₦airaland Forum

Openyamind111:
See wetin hatred don turn some people into.. if truly you’re educated the education should reflect in your way of life.. the same delusional set of people.. the ones who lack cultural diversity. The ill-informed ones without cultural norms and values.. the ones with lack of rules of engagement.. na wa o

Talk iis cheap

benardtotti:
Is it because edo folks are not loud like your ibo brothers? Lol trust me there is a WHOOOOLE lot you guys don't know about edo state and her people.

Well you shouldn't blame him. I dont think he ever attended any institution with Edo or delta people.. Gush!!! They are intelligent... I''m igbo and I did encounter some during the national common entrance exams and attended same university with some of them in the East.. They are so so SOUND. Infact the best student in our department, MECH. Engr, was from Delta while some from Edo also topped the class ..I also believe Edo and Delta states are same..

What doesn't tell the true story? Assuming the Yorubas are 1 billion people and the Edos are 100 in number, whichever tribe has the higher percentage of the most literate takes the higher ranking, just like it applies to other measures like GDP per capita, etc.

Inspirer1:
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode]The funny thing about statistics like this is that if we have 100 Edo speakers and 80 of them can read, that's 80%. Meanwhile having 1 million who speaks speak Yoruba, and out of which 750,000 or 75% can read, ...it Therefore, the Statisense data analysis doesn't tell the true story.

helinues:
Edo above Yoruba as how? Who conducted the survey?

Quality of education in South West has fallen a lot. Agbero and Olodo uprising is derailing education among children and young adults.

E ti ni fra ooo.....ajeh...!!!

ReubenE:
No, they are not.

Ijaws are.

The reason "many Nigerians" in your own words don't agree is because they are not.

You are using your emotions to generate statistical data, and that is not how it works

Then give us your own statistics to back your claim, because the only real ijaw state is bayelsa, and they have only 8 local government, though the ijaws are scattered all over the south mostly riverine areas, but if you look at their main base which is bayelsa, you can do your maths from there.

don't forget only eight local government, why ibibios occupies over 23 local government out of 31 local government in akwa ibom state, and they are also in every part of Nigeria.

BiziNaija:
What doesn't tell the true story? Assuming the Yorubas are 1 billion people and the Edos are 100 in number, whichever tribe has the higher percentage of the most literate takes the higher ranking, just like it applies to other measures like GDP per capita, etc.

Two Yoruba states lead HDI in the country. Lagos and Ogun. Inside Edo state there are many ethnic groups and they will not necessarily have exactly the same HDI. They don't all live under exactly the same settings. There are Yoruba groups inside Edo state as well and they are probably counted as Edo. If you now take only Benin people or another single ethnic group in Edo state, I am sure you can find people in the North central that match them. There are many groups in the North doing well educationally. There are highly educated ethnic groups in states like Kaduna, Plateau and etc

lawani:
You are not correct. HDI in the SW when last measured was highest in Lagos and Ogun state and they are the two states with the highest igr. Lagos and Ogun state also happen to top the chart of HDI in Nigeria. It is about money spent on the education sector per Capita. A low population state collecting big allocation should do better than a state with a higher population collecting the same allocation

Nigerian states by HDI showing Lagos and Ogun states as chart toppers

https://www.nairaland.com/7762518/2021-human-development-index

https://globaldatalab.org/shdi/shdi/NGA/

It is a result of money available for government to spend consisting of federal allocations and internally generated revenue. If you don't have igr and revenue sharing is skewed against you then there is no magic you can perform

What you seem to forget is that Lagos is an outlier, and by extension, people who live in parts of Ogun but actually work in Lagos or are Lagos-orientated due to geographical contiguity. Lagos trend do not mostly align with the broader SW. Even 2023 presidential election result showed it. Lagos skews SW results. Remove Lagos and Ogun, and SW HDI would be much lower.

Edo for example has only a moderate Federal allocation but very decent IGR, despite little FG presence or multinationals HQs to pay local taxes. Aside Oyo and Lagos States, you cannot call Edo, Anambra or Imo small population states with high allocation. For many years now, alongside Delta, these states have been consistently doing very well when WAEC and Jamb results are released. Even these states have some of the highest Unity School entry score requirements nationwide. They are already considered educationally advantaged. The foundation for such performances are laid from primary to Junior Secondary level, around age 5 to 14.

Bayelsa, Delta and AK have probably some of the highest FG allocation, but are not runaway performers in terms of education and HDI.

Funny that you pulled out HDI that you claim favour SW and believe it, but you don't believe the education statistics as it favours others.

Or you suddenly claim to know the only reason for the education performance. As the professor of Human Development and Education that you are, abi?

AreaFada2:
What you seem to forget is that Lagos is an outlier, and by extension, people who live in parts of Ogun but actually work in Lagos or are Lagos-orientated due to geographical contiguity. Lagos trend do not mostly align with the broader SW. Even 2023 presidential election result showed it. Lagos skews SW results. Remove Lagos and Ogun, and SW HDI would be much lower.

Edo for example has only a moderate Federal allocation but very decent IGR, despite little FG presence or multinationals HQs to pay local taxes. Aside Oyo and Lagos States, you cannot call Edo, Anambra or Imo small population states with high IGR.

Bayelsa, Delta and AK have probably some of the highest FG allocation, but are not runaway performers in terms of education and HDI.

Funny that you pulled out HDI that you claim favour and believe it, but you don't believe the education statistics as it favours others.

Or you suddenly claim to know the only reason for the education performance. As the professor of Human Development and Education that you are, abi?

