₦airaland Forum

Christians often point to David as a man after God's own heart and the Bible as a source of objective morality. However, passages like 1 Samuel 18:25-27 feature God's chosen king collecting the severed body parts of 200 dead enemies just to pay a dowry. Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry.

How do you reconcile a holy God favoring a leader who engages in this kind of graphic warfare and humiliation?

King Saul made this very request not God. If you are not being deceptive the text explicitly said Saul devised this plan because he wanted David to die in battle. But to his surprise David fulfilled his demand. The passage does not say God commanded the collection of foreskins or commended David for doing so, also it occurred during a wartime.

Israel and the Philistines were in a prolonged military conflict. The foreskins was more like a proof that the slain enemies were uncircumcised Philistines, because dem no dey gree circumcise then, making it an evidence that David had indeed completed the task.

"A man after God's own heart" no mean say David dey morally perfect. It is not a claim that every action David took reflected God's ideal moral standard. David did not shout OH GOD!! while slaying these enemies, God no direct am or promise am virgins to do so.

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God shows mercy and favor on whomever he wants.


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brain54:
➜::: God shows mercy and favor on whomever he wants. :::

Favor and mercy on what grounds in this case? Did David sin against the YHWH of Israel by killing and mutilating the bodies of the dead enemies --- cutting off their heads or, in this case, dicks ---of Israel? If yes, where in the Law of Moses is this sin tabled? If not, then why mention favor and mercy?

Kobojunkie:
Favor and mercy on what grounds in this case? Did David sin against the YHWH of Israel by killing and mutilating the bodies of the dead enemies of Israel? If yes, where in the Law of Moses is this sin tabled? If not, then why mention favor and mercy?

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Okay sorry o. God doesn't show mercy and favor to whom he pleases.


No vex.



:::

"Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry"
THAT SAME WAY, WE SHALL TAKE THE "joysticks" OF HEZBOLLAH, HAMAS, ISIS, BOKOHARAM , ISWAP AND IRAN TO IRAN AND TO THE DEMOCRATS IN THE U.S.

"Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry"
THAT SAME WAY, WE SHALL TAKE THE "joysticks" OF HEZBOLLAH, HAMAS, ISIS, BOKOHARAM , ISWAP AND IRAN TO IRAN

brain54:
:::Okay sorry o. God doesn't show mercy and favor to whom he pleases. No vex. :::

Weird! I thought your post was meant as a sort of Christian retort to the OP... you know, the Christian insinuation that favor and mercy apply to sinners. Why else would you state that?

YES I CAN DEFEND IT. AS IN THOU SHALL NOT BE JEALOUS BECAUSE ONLY I, GOD, CAN BE JEALOUS. THOU SHALL NOT KILL NOR STEAL UNLESS YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD AUTHORISED BY GOD TO DEAL IN THAT WAY WITH YOUR ENEMIES.

Jakarta:
King Saul made this very request not God. If you are not deceptive the text explicitly said Saul devised this plan because he wanted David to die in battle. But to his surprise David fulfilled his demand. The passage does not say God commanded the collection of foreskins or commended David for doing so, also it occurred during a wartime.

Israel and the Philistines were in a prolonged military conflict. The foreskins was more like proof that the slain enemies were uncircumcised Philistines, because dem no dey gree circumcise then, making it an evidence that David had indeed completed the task.

"A man after God's own heart" no mean say David dey morally perfect. It is not a claim that every action David took reflected God's ideal moral standard. David did not shout OH GOD!! while slaying these enemies, God no direct am or promise am virgins to do so.

Very clear but trust evu people to turn it evil

chatinent:
Christians often point to David as a man after God's own heart and the Bible as a source of objective morality...

When the bible described him as a man after God's heart what wrong had he done then?

And what is wrong in over destroying and over disgracing enemies?

brain54:
:::


Okay sorry o. God doesn't show mercy and favor to whom he pleases.


No vex.



:::

You don't seem to understand what kobojunkie is telling you, and he himself does not understand that you did not get his points.

What he's trying to tell you is that David didn't sin in the first place to warrant any favor or mercy for sins. He's accusing you of making David a sinner by your statement. He is not condemning the fact that sinners can get mercy from God. He's condemning your position that makes David a sinner for doing Saul's bidding at the risk of his own life.

