₦airaland Forum

77% of Nigerians want subsidy - Arise Poll

Amongst other things. Complete rehaul of basic infrastructure, low exchange rates and accountability will be a welcome addition.

I only do not want subsidy because it will kill dangote's refinery business and all the tens of thousands that work there...

bigpicture001:
I only do not want subsidy because it will kill dangote's refinery business and all the tens of thousands that work there...

That's a flawed arguement. Who says FG cannot be buying petrol from Dangote at a subsidized rate?

GigzHQ:
Amongst other things. Complete rehaul of basic infrastructure, low exchange rates and accountability will be a welcome addition.

All those things would be impossible if subsidy is reintroduced because we would be redirecting the resources needed to do infrastructure to maintain a subsidy that is not working.

The problem with subsidy is no government can raise enough revenue that would accurately cover the regular fluctuations in fuel price due to rise and fall in crude oil prices, especially since we are dependent on the sale of the same crude for the revenue we would use to pay for the coverage. It always would end in debt. No two ways about it.

And the debt would worsen the already bad debt we have, and would also make the naira weaker.

clarocuzioo:
That's a flawed arguement. Who says FG cannot be buying petrol from Dangote at a subsidized rate?

The problem is, the cost of producing that petrol is not constant, because it can rise when say crude oil prices rise. So, if government budgets x amount of money on the basis that its subsidy to dangote would be N600 per liter, and in the course of the year, crude prices rise pushes up that subsidy cost to N1000 per liter, how would government pay for the increase, since it has already passed and approved the budget for the thing to be N600 per liter.? The answer is that government would borrow and continue to borrow.

Eventually they can no longer borrow. That means that since government is not paying what dangote is owed, dangote cannot maintain production at the level he was doing so, and the refinery collapses eventually...not in one day, but eventually.

And to add on to the problem, consumption from smuggling, overuseage, and lying would compound the matter.pushing up the daily consumption figures to levels that even a N500 per liter subsidy won't be able to cover. And before you ask why Nigeria has not solved the corruption problem, no country with the kind of subsidy we have done has solved those problems even. Libya under Ghaddafi had a massive smuggling of petrol problem. The man even used air force to bomb them. E no work at all at all. Venezela loses billions of dollars to smuggling. SO does Iran and even Saudi Arabia, and even Angola.

And we are back to importing all our fuel needs at high prices, and paying subsidy at even higher prices to keep the price low.

Don;t even mention selling crude at lower prices to our refineries. That has the effect of cutting down the revenue government gets from crude. And it also means that the same issue you have with dangote as I outlined above, would now be the same issue you have with crude producers. Don't forget that oil communities get a cut of any revenue made from crude being drilled in their land. (it's in the law, and it is different from deriviation ).

Finally, the PIA , the petroleum industry act forbids the government from setting prices of petrol, so doing so would violate the law. That is why tinubu removed subsidy , because the PIA was in effect around the time he took over. IN addition to there being no money.

The problem is, no government can set prices for any business without debt resutltante.

FuglyGurl:
77% of Nigerians want subsidy - Arise Poll

The remaining 23% are Tinubu sleves that want to die for nothing. They don't have a mind of their own

nairalanda1:
The problem is, the cost of producing that petrol is not constant, because it can rise when say crude oil prices rise. So, if government budgets x amount of money on the basis that its subsidy to dangote would be N600 per liter, and in the course of the year, crude prices rise pushes up that subsidy cost to N1000 per liter, how would government pay for the increase, since it has already passed and approved the budget for the thing to be N600 per liter.? The answer is that government would borrow and continue to borrow.

Eventually they can no longer borrow. That means that since government is not paying what dangote is owed, dangote cannot maintain production at the level he was doing so, and the refinery collapses eventually...not in one day, but eventually.

And we are back to importing all our fuel needs at high prices, and paying subsidy at even higher prices to keep the price low.

Don;t even mention selling crude at lower prices to our refineries. That has the effect of cutting down the revenue government gets from crude. And it also means that the same issue you have with dangote as I outlined above, would now be the same issue you have with crude producers. Don't forget that oil communities get a cut of any revenue made from crude being drilled in their land. (it's in the law, and it is different from deriviation ).

