₦airaland Forum

AntiChristian:
-The Bible passages cited (Genesis 18 and Psalm 110) do not support the Christian doctrine of the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus as understood in Christianity.
-Islamic theology emphasizes the absolute oneness and uniqueness of Allah, rejecting any division or physical form.
-The Quranic descriptions of Allah's attributes are understood metaphorically or in a manner befitting His majesty, not as literal physical forms.
-The spirit mentioned in the Quran is a created entity, not part of God's essence.
-The Quran is regarded as a unique and final revelation, not a plagiarized text.

So how did the Lord visit Abraham as 3 persons?
Explain the first Lord and the second Lord in Psalm 110 then from an Islamic perspective since it is the Zabur and your religion accepts it as divine text

Again, show me where the Qur'an says the physical description of Allah are to be taken metaphorically. Stop adding to the Qur'an what's not there!!

So where is the spirit of Allah now and what is its status? Is it jinn or human? Can you explain the difference between the spirit of Allah and the spirit of say a jinn after all they are also created by Allah?

The Quran might be regarded by AI as a revelation but scientific inquest establishes forms of plagiarism in it. Plagiarism is an intellectual theft issue and you can't wish it away just because the Quran is a religious text which you feel must not be questioned

Kukutente23:
So how did the Lord visit Abraham as 3 persons?

Are you saying Abraham saw God the father, son and Holy Spirit as three men?

Explain the first Lord and the second Lord in Psalm 110 then from an Islamic perspective since it is the Zabur and your religion accepts it as divine text

The LORD said to my Lord... the first one is LORD (Yahweh) while the second is a lesser "Lord" which can be a Prophet or messenger of God!

Again, show me where the Qur'an says the physical description of Allah are to be taken metaphorically. Stop adding to the Qur'an what's not there!!

You don't want the truth but specious argument. The Qur'an came with an interpretation, there's no Holy Spirit do turn one to three here! You are the one in need of evidence to your claims not me!

So where is the spirit of Allah now and what is its status? Is it jinn or human? Can you explain the difference between the spirit of Allah and the spirit of say a jinn after all they are also created by Allah?

The Spirit Allah created for you is in you! The one He created for everyone is in everybody as well as Jesus! Jinn and humans are creations of Allah. Allah is neither of them! Don't be confused!

In Islam, soul and spirit can be used to mean the same thing! So a human has only body and Soul (spirit)! Not body, Soul and Spirit as in Christianity! A spirit is defined as anything unseen in Christianity. In Islam, Ruh = Divine spirit or breathe of life created by Allah to animate humans and connect them to Him.

The Quran might be regarded by AI as a revelation but scientific inquest establishes forms of plagiarism in it. Plagiarism is an intellectual theft issue and you can't wish it away just because the Quran is a religious text which you feel must not be questioned

That's your own deduction. You can also call the new testament the same too as many verses are said to be from the old testament and even the apocrypha!

MaxInDHouse:
The books named in the Bible like Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Daniel each were written in scrolls back then it's decades after Jesus that his disciples started penning down the life and ministry of Jesus both in their presence and what other disciples told them when they are not there to witness it personally.

So in essence, no one carried the Bible to preach as is done today! Not even the disciples!

AntiChristian:
So in essence, no one carried the Bible to preach as is done today! Not even the disciples!

Back then the Bible was in PARTS! 1Corinthans 13:8-12

Just as Muhammad didn't wait until all the surah was fully revealed before he started preaching!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Back then the Bible was in PARTS! 1Corinthans 13:8-12

Just as Muhammad didn't wait until all the surah was fully revealed before he started preaching!🙂

Are the disciples of Jesus aware of Paul's letters as scriptures?

Every companions of Muhammad knew the Qur'an was scripture from Allah before Muhammad died!

AntiChristian:
Are the disciples of Jesus aware of Paul's letters as scriptures?

They lived for decades after Jesus' death so when Paul wrote letters to the congregations all of them were aware:

Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him. 2Peter 3:15

Peter who walked with Jesus wrote the above about the WISDOM found in Paul's letters.

AntiChristian:
Every companions of Muhammad knew the Qur'an was scripture from Allah before Muhammad died!

The question is did all came before Muhammad started using it to teach or it was revealed progressively while he used it to teach as received?

MaxInDHouse:
They lived for decades after Jesus' death so when Paul wrote letters to the congregations all of them were aware:

Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him. 2Peter 3:15

Peter who walked with Jesus wrote the above about the WISDOM found in Paul's letters.

You said "All" and then brought a verse from Peter only? Where are the others? Note that the disciples were 12 including Mathias!

The question is did all came before Muhammad started using it to teach or it was revealed progressively while he used it to teach as received?

The revelation span 23 years so he was teaching as it was revealed. There was no revelation as regards the Bible. It is a mixture of biographies, God's words, men's words/narrations, etc.

AntiChristian:
You said "All" and then brought a verse from Peter only? Where are the others? Note that the disciples were 12 including Mathias!

Whatever Peter wrote is in behalf of all the Apostles because he is the apostle's spokesman! Act 2:14; 3:12; 4:7
So as the spokesman of the group what he said applies to all the apostles.

AntiChristian:
The revelation span 23 years so he was teaching as it was revealed. There was no revelation as regards the Bible. It is a mixture of biographies, God's words, men's words/narrations, etc.

