damilarelr:

You are right bro, the blood of Jesus Christ was shed for your sake, He took the punishments, the beatings for you and I. It wouldn't make any sense for you to now shed your blood because you want to please God. You don't want to make Jesus' finished works void over your life, would you?

malvisguy212: when you pursue a sheep and he reach to the extent that the sheep has no where to run to, if the sheep is brave HE WILL TAKE THE VIOLENCE BY FORCE,he will take the challenge ,that what the verse mean.is like satan taking advantage of the law to make man fall,the weak ones will fall BUT THE BRAVE ONES WILL TAKE THE VIOLENCE BACK TO SATAN THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.the children of God are the kingdom of heaven.

drstan: please tell them my brother, is because of this grace thing many christian are suffering, they just cant pray their way out violently from situation they find themselves.

malvisguy212: thank you Bros,this thing saddle me.

drstan: that is why our new generational pastors are just motivational speaker, the present church is lacking those that will preach the real word of God, that is why most christian are relaxed, nothing to drive them to know God the more, no burning desire for God,

malvisguy212: see brother, am very very happy for this your coment,most christian don't understand salvation,if you go to some churches after the message the pastor will ask who want to give his life to christ?all most half of the congregation will come out,this happen every sunday and each sunday many people come out for repentance, I will ask my self, "wherever they repent , is like they go back to sin "they just like to be seen by men,there heart is far away.I just thank God for the parents I have, they both gives there life to christ 1994, uptill today there faith in christ is as solid as the rock.
Thank you my brother, you are bless.

malvisguy212: when you pursue a sheep and he reach to the extent that the sheep has no where to run to, if the sheep is brave HE WILL TAKE THE VIOLENCE BY FORCE,he will take the challenge ,that what the verse mean.is like satan taking advantage of the law to make man fall,the weak ones will fall BUT THE BRAVE ONES WILL TAKE THE VIOLENCE BACK TO SATAN THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.the children of God are the kingdom of heaven.

drstan: please tell them my brother, is because of this grace thing many christian are suffering, they just cant pray their way out violently from situation they find themselves.

damilarelr:

Scriptural references please, especially the one that validates children of God being the kingdom of heaven. Meanwhile, you cannot redo what Jesus has done, even if while praying your sweat became like God, it won't move God neither will it move the devil one bit!

damilarelr:

But Jesus was not even referring to prayer when He spoke those words...it is the African hardship, the rigour of growing up and how we have been taught in our various churches that has made us to believe until we pray violently, shake head like handfan, pray loudly and disturb our neighbours, that is only when we can pray violently and God will answer.

Bros, there are some wrong doctrines we need to seriously "unbelieve" so we can believe the truth which the Gospel of Jesus is all about. God is not out there to punish any sinner, neither is He awaiting Christians to falter so He can deal with them, scarcely will anyone want to die for a good man, but Christ died for us while we were not yet born (even though we will be born sinners)..what manner of love is that? My point is that law came thru Moses, but Grace and truth came thru Jesus Christ, beit under or under grace and truth, the choice is ours to make, but don't be unwise by mixing the two!

malvisguy212: Romans 7:7King James Bible. What shall we say then? Is the law sin?
God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but
by the law: for I had not known lust,
except the law had said, Thou shalt not
covet.

Satan takin advantage through the law.

Are you sayin prayer dosent count? How do we communicate with God?is it not by prayer?wither you raise your voice or not, it what comes out from your hearth that matters the most.

drstan: hello! hope you know what transpired before jesus said that, in verse 7 to 9, that is the characteristic a christian has to exhibit, those that will be aggressive in exploiting this world for the advancement of the kingdom, violently without the fear of any one just as john the baptists did , violent in all ramification, james 5 .16 , the effectual and fervent prayer of the righteous availed much,

damilarelr:

Brother, Jesus didn't speak about prayer in any of the verses nao. He was relating what happened under law, with the transition into the Grace dispensation in which we are today. Don't mix it up. James 5:16 could refer to a kind of prayer that avails much but this has nothing to do with how the violent were taking their right from the kingdom of heaven by force (people taking up their possessions from the kingdom of heaven as while they were law as if they are under Grace).

drstan: neither was He talking about grace there, bro,

damilarelr:

Of course He was talking about the Grace dispensation. Okay, you will agree with me that after the law and the prophets, it was followed by the grace dispensation. Now, read up Luke's record of what Jesus was saying in Luke 16:16 for a clearer understanding.

damilarelr: @Goshen360
@Christembassy
@Drummaboy
sorry I mentioned you, but you are going to love this topic.

damilarelr:

My brother, the verse you just quoted was about how the law enslaves by creating sin-consciousness in the life of a believer because without the law, sin is dead (1Cor.15:56), iRomans 7:7 has nothing to do with children of God being the kingdom of God as you wrote up there!

However, we pray to God in order to maintain line of communication with Him, but a Christian should strive to turn his christianity into a relationship whereby you approach Jesus like you approach earthly partner. Grace be multiplied to you in Jesus' name (Amen).

Dux01: even Jesus The SON OF GOD was violent In prayer or else how do you think that he prayed and his sweat was like great drops of blood falling to the ground .

Sparklesebony:

@Dux 01:Pls ask yourself:If Jesus really loved shouting prayers @ home & churches, why would he ask us to go to our inner rooms to pray to a God who hears & sees d hear of every man? Even in silence!

Since d violent were taking d kindom by force before & in his time, pls, tell me, why did bro Jesse (Jesus o), called d pharisees HYPOCRITES for shouting their prayers in their homes & in d synagogues?

Keep pondering bro. God is not d author of confusion but some sheperds are.

Dux01: and know this truth no other kind of prayer worries the devil as much as violent prayers

Dux01: and know this truth no other kind of prayer worries the devil as much as viorlent prayers

Sparklesebony:

Dux01: and know this truth no other kind of prayer worries the devil as much as violent prayers

Sparklesebony: One thing I hate about night vigils is d recycling or rephrasing of prayers as if God didn't understand d English or d 1st request.
Another thing, I hate customised prayers e.g: shout my father, my father.
Chorus: My father, my father.
Abeg, who told d prayer leader that that's how i love addressing God? Religion should leave us to know & experience God & ve our personal relationship with Him.

Sparklesebony:

Is this biblical or doctrinal. i.e. biblical teachings or the teachings of men?

drstan: Take a look at this translations

New International Version
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

New Living Translation
And from the time John the Baptist began preaching until now, the Kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people are attacking it.


New American Standard Bible
"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been suffering violence, and the violent have been seizing it by force.

International Standard Version
"From the days of John the Baptist until the present, the kingdom from heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people have been attacking it,

NET Bible
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and forceful people lay hold of it.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
From the time of John the Baptizer until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful people have been seizing it.

Jubilee Bible 2000
From the days of John the Baptist until now, life is given unto the kingdom of the heavens, and the valiant take hold of it.




Douay-Rheims Bible
And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away.


English Revised Version
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.



and looking at this verse critically is talking about the kingdom of God, yes is by grace we will make it to heaven, but before that grace will speak brother there must be contention on our side to fight against every sin, violently without piety of any thing or any one.

God2man:

why are we discussing this topic?

There is no need. The christian life is battle field, we are all soldiers of the Lord. If you are not violent enough, how can you be a soldier? The Bible says we wrestle,
in wrestling, violence is allowed. Jesus said we should go to our closet to pray, Jesus also said we should be persistent in our prayers, Luke 18:7 And shall God not avenge his own elect who CRY out day and night to him, though he BEARS long with them.

Tell me how do you cry? By speaking silently or by shouting.

Beside, 2 Timothy 1;6 Therefore i remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Check your dictionary and look for the meaning of STIR.

To stir may not be violent, but it means excite, move, disturb, change, agitate and so on.


So, what is the basis of this discussion?

Have a nice day.

God bless you.
God2man.