Finally, the PIA , the petroleum industry act forbids the government from setting prices of petrol, so doing so would violate the law. That is why tinubu removed subsidy , because the PIA was in effect around the time he took over. IN addition to there being no money.

The problem is, no government can set prices for any business without debt resutltante.

All our oil they are stealing , if government is serious and stop the oil bunkering, channel those crude to Dangote at a subsidized naira rate and have an understanding with Dangote to sell to the masses at a highly subsidized rate, trust me the economy will bounce back.

clarocuzioo:
All our oil they are stealing , if government is serious and stop the oil bunkering, channel those crude to Dangote at a subsidized naira rate and have an understanding with Dangote to sell to the masses at a highly subsidized rate, trust me the economy will bounce back.

LOL...and how would you stop bunkering? It's not an easy thing to do, otherwise, it would have been ended long time ago.

And even then, stolen oil cannot be sold at a discount or dashed free to dangote. It's like me stealing a car from a car seller...and then the police catch and jail me, and give the car for free to the intended buyer. That's not how it works. The car is returned to where it was stolen from so that the seller can sell it and make his money.

You got to realize that crude cannot be given off for free like that.


AND even then, the PIA stops government from setting fuel prices , so that is moot. No more subsidy.


N.B

Dangote refinery needs crude at 60000 bpd, and crude stolen by bunkering is 100000 bpd. It won;t even meet half of dangote refinery need.

bigpicture001:
I only do not want subsidy because it will kill dangote's refinery business and all the tens of thousands that work there...

Say something else. Dangote produces more fuel in a single day than Nigeria needs in a week. He is a net exporter of refined fuel and will be just fine even if Nigeria does not buy his fuel.

nairalanda1:
LOL...and how would you stop bunkering? It's not an easy thing to do, otherwise, it would have been ended long time ago.

And even then, stolen oil cannot be sold at a discount or dashed free to dangote. It's like me stealing a car from a car seller...and then the police catch and jail me, and give the car for free to the intended buyer. That's not how it works. The car is returned to where it was stolen from so that the seller can sell it and make his money.

You got to realize that crude cannot be given off for free like that.


AND even then, the PIA stops government from setting fuel prices , so that is moot. No more subsidy.


N.B

Dangote refinery needs crude at 60000 bpd, and crude stolen by bunkering is 100000 bpd. It won;t even meet half of dangote refinery need.

So they told U only 10000bpd is stolen and U believe them? Kwantinue.
Since the government can't stop stolen crude, it has no business stopping subsidy.

clarocuzioo:
So they told U only 10000bpd is stolen and U believe them? Kwantinue.
Since the government can't stop stolen crude, it has no business stopping subsidy.

That's the best available accurate figure online. Believe you me, I checked.

Also, it is better to stop subsidy, because the monies lost would be larger than any lost from bunkering

Also, I'm ending it here, since this discussion has degenerated into you accusing me of lying without you bringing proof of how I am lying.

FuglyGurl:
77% of Nigerians want subsidy - Arise Poll

helinus mr big nose

2000 Nigerians are not 77% of Nigerians. We will meet at the polls. Elections are not won on social media.

Add this to the number of Christians who are expected to reject the hideous Mus/mus ticket and you can be rest assured we are kicking the hideous man out of aso rock ..he has no part to legitimate victory

WhizdomXX:
2000 Nigerians are not 77% of Nigerians. We will meet at the polls. Elections are not won on social media.

There is no pathway for the faaake certttifficcate hollldderr to another round of snatching and grabbing in 2027

bigpicture001:
I only do not want subsidy because it will kill dangote's refinery business and all the tens of thousands that work there...

Okay. Let's assume it is possible: so millions of lives should be sacrificed (wallowing in hardship) in exchange for Dangote's refinery to keep functioning, and those working there to keep their jobs?

Even Dangote doesn't care about you (the common citizens) that much.
He cares more about the money/profits he's making.

Now, do a poll on how many Nigerians are generally ignorant. You sure will see a correlation.

DatNiggaDaz:


There is no pathway for the faaake certttifficcate hollldderr to another round of snatching and grabbing in 2027

Of course. Hope you have your voters card and you're campaigning in the villages as well?

