Renowned economics professor, Pat Utomi, in this interview with TOBI AWORINDE, backs a former Governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria, Prof. Charles Soludo, who accused the Goodluck Jonathan-led Federal Government of plunging the country’s economy into severe crisis

Do you think former Central Bank of Nigeria Governor, Prof. Charles Soludo’s argument, depicting the Federal Government as incompetent, was factual?

Absolutely. There are things I want to disagree with there, but there are many things I agree with. And this is really the nature of what political campaigns should be: to raise strong ideas that affect polity, in terms of the quality of life of the citizens. The truth is that there is no one solution in this world; perspectives on that issue can then allow society to find a more robust response. I do think that it is demeaning of the democratic process for people who are responding, instead of looking at the issues he has raised and providing facts to dispute or support, to then embark on ad hominem and personal broad fights against him. By making the whole thing emotive, rather than rational, they take away from quality democracy and this is part of fanning the embers of violence that is going on in this environment.

On the general state of the economy, I agree completely with Soludo. The economy is inchoate as it is. Even more importantly, I agree with him that we have showed no learning (desire), because what is happening now is a complete replica, as he suggested, of 1982.

I have, in fact, given at least five lectures on this subject within the last couple of months, and I said exactly this. Thus, he was not saying anything new. One of the things that strikes me is that in this age, we lack institutional memory to the extent that we repeat so completely mistakes of the past. If the (Shehu) Shagari administration (1979-1983) is blamed for not knowing, surely that mistake should not repeat itself later, because we should have learnt from it.

What are some of these mistakes?

I’ll give you a good example. When oil prices began to rise, we had a visit to Nigeria by the former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to President Reagan, Joseph Stiglitz, who is also a Nobel Prize-winning economist. He gave a lecture at the Lagos Business School, which was attended by a significant part of the Lagos business community. I was a discussant at that lecture, at which I made the point that the way we were going about managing our economy in the face of this oil price rise was dangerous, unsustainable, and showed that we had not learnt from the past. I then suggested at that lecture that under no circumstance should we use more than $40 a barrel for our budget process.

Because the price of oil in those days was so volatile—rising and falling drastically—my argument was that if oil prices rise to $70, everything from between $40 and $70 should go into a stabilisation fund and not be budgeted. Whenever oil prices fall, we have all kinds of abandoned projects, so I said, ‘We don’t want to continue this kind of foolish way of doing things.’ Using that stabilisation fund, when oil prices fall to $10 as in 1998, our budget would remain funded at $40, even though oil price is as low as $10.

The reason is that we would have been saving $30 in the stabilisation fund when it was $70. If it were to then go above $70, as it did go to $130 and more, my proposition was that everything above that should go into a future fund and that this fund can be invested abroad so that future dividends will flow in or in long-term infrastructure because all the children that will be born in Nigeria even 500 years from now have the same right as us to the oil that is put in the ground by God for all of us. Unless some of that money is being used for infrastructure, which they (unborn Nigerians) can use in their time, then we have cheated them out of their own heritage.

Have you made these recommendations to government?

The Minister of Finance, Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, was present at the lecture, and she made her remarks when I finished. She said she agreed with me, but that even the small excess crude that they were struggling to release, the politicians were fighting against it; that even after warning them to save for a rainy day, the politicians kept saying, ‘Look, it is already raining torrents.’ I then said to those sitting with me, ‘We are missing the point. We have a duty to educate and teach these politicians. In ignorance and greed, they want to share everything immediately and cite as their basis the constitution that says it can be s hared.’

We should educate them that when you have these kinds of funds, it does not take away the share of any state government, because they will own their exact proportion of that fund and the management of the fund will be made up of people that will ensure that their portion is not abused. I also further said there that many of our technocrats that are going into government are missing an important point: the power of resignation, to send a message to politicians. I began to give the example of Malaysia. Malaysia would not be what it is today if one young technical medical doctor in government called Mahathir Mohammed did not see something wrong in the prime minister’s policy, which was then referred to as the give-and-take policy.