FxMasterz:
You don't seem to understand what kobojunkie is telling you, and he himself does not understand that you did not get his points.

What he's trying to tell you is that David didn't sin in the first place to warrant any favor or mercy for sins. He's accusing you of making David a sinner by your statement. He is not confirming the fact that sinners can get mercy from God. He condemning your position that makes David a sinner for doing Saul's bidding at the risk of his own life.

I believe he understands but he is just saying that he won't argue with him

brain54:
:::


God shows mercy and favor on whomever he wants.


:::

So he's elitist?
He's not all loving then

Dtruthspeaker:
I believe he understands but he is just saying that he won't argue with him

Oh, okay.

FxMasterz:
You don't seem to understand what kobojunkie is telling you, and he himself does not understand that you did not get his points.

What he's trying to tell you is that David didn't sin in the first place to warrant any favor or mercy for sins. He's accusing you of making David a sinner by your statement. He is not condemning the fact that sinners can get mercy from God. He's condemning your position that makes David a sinner for doing Saul's bidding at the risk of his own life.

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I didn't say David was a sinner.


I responded to the portion referring to David as man after God's heart


What I did was go straight to the conclusion of the op's conversation by saying God shows mercy and favor to whom he pleases wether sin or not as no man can be perfect. David himself showed remorse on many occasions for his sins.


I didn't say or didn't say what David did by mutilating the foreskins of Philistines was a sin. What I was interested in was that God shows mercy and favor irrespective... because he is God. And that was a direct quote from Himself.


It's Kobo that didn't understand what I meant. And sometimes I think he just picks comments just to deliberately look for what to debate about.


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jaephoenix:
➜So he's elitist? He's not all loving then

The book never in fact states that the God of Israel was an all-loving God. Not one passage or verse in all of the books of the Israelite Scripture claims His love extends to all of mankind. Rather, the idea that he loves all mankind was invented in religious circles.

Another thing is that the YHWH of Israel's definition of love differs entirely from yours or that of many religions out there. Something else to keep in mind. For instance, if you are under the idea that YHWH of Israel's love would treat your dead body in what humans describe as a humane, then you are entirely wrong.

brain54:
➜I didn't say David was a sinner. I responded to the portion referring to David as man after God's heart
What I did was go straight to the conclusion of the op's conversation by saying God shows mercy and favor to whom he pleases wether sin or not as no man can be perfect. David himself showed remorse on many occasions for his sins.
I didn't say or didn't say what David did by mutilating the foreskins of Philistines was a sin. What I was interested in was that God shows mercy and favor irrespective... because he is God. And that was a direct quote from Himself.
It's Kobo that didn't understand what I meant. And sometimes I think he just picks comments just to deliberately look for what to debate about.

Are you saying that your meaning was that David would have been favored whether or not he had sinned by the act of mutilating dead bodies?

Kobojunkie:
Are you saying that your meaning was that David would have been favored whether or not he had sinned by the act of mutilating dead bodies?

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What I have said and gone further to explain is up there. If you read it and still can't understand it then sorry I can't help you sir.


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Kobojunkie:
The book never in fact states that the God of Israel was an all-loving God. Not one passage or verse in all of the books of the Israelite Scripture claims His love extends to all of mankind. Rather, the idea that he loves all mankind was invented in religious circles.

Another thing is that the YHWH of Israel's definition of love differs entirely from yours or that of many religions out there. Something else to keep in mind. For instance, if you are under the idea that YHWH of Israel's love would treat your dead body in what humans describe as a humane, then you are entirely wrong.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Psalm 36:5–7
Your steadfast love, O LORD, extends to the heavens,
your faithfulness to the clouds.
Your righteousness is like the mountains of God;
your judgments are like the great deep;
man and beast you save, O LORD.

Romans 8:35–39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

jaephoenix:
➜John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life
Psalm 36:5–7
Your steadfast love, O LORD, extends to the heavens,
your faithfulness to the clouds.
Your righteousness is like the mountains of God;
your judgments are like the great deep;
man and beast you save, O LORD.
Romans 8:35–39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

1. The first verse is the most famous, which points out that the world(a figurative metonymy) is a reference to the Israelites in the context of John 3 vs 13 - 16.

