This questions has been re occurring in my mind for
sometime now since this is the attitude of most
Christians and muslims alike
1-Should the fear of hell b your prerequisite for
worshiping God? If yes what if there was no hell?
2-should your love for paradise be your condition
for worshiping God? If yes what if paradise did not
exist
3-should you pray to God cause we are in need?if
yes doesn't it make you like a trader who sells his
goods only to make profits and what if our needs
have been granted will there be any need to pray?
if our answers to these questions are otherwise then
why should worship GoD or pray to God?

In the belief of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah which every Muslim is obliged to subscribe to, Allaah prescribed punishments for sins so that we may shun sins.

It follows therefore that a Muslim shuns sins because of the fear of Allah's punishment.

In the Sufi parlance and erroneous belief, they claim they worship Allaah because of the love for Allaah and not because of the hope for Jannah or the fear of Jahannam. This is against the belief that the Messenger has left us upon.

Aboo Hurayrah narrated, the messenger of Allaah said:

"The similitude of myself and people is like that of a man who prepares fire and when it lightens up, insects began to fall into it. The man began to prevent them from the fire while they overpower him and were falling into it.

So, I am holding back your loins while you are finding your ways of falling into it. "

Reported by Bukhaaree and Muslim.

So, this hadeeth proves that we shun sins for the fear of Allaah’s punishment.

Allaah knows better.

athari22:
In the belief of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah which every Muslim is obliged to subscribe to, Allaah prescribed punishments for sins so that we may shun sins.

It follows therefore that a Muslim shuns sins because of the fear of Allah's punishment.

In the Sufi parlance and erroneous belief, they claim they worship Allaah because of the love for Allaah and not because of the hope for Jannah or the fear of Jahannam. This is against the belief that the Messenger has left us upon.

Aboo Hurayrah narrated, the messenger of Allaah said:

"The similitude of myself and people is like that of a man who prepares fire and when it lightens up, insects began to fall into it. The man began to prevent them from the fire while they overpower him and were falling into it.

So, I am holding back your loins while you are finding your ways of falling into it. "

Reported by Bukhaaree and Muslim.

So, this hadeeth proves that we shun sins for the fear of Allaah’s punishment.

Allaah know better.

If the above is true what is ur say about this there groups of worshipers
1-A group of people worshipped God out of desire
for reward;this is the worship of traders.
2-another group worshipppped God out of fear;this
is the worship of slaves
3-another group worshiped God out of gratitude;this
is the worship of freemen
Even if God had not warned those disobedient to
Him of chastisement,it was obligatory by way of
gratefulness for his favour that He should not be
disobeyed
Group1,2 or 3 which is better?

In Islaam, we are not given to logic.

Allaah commanded that we worship Him hoping for paradise and with the fear of Hell.

Allaah said about some of His prophets - who are our role models as Muslims,

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 90:
فَاسْتَجَبْنَا لَهُ وَوَهَبْنَا لَهُ يَحْيَىٰ وَأَصْلَحْنَا لَهُ زَوْجَهُ إِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا يُسَارِعُونَ فِي الْخَيْرَاتِ وَيَدْعُونَنَا رَغَبًا وَرَهَبًا وَكَانُوا لَنَا خَاشِعِينَ

' So We answered his call, and We bestowed upon him Yahya (John), and cured his wife (to bear a child) for him. Verily, they used to hasten on to do good deeds, and they used to call on Us with hope and fear, and used to humble themselves before Us. '

So, the classification is of no value. We only take to what Allaah stipulates without the use of logic.

A Muslim worships Allaah out of love for Him definitely. It is part of His love that one fears His chastisement too. The above verse describes a true Muslim.

athari22:
A Muslim worships Allaah out of love for Him definitely. It is part of His love that one fears His chastisement too. The above verse describes a true Muslim.