Lagos isn't an outlier. Up to eighty percent of the population is Yoruba. Ogun will be more than ninety five percent.
Presidential election results didn't show anything. The Yoruba in Lagos decided to vote LP and then voted APC in other elections. Lagos isn't an outlier. It is a Yoruba state. It is far more Yoruba than Benin is Edo, Jos is Berom or PH is Ikwerre and etc. Lagos and Ogun have the highest HDI not because non Yorubas are living in them as you seem to imply but because they have igr that they spend on education.

Then almost all the high allocation states have high HDI. I think it is all of them. Go and look at the tables.

Yes I used my basic common sense to determine why and it is obvious I am right. It does not make any sense you know, it is actually foolish to open your mouth and say it is because of DNA

lawani:
Lagos isn't an outlier. Up to eighty percent of the population is Yoruba. Ogun will be more than ninety five percent.
Presidential election results didn't show anything. The Yoruba in Lagos decided to vote LP and then voted APC in other elections. Lagos isn't an outlier. It is a Yoruba state. It is far more Yoruba than Benin is Edo, Jos is Berom or PH is Ikwerre and etc. Lagos and Ogun have the highest HDI not because non Yorubas are living in them as you seem to imply but because they have igr that they spend on education.

Then almost all the high allocation states have high HDI. I think it is all of them. Go and look at the tables.

Yes I used my basic common sense to determine why and it is obvious I am right. It does not make any sense you know, it is actually foolish to open your mouth and say it is because of DNA

Very poor of you to call someone you don't know foolish. It reflects badly on you. Anyhow, your arguments seem to be about Lagos being Yoruba or not Yoruba. You could not hide your tribalistic bent. My point is that any city that has been a Federal Capital or is one and is a commercial centre will have a high level of non-indigenes. You suddenly aver that Edo is more cosmopolitan than Lagos. Yes, it was, even before Lagos existed. But it was never a Federal capital, so Lagos later came to have more settlers. From Sierra Leoneans, slave returnees to other Nigerians since amalgamation.
DNA matter is your fabrication and inference.

Fact is, the advantage from Pa Awo/Pa Ajasin free education policy days does not really apply these days in SW. Be reminded that that policy did not apply to Lagos, as Lagos was politically separate from Western Region in the First Republic, in the Lyttleton Constitution.

AreaFada2:
Very poor of you to call someone you don't know foolish. It reflects badly on you. Anyhow, your arguments seem to be about Lagos being Yoruba or not Yoruba. You could not hide your tribalistic bent. My point is that any city that has been a Federal Capital or is one and is a commercial centre will have a high level of non-indigenes. You suddenly aver that Edo is more cosmopolitan than Lagos. Yes, it was, even before Lagos existed. But it was never a Federal capital, so Lagos later came to have more settlers. From Sierra Leoneans, slave returnees to other Nigerians since amalgamation.
DNA matter is your fabrication and inference.

Fact is, the advantage from Pa Awo/Pa Ajasin free education policy days does not really apply these days in SW. Be reminded that that policy did not apply to Lagos, as Lagos was politically separate from Western Region in the First Republic, in the Lyttleton Constitution.

You attacked me first and I responded by saying I solved the puzzle with basic common sense and not a PhD or a Professorial rank. I had to point out one way or the other that you should not have even come up with your position. I am sorry about using the word foolish but it was the idea I called foolish and not yourself. Lagos state was not a capital city. Lagos island was. There are some cities established by Europeans in Nigeria that are today more or less deserted like Zungeru. Calabar was a colonial capital, so was Lokoja and all of Enugu, Owerri, Jos and etc were established from the scratch by the British. Then Lagos island stopped being the federal capital decades ago. Lagos also was not established by Europeans like the other cities I mentioned.
If no Action Group the Yoruba would still have been ok. Some of the most successful Yoruba groups today were not in the western region at all. They were in the North. Many other ethnic groups in Nigeria pulled themselves up by the bootstrap without any political party helping them
Then if people are attacking the Yoruba like you are doing or infact if they are attacking any other group then some people will try to defend the same Yoruba or any group you are attacking or talking down upon and those people might not even be Yoruba and they might be but when they are Yoruba like I am then you call them tribalists. It is okay as that kind of tribalism is the right course of action.
In conclusion the advantage the Yoruba have is numbers and not much else in today's world and if Nigeria isn't disbanded then things will most likely continue going south for them as well as for all others under the Nigeria umbrella despite their numbers but the advantage granted by numbers can't be wiped away just because one or two generations have passed away

Then Benin was the Midwest capital, if it was never the Midwest capital, it would not have been bigger than Ilesa, Oyo or Ogbomosho and etc today. Check the early census figures of the city compared to others. Therefore Benin gained whatever Lagos gained on an even bigger scale. Ilorin too gained the same thing starting from 1967 while Benin started in 1963.

I mentioned DNA because there was no other way remaining to explain your position or why would you think the HDI of a Yoruba state is high because of the settler population? Are the settlers the ones that taught the Yoruba civilization? The majority of the Yoruba have lived in cities for thousands of years, generation After generation

So you don't even know that over 95 percent of today's Lagos was in the western region? And that they all enjoyed all the programmes of the western region government? I doubt if the people living on the land of the old federal capital can be more than 500k to 1 million people.

ElSudani:
I wonder o. Yet, when you hear of Nigerians doing wonders academically all over the world they are often Yoruba.
Something is wrong with your 419 statistics.