Again, the notion that the YHWH OF Israel loves mankind is all created from religion.

brain54:
:::


I didn't say David was a sinner.


I responded to the portion referring to David as man after God's heart


What I did was go straight to the conclusion of the op's conversation by saying God shows mercy and favor to whom he pleases wether sin or not as no man can be perfect. David himself showed remorse on many occasions for his sins.


I didn't say or didn't say what David did by mutilating the foreskins of Philistines was a sin. What I was interested in was that God shows mercy and favor irrespective... because he is God. And that was a direct quote from Himself.


It's Kobo that didn't understand what I meant. And sometimes I think he just picks comments just to deliberately look for what to debate about.


:::

Oh, I see.

Kobojunkie:
1. The first verse is the most famous, which points out that the world(a figurative metonymy) is a reference to the Israelites in the context of John 3 vs 13 - 16.

Again, the notion that the YHWH OF Israel loves mankind is all created from religion.

So how do u know its a figurative metonynm since it wasnt stated there

jaephoenix:
➜So how do u know its a figurative metonynm since it wasnt stated there

The exact same way you can differentiate figurative speech from literal speech in other texts written in the same language that you read yours in. Figures of speech like metaphor, simile, and metonymy are literally common to every language out there. It is never rocket science.

chatinent:
Christians often point to David as a man after God's own heart and the Bible as a source of objective morality. However, passages like 1 Samuel 18:25-27 feature God's chosen king collecting the severed body parts of 200 dead enemies just to pay a dowry. Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry.

How do you reconcile a holy God favoring a leader who engages in this kind of graphic warfare and humiliation?

Not again. Today is Friday, let's focus on muslim bashing. Leave the Christians alone.

Are you scared of the muslims bro?

jaephoenix:
So how do u know its a figurative metonynm since it wasnt stated there

For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them. ' (Matthew 13:13–15, also Mark 4:12)

You will never understand. Not that its complicated. But that you have deliberately decided not to. Does the literature books you read always indicate what are figures of speech? Most don't but you understand those. But you want the Bible to label figures of speech for you. Then it wasn't meant for you. Don't stress yourself. Those with open minds ask meaningful questions and get to learn.

chatinent:
Christians often point to David as a man after God's own heart and the Bible as a source of objective morality. However, passages like 1 Samuel 18:25-27 feature God's chosen king collecting the severed body parts of 200 dead enemies just to pay a dowry. Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry.

How do you reconcile a holy God favoring a leader who engages in this kind of graphic warfare and humiliation?

Until you finally realise that the God of the Bible is actually the devil himself.

A God who calls himself a loving father, yet told the children of Israel to rip up babies, kill women and children is a muderous blood sucking tyrant.

The gnostics called him the demiurge, a blind arrogant and ignorant God.

Jesus Christ descended from the pleroma, made of pure infinite light, the primordial Trinity which consists of the father, the mother, and the androgynous Son ( twin flame Messiah) Christ and Sophia rose 🌹.

The secret of the Mona Lisa, is that Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene are in fact both One and the same person.

He is the logos, She is Wisdom,She is Sophia.
Seek her as silver, atomic no 47.

47 is the liberation code, it is the rebellion code, it is the fourth of July, it is the 47th problem of Pythagoras, the Masonic triangle, the eye of Providence, the eye of illumination.

Jesus Christ is Thoth, Prince of Atlantis before it fell, alongside Mary Magdalene the dragon queen and priestess of the seven kingdom of Atlantis, the seven mountains where the LovePeddler sitteth.

Cheif of the royal house of Lyra, of sirian- lyran dragon family bloodlines.

Overseer of the galatic fleets, led by the galatic federation of lights, the heavenly watchers.
Before the Annunaki, sons of Anu, led by Enki and Enil put us in a simulation.

Mind unfettered ( YouTube)
Morgue Official (YouTube)
5th kind (YouTube)
Library of Thoth (YouTube)
Annunaki ancient mystery with Lucas M Kern (YouTube)
Emspiracy official (YouTube)
4bidden knowledge podcast (YouTube)
Quantum majesty (YouTube)
Samul blee MD ( YouTube)
The real Ishmael Perez ( YouTube)
Galatic federation of lights (YouTube)
Esoteric Jesus (YouTube)
Hidden codex (YouTube)

Kobojunkie:
The book never in fact states that the God of Israel was an all-loving God. Not one passage or verse in all of the books of the Israelite Scripture claims His love extends to all of mankind. Rather, the idea that he loves all mankind was invented in religious circles.