Sound! It’s a great indicator of Nigerian prosperity.

Majority wants it back.

A lion took biscuit from a child and shared with tigers and other wild animals and asked the child to ask the tiger and the wild animals for his biscuit (this is the Nigerian situation).

Lol..

What a poll..

Even person wey get 5 Twitter accounts go use all the 5 votes. Make una dey deceive unaself..

What valid poll has Arise conducted before? If left to Arise, Olumide Àpáta will be Edo gov, PO will be president Funk Akindele and grv, will be leading Lagos.
Yeye

TokoEkambi:
Now, do a poll on how many Nigerians are generally ignorant. You sure will see a correlation.

Because of that, their opinions don't count, right?
They don't deserve to be heard.

GravityDefier:
Majority wants it back.

A lion took biscuit from a child and shared with tigers and other wild animals and asked the child to ask the tiger and the wild animals for his biscuit (this is the Nigerian situation).

The better analogy would be that a poor parent took the savings that he is keeping for tomorrow's rainy day to give his child the kind of life the rich children in his child's school has, and when the money runs out, the parent then borrows to maintain the facade.

The child is happy, everyone thinks he is doing the child well, but the debt is rising., and would soon affect the whole family

WhizdomXX:
Of course. Hope you have your voters card and you're campaigning in the villages as well?

Worry about yours, but know that there is no pathway to snatching andTell your faaake certificate hollldderr to organise a free fair election.

Mariangeles:
Okay. Let's assume it is possible: so millions of lives should be sacrificed (wallowing in hardship) in exchange for Dangote's refinery to keep functioning, and those working there to keep their jobs?

Even Dangote doesn't care about you (the common citizens) that much.
He cares more about the money/profits he's making.

Except u want to deceive yourself..Nigerian and their business have all adjusted..

Minimum wage raised..other wages raised. Transporters adjusted.food sellers adjusted..

Tell me aside the slave ppl POS people who else hasn't adjusted prices to match the new cost push inflation

Mariangeles:
Okay. Let's assume it is possible: so millions of lives should be sacrificed (wallowing in hardship) in exchange for Dangote's refinery to keep functioning, and those working there to keep their jobs?

Even Dangote doesn't care about you (the common citizens) that much.
He cares more about the money/profits he's making.

Well, the problem with subsidy for fuel is that production costs for fuel fluctuate. To the point that it would cost far too much money to pay a subsidy that covers for these fluctuations and keeps the refineries profitable enough to run well.

Also, the suffering you are crying about, NIgerians cried suffering when subsides on essenco like sugar was removed. BY then subsidies had damaged out domestic sugar industry to the point that we were importing sugar by the ton and subsidsing it. The subsidy went, we suffered, but eventually domestic sugar manufacturing recovered to the point that it produces a lot of sugar today, and generates a lot of jobs.

Nigerians cried suffering and oppression when GSM companies were allowed to oppress us, yet the investment that floowed in as a result of that oppression is why we have poor people in the villages making phone calls...something that was impossible 40 years ago. And it was all done without government money, or government spending, and it has generated jobs for millions.

Not everyhting is suffering. Forcing dangote to sell at a loss because you want cheap fuel risks jeopardizing the jobs and livelihood of millions of nigerians. No, there is nothing like subsidy that won't make dangote lose money, that one is not possible. If dangote canot make a profit, his refinery would collapse and become house of corruption and inefficency like the NNPC refineries. Refineroes are expensive to run and need to make a profit to pay for everything.

So, drop the suffering rhetroic. Decades of subsdy payment drove up our debt, which is what forced it's removal and ironically the borrowing we are doing now for our budget. Are we not suffering now as a result?

I am not campaigning for tinubu, let tinubu go, but let the government that takes over not reintroduce subsidy. It would damage a good thing here. Just when we are becoming an exporter of refined products again...and more refineries are in the pipeline.

Hmm...

Balance is key...

A return of fuel subsidy without certain commensurate actions would not be good for the economy.

Scammers

Mariangeles:
Because of that, their opinions don't count, right?
They don't deserve to be heard.

Hell