Yeah bro! I think you're actually correct! That same 419 of grab it, snatch it and run away with it, right?

lawani:
You attacked me first and I responded by saying I solved the puzzle with basic common sense and not a PhD or a Professorial rank. I had to point out one way or the other that you should not have even come up with your position. I am sorry about using the word foolish but it was the idea I called foolish and not yourself. Lagos state was not a capital city. Lagos island was. There are some cities established by Europeans in Nigeria that are today more or less deserted like Zungeru. Calabar was a colonial capital, so was Lokoja and all of Enugu, Owerri, Jos and etc were established from the scratch by the British. Then Lagos island stopped being the federal capital decades ago. Lagos also was not established by Europeans like the other cities I mentioned.
If no Action Group the Yoruba would still have been ok. Some of the most successful Yoruba groups today were not in the western region at all. They were in the North. Many other ethnic groups in Nigeria pulled themselves up by the bootstrap without any political party helping them
Then if people are attacking the Yoruba like you are doing or infact if they are attacking any other group then some people will try to defend the same Yoruba or any group you are attacking or talking down upon and those people might not even be Yoruba and they might be but when they are Yoruba like I am then you call them tribalists. It is okay as that kind of tribalism is the right course of action.
In conclusion the advantage the Yoruba have is numbers and not much else in today's world and if Nigeria isn't disbanded then things will most likely continue going south for them as well as for all others under the Nigeria umbrella despite their numbers but the advantage granted by numbers can't be wiped away just because one or two generations have passed away

Then Benin was the Midwest capital, if it was never the Midwest capital, it would not have been bigger than Ilesa, Oyo or Ogbomosho and etc today. Check the early census figures of the city compared to others. Therefore Benin gained whatever Lagos gained on an even bigger scale. Ilorin too gained the same thing starting from 1967 while Benin started in 1963.

I mentioned DNA because there was no other way remaining to explain your position or why would you think the HDI of a Yoruba state is high because of the settler population? Are the settlers the ones that taught the Yoruba civilization? The majority of the Yoruba have lived in cities for thousands of years, generation After generation

So you don't even know that over 95 percent of today's Lagos was in the western region? And that they all enjoyed all the programmes of the western region government? I doubt if the people living on the land of the old federal capital can be more than 500k to 1 million people.

Your problem is if anyone has a neutral opinion, you feel he must be against Yoruba. The British called Benin a city in 1553. Perhaps only Kano had such civilisation at the time. We all know how the fall of Oyo created new centres like Ibadan, less than 200 years ago. Fact is, Lagos being Federal Capital brought far more people into the area.
You need to let tribal blinders fall from your eyes.
Without free education of Action Group, SW would be less educated. No doubt. Sure, it benefited also Midwest (now Edo and Delta) before 1963 and many others who came to live in Western Region.

Four your information, read my posts from the last 10 years plus here on NL, to see my connection with SW. Sadly, anyone who doesn't do herd mentality is insulted by many SW people. We see it today with how people insult Rufai Oseni, Sowore, even Afenifere members for having their own views. Some SW people should learn to better respect plurality of opinions. It's a hallmark of genuine sophistication.

AreaFada2:
Your problem is if anyone has a neutral opinion, you feel he must be against Yoruba. The British called Benin a city in 1553. Perhaps only Kano had such civilisation at the time. We all know how the fall of Oyo created new centres like Ibadan, less than 200 years ago. Fact is, Lagos being Federal Capital brought far more people into the area.
You need to let tribal blinders fall from your eyes.
Without free education of Action Group, SW would be less educated. No doubt. Sure, it benefited also Midwest (now Edo and Delta) before 1963 and many others who came to live in Western Region.

Four your information, read my posts from the last 10 years plus here on NL, to see my connection with SW. Sadly, anyone who doesn't do herd mentality is insulted by many SW people. We see it today with how people insult Rufai Oseni, Sowore, even Afenifere members for having their own views. Some SW people should learn to better respect plurality of opinions. It's a hallmark of genuine sophistication.

Did you visit Ilesa one thousand years ago or Iwo or Ila Orangun or Ede or Akure or Ondo or Owo or Ijebu ode and etc to know their population? There could not have been anytime the Benin capital was bigger than the Ijesa capital. In the fifteenth century Benin was 50k people according to the Portuguese not the British. No British in West Africa in the 1500s The Oyo capital that is now deserted might have been up to ten times that population back then. Their calvary force deployed at once would be at least three times the population of the whole of Benin city if not up to ten times. So the Yoruba are known for living in cities perhaps more than any other people on Earth. All those cities existed when Benin existed in the fifteenth century and some existed thousands of years before Benin was even established for example Iwo and some were bigger than Benin back then but as at 1960, Ilesa was bigger than Benin by a little, Ogbomoso was three times and Ibadan was more than five times while Ilorin was around double. Today Ibadan may just be around over three times the population of Benin

The Okun in Kogi today were not in the west and they are said to have up to 500 Profs. The Offa were not in the west and they say they are the single Yoruba town with the highest number of Profs. The Igbos did not have free education and they are ok, so with or without the AG, a people like the Yoruba will normally go for self development in any form it presents itself. My two grandfathers are the same age grade as Awo and they were both headmasters

The capital status brought people to Lagos and such status brought people to other places too as I have explained. Not only Lagos and Lagos has not been the capital of Nigeria for three decades and I have pointed out other places even deserted places that were capitals. It isn't the former capital status working for Lagos

No there is no need for me to let any blinders fall off my eyes. I have not spoken out of turn. You shouldn't expect quiet from everyone when disparaging remarks are made about a group they belong to. I mean you too would respond and try to clear the air.