The comparison will lead to arguments what i'm saying is that Muhammad did not wait until all the surahs were given him before he started using it to teach the same applies to what the Christians in the first century did it's a gradual process until the Bible was completed

So it's what they received that they used as they are getting it!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever Peter wrote is in behalf of all the Apostles because he is the apostle's spokesman! Act 2:14; 3:12; 4:7
So as the spokesman of the group what he said applies to all the apostles.

None of the disciples ever claimed writing on behalf of others. And Luke who wrote the Acts you quoted wasn't a disciple but was a companion of Paul.

Also note that Peter was writting to some people: Peter 1:1- To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia...

The comparison will lead to arguments what i'm saying is that Muhammad did not wait until all the surahs were given him before he started using it to teach the same applies to what the Christians in the first century did it's a gradual process until the Bible was completed

So it's what they received that they used as they are getting it!🙂

The Qur'an as it is today existed fully in the hearts of Muslim while Muhammad was alive. This can't be said of any Christian while Jesus was alive. Or do you think the Bible with you existed in the heart of any Christian while Jesus was alive?

Even 300 years after Jesus the Bible as it is today wasn't in existence! That's the difference!

AntiChristian:
None of the disciples ever claimed writing on behalf of others. And Luke who wrote the Acts you quoted wasn't a disciple but was a companion of Paul.

Also note that Peter was writting to some people: Peter 1:1- To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia...

The message is for Christians in general that is how majority of Christians were referred to back then only few are not part of the chosen (elect) and it's what the chosen believes that all must accept.
Luke was a companion Christian nah it means they are working together.

AntiChristian:
The Qur'an as it is today existed fully in the hearts of Muslim while Muhammad was alive. This can't be said of any Christian while Jesus was alive. Or do you think the Bible with you existed in the heart of any Christian while Jesus was alive?

Even 300 years after Jesus the Bible as it is today wasn't in existence! That's the difference!

The system of writing is nothing compared to the fruit of a religion and whatever you claim now is what you were told not what you witnessed yourself but when talking about reality it's the result that matters!

AntiChristian:
Are you saying Abraham saw God the father, son and Holy Spirit as three men?

Abraham saw an expression of the triune God in the 3 men who visited him. If God is in a single dimension as you erroneously claim, how will the appearance of 3 men as God be explained and understood by Abraham. It is a manifestation of the Rhema of God to Abraham that resulted in the 3 men visiting him under the banner of the Lord. That Muhammad failed to gasp this significant occurrence is why your religion struggled by claiming that God created his own spirit called spirit of Allah while none of you can explain the significance of the spirit or its function except just saying it's a spirit! Meanwhile it's same spirit that's referred to as Jibreel who is an angel and then same spirit is the breathe of Allah and then same spirit that's Jibreel and breath of Allah is in man and then same spirit was used to produce Isa... You see the confusion in your quran about spirit of Allah so?

The LORD said to my Lord... the first one is LORD (Yahweh) while the second is a lesser "Lord" which can be a Prophet or messenger of God!

Simply say you don't know! What is "can"? Does your Allah deal in ambiguity now? Perhaps it is Jibreel then. It could even be shaitan after all he is also a Prince. Imagine saying David a prophet was referring to another prophet or messenger as Lord. I thought the Qur'an teaches you that you can't share the attributes and personality of God with no other. Are you saying now that it will be correct to say "Allah gave my Allah the revelation of the Qur'an" when referring to Muhammad?

You don't want the truth but specious argument. The Qur'an came with an interpretation, there's no Holy Spirit do turn one to three here! You are the one in need of evidence to your claims not me!

Was the interpretation also a revelation from Allah or the works of men. Since you don't have holy spirit to help you interpret why should any interpretation from any of you be taken seriously above and beyond the text given by Allah? If you can't provide quotes from the complete and perfect Qur'an to help us understand it and you don't have the holy spirit neither is any prophet expected to come again after Muhammad you then can't simply conjure up some silly interpretation and expect it to be taken as uncontestable

The Spirit Allah created for you is in you! The one He created for everyone is in everybody as well as Jesus! Jinn and humans are creations of Allah. Allah is neither of them! Don't be confused!

Where is this in the Qur'an?. Can you substantiate it and do you mean Allah creates a spirit for everyone who is born? When does the spirit enter them? Is it at birth, during pregnancy or a particular age? Give us details of the process by which Allah gives each human a spirit according to the Qur'an!! Stop being a liar

In Islam, soul and spirit can be used to mean the same thing! So a human has only body and Soul (spirit)! Not body, Soul and Spirit as in Christianity! A spirit is defined as anything unseen in Christianity. In Islam, Ruh = Divine spirit or breathe of life created by Allah to animate humans and connect them to Him.

If it is so why is the spirit of Allah in Isa and Adam specifically mentioned? What about the spirit in Muhammad? Why is it not mentioned in the Quran? What is the significance of the spirit given to Adam and Isa but not that of Muhammad? It's established that Allah breathed his spirit into clay to form Adam and then into Maryam to form Isa. How did Allah form Muhammad by his spirit and why is that particular event of the creation of the most consequential and final prophet of Islam not recorded? Is his spirit inferior to that of Adam and Isa that were recorded?

That's your own deduction. You can also call the new testament the same too as many verses are said to be from the old testament and even the apocrypha!

The new Testament does not claim originality of those verses from the old testament. Where verses are borrowed from the old testament, they are clearly referenced unlike the Qur'an that claims originality whereas it is filled with copious parts of older texts which it refused to acknowledge. That's the classical definition of plagiarism and it fits the Qur'an perfectly