₦airaland Forum

I'm posting you this so you know I'm not suggesting a country be ruled by any religion.

They might ban atheists like me if I let them..


https://www.nairaland.com/8698113/best-ruling-system-all-countries#139828865

Kobojunkie:
1. You are wrong in your thinking! Every nation is underpinneed by some moral code, and this code can be sourced from various existing sources or cooked up by the individual(s) in charge of drafting the constitution. "Abundance of minds" has never been a requirement for this.

2. No single nation/civilization on the planet has been built thus far by a combination of Islamic, Christian, and traditional ideals. Not one! As a matter of fact, the Islamic political system makes that feat near impossible to achieve.

3. As it stands, the best civilizations on earth to date have been realized through the separation of religious ideals, with Islam producing some of the worst of them. Man has learned through blood and tears that keeping religion separate and contained is the best future for all. There is absolutely no reason to waste more human blood and effort on trying to change that after all that history has taught us, and continues to

4. Christianity refers to the very same religion codified in the Nicene by the Romans.

budaatum:
➜I'm posting you this so you know I'm not suggesting a country be ruled by any religion. ➜ They might ban atheists like me if I let them.. https://www.nairaland.com/8698113/best-ruling-system-all-countries#139828865

Countries can be ruled, in some cases, by a religion. We see that happening out in the middle east with terrible results so far. The Vatican is a whole nother story entirely.

➜ Nonsense! History instead has it that it was the vast majority of countries built upon a foundation that is the religion of atheism killed the most people in the last century alone.

If as an athiest, you wish to live under atheistic rule, then by all means, move to one of the many socialist/communist countries out there where atheism is recognized as pretty much the national religion or something. Otherwise, learn to keep your religion to yourself, accept and respect the law as is.

Kobojunkie:
If as an athiest, you wish to live under atheistic rule, then by all means, move to one....

We are talking about Nigeria, and no, I do not want Nigeria to be an atheist country so I can live there! Everyone does not need to worship athe for me to dwell amongst them.

I am simply suggesting the we evolve our current moral framework, which involves our religions, and evolve a better framework out if it that works for us.

budaatum:
➜We are talking about Nigeria, and no, I do not want Nigeria to be an atheist country so I can live there! Everyone does not need to worship athe for me to dwell amongst them.
➜ I am simply suggesting the we evolve our current moral framework, which involves our religions, and evolve a better framework out if it that works for us.

1. Talking about Nigeria, the same country that Islamists are attempting to turn into a wholly Islamic nation at this point in time?

2. Evolve the current moral framework which elevates Sharia to a status above other religions(it is literally embeded in the Constitution) to a better framework? Any ideas as to what that framework should adopt at this point in time?

I wonder who you mean by Islamists. We have Muslims all over Yoruba land, and the majority know it is our custom to live amongst people who worship other gods without imposing any god on anyone, despite the pronouncements of a few. That said, care to show me where sharia is "literally embedded in the Constitution"?

A framework that incorporates the moral teachings from all our religions can not be sharia.

Kobojunkie:
1. Talking about Nigeria, the same country that Islamists are attempting to turn into a wholly Islamic nation at this point in time?

2. Evolve the current moral framework which elevates Sharia to a status above other religions(it is literally embeded in the Constitution) to a better framework? Any ideas as to what that framework should adopt at this point in time?

Kobojunkie:
Countries can be ruled, in some cases, by a religion. We see that happening out in the middle east with terrible results so far. The Vatican is a whole nother story entirely.

➜ Nonsense! History instead has it that it was the vast majority of countries built upon a foundation that is the religion of atheism killed the most people in the last century alone.

If as an athiest, you wish to live under atheistic rule, then by all means, move to one of the many socialist/communist countries out there where atheism is recognized as pretty much the national religion or something. Otherwise, learn to keep your religion to yourself, accept and respect the law as is.

Trust someone like you to conflate atheism with communism. Does religion brainwash y'all to be disseminators of ignorance?

budaatum:
✓ I wonder who you mean by Islamists. We have Muslims all over Yoruba land, and the majority know it is our custom to live amongst people who worship other gods without imposing any god on anyone, despite the pronouncements of a few.
✓ That said, care to show me where Sharia is "literally embedded in the Constitution"?
✓ A framework that incorporates the moral teachings from all our religions can not be sharia.