lawani:
Did you visit Ilesa one thousand years ago or Iwo or Ila Orangun or Ede or Akure or Ondo or Owo or Ijebu ode and etc to know their population? There could not have been anytime the Benin capital was bigger than the Ijesa capital. In the fifteenth century Benin was 50k people according to the Portuguese not the British. No British in West Africa in the 1500s The Oyo capital that is now deserted might have been up to ten times that population back then. Their calvary force deployed at once would be at least three times the population of the whole of Benin city if not up to ten times. So the Yoruba are known for living in cities perhaps more than any other people on Earth. All those cities existed when Benin existed in the fifteenth century and some existed thousands of years before Benin was even established for example Iwo and some were bigger than Benin back then but as at 1960, Ilesa was bigger than Benin by a little, Ogbomoso was three times and Ibadan was more than five times while Ilorin was around double. Today Ibadan may just be around over three times the population of Benin

The Okun in Kogi today were not in the west and they are said to have up to 500 Profs. The Offa were not in the west and they say they are the single Yoruba town with the highest number of Profs. The Igbos did not have free education and they are ok, so with or without the AG, a people like the Yoruba will normally go for self development in any form it presents itself. My two grandfathers are the same age grade as Awo and they were both headmasters

The capital status brought people to Lagos and such status brought people to other places too as I have explained. Not only Lagos and Lagos has not been the capital of Nigeria for three decades and I have pointed out other places even deserted places that were capitals. It isn't the former capital status working for Lagos

No there is no need for me to let any blinders fall off my eyes. I have not spoken out of turn. You shouldn't expect quiet from everyone when disparaging remarks are made about a group they belong to. I mean you too would respond and try to clear the air.

At no point did any independent record show any Yoruba town as bigger than Benin in the 15th or 16th century. The Portuguese came to Benin in 1472 and in 1485. The English were in Benin in 1553 and called it a city. Hence Benin-City. It wasn't just made up. The Dutch were there by 1668. Although Britain relied later mostly on indirect trade with Benin, they had visited by 1553.

The French Barbot brothers were certainly in Benin by 1678 by their own accounts.

The Portuguese accompanied Benin warriors to Idah War in 1516. The Portuguese letter written in Benin in 1516 describing the War still exist. The oldest existing letter written in modern day Nigeria. I also know which year Owa Obokun went to Benin to seek help.
It would be good to know of independent account of the size of Oyo Ile, Ileha, Ife, Ede, Osogbo, Ogbomoso, etc. You seem to forget how the fall of Oyo and its towns made other Yoruba towns to swell with refugees. The nascent Ibadan is a good example.
I was not in Ilesha, but my people ruling Owo from 1600 AD.

At this point, fix a date later in the year for me to take you to Owo and check with the current kabiyesi, chiefs and local historians by yourself. This should settle it. To reciprocate, fix a date for us to meet the head of your family to tell us about the land you come from and its history.

We will document the visits here on NL for others to learn from.

If you can't follow this up, you are not serious.

It is one thing to blindly argue online, it's another to have the balls to prove it on the ground. It won't be good enough for you to just insult, dismiss and run away.

I first told you to read my old posts here on NL.

With all humility, as for profs, my extended family ranks amongst those with the highest number of lawyers, high court judges, doctors, accountants, engineers and professors in SW and 9ja as a whole. So, don't mention education stuff in Okunland at all.
Not everyone who seeks to be objective is Igbo or anti-Yoruba.

Thank you.

Ndi Igbo Kwenu.

AreaFada2:
At no point did any independent record show any Yoruba town as bigger than Benin in the 15th or 16th century. The Portuguese came to Benin in 1472 and in 1485. The English were in Benin in 1553 and called it a city. Hence Benin-City. It wasn't just made up. The Dutch were there by 1668. Although Britain relied later mostly on indirect trade with Benin, they had visited by 1553.

The French Barbot brothers were certainly in Benin by 1678 by their own accounts.

The Portuguese accompanied Benin warriors to Idah War in 1516. The Portuguese letter written in Benin in 1516 describing the War still exist. The oldest existing letter written in modern day Nigeria. I also know which year Owa Obokun went to Benin to seek help.
It would be good to know of independent account of the size of Oyo Ile, Ileha, Ife, Ede, Osogbo, Ogbomoso, etc. You seem to forget how the fall of Oyo and its towns made other Yoruba towns to swell with refugees. The nascent Ibadan is a good example.
I was not in Ilesha, but my people ruling Owo from 1600 AD.

At this point, fix a date later in the year for me to take you to Owo and check with the current kabiyesi, chiefs and local historians by yourself. This should settle it. To reciprocate, fix a date for us to meet the head of your family to tell us about the land you come from and its history.

We will document the visits here on NL for others to learn from.

If you can't follow this up, you are not serious.

It is one thing to blindly argue online, it's another to have the balls to prove it on the ground. It won't be good enough for you to just insult, dismiss and run away.

I first told you to read my old posts here on NL.

With all humility, as for profs, my extended family ranks amongst those with the highest number of lawyers, high court judges, doctors, accountants, engineers and professors in SW and 9ja as a whole. So, don't mention education stuff in Okunland at all.
Not everyone who seeks to be objective is Igbo or anti-Yoruba.

Thank you.