When he complained about it, he was not only thrown out of the government, he was expelled from the ruling party and he went to write a book titled ‘The Malay Dilemma’. His book literally generated uprisings in Malaysia and the prime minister had to resign. Eventually, he was reabsorbed into the party, became the prime minister and the story of Malaysia changed permanently. Malaysia, which was once worse than us, is now far better.

Why are our technocrats in government not realising this power of resignation to mobilise the public to learn the right thing and to force politicians who are adventurers to behave appropriately? This happened at the LBS. Half of Lagos’ elite business people were there. It is not a secret. All the things I predicted would happen have since happened. So, why should people attack Soludo for saying that it is like 1982? I have said this many times.

Are you saying that Okonjo-Iweala, Fani-Kayode and others in the Federal Government are in denial with their outright rejection of Soludo’s argument?

What do you expect? Some friends and I used to have a gathering around the late Dr. Stanley Macebuh in his house and Patrick Dele Cole would be drinking good brandy and be laughing at me for drinking Fanta. I would raise an issue about government and public office holders, and they would reply, ‘If na you nko?’ That’s my question to you: What do you expect them to do?

Soludo scored the Federal Government an F on economy. What is your assessment of this government?

I don’t want us to get into emotive discussions. I don’t think the management of this economy by this administration is worthy of praise. I believe there is a complete misunderstanding. Because they are not sensitive to people, there is something that has developed in Nigeria; I call it the new mercantilism. One of the biggest mistakes this President has ever made is to suggest that the ownership of private jets is an indicator of Nigeria’s progress. It is a terrible thing. I was praying hard after he said it the first time that he should realise he made a mistake; but he repeated it several times during the World Economic Forum and I was so embarrassed. I said, ‘Oh my goodness, we need help.’ That has been their orientation, they have not noticed that the Nigerian people are actually (poor).

The dynamic question during elections in the US is: Are you better off than you were four years ago? Forget the statistics that anybody may throw at you, because as they say about statistics, there are three things: lies, damn lies and statistics. Anybody can generate statistics to look good. The simple question to the individual citizen is: Is your life better today than it was when these sets of policies were put in place? My submission to you is that, as an individual, I am worse off today than I was four years ago. And I think most Nigerians who examine their consciences would say they are worse off today than they were four years ago. Forget about grades of A or F.

How do the issues you raised about economic mismanagement affect the electorate and the masses?

They are doing Nigerians a disservice by preventing the people from discussing the issues and learning, with this emotive abuse of anybody whose view does not eulogise them. The numbers are there. Soludo points to the Nigerian Bureau of Statistics’ poverty incidence figures. There is this nonsense going around now; I think it was (Femi) Fani-Kayode that said Nigeria was given an award of the biggest economy in Africa, as if it as an award that is being bestowed on them.

The size of an economy is a function of the number of the people in the economy and the productivity of those people, that is, output. If there is a huge population like Nigeria, and the people are producing seriously, it is only logical that the size of the economy of Nigeria should be bigger than the economy of South Africa, which is producing more per person with a much fewer number of people. But because there are more of us, our general output will be bigger than South Africa’s. So, what is the big deal about it? It is simply ignorance that is making people celebrate what they don’t know. I heard President Goodluck Jonathan two days ago (Tuesday) saying, ‘Is there anybody in Nigeria who understands economy better than the people at the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund?’

It is disgraceful for the president of a country to speak like that. He should be the first person to be proud to say his people are better than any other, even if they are not. But in this case, many of our people have worked in the World Bank, and we know that the boys in those places were not half as smart as us in class. So, why should the President make that kind of statement?

How then should Jonathan have responded to his critics?

In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, I was on a study tour at the Central Bank of Malaysia, Bank Negara Malaysia. During my trip, I learnt that Prime Minister Mohammed refused to follow the IMF’s suggestions on what Asian countries should do. Indonesia chose to and Malaysia was the first to escape the financial crisis and begin to run as it did. The IMF was humble enough to admit that Malaysia made a better choice than they had advised Indonesia. I wish the young lady at Bank Negara, who was my tour guide, was there to hear our President’s statement; she would fall over and laugh to death. There are some things we should educate our politicians about. The problem with our politics is that we have refused to use it to learn.