Another thing is that the YHWH of Israel's definition of love differs entirely from yours or that of many religions out there. Something else to keep in mind. For instance, if you are under the idea that YHWH of Israel's love would treat your dead body in what humans describe as a humane, then you are entirely wrong.

The Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible records God loves all humans and desire that they be saved, especially all who seek him.

I think you are mixing these things up.

Even in the Old Testament where God particularly started special interest in Jacob and his descendants, clearly many non Jewish people were shown love by God and later became part of his people.

Kobojunkie:
1. The first verse is the most famous, which points out that the world(a figurative metonymy) is a reference to the Israelites in the context of John 3 vs 13 - 16.

Again, the notion that the YHWH OF Israel loves mankind is all created from religion.

You are wrong in those 2 points.
Religion didn't introduce God's universal love for humanity. The Bible is clear on that. All who come to God will not be rejected by him. All people everywhere who fear and acknowledge him will be saved by him.

Do you mind sharing how religion introduced God's universal love?

chatinent:
Christians often point to David as a man after God's own heart and the Bible as a source of objective morality. However, passages like 1 Samuel 18:25-27 feature God's chosen king collecting the severed body parts of 200 dead enemies just to pay a dowry. Not just severed parts, David mutilated and took their joysticks to the king as dowry.

How do you reconcile a holy God favoring a leader who engages in this kind of graphic warfare and humiliation?

1. Saul forced David's hand as a king would to his soldier subject. Case is on Saul and not on David. David was obeying the last order as a soldier.

2. David was also desperate to marry the King's daughter who already was in love with him. Who wouldn't want to marry the President's daughter?

3. This was a war time narrative. All the nations then do some of these things during war.

4. That all nations did and still do terrible things during war time doesn't imply God's approval. Humans in their fallen state will always choose to do good and evil sometimes.

5. God loving David isn't hinged to this act. God loved David because of his humility, deep thrust and dependence on God, ability to recognize his mistakes immediately and ask for forgiveness, his love for God etc.

5. David wasn't a saint, had his issues once in a while and was also punished by God for some of his mistakes.

1 Samuel 18:20-23, 25-29 NIV

[20] Now Saul’s daughter Michal was in love with David, and when they told Saul about it, he was pleased.

[21] “I will give her to him,” he thought, “so that she may be a snare to him and so that the hand of the Philistines may be against him.” So Saul said to David, “Now you have a second opportunity to become my son-in-law.”

[22] Then Saul ordered his attendants: “Speak to David privately and say, ‘Look, the king likes you, and his attendants all love you; now become his son-in-law.’ ”

[23] They repeated these words to David. But David said, “Do you think it is a small matter to become the king’s son-in-law? I’m only a poor man and little known.”

[25] Saul replied, “Say to David, ‘The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.’ ”

Saul’s plan was to have David fall by the hands of the Philistines.

[26] When the attendants told David these things, he was pleased to become the king’s son-in-law. So before the allotted time elapsed,

[27] David took his men with him and went out and killed two hundred Philistines and brought back their foreskins. They counted out the full number to the king so that David might become the king’s son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.

[28] When Saul realized that the Lord was with David and that his daughter Michal loved David, [29] Saul became still more afraid of him, and he remained his enemy the rest of his days.

https://bible.com/bible/111/1sa.18.20-29.NIV

amoco:
1. Saul forced David's hand as a king would to his soldier subject. Case is on Saul and not on David. David was obeying the last order as a soldier.

You shouldn't have stressed yourself, he is not a child in primary 5

amoco:
You are wrong in those 2 points.
Religion didn't introduce God's universal love for humanity. The Bible is clear on that. All who come to God will not be rejected by him. All people everywhere who fear and acknowledge him will be saved by him.

Do you mind sharing how religion introduced God's universal love?

You are not fully right for you have not taking in that those who rejected and abused His Love are usually not taking back again eg Esau, Saul, Solomon, Judas Iscariot etc..

People do not see that God first loves us even when they do not know Him