I am arguing blindly online? Do you know what you are saying at all? Don't insult me by saying I am arguing blindly. Pick anything I said and prove it wrong. The first letter was written in Benin? There were letters written in West Africa before Benin was established at all. Benin must have been established after AD 1000 maybe even after AD 1300. They have had less than forty Kings in total. It was not Europeans that brought literacy or letter writing to West Africa. Owo that you mentioned was established thousands of years before Benin was established. Benin may have ruled over it a point, such happens and there are nearby cities to Benin that reduced Benin to a tributary at a point as well. Owo is not a new city established by the children of the last Oduduwa. It was a son of Orunmila that originally established Owo and that was thousands of years before the last Oduduwa. Owo was a city before Benin even existed

I don't need corroboration from anywhere before knowing the Benin capital could not have been bigger at anytime than the Ijesa capital. You can assume without needing corroboration that Paris is a peer of Berlin. If it was bigger at any point, the difference would not have been significant but by 1960 Ilesa was bigger than Benin and that is a fact. I would agree though that the Oyo capital was certainly much bigger than the Ijesa capital and it was still bigger in 1960

1Alex:
ask statisense. It's that simple

So statisence is correct today bah ,lolzzzz

Fearyourcreator:
So statisence is correct today bah ,lolzzzz

where did I say that?

lawani:
I am arguing blindly online? Do you know what you are saying at all? Don't insult me by saying I am arguing blindly. Pick anything I said and prove it wrong. The first letter was written in Benin? There were letters written in West Africa before Benin was established at all. Benin must have been established after AD 1000 maybe even after AD 1300. They have had less than forty Kings in total. It was not Europeans that brought literacy or letter writing to West Africa. Owo that you mentioned was established thousands of years before Benin was established. Benin may have ruled over it a point, such happens and there are nearby cities to Benin that reduced Benin to a tributary at a point as well. Owo is not a new city established by the children of the last Oduduwa. It was a son of Orunmila that originally established Owo and that was thousands of years before the last Oduduwa. Owo was a city before Benin even existed

I don't need corroboration from anywhere before knowing the Benin capital could not have been bigger at anytime than the Ijesa capital. You can assume without needing corroboration that Paris is a peer of Berlin. If it was bigger at any point, the difference would not have been significant but by 1960 Ilesa was bigger than Benin and that is a fact. I would agree though that the Oyo capital was certainly much bigger than the Ijesa capital and it was still bigger in 1960

Do you know that Benin was virtually destroyed in 1897 by the British? What do you think happens to the population of a city burnt down? Do you know the waves of people who left Benin over the centuries? Some are today's Degema, Igede and other people far from Benin. I can also take you to Kabiyesis in Ondo state who proudly say they are from Benin.

From 1897 to 1960 was barely 63 years. The monarchy was only restored in 1914.

You have stylishly avoided the challenge I threw down. Only to be speculating about things you cannot prove.
You immediately assume that Benin was ruling Owo from 1600. You don't even know the history of Owo.

Owo was founded in 1019 AD. Our fathers reigned from that time until today. The reason I mentioned 1600 is that the evidence of that ruler is attested in Owo and Benin because he was of mixed Owo and Benin heritage. And grew up in Benin.

So, don't do wild Orunmila speculation about Owo. Don't pollute the history.

We are talking of documented history. Fact is anyone can claim to have existed for 1 million years, but what evidence are there? Cite existing letters written before 1516 in Nigeria/West Africa.

In Ifa corpus, we know what it says about Owo.

Benin has had 40 Obas from 1170 Oba era, but dozens of Ogisos before that.

Ibadan founded in 1820s has had well over 40 Obas (if you include the Ba'ales as they were called before 1925). Owo founded in 1019 has had 33. So, how does the number of Obas exactly show the age of a kingdom? You forgot the manner of king selection and other factors, such as in some lands, Obas being frequently deposed or eliminated as Bashorun Gaa did to Alaafin Labisi, Awonbioju, Agboluaje, Majeogbe, and nearly did to Abiodun within barely 24 years. Your historical knowledge is pretty limited.

You see everything from a tribalistic viewpoint.

I would be quite happy if scientists can prove that the original Garden of Eden was in Ejigbo, Efon-Alaye, Okrika, Abudu, Aguleri or Kaura Namoda, as long as it is correct. But for you, the truth is irrelevant, unless it is within SW.
It shows you are not a scientific mind, whatever your education. Science seeks to corroborate with evidence.

I have offered you a concrete opportunity to see history in action, but like a typical online warrior, you have dodged it.

At least let the intense tribalism in you move you to want to see the Kabiyesis in Ondo who say they are from Benin. And ask why they say so.

AreaFada2:
Do you know that Benin was virtually destroyed in 1897 by the British? What do you think happens to the population of a city burnt down?
From 1897 to 1960 was barely 63 years. The monarchy was only restored in 1914.

You have stylishly avoided the challenge I threw down. Only to be speculating about things you cannot prove.
You immediately assume that Benin was ruling Owo from 1600. You don't even know the history of Owo.

Owo was founded in 1019 AD. Our fathers reigned from that time until today. The reason I mentioned 1600 is that the evidence of that ruler is attested in Owo and Benin because he was of mixed Owo and Benin heritage. And grew up in Benin.

So, don't do wild Orunmila speculation about Owo. Don't pollute the history.

We are talking of documented history. Fact is anyone can claim to have existed for 1 million years, but what evidence are there? Cite existing letters written before 1516 in Nigeria/West Africa.

In Ifa corpus, we know what it says about Owo.

Benin has had 40 Obas from 1170 Oba era, but dozens of Ogisos before that.

Ibadan founded in 1820s has had well over 40 Obas (if you include the Ba'ales as they were called before 1925). Owo founded in 1019 has had 33. So, how does the number of Obas exactly show the age of a kingdom? You forgot the manner of king selection and other factors, such as Obas being frequently deposed or eliminated as Bashorun Gaa did to Alaafin Labisi, Awonbioju, Agboluaje, Majeogbe, and nearly did to Abiodun within barely 24 years. Your historical knowledge is pretty limited.