Again, I had the privilege of being an intern as a graduate student in the Washington DC, United States. One of the things I learnt on Capitol Hill with the Indiana delegation to the US Congress—which at the time included people like Dan Quayle, who would later become Vice-President under George Bush Sr.—was that the average senator in the US, who had never studied banking in his life, after serving for four years in the banking sub-committee of the (legislature), would probably be as knowledgeable as a professor of banking, because they do serious work. But our politicians have refused to discipline themselves to understand that it is about serious work. They think it is about motorcades. So, we talk carelessly because we are uninformed and it is hurting our country.

President Jonathan says he has reduced poverty by 50 per cent, but Soludo argues that it has actually increased by 71 per cent and unemployment, 24 per cent. What are the facts about unemployment and poverty in Nigeria?

Based on a report released by Legatum, Nigeria is considered one of the most miserable places to be born on earth. Basically, it is even better to be born in some ragtag African country than to be born in Nigeria because of the quality of life—people dying at childbirth and so on. Look at the Human Development Index, which Soludo also quoted. I was asked to review the HDI a couple of years ago and if you isolated Borno State from Nigeria that year, it would be the poorest country in the world. So, there are many of those dynamics that we’re challenged by and it is one of the imperatives that politicians should go to town debating in detail—issues of poverty, incidence of poverty, why people are poor, etc.

Source: http://www.punchng.com/feature/interview/jonathans-biggest-economic-mistakes-pat-utomi/

loooooonggggg story. Guess I will b back much l8r 2 read it, dnt trust me though

[size=13pt]1) Pat Utomi was handed the popular Volkswagen Nigeria and he run it aground

2) Same Pat Utomi managed Platinum bank. The bank was weak and forced to merge with Habib to become Bank PHB. Even the Bank PHB, where is it now? We are now hearing of Keystone bank owned by new owners because Patitos gang could not manage it properly.

3) My point is, 'talk is cheap'. Nigerians love to criticise alot especially while outside of government. Pat himself could not manage very minute aspects of the economy to profitability. If Okonjo, Reuben Abati etc where not in govt there would probably be criticising too[/size]

Front Page Please

I like the intellectual direction that Soludo paper has thrown up. Now we get informed from the position of our best economists and economy managers; from Ngozi to Dr. Fayemi to Oby, Peter Obi and now Utomi. We are getting informed.

Splashme:
[size=13pt]1) Pat Utomi was handed the popular Volkswagen Nigeria and he run it aground

2) Same Pat Utomi managed Platinum bank. The bank was weak and forced to merge with Habib to become Bank PHB. Even the Bank PHB, where is it now? We are now hearing of Keystone bank owned by new owners because Patitos gang could not manage it properly.


3) My point is, 'talk is cheap'. Nigerians love to criticise alot especially while outside of government. Pat himself could not manage very minute aspects of the economy to profitability. If Okonjo, Reuben Abati etc where not govt there would probably be criticising[/size]

It is not about Patrick Utomi. It's economics and facts. Is your life better now than four years ago?

A TANoid above has already criticise the messenger, characteristics of a typical TANoid, TANoids will disown their own bloods if any objectively criticise this yeye administration, waiting for FFK, OKupe etc to come for Utomi's head.

frontpage.....ooooo

I wish we could rewind this country 2 to 3yrs back so we can spot all those that kicked against savings for rainy day. They fought ECA, SWF and oil benchmarks even when Okonjo-Iweala continued shouting and warning us all. This is the list I can remember:

1) House of Reps (PDP, ACN, CPC etc members because constituency projects)

2) Amaechi's faction of governors forum -opposed SWF and ECA savings strongly and up to the courts

3) Punch newspaper and The Nations - they nearly labelled Okonjo-Iweala an enemy of the nation - preaching savings for rainy day when according to them it was already raining

4) Tinubu - I remember an interview he attacked the FG to save it's own share of the federation account if they care but release the states govs share claiming they have a lot to do at home

Mods Please take this thread to d FP, these are d real issues we should be discussing abt, not all these jargons that we're being made to be busy with

One of the biggest mistakes this President has ever made is to suggest that the ownership of private jets is an indicator of Nigeria’s progress.

