₦airaland Forum

Muslims argue Islam is not a new religion but it's the religion of previous prophets. They argue Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all Muslims. They also claim Muhammed is a prophet in line with previous prophet with the same belief.

What we know from the historical source and epistemology is that all previous prophets worshipped the God whose personal name is YAHWEH- I AM THAT I AM.
Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the previous prophets called upon the name of the God known as YAHWEH, the only exception is Muhammed who insisted God's personal name is Allah. The problem is the etymology of the name Allah is not the same as YAHWEH, they have different meaning.
Muslims cannot claim the name YAHWEH is a corruption because the name of Allah's prophet mentioned in the bible are derived from YAHWEH.
example is Elijah. Elias in arabic and Eliyahu in hebrew. Eliyahu means MY GOD IS YAHWEH .
Another example is Zechariah, written as Zakariyya in both arabic and hebrew. Zakariyya means YAHWEH REMEMBERS.

There is no doubt the previous prophets before Muhammed called upon the name of God as YHWH.


Now my question is can Muslims say with confidence that ALLAH IS THE SAME GOD AS YAHWEH.

If Muhammed actually called upon the same God as Eliyahu and Zakariyya, can Muslims say with confidence that the God they worship called ALLAH is the same God called YAHWEH.
IS ALLAH ALSO YAHWEH?

If Muslims insist Allah is not YHWH, then how come the previous prophets in their own Quran has names that acknowledged YHWH is the God they worship. How can Muhammed and Elijah worship different gods yet Muslims insist they have the same religion.

If Muslims are not sure Allah is YHWH, how can Muslims be sure the same God that spoke to Moses spoke to Muhammed?

Finally, if Muslims acknowledge Allah is also YHWH, then can we call Allah YHWH. Can I decide to call the muslim God YHWH instead of Allah? if the answer is no, why?

Pls note I didn't bring up the bible at all, so dont come up with bible is corrupt narration. Thanks as we brainstorm on this simple straightforward question.

Dfrhhdhb wgrvev dwf f d d

Yahweh get sons but allah don't have while allah get slaves in which Yahweh don't have

According to the prophet (Peace be unto him) Allah is One. Allah is not human being to procreate.

Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:1-4)112:1: "Say, 'He is Allah, [who is] One.'"112:2: "Allah, the Eternal Refuge."112:3: "He neither begets nor is born."112:4: "Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

This sums everything up. I think it is khati'ah to say that Allah has a child.

Fataileke:
According to the prophet (Peace be unto him) Allah is One. Allah is not human being to procreate.

Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:1-4)112:1: "Say, 'He is Allah, [who is] One.'"112:2: "Allah, the Eternal Refuge."112:3: "He neither begets nor is born."112:4: "Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

This sums everything up. I think it is khati'ah to say that Allah has a child.

This thread is not about whether God has a son or child.

This is about the God the old testament prophets worshipped.

They worshipped a God called YHWH. Is YHWH same God as Allah

I recall this point being raised by you in one of your earlier posts from months ago, although I haven't been able to locate the exact post to link here. From the Islamic perspective, YHWH and Allah refer to the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets. The real disagreement isn't who they worshipped, but how later traditions came to understand and describe Him.

honesttalk21:
I recall this point being raised by you in one of your earlier posts from months ago, although I haven't been able to locate the exact post to link here. From the Islamic perspective, YHWH and Allah refer to the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets. The real disagreement isn't who they worshipped, but how later traditions came to understand and describe Him.

So YHWH and Allah is the same God?

Yes. Islam teaches they refer to the same Creator, though Muslims differ from Jews and Christians on His nature and attributes.

Does the Bible use other names or titles for God besides YHWH?

SIRTee15:
So YHWH and Allah is the same God?

honesttalk21:
Yes. Islam teaches they refer to the same Creator, though Muslims differ from Jews and Christians on His nature and attributes.

Does the Bible use other names or titles for God besides YHWH?