You see everything from a tribalistic viewpoint.

I would be quite happy if scientists can prove that the original Garden of Eden was in Ejigbo, Efon-Alaye, Okrika, Abudu, Aguleri or Kaura Namoda, as long as it is correct. But for you, the truth is irrelevant, unless it is within SW.
It shows you are not a scientific mind, whatever your education. Science seeks to corroborate with evidence.

I have offered you a concrete opportunity to see history in action, but like a typical online warrior, you have dodged it.

Benin was not destroyed in 1897. A unit of the West African Frontier force or so was basically sent to arrest some people in Benin for ambushing and killing some British officials that approached the city earlier. How many people were killed or even wounded? Around the same time, Captain Bower was sent to arrest Balogun Ogedengbe at Ilesa. He stopped his men from actively resisting. The same Ogedengbe was the last person that operated militarily in the Benin and Delta area before the Yoruba civil war. He was arguably the last person to collect tribute from Benin probably on behalf of Ibadan.
Again the British did not really engage the Benin. There was nothing to engage as it was under Ibadan if not for the civil war. The British engaged the Ekumeku people. They even engaged the Nana Olomu of the Itsekiri but not the Benin. They engaged the Ijebu while allied with Ibadan and they had skirmishes in Ilorin. It is like the Oyo claiming to have engaged the British after the Ibadan had willingly allied with them. There was also a skirmish at Oyo. I think called the Pepe war or so if I remember right. What the British did in Benin was punitive. You can't call the engagement with the Itsekiri punitive in the same manner. The Nana Olomu stood in their way and the engagement was months long. The Ekumeku campaign was over thirty years long. I hope you now understand the difference.

The Ibadan monarchy can't be compared to Benin because it is a gerontocracy. Only old men become king in Ibadan and they rarely spend up to fifteen years on the throne maybe not even ten. Where you can compare to Benin are Ijesa, Akure, Ife and others. Not a gerontocracy like Ibadan. Any monarchy with more successions than Benin in Yoruba land is most probably older than Benin unless it is like Ibadan. There were quick successions in Oyo but such also happened in Benin. It is just something that happens once in a while. There was a King in Ile Ife that died the next morning after his coronation. He reigned for one day but it is cancelled out by another reputed to have reigned for centuries. There is also an Alaafin of Oyo that reigned for centuries. So it cancels out

Again a son of Orunmila founded Owo another founded Ijero, another Ara and etc etc. This is a known fact that any Yoruba elder worth his salt knows. However some of those cities are now ruled by Oduduwa people and if they count 33 kings in Owo then they started counting from when Oduduwa entered their line. Presently they claim to be descended from both Oduduwa and Orunmila and any of the two spirits can actually incarnate in them because of that. If they start counting from the first Olowo, then they will have almost 100 successions. That is for sure. The current Ile Ife is said to have had ninety kings in the successions before the last Oduduwa line started.
The point I was trying to make is that Owo was there with the same name and identity thousands of years before Benin or Ilesa became a thing. It already had it's odu and it was a living thing. Do you now understand?

Then Igodomigodo is not Benin. The names are different. The institutions governing the cities were different. The language most probably would have been different and the sites was probably not the same. Let us even say the sites were the same. There was a city too on the site of the current Ilesa. A well fortified city of a different name which I am yet to find out but it was ruled by a different dynasty. The fortifications of the old city are still visible. The city passed into the hands of the current dynasty after negotiations sealed with a treaty marriage and it became the Ijesa capital then many new people entered the city from different places and they took the name Ile ESA or Ilesa meaning the home of the specially chosen. People came from all over Yoruba land and became titled chiefs in the city. Can you now say the new city is the same as the old city? No. The old city was probably not even Ijesa. So Igodomigodo isn't Benin in exactly the same way.

IFA is documented history or do you think names mentioned in IFA were made up? An ifa verse I think in Irete meji mentioned the exact name of one person that became king in Benin. I think Sasore or so if I remember right. It is not until something is written down that it qualifies as documented history. Many lies are also written down. I believe things passed down from mouth to mouth over thousands of years can often be more reliable

As usual - the thread is turning into an ethnic/tribal argument, just like a lot of other threads on this platform. Sad to say but, there is no hope for Nigeria to progress!

In terms of education, no tribe can beat yoruba.

victoryenergy:
Then give us your own statistics to back your claim, because the only real ijaw state is bayelsa, and they have only 8 local government, though the ijaws are scattered all over the south mostly riverine areas, but if you look at their main base which is bayelsa, you can do your maths from there.

don't forget only eight local government, why ibibios occupies over 23 local government out of 31 local government in akwa ibom state, and they are also in every part of Nigeria.

I don't have time for this sir. Especially if your statistics is based on number of local governments.

Kano has 44 local government areas. Lagos has 20 local government area. Oyo State state has 33 local government areas. Your Ákwá Ibom has 31 local government area.

By your above logic, Kano, Oyo and Akwa Ibom etc are all more populated than Lagos since they all have almost twice the number of local governments Lagos have.
Is Ákwá Ibom more populated than Lagos since it has 31 LGA while Lagos has 20 LGA?

You are calculating number of local governments as metric for your population figure and mentioning only Bayelsa, that it has only 8 local governments. That is a very pedestrian logic for me especially since using that as proof of population.