It is a terrible thing. I was praying hard after he said it the first time that he should realise he made a mistake; but he repeated it several times during the World Economic Forum and I was so embarrassed. I said, ‘Oh my goodness, we need help.’ That has been their orientation, they have not noticed that the Nigerian people are actually (poor).

I keep asking myself how we ended up with a guy like Jonathan. Intellectually, the guy is just too damn handicapped. He seems to be absolutely ignorant of the least requirements of leadership, let alone, possess same. Then what baffles me even more is how anyone with a brain of a human could support a guy like this to preside over the affairs of a state.

The quote above summarises all there is to the person Jonathan.

Pat Utomi: "One of the things that strikes me is that,at this age we lack,institutional MEMORY to the extent that we REPEAT so completely mistakes of the PAST".. I got this message loud and clear. Gej for continuity

alaoeri:
A TANoid above has already criticise the messenger, characteristics of a typical TANoid, TANoids will disown their own bloods if any objectively criticise this yeye administration, waiting for FFK, OKupe etc to come for Utomi's head.

saTANoids!

kITATITA:

It is not about Patrick Utomi. It's economics and facts. Is your life better now than four years ago?

Nigerians love to criticise when they are not in govt.

Why didn't Pat Utomi speak up strongly in support of Okonjo-Iweala and Sanusi Lamido when they were left alone battling the governors and National Assembly on ECA, SWF and budget benchmarks?

Please do not insult Prof. Utomi because of his contrary opinion.

Splashme:
[size=13pt]1) Pat Utomi was handed the popular Volkswagen Nigeria and he run it aground

2) Same Pat Utomi managed Platinum bank. The bank was weak and forced to merge with Habib to become Bank PHB. Even the Bank PHB, where is it now? We are now hearing of Keystone bank owned by new owners because Patitos gang could not manage it properly.


3) My point is, 'talk is cheap'. Nigerians love to criticise alot especially while outside of government. Pat himself could not manage very minute aspects of the economy to profitability. If Okonjo, Reuben Abati etc where not govt there would probably be criticising[/size]

How many jets do you have??

Have you been able to manage the MB on your cellphone

Listen to the message, joor!!!!

gregg2:
I wish we could rewind this country 2 to 3yrs back so we can spots all supporters of higher benchmarks. This is the list I can remember:

1) House of Reps (PDP, ACN, CPC etc members because constituency projects)

2) Amaechi's faction of governors forum -opposed SWF and ECA savings strongly and up to the courts

3) Punch newspaper and The Nations - they nearly labelled Okonjo-Iweala an enemy of the nation - preaching savings for rainy day when according to them it was already raining

4) Tinubu - I remember an interview he attacked the FG to save it's own share of the federation account if they care but release the states govs share claiming they have a lot to do at home

1. Amaechi n co started saving before the clueless one stopped giving them full allocation. so where is the money?
2. The SWF was illegal as there was no law or agreements setting it up. Besides federal government gets about 52% of all allocations while d remaining are shared by the states n LGs. so why can't the fed government save its share?
3.fiscal indiscipline and corruption are the hallmarks of this administration. maybe you can explain the missing $20b, $1.3trillion subsidy scam, pension funds, oduagate, 400k oil barrel being lost to bunkering daily e.t.c

Obrigardo:
Please do not insult Prof. Utomi because of his contrary opinion.

[size=13pt]It's not an insult. Nigerians love to criticise, give commentaries and analyse beautifully when they are outside govt.

So, why did he fail with Volksagen, Platinum bank and Bank PHB?[/size]

kITATITA:

It is not about Patrick Utomi. It's economics and facts. Is your life better now than four years ago?

Oga, for me and my family, yes, our lives are much better now than it was 4yrs ago.