I loathe the ridiculous storytelling you lot love to engage in. 🙄

Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso, etc, are over 90% Islamists, yet every single day we read of Islamic massacres there daily. The excuse used in Islam to murder other Islamists is referred to as Taqfir, which renders halal all killing of fellow Islamists. So, exactly what does it matter to this or any other thread that Yoruba's choose to live in peace[/i]V with others when Islamism makes killing them fair game? 🤔

2. You could have easily gotten the answer to this with a simple Google search. Why didn't you? I am honestly shocked that you have not explored the country's Constitution until now, even with all the hullabaloo going on.

See [i]sections 275 through 279 of the document🤔

The framers of that document intentionally added those clauses to ensure the failure of the system from the beginning. Section 10, the Secular Clause, states that the Government of the Federation or State shall not adopt any religion as the State religion. Yet, in the very same document, you find the same constitution allowing the establishment of Sharia courts, basically enshrining the religion and Sharia, and ultimately the two-tier policing system, aiding in the destruction of the nation. 🤔

3. That is the silliest thing I have ever read. You do know that the moral framework of Islam allows for your use as a sex slave(to be sold to the next man when no longer needed) or beheading, since you claim to believe in no deity -- you do not qualify as a Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian who can be offered the choice of Jizya. The same moral framework also insists that a woman is deficient in mind, going as far as to suggest the witness of one man is worth that of two women(it only gets worse from there on). So, what aspect of that framework appeals to you? 🤔

LordReed:
✓ Trust someone like you to conflate atheism with communism. Does religion brainwash y'all to be disseminators of ignorance?

You are not going to get me to fuel your feel-good delusions here. 🤔

Kobojunkie:
You are not going to get me to fuel your feel-good delusions here. 🤔

LoLz. Bro you show YOUR delusion by YOUR ignorance.

Kobojunkie:
I loathe the ridiculous storytelling you lot love to engage in. 🙄

Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Niger, Burkina Faso, etc, are over 90% Islamists, yet every single day we read of Islamic massacres there daily. The excuse used in Islam to murder other Islamists is referred to as Taqfir, which renders halal all killing of fellow Islamists.
So, exactly what does it matter to this or any other thread that Yoruba's choose to live in peace[/i]V with others when Islamism makes killing them fair game? 🤔

It matters to me and millions of others who do not believe that Muslims are out to Taqfir. You yourself said, "the excuse used in Islam to murder other Islamists", but I'm certain you know Muslims who have no intention of murdering anyone so do not need to fabricate a stupid excuse.

Kobojunkie:
I
2. See [i]sections 275 through 279 of the document🤔
The framers of that document intentionally added those clauses to ensure the failure of the system from the beginning. Section 10, the Secular Clause, states that the Government of the Federation or State shall not adopt any religion as the State religion. Yet, in the very same document, you find the same constitution allowing the establishment of Sharia courts, basically enshrining the religion and Sharia, and ultimately the two-tier policing system, aiding in the destruction of the nation. 🤔

Chapter 7. Part 2. Section 280. Allows for the establishment of a Customary Court of Appeal. Is that also to two tier and aid the destruction of the nation, or a recognition of our diversity?

Thankfully, it is still subject to the voters of the state whether they vote for Sharia or Custom imposition or not, and most Muslims in Yoruba land, at least, wouldn't vote for sharia, not to talk of my Ogun and Sango and Osun and Yahweh worshippers.

Kobojunkie:
You do know that the moral framework of Islam allows for your use as a sex slave(to be sold to the next man when no longer needed) or beheading, since you claim to believe in no deity -- you do not qualify as a Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian who can be offered the choice of Jizya. What aspect of that framework appeals to you? 🤔

Actually, I know no such nonsense. And if I knew and believed this togwash, that Islam allows Muslims to sell me to a man as a sex slave, I wouldn't have elected Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan as my Mayor! Perhaps tell me in which Muslim countries this is legal so I can be informed.

As to a framework that might appeal to me in any religion or ideology or philosophy, it's the aspect that encourages brain use, as I have no interest in everyone being atheist or Muslim or Christian or whatever in particular so long as they have brains in their heads and use it.

budaatum:
➜It matters to me and millions of others who do not believe that Muslims are out to Taqfir. You yourself said, "the excuse used in Islam to murder other Islamists",
➜ but I'm certain you know Muslims who have no intention of murdering anyone so do not need to fabricate a stupid excuse.
➜ Chapter 7. Part 2. Section 280. Allows for the establishment of a Customary Court of Appeal. Is that also to two tier and aid the destruction of the nation, or a recognition of our diversity?
➜ Thankfully, it is still subject to the voters of the state whether they vote for Sharia or Custom imposition or not,
➜ and most Muslims in Yoruba land, at least, wouldn't vote for sharia, not to talk of my Ogun and Sango and Osun and Yahweh worshippers.
➜ Actually, I know no such nonsense. And if I knew and believed this togwash, that Islam allows Muslims to sell me to a man as a sex slave, I wouldn't have elected Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan as my Mayor! Perhaps tell me in which Muslim countries this is legal so I can be informed.
➜ As to a framework that might appeal to me in any religion or ideology or philosophy, it's the aspect that encourages brain use, as I have no interest in everyone being atheist or Muslim or Christian or whatever in particular so long as they have brains in their heads and use it.