Good I'm very happy to hear u guy worship YHWH.
So in Islam, what does YHWH mean?

honesttalk21:
Yes. Islam teaches they refer to the same Creator, though Muslims differ from Jews and Christians on His nature and attributes.

Does the Bible use other names or titles for God besides YHWH?

In this time and age, someone should be making such fallacious claims🥱.

I guess I am the Gabriel being referred to in the bible because obviously I am named Gabriel.

I also guess that Sango and Yahweh are the same, Or, perhaps, Zeus is the same as Yahweh👀. Absolutely, ludicrous.

By the way, the only way Yahweh and Allah can be the same is if God was schizophrenic.🤧

Can you help me understand your objection in light of the exchange with SIRTee15?
I was simply explaining the Islamic position in response to his questions. If you think saying YHWH and Allah refer to the same God is as absurd as equating YHWH with Zeus or Sango, are you saying that's what Islam actually teaches, or are you rejecting Islam's claim that Allah is the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets? I'm asking because your response seems to be arguing against something I wasn't actually claiming.

Gabrielshow26:
In this time and age, someone should be making such fallacious claims🥱.

I guess I am the Gabriel being referred to in the bible because obviously I am named Gabriel.

I also guess that Sango and Yahweh are the same, Or, perhaps, Zeus is the same as Yahweh👀. Absolutely, ludicrous.

By the way, the only way Yahweh and Allah can be the same is if God was schizophrenic.🤧

honesttalk21:
Can you help me understand your objection in light of the exchange with SIRTee15?
I was simply explaining the Islamic position in response to his questions. If you think saying YHWH and Allah refer to the same God is as absurd as equating YHWH with Zeus or Sango, are you saying that's what Islam actually teaches, or are you rejecting Islam's claim that Allah is the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets? I'm asking because your response seems to be arguing against something I wasn't actually claiming.

Will it be appropriate for a Muslim to say Yahwehu Akbar in the salat? If not, why not

Fataileke:
According to the prophet (Peace be unto him) Allah is One. Allah is not human being to procreate.

Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:1-4)112:1: "Say, 'He is Allah, [who is] One.'"112:2: "Allah, the Eternal Refuge."112:3: "He neither begets nor is born."112:4: "Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

This sums everything up. I think it is khati'ah to say that Allah has a child.

The question is :
Is Allah the same Identity or Person as YHWH?

You didn't answer that: all you said is that Allah is one.

Is Iblis not also one? So, what is special in Allah being one. I am one too: does that make me an Allah the same?

Allah is not even actually one: Allah is AHAD meaning One of several! Mohammed copied the Jewish Shema without comprehension. Ahad doesn't mean ONE, it means "On of"

On the qualities of Allah, these are mere CLAIMS except if you can show a single instance apart from these claims that Allah is without equivalent as I just showed you that the ONENESS of Iblis and the Oneness of Allah is exactly the same.


YHWH is a Spirit.
YHWH is ONE Being
YHWH is THREE Persons
YHWH is Fully Omnipresent
YHWH is Fully Omniscient
YHWH is Fully Omnipotent

Is Allah any of these?



Over to you!

Step ONE: Basic Questions

honesttalk21:
Can you help me understand your objection in light of the exchange with SIRTee15?
I was simply explaining the Islamic position in response to his questions. If you think saying YHWH and Allah refer to the same God is as absurd as equating YHWH with Zeus or Sango, are you saying that's what Islam actually teaches, or are you rejecting Islam's claim that Allah is the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets? I'm asking because your response seems to be arguing against something I wasn't actually claiming.

honesttalk21:
I recall this point being raised by you in one of your earlier posts from months ago, although I haven't been able to locate the exact post to link here. From the Islamic perspective, YHWH and Allah refer to the same Creator worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and the other prophets. The real disagreement isn't who they worshipped, but how later traditions came to understand and describe Him.

Here are questions to unveils the fundamental beliefs of Muslims with respect to their God Allah. Can you please respond clearly with respect to your Qur'an (knowing that sects like Muʿtazila, Jahmiyya, Karramiyya , Ismaili Shiʿism, Alawites (Nusayris) and Shia Muslims exist).