Stop whining on social media waiting on govt to provide your every need. Our annual budget is a paltry 4 trillion. 75% of that is used for workers salary while the remaining 25% is used for projects in a population of over 170m people

Mumu is not a condition I proudly proclaim. It was with a heavy heart that I came to this shocking realization that we are indeed a country of mumus. Harsh as it might sound, no other explanation would suffice. It is apparent that the “leaders” know that they would always get away with whatever incredible schemes they concoct because, amongst other reasons,

(a) the mumu people they “lead” are no different from their mumu “leaders” in character
(b) the mumu people are gullible, superstitious and naive
(c) there are no consequences for criminal acts if you belong to the right group
(d) these mumus never demand accountability from their “leaders”
(e) the mumus expect their rulers to loot or would otherwise consider them foolish

Lagbaja

Splashme:


Oga, for me and my family, yes, our lives are much better now than it was 4yrs ago.

Stop whining on social media waiting on govt to provide your every need. Our annual budget is a paltry 4 trillion. 75% of that is used for workers salary while the remaining 25% is used for projects in a population of over 170m people

You probably work for this government. I'm not hungry in any way but I have more people approaching me for assistance and more people bemoaning loss of opportunities. The hospitals are not better and the schools are not better. We shouldn't abrogate the discourse. It should be fact oriented.

gregg2:
I wish we could rewind this country 2 to 3yrs back so we can spot all those that kicked against savings for rainy day. They fought ECA, SWF and oil benchmarks even when Okonjo-Iweala continued shouting and warning us all. This is the list I can remember:

1) House of Reps (PDP, ACN, CPC etc members because constituency projects)

2) Amaechi's faction of governors forum -opposed SWF and ECA savings strongly and up to the courts

3) Punch newspaper and The Nations - they nearly labelled Okonjo-Iweala an enemy of the nation - preaching savings for rainy day when according to them it was already raining

4) Tinubu - I remember an interview he attacked the FG to save it's own share of the federation account if they care but release the states govs share claiming they have a lot to do at home

Its so easy when we place blames on others and most dangerously on the wrong person.

This issue you just highlighted was the same issue NOI has been shouting, fighting and praying that these politicians will see reasons. Yet it was one of the problems Amaechi had with GEJ in the Governor's Forum.

Its the same issue these ignorant APC goons keep using as a launching pad for the attack on GEJ for 'wasting' the ECA. Now this same Pat Utomi has come up with his own rag-tag analysis. We should ask what did these same Governors do with their own share of the ECA?

See, we do not know what it takes to become a leader until we become one, until we begin to assume a role as a leader and in fact, a very divided, complicated, complex and dynamic society as ours we'll never know or have an idea of how difficult and most times endangering it could be.

Now one question he asked if I am better off as a person in the last four years? My answer to that is YES. How? Roads have been re-constructed and time wastage on roads have been reduced. I ply these roads. Increased economic activity translates to improved bottom line results. Stable exchange rates, stable prices and a single digit inflation rate even in times of low oil prices - I guess he didn't notice it. Reduced food prices as a result of improving Agricultural sector. Crashed cement prices - affordable housing. Improved maternal health, reduced child birth and maternal mortality. As a creative entrepreneur, I get too many options to choose from in seeking grants (loans) from Micro Finance institutions not banks with their high interest rates. Reduced travel time (remodelled, upgraded airports) for international flights into the Eastern part of the country. YES, improved power supply and security especially here in Lagos. And so much more. Oh, increased allowee for Youth Corps members.

So YES, in four years, my life has been better off.

People turn saints just by criticising GEJ's government. I would like to warn you (saints) that the heaven(APC) u are hoping for will ever be a mirage. They have seen that the present government don't give a damn about them.

CONVERSATION BETWEEN SOLUDO AND PAT UTOMI

PAT: Hello, the economist

SOLUDO: my honourable colleague, how are you doing?

PAT: we give God the glory, at least we are still alive.

SOLUDO: Do you follow Nigeria politics?

PAT: are asking dog whether it still eats sh*t? You know that is where we belong.

SOLUDO: I have an idea, we need to seek relevance in the polity.