Who told you Ijaws are only in Bayelsa?
Even in your Akwa Ibom, Ijaws are in about two local governments.
In Rivers, Ijaws have 11 exclusive local governments while sharing another two with Ikwere and others.
In Delta State, Ijaws are in 6 local governments and are the majority in Delta South.
In Edo, Ijaws are in 3 local governments of Edo South.
In Ondo State, Ijaws are in 3 local governments.

Though it means nothing in statistics but you see that even in the nonsense count of local governments as a proof of population, Ijaws still have more than Ibibios.

Finally, since you asked for a source, that I should bring my own even when you did not provide anything credible.

Go and check the National Population Commission census records of 2006. Ijaw is the fourth largest ethnic group in Nigeria.

National Population Commission is the only credible population data source in Nigeria.
If you disagree with them too, then I don't have anything to help you with again.

Maybe you will go and conduct your own census across Nigeria and publish the figures.

ChenHao23:
According to who? You?
Standarda are not measured by buildings ok!
My kid is among those that'll be participating in this year's OLYMPIAD and attend a South East domiciled school.
I guesa you live in Lagos....that could have informed your fallacy of generalization

Congrats to you and your family for tht feat i Still maintain what i said!

ReubenE:
I don't have time for this sir. Especially if your statistics is based on number of local governments.

Kano has 44 local government areas. Lagos has 20 local government area. Oyo State state has 33 local government areas. Your Ákwá Ibom has 31 local government area.

By your above logic, Kano, Oyo and Akwa Ibom etc are all more populated than Lagos since they all have almost twice the number of local governments Lagos have.
Is Ákwá Ibom more populated than Lagos since it has 31 LGA while Lagos has 20 LGA?

You are calculating number of local governments as metric for your population figure and mentioning only Bayelsa, that it has only 8 local governments. That is a very pedestrian logic for me especially since using that as proof of population.

Who told you Ijaws are only in Bayelsa?
Even in your Akwa Ibom, Ijaws are in about two local governments.
In Rivers, Ijaws have 11 exclusive local governments while sharing another two with Ikwere and others.
In Delta State, Ijaws are in 6 local governments and are the majority in Delta South.
In Edo, Ijaws are in 3 local governments of Edo South.
In Ondo State, Ijaws are in 3 local governments.

Though it means nothing in statistics but you see that even in the nonsense count of local governments as a proof of population, Ijaws still have more than Ibibios.

Finally, since you asked for a source, that I should bring my own even when you did not provide anything credible.

Go and check the National Population Commission census records of 2006. Ijaw is the fourth largest ethnic group in Nigeria.

National Population Commission is the only credible population data source in Nigeria.
If you disagree with them too, then I don't have anything to help you with again.

Maybe you will go and conduct your own census across Nigeria and publish the figures.

Why people don't agree with all this is you can hardly meet a Nigerian who has met more Ijaw than Akwa cross people or more Ijaw than Urhobo people and etc Which big city in Nigeria is under Ijaw control? I have never met an Ijaw person in Osun state. I have met maybe three Ijaws in total. One random student in OAU whose name I can't remember. He was my senior. One young man from Bayelsa who was a student at a private poly in Ife and a lady I met in 2001 or so when I was on IT in Owerri. Compare Igala. I have met 4 Igalas. One was my classmate at OAU, one a bus driver in Ilesa, one a fruit vendor in Lagos, one worked with me in Lekki. I think one MOPOL posted to the company I was at in Lekki is also Igala making five. There was also another that was our guard for a while in Ilesa, from his language he would be Igala making six

lawani:
Why people don't agree with all this is you can hardly meet a Nigerian who has met more Ijaw than Akwa cross people or more Ijaw than Urhobo people and etc Which big city in Nigeria is under Ijaw control? I have never met an Ijaw person in Osun state. I have met maybe three Ijaws in total. One random student in OAU whose name I can't remember. He was my senior. One young man from Bayelsa who was a student at a private poly in Ife and a lady I met in 2001 or so when I was on IT in Owerri. Compare Igala. I have met 4 Igalas. One was my classmate at OAU, one a bus driver in Ilesa, one a fruit vendor in Lagos, one worked with me in Lekki. I think one MOPOL posted to the company I was at in Lekki is also Igala making five. There was also another that was our guard for a while in Ilesa, from his language he would be Igala making six

From your story, there is proof that you are not an ordinary person but someone that has gained knowledge from academic training.

Now, seeing you base proof of population on the number of Ijaw people, Urhobo, Igala, Ibibios you have personally seen is very shocking to me.

My long message that you responded to ordinarily should have discouraged this line of thought but no, you came back with more absurdity.

But lemme indulge you.

I have seen and met more Idoma people than I have meet Ibibio people despite the fact I am from the South-South but live in the South-West. By your logic, should I conclude that Idoma people are more than Ibibios?

I see you are even comparing Urhobo to Ijaws. I am actually tired.

Thank you.

But lemme tell you. You seeing Ibibios may not be unconnected to them popularly doing menial jobs outside their area - like house help, sales girls, cooking and all that.

Lemme go to your southwest. Ijaws are not just in your southwest. They don't reside in the southwest like the few Ibibios you said you have seen, in some, Ijaws are actually part of the structure of the state. They are aborigines in Ondo State with their local government and kingdoms. That is one state out of the six.

In Lagos, you don't just see Ijaws like you see Ibibios one or two at a place scattered. There are actually concentration of Ijaw areas.
I mean almost full communities of Ijaws concentrated at a place, from around Ikorodu, to Èbúté Mẹta axis, to Ojo, Badagry etc.