1. Do you not believe what keeps happening every day in front of your eyes... the kidnappings and killings happening even right there in Yoruba land and increasing over time? OK! 😒

I mean, I get that you may not have considered it much when it was only happening in other parts of the country. However, now that it has literally become commonplace in even your Yoruba land, are you sincerely telling us that you still refuse to listen to all that the perpetrators of these acts continue to say? 😒

2. I don't give a Bleep about or pay attention to those given that those of them who do have caused and continue to cause more deaths than can be ignored. 🤔

3. The customary court of appeal is subject to the laws of the land; Sharia isn't. Sharia is literally a legal framework, complete with its own criminal code that does not respect any other criminal codes and law enforcement, including the one established by the Constitution of Nigeria. 😒

4. Yet, not a single person, even in the state of Kano, remembers ever voting during a public referendum to have Sharia installed in the state. Interesting conclusions you make! 😒

5. There were no public referendums in the North on whether to have Sharia or not. Even the recent push for Sharia in Kwara State(a formerly Yoruba state) was without the consent of the public. (Oyo, another Yoruba State, is probably next on the list.) But, of course, you must magically cling to the delusion that you have some choice in it all to delude yourself with. 😒

6. I should tell you which countries, because doing your own research or actually reading the Islamic books for yourself is beyond you? 😒

7. You mean like the aspect that discourages the questioning of anything or the part that tells women their witness is equal to half of a man because their mind is deficient... that aspect encourages brain use?

You mentioned you wanted a framework that included aspects from all religions, and I was wondering where in the world that came from. Is it from ignorance of the moral teachings of religions or just the regular warehouse of brain farts?

LordReed:
➜LoLz. Bro you show YOUR delusion by YOUR ignorance.

This coming from the one who has yet to realize that the core framework in communist/socialist/marxist regimes out there is drawn from atheism, the only acceptable religion in such regimes, thanks to Karl Marx himself?

Kobojunkie:
This coming from the one who has yet to realize that the core framework in communist/socialist/marxist regimes out there is drawn from atheism, the only acceptable religion in such regimes, thanks to Karl Marx himself?

This is like arguing that because a building made of wood has a concrete foundation therefore the building is a concrete building. Atheism being foundational to Marxist thinking doesn't make atheism and communism synonymous. The funny thing is even religious communes follow the same communist pattern so does that make them atheist?

LordReed:
➜.... The funny thing is even religious communes follow the same communist pattern so does that make them atheist?

Care to name one religious commune that does not follow the atheistic ideology but is clearly communistic in pattern?

Kobojunkie:
1. Do you not believe what keeps happening every day in front of your eyes... the kidnappings and killings happening even right there in Yoruba land and increasing over time? OK! 😒

Kidnapping and killings happening in front of me in my own Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun in Yoruba land has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, but with idiots in my town and the neighbours in Ilobu killing each other over land. So I guess I hear that more.

Kobojunkie:
2. I don't give a Bleep about or pay attention to those given that those of them who do have caused and continue to cause more deaths than can be ignored. 🤔

So you sweep everyone with your brush of generalisation and condemn all?

Sorry my mind don't work that way.

Kobojunkie:
3. The customary court of appeal is subject to the laws of the land; Sharia isn't. Sharia is literally a legal framework, complete with its own criminal code that does not respect any other criminal codes and law enforcement, including the one established by the Constitution of Nigeria. 😒

This is not true. You can appeal a judgement in a sharia court in Nigeria in the court of appeals

Kobojunkie:
4. Yet, not a single person, even in the state of Kano, remembers ever voting during a public referendum to have Sharia installed in the state. Interesting conclusions you make! 😒

Were they asleep when they elected people who imposed Sharia on them?

Kobojunkie:
5. There were no public referendums in the North on whether to have Sharia or not.

They voted in an election, and elected those who would impose Sharia on them!

Kobojunkie:
6. I should tell you which countries, because doing your own research or actually reading the Islamic books for yourself is beyond you? 😒

What you mean is you lack evidence for your lie.

Noted.

Kobojunkie:
7. You mean like the aspect that discourages the questioning of anything or the part that tells women their witness is equal to half of a man because their mind is deficient... that aspect encourages brain use?

