable:
There’s a reason City bought both players.

Different players with different attributes, they both have their uses. When a defence sits deep like Arsenal did at the Etihad and you need a magician to unlock the defence, that is when you will appreciate Cherki.

Like City bought Grealish too but quickly found out that he was more of an entertainer than a result oriented person. Players like KdB have been using quick decision making to split deep defence for years

Kanu finished 6th in WPOTY in 1996

Okocha probably never made shortlist

Illimitable:
Okocha is more respected by the pundits and media.
There are many pubs in Bolton where you will get free alcohol if you mention you are from the same village as Okocha.
He’s a demi-god in Bolton.

Unfortunately Bolton is a tier 4 club, Okocha basically found his level at tier 4 of football. As you dey sef, if you look well, you will see a tier 21 club who will make you a legend

I just remembered Fofana which led me to CSO, then Sterling then Lukaku then Aubameyang

And i cursed Thomas Tuchel with his 100% transfer flop record