PAT: Relevance, how?

SOLUDO: I need to go back to the government but since the GEJ's government hardly notice my intellectual, it is better I pinch my tent with the controversial opposition, APC. I have watched their campaigns in the different states of the country and it seems they are gaining ground.

PAT: That is good idea but how do u intend to go about it?

SOLUDO: Criticism! If you watch very well you will see that the only thing that will earn you APC membership is just criticism, criticise GEJ's government and become a saint.

PAT: that is why always call you the "first-class brain" We need it now, we really need appointments if APC wins. Have you come up with anything at all?

SOLUDO: my honourable colleague, facts and figures are there to be used. How many of them are good with figures? Quote anything in percentage and they will agree. At least, we are authorities in the economy.

PAT: the chief economist, put something up let me support you.

SOLUDO: hahahahahahahahahahahaah

PAT: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

SOLUDO: how is family?

PAT: very good, and urs?

SOLUDO: lovely.
END!

Splashme:


Oga, for me and my family, yes, our lives are much better now than it was 4yrs ago.

Stop whining on social media waiting on govt to provide your every need. Our annual budget is a paltry 4 trillion. 75% of that is used for workers salary while the remaining 25% is used for projects in a population of over 170m people

Thank you for this. Yet this same government is fight ghost workers syndrome, ensuring that unspent votes are returned to government treasury, systems are put in place to prevent graft all to free up some funds and add to capital votes.

In four years, I've been better off. We should remove sentiments. If you're poor financially, it doesn't mean you're poor mentally.

Some people are looking for the slightest opportunity to get a visa to run away from Nigeria, in addition they have not seen electricity in their homes for days neither do they have access to good schools and hospitals for their family, yet in the midst of this suffering they will come out and be shouting GEJ & PDP because he's their brother. Shame On them!

We should understand that this struggle is beyond ethnic or religious sentiments, it is a struggle for a better Nigeria. A CHANGE! in government.

Vote for Buhari!

Babacele:
1. Amaechi n co started saving before the clueless one stopped giving them full allocation. so where is the money?
2. The SWF was illegal as there was no law or agreements setting it up. Besides federal government gets about 52% of all allocations while d remaining are shared by the states n LGs. so why can't the fed government save its share?
3.fiscal indiscipline and corruption are the hallmarks of this administration. maybe you can explain the missing $20b, $1.3trillion subsidy scam, pension funds, oduagate, 400k oil barrel being lost to bunkering daily e.t.c

Firstly, you do not even know what happens in Rivers State. You claim Amaechi has been saving? For whom? For what purpose? Why? For elections?

Because I do know that he is constructing a light rail from Mile 1 to Lagos which is JUST 50 NAIRA ONLY using either BUS or TAXI for close to 4 years. Yet GEJ constructed thousands of kilometres of rail lines across the length and breath of this country in 6 years. Now who is deceiving who?

In that same Rivers, GEJ is constructing the East-West road and Port-Harcourt - Owerri expressway. Amaechi said spent close to 100 Billion NGN constructing the Omagwa - Eleme section of the road which of course will be refunded but contested.

If you know what SWF is, you'd be the first to embrace and promote the concept behind it. Its laughable when you say its illegal. You should know its equivalent to the Stabilisation Fund your new comrade Utomi was talking about. Yet it was you Amaechi guy who spear-headed the fight against it.

So long as you're one of these APC fans, you won't be objective.

Many ppl finding fault in Jonathan's govt. Pity!!!!

ppl who cud not manage biz dey chair head claiming to know better.

I feel like weeping whenever i hear such indictment against government. Politicians have been ruining the lives of Nigerians since independence and they are nw working to destroy that of generations unborn.

Nigeria clearly needs a visionary leader. One who lays the foundation (and inspires d subsequent leaders) of a country we can be proud of.

Many people think its a matter of replacing GEJ with an ex-dictator and all our problems are solved. But these men and the interests backing them are part of the problem.

Where is our Mahathir Mohammed, our Lee Kuan Yew and Indira Gandhi??