The evolution of those aspects, since most Muslims are not in the dark ages of Afghanistan which most Muslims and people do not support.

Most religions have similar arcane ideologies written into their books. Thankfully most religious people don't adhere to whatever suggests the backwardness.

Kobojunkie:
1.You mentioned you wanted a framework that included aspects from all religions,

Perhaps read it as aspects contributed by all regardless of their religions. I'd not want some forms of Sharia just as I wouldn't want to be ignorant Adam in Eden, and nor do I fear any such nonsense can be imposed on Nigerians.

budaatum:
➜ Kidnapping and killings happening in front of me in my own Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun in Yoruba land has nothing to do with Islam or Muslims, but with idiots in my town and the neighbours in Ilobu killing each other over land. So I guess I hear that more.
➜ So you sweep everyone with your brush of generalisation and condemn all? Sorry my mind don't work that way.
➜ This is not true. You can appeal a judgement in a sharia court in Nigeria in the court of appeals
➜ Were they asleep when they elected people who imposed Sharia on them?
➜ They voted in an election, and elected those who would impose Sharia on them!
➜ What you mean is you lack evidence for your lie. Noted.
➜ The evolution of those aspects, since most Muslims are not in the dark ages of Afghanistan which most Muslims and people do not support.
Most religions have similar arcane ideologies written into their books. Thankfully most religious people don't adhere to whatever suggests the backwardness.
➜ Perhaps read it as aspects contributed by all regardless of their religions. I'd not want some forms of Sharia just as I wouldn't want to be ignorant Adam in Eden, and nor do I fear any such nonsense can be imposed on Nigerians.

1. WOW... so the Fulani herders captured the Osun state the other day, are your towns' members? 😒😒😒

2. "I don't give a flying Bleep about them" means I generalize about them? Interesting shift in your understanding of common grammar! I see how your mind works instead to twist what is said into what it is not! 😒

3. Like Deborah was able to appeal the fatwa against her before she was burnt to ashes, right?

4. I see! It is the people's fault that they never got to choose whether or not to have sharia imposed on them, even by those they elected, without sharia being an issue on the ballot at the time? 😒

5. Ah! So, it is their fault that the constitution allows for Sharia, which was then imposed on them with no choice to have it taken away! I see! 😒

So, are the people in Kwara also to blame for Sharia taking over their state without their consent? Why am I even asking this? 😒

6. Oh, I see! The 40 million slaves that exist today, many of them women in places like Libya and other parts of the Islamic world who live as sex slaves, the rape gangs reported in parts of Europe, including the UK, all do not exist because you refuse to accept such things are real? I see!😒
https://www.dw.com/en/un-backed-probe-finds-proof-of-torture-sex-slavery-in-libya/a-65139276

7. I see! Afghanistan, which only some years back resembled a Western country, is now back in the dark ages, but somehow you are convinced that could never happen in other equally Islamic states of today...just because...
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGld4ByheeU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

8. The question is simple! What aspects of the Sharia framework would you want?

Kobojunkie:
8. The question is simple! What aspects of the Sharia framework would you want?

None. Islam is not only about Sharia law, just as Christianity is not only about the ten comnmandments!

One can not eliminate religion from Nigerian governance yet, so I am willing to compromise. Hope we can soon though.

Kobojunkie:
Care to name one religious commune that does not follow the atheistic ideology but is clearly communistic in pattern?

Let's start here.

LordReed:
➜Let's start here.

So, it is no longer about basing the meaning of the term Communism/Socialism/Marxism on the idea invented by Karl Marx, but instead insisting that it should now be based on any idea that is based on the root word for Community, i.e., Commune.

The word commune comes from the Latin root word communis, meaning "common, public, or shared by all or many". It combines the prefix con- ("together" with munis (which relates to performing duties or services).

Basically, you are willing to conflate different terms to push this notion of yours forward?

Kobojunkie:
So, it is no longer about basing the meaning of the term Communism/Socialism/Marxism on the idea invented by Karl Marx, but instead insisting that it should now be based on any idea that is based on the root word for Community, i.e., Commune.


Basically, you are willing to conflate different terms to push this notion of yours forward?

Bro just admit you don't even know what communism is because you are making your ignorance obvious. Marxist ideas of communism are a subset. There are other forms of communism but your arrogant ignorance won't let you learn. Sad.

LordReed:
➜Bro just admit you don't even know what communism is because you are making your ignorance obvious. Marxist ideas of communism are a subset. There are other forms of communism but your arrogant ignorance won't let you learn. Sad.