Then in Ogun State, the same thing.

They may not be so much in Osun State and Ekiti like they are fully concentrated elsewhere. So your basis for claiming Ibibio or Urhobo may be more than Ijaw is still faulty.

Are you aware that the Ijaw kingdom of Bille people are part of the structure of Adamawa state. Like Ijaw people who are indigenes of Adamawa.

Again, the only and official source of population data in Nigeria is the National Population Commission, and their data from the 2006 census makes Ijaw the fourth largest ethnic group in Nigeria.
Until there is another record from them, there is nothing you can do even if your feelings tell you otherwise

Fulani no pass 0.5%. abeg no vex o.

ReubenE:
From your story, there is proof that you are not an ordinary person but someone that has gained knowledge from academic training.

Now, seeing you base proof of population on the number of Ijaw people, Urhobo, Igala, Ibibios you have personally seen is very shocking to me.

My long message that you responded to ordinarily should have discouraged this line of thought but no, you came back with more absurdity.

But lemme indulge you.

I have seen and met more Idoma people than I have meet Ibibio people despite the fact I am from the South-South but live in the South-West. By your logic, should I conclude that Idoma people are more than Ibibios?

I see you are even comparing Urhobo to Ijaws. I am actually tired.

Thank you.

But lemme tell you. You seeing Ibibios may not be unconnected to them popularly doing menial jobs outside their area - like house help, sales girls, cooking and all that.

Lemme go to your southwest. Ijaws are not just in your southwest. They don't reside in the southwest like the few Ibibios you said you have seen, in some, Ijaws are actually part of the structure of the state. They are aborigines in Ondo State with their local government and kingdoms. That is one state out of the six.

In Lagos, you don't just see Ijaws like you see Ibibios one or two at a place scattered. There are actually concentration of Ijaw areas.
I mean almost full communities of Ijaws concentrated at a place, from around Ikorodu, to Èbúté Mẹta axis, to Ojo, Badagry etc.

Then in Ogun State, the same thing.

They may not be so much in Osun State and Ekiti like they are fully concentrated elsewhere. So your basis for claiming Ibibio or Urhobo may be more than Ijaw is still faulty.

Are you aware that the Ijaw kingdom of Bille people are part of the structure of Adamawa state. Like Ijaw people who are indigenes of Adamawa.

Again, the only and official source of population data in Nigeria is the National Population Commission, and their data from the 2006 census makes Ijaw the fourth largest ethnic group in Nigeria.
Until there is another record from them, there is nothing you can do even if your feelings tell you otherwise

For the Ijesa

There are between 350 and 400 settlements with at least four over 50k in population and the biggest one is Ilesa a well known city in Africa.
Osogbo is an Ijesa founded city and the royal family is Ijesa, the land is also contiguous with the rest of Ijesa. The title of Deji of Akure was inaugurated by Ijesa though not the city itself. The Ijesa founded Lagos Island alongside the Benin and the present dynasty is descended from the Ijesa priest that accompanied them etc etc.

If there is an Ijesa country today and Osogbo is added to it then the population today will be around 3 million.

If there is an Ijaw country what will be the population and which cities are the major cities? That is the real thing that matters

If there is say an Igala country today, the population will be around 4 million or over and that is not small by any means. Their towns include Idah, Ayangba, Ankpa etc. They are enough by Nigerian standards to have 3 senators.

Can you do the same analysis for Ijaw?

Kogi including Igala have probably the most scattered indigenes in Nigeria. Nigeria scattered them by giving them shortage in state creation. Ijesa too is the same

A huge percentage of Kogi indigenes including Igala don't even live on their land explaining why I have encountered many of them

From data available and assuming all Nigerians from different states sit for the UTME at the same rate and given the fact 2,243,816 students sat for the UTME across the country in 2026 then Kogi state deserves only 0.75 states if shared by residents and around 1.5 states if shared by indigenes if the total number of states is 36

lawani:
For the Ijesa

There are between 350 and 400 settlements with at least four over 50k in population and the biggest one is Ilesa a well known city in Africa.
Osogbo is an Ijesa founded city and the royal family is Ijesa, the land is also contiguous with the rest of Ijesa. The title of Deji of Akure was inaugurated by Ijesa though not the city itself. The Ijesa founded Lagos Island alongside the Benin and the present dynasty is descended from the Ijesa priest that accompanied them etc etc.

If there is an Ijesa country today and Osogbo is added to it then the population today will be around 3 million.

If there is an Ijaw country what will be the population and which cities are the major cities? That is the real thing that matters

If there is say an Igala country today, the population will be around 4 million or over and that is not small by any means. Their towns include Idah, Ayangba, Ankpa etc. They are enough by Nigerian standards to have 3 senators.

Can you do the same analysis for Ijaw?

Kogi including Igala have probably the most scattered indigenes in Nigeria. Nigeria scattered them by giving them shortage in state creation. Ijesa too is the same

A huge percentage of Kogi indigenes including Igala don't even live on their land explaining why I have encountered many of them

From data available and assuming all Nigerians from different states sit for the UTME at the same rate and given the fact 2,243,816 students sat for the UTME across the country in 2026 then Kogi state deserves only 0.75 states if shared by residents and around 1.5 states if shared by indigenes if the total number of states is 36

Have a good day my friend.

This your new response is even worse than the former ones. I say so with respect to your person.

Even the Ijaw clans of Kalabari, Okrika, Ibani, Abua etc in Rivers alone will dwarf whatever you are pointing to in this your absurd response.

Again, we are done with the back and forth.

Have a good afternoon sir