Can you also kindly respond to these short answer questions for us to be on the same page?
1. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the name of his God is NOT Allah, is such a person a Muslim?

2. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the attributes of his God is different from the Attributes of Allah, is such a person a Muslim?

3. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the character of his God is different from the Character of Allah, is such person a Muslim?

4. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the Nature of his God is different from the Nature of Allah, is such a person a Muslim

5. If someone claims to worship the same God as the God of Moses but rejects the way that God identified Himself and revealed His nature to Moses, how can we establish that they are referring to the same God?

6. Historical identity: If someone claims to worship the God of Abraham but rejects the historical revelations, covenants and promises through which that God identified Himself to Abraham and his descendants, what establishes that they worship the same God?

7. Consistency of identity: Can two beings with fundamentally contradictory identities, characteristics and relationships with humanity be considered the same God simply because both are described as the Creator?





cc:
Antichristian
Gaskiyamagana
CreativeOrbit
drlateef
Lukuluku69
mhmsadyq
Empiree
Rash4ductluv
AbuTwins
motayoayinde

The short answer is No! Absolutely not.

In term of reference, that is, referring to the God of all creation, the uncreated, unchanging eternal and immutable, you may be able to claim a match. But so would anyone, and any religion, who referred to a Supreme Being. Which includes pretty much all the local dieties to be found in Nigeria.

However, in terms of description, revelation and relation, the God of The Bible and the deity of Islam are mutually exclusive beings. Thematically they could not be more different.

I will touch briefly on elements of the "relationship" aspect here. I may touch on others as the discussion unfolds if warranted.

Starting with the names. The revealed YWHW (The I AM THAT I AM ) of the Bible, engages mankind relationally and shares a personal name. In stark contrast to the generic and recycled (allah) of the koran. Names matter.

All the Prophets had names that testified too, and of YWHW and HIs unfolding plan. In islam, they become meaningless. Devoid of all meaning and descriptive ties. Names matter!

The God of the Bible imprints mankind with "Imago Dei" - The Likeness of God. Given rise to the higher consciousness of human beings. Notions of conscience, our being able to reason, to understand order, structure and pursue rational inquiry. The seedbed of scientific discovery and technological advancement.

We are propelled towards higher pursuits and can begin to grasp if not attain true righteousness and holiness - "Because He is Holy".

Perhaps more socially importantly, it affords the human dignity and the inalienable freedoms & rights given by our creator to all men. No slavery, no customary discrimination, no unwarranted prejudice.

The deity of islam is apparently beyond comprehension, and like nothing in his creation. Humans are just another expression of his creative powers. No more worthy than any other created thing, and nothing more than slaves. Slaves who have to work for an uncertain salvation - The God of The Bible is a sure Gaurantor.

There are no true notions of morality, let alone righteousness or holiness. The conscience is effectively voided. What islam terms "complete" is actually absolutist control - fatwas for garlic, for which foot to lead when going to the loo. Girls burnt to death in a school fire for modesty rulings, men slumping in prayer being ignored.

There are no inventions or advances that are unique to islam. Nor could there be, it can not only not innovate, it is wholly regressive. Your choice? Seventh century Arabia or 21st century Afghanistan - with options for northern Nigeria and Somalia. No scientific discoveries, no technological advancements.

The God of The Bible is love. For God so loved the world. Love in His affection, love in His outreach. Love shed abroad in the hearts of believers. A love which cannot do, and does no harm. A sacrificial love...revealed in His Only Begotten. Grace writ large.

Contrast the hate, violence and bloodshed of allah. Hate for unbelievers, even your family. Hate of Jews Christians, and of course, polytheists. Hate of plurality, difference or dissent. Hate of anything not islamic,

With death as the go-to solution. Death for not joining, death for leaving, death for insulting. The joy of rajm , the love of beheading. The delight in terror - by sword, by bullet, by car, by plane.