Excuse you! I specifically claimed that the religion on which Communism/Socialism/Marxism are built off of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, is atheism. You claimed that was not the case and proceeded to suggest that Marxism can indeed be based on other religions. So, what in the world are you doing now? And why?

Kobojunkie:
Excuse you! I specifically claimed that the religion on which Communism/Socialism/Marxism are built off of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto, is atheism. You claimed that was not the case and proceeded to suggest that Marxism can indeed be based on other religions. So, what in the world are you doing now? And why?

Kindly show where I claimed that Marxism can be based on other religion. You have become so discombobulated you have resorted to lies. LoLz.

BTW here is the post I initially responded to

Kobojunkie:
If as an athiest, you wish to live under atheistic rule, then by all means, move to one of the many socialist/communist countries out there where atheism is recognized as pretty much the national religion or something. Otherwise, learn to keep your religion to yourself, accept and respect the law as is.

Point out where you mentioned "Communism/Socialism/Marxism are built off of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto".

You are so desperate to hang on to your ignorance you've taken up lying. Pitiful.

LordReed:
You are so desperate to hang on to your ignorance you've taken up lying. Pitiful.

You noticed too, my Lord.

LordReed:
Kindly show where I claimed that Marxism can be based on other religion. You have become so discombobulated you have resorted to lies. LoLz. BTW here is the post I initially responded to Point out where you mentioned "Communism/Socialism/Marxism are built off of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto". You are so desperate to hang on to your ignorance you've taken up lying. Pitiful.

This happens to be the comment you responded to...

Kobojunkie:
Countries can be ruled, in some cases, by a religion. We see that happening out in the middle east with terrible results so far. The Vatican is a whole nother story entirely.
➜ Nonsense! History instead has it that it was the vast majority of countries built upon a foundation that is the religion of atheism killed the most people in the last century alone.
If as an athiest, you wish to live under atheistic rule, then by all means, move to one of the many socialist/communist countries out there where atheism is recognized as pretty much the national religion or something. Otherwise, learn to keep your religion to yourself, accept and respect the law as is.

...complete with the picture attached, listing only Socialist/Communist/Marxist countries(all of which boast of implementing the communist manifesto as foundational ideology for at least the party that rules the system) from just the last century. Are you seriously wanting us to now believe you are suddenly drawing a blank on how this all started? 😒

Kobojunkie:
This happens to be the comment you responded to......complete with the picture attached, listing only Socialist/Communist/Marxist countries(all of which boast of implementing the communist manifesto as foundational ideology for at least the party that rules the system) from just the last century. Are you seriously wanting us to now believe you are suddenly drawing a blank on how this all started? 😒

Bro you lied. You made a false claim about me and you made a false claim about what you wrote.

I have addressed why atheism is not synonymous with communism but sure keep holding on to your ignorance.

budaatum:
You noticed too, my Lord.

It was glaring my dear buda. It is seems that ignorance is the primary tool for radicalisation.

LordReed:
✓ Bro you lied. You made a false claim about me and you made a false claim about what you wrote.
I have addressed why atheism is not synonymous with communism but sure keep holding on to your ignorance.

You have not shown or proven the lie but also accusing me of lying! You attempted dribbling your way around what was stated to claim what was not. This is exactly the way religious folks approach issues. 🙄🙄

LordReed:
It was glaring my dear buda. It is seems that ignorance is the primary tool for radicalisation.

It's not glaring to him who thinks he's the only one talking sense. But I guess that's the definition of ignorance.

Learn more about 👉🏿👉🏿👉🏿


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMuYVKga3g

Kobojunkie:
You have not shown or proven the lie but also accusing me of lying! You attempted dribbling your way around what was stated to claim what was not. This is exactly the way religious folks approach issues. 🙄🙄

You lied and you cannot show where I said what you claimed nor can you show what you claim you said. It is funny how the religious mind works when asked to provide evidence for their claims. You made a claim now you cannot provide evidence of the claim. When I ask you you for evidence you try to reverse the burden. What a laugh.

budaatum:
It's not glaring to him who thinks he's the only one talking sense. But I guess that's the definition of ignorance.

LoLz. Can you imagine, I ask for evidence of what he claims and he tries to reverse the burden. Bwahahahahaha!

I swear religion rots the minds of some of these folks.

Kobojunkie:
You have not shown or proven the lie but also accusing me of lying! You attempted dribbling your way around what was stated to claim what was not. This is exactly the way religious folks approach issues. 🙄🙄

Folks who argue that a majority of a population is what matters were answered eloquently here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-vvoRwJSPc


It's a tactic used to downplay the actions of militants in Islamic abd communist systems.