No. They are not and can never be the same. Ban me!


Come to Christ, who loved us and gave Himself for us. Shed yourselves of your weighty burdens and false piety. Unshackle yourselves of fear, violence, bloodshed and uncertainty. He is Light!


TV

TenQ:
Step ONE: Basic Questions



Here are questions to unveils the fundamental beliefs of Muslims with respect to their God Allah. Can you please respond clearly with respect to your Qur'an (knowing that sects like Muʿtazila, Jahmiyya, Karramiyya , Ismaili Shiʿism, Alawites (Nusayris) and Shia Muslims exist).




Can you also kindly respond to these short answer questions for us to be on the same page?
1. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the name of his God is NOT Allah, is such a person a Muslim?

2. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the attributes of his God is different from the Attributes of Allah, is such a person a Muslim?

3. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the character of his God is different from the Character of Allah, is such person a Muslim?

4. If someone claims that he worships ONE God as the Creator but the Nature of his God is different from the Nature of Allah, is such a person a Muslim

5. If someone claims to worship the same God as the God of Moses but rejects the way that God identified Himself and revealed His nature to Moses, how can we establish that they are referring to the same God?

6. Historical identity: If someone claims to worship the God of Abraham but rejects the historical revelations, covenants and promises through which that God identified Himself to Abraham and his descendants, what establishes that they worship the same God?

7. Consistency of identity: Can two beings with fundamentally contradictory identities, characteristics and relationships with humanity be considered the same God simply because both are described as the Creator?





cc:
Antichristian
Gaskiyamagana
CreativeOrbit
drlateef
Lukuluku69
mhmsadyq
Empiree
Rash4ductluv
AbuTwins
motayoayinde

Interesting. I'll get to your seven questions but a few things in your last post don't hold up. You said ahad means "one of several" and Muhammad pbuh lifted the Shema without understanding it. Check the Shema. Deut 6:4 says YHWH echad. Echad and ahad are cousins, same root idea. So if ahad is "one of," then echad is "one of," and your own God in Deuteronomy is one of several. You can't swing that at Allah and expect it to miss YHWH. Pick a lane not a defense of trinity as the Jews don't have it.
Iblis next. Nobody reads Surah 112 as "Allah is one, full stop." It says no equal, no father, no son, everything depends on Him. Iblis is a creature and made nothing. I'm one person too, as you said, so by that logic everybody is Allah? Come on.
Your list at the end (three Persons and so on) just assumes the Christian answer. Moses never taught that. The Jews who read Exodus 3 for centuries never taught it either. If being three Persons is the test for who YHWH is, Jews fail it, and I'm guessing you don't want to say they worship someone else.
Now the questions.
1 to 4: No. If you reject the shahada and what Islam says about God's name, attributes, character and nature, you're not a Muslim in the Islamic sense. I won't dodge that. But "is he a Muslim" and "is he talking about the same God" are two separate questions. Arab Christians say Allah every Sunday and nobody calls them Muslim.
5: Fair point that if you reject how God revealed Himself to Moses, your claim to follow Moses' God gets weaker. We say Allah spoke to Moses (Quran 20:11-14, 4:164) and sent the Torah (5:44). Where our account and yours differ, we're arguing about what was said. We're still talking about the same speaker.
6: Same Quran 3:67 says Abraham submitted to the one God. You say Muslims reject the covenants, we say they were misdescribed. Again the fight is over content.
7: Two descriptions that truly contradict can't both be right, agreed. That still doesn't make two Gods. Jews and Christians contradict each other all day about YHWH and you still say they mean the same One. Paul told the Athenians about the God they already worshipped without knowing Him (Acts 17:23), and in Romans 10:2 he says people can have zeal for God and still lack knowledge. Same target, wrong picture. Paul's own words.
29:46 says "our God and your God is one", and that was said knowing full well the Trinity was in dispute.
So what's your argument that Muslims mean a different Creator, and not the same Creator described differently?