There are numerous verses in the koran which made mention of knowledge,intellect,pondering as a human vital instrument for worship
I will ask you a simple question here..if the human sole goal is the worship of God and the brain one of mans most important organ,doesn't it have a vital role to play to enable man accomplish this sole aim? Indeed God does not create anytin in vain,he exppects us to use our brains in worship dat is why he has created us with one
Yes you are indeed very correct we should love and fear Allah but don't you think a better definition is "The FEAR TO DISOBEY HIM DUE TO YOUR LOVE HIM" it is only natural that when you love some1 so much you will always want to do what makes him happy and desist from that wich makes him unhappy.
What is your say brother?

dekatrons:

There are numerous verses in the koran which made mention of knowledge,intellect,pondering as a human vital instrument for worship
I will ask you a simple question here..if the human sole goal is the worship of God and the brain one of mans most important organ,doesn't it have a vital role to play to enable man accomplish this sole aim? Indeed God does not create anytin in vain,he exppects us to use our brains in worship dat is why he has created us with one
Yes you are indeed very correct we should love and fear Allah but don't you think a better definition is "The FEAR TO DISOBEY HIM DUE TO YOUR LOVE HIM" it is only natural that when you love some1 so much you will always want to do what makes him happy and desist from that wich makes him unhappy.
What is your say brother?

The similitude of the human intellect and the divine relations is like that of the eye and light.

We are required to use our senses to understand and comprehend divine revelations which is to be understood as Allaah revealed them with the tutoring of his messenger (sallalLaahu 'alyhi wasallam).

Allaah says, Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 106:

اتَّبِعْ مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

Follow what has been inspired to you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) and turn aside from Al-Mushrikun.'

athari22:


The similitude of the human intellect and the divine relations is like that of the eye and light.

We are required to use our senses to understand and comprehend divine revelations which is to be understood as Allaah revealed them with the tutoring of his messenger (sallalLaahu 'alyhi wasallam).

Allaah says, Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 106:

اتَّبِعْ مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

Follow what has been inspired to you (O Muhammad SAW) from your Lord, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) and turn aside from Al-Mushrikun.'

The eye to light I nice one.but don't you think that the eye is needed to see the light? .as you know the koran has a literal as well as an ontological meaning which is a deeper and otherwordly meaning or a truer meaning this is the what lead to the tefsir of the koran. Men such as ibnul kathir did an extensive
Work or it.indeed if the have not pondered deeply on this great book they wouldn't have come out wit such works
Indeed it was stated that mohammad was sinless and again was to be forgiven for whatever sin he will commit so to speak.yet he spent the nights awake praying to his lord. Will it be said that such a person who had no sin and will be forgiven if he committed any was praying due to his fear for hell?
Note;I'm not saying dat we shouldn't fear hell,what I am saying is should the fear of hell be a condition for worshipping God. That is to say if hell was not to exist there will be no need whatsoever to worship

The primary purpose of existence is worship. Jannah and Jahanaam are incentives to help us achieve that purpose using two sensations, we understand. Pain and pleasure.

Why the assumption that God needs your worship? Why can't worship be a way of helping a person connect with his maker? The intrinsic light within connecting with the light outside... It is your purpose.

Why is worship not a way of helping the created achieve is purpose?

what is the use of a car if it is not driven? What happens to a car that remains dormant for a long time? It goes bad....

What happens to the eyes if it is left closed or in darkness for extended periods? It loses its light... What happens to a heart that fails to connect with its maker for a long time?... It loses the connection and hence guidance.

tbaba1234:
The primary purpose of existence is worship. Jannah and Jahanaam are incentives to help of achieve that purpose by two sensations, we understand. Pain and pleasure.

Why the assumption that God needs your worship? Why can't worship be a way of helping a person connect with his maker? The intrinsic light within connecting with the light outside... It is your purpose.

Why is worship not a way of helping the created achieve is purpose?

what is the use of a car if it is not driven? What happens to a car that remains dormant for a long time? It goes bad....

What happens to the eyes if it is left closed or in darkness for extended periods? It loses its light... What happens to a heart that fails to connect with its maker for a long time?... It loses the connection and hence guidance.

Logical..nice one

tbaba1234:
The primary purpose of existence is worship. Jannah and Jahanaam are incentives to help of achieve that purpose by two sensations, we understand. Pain and pleasure.

Why the assumption that God needs your worship? Why can't worship be a way of helping a person connect with his maker? The intrinsic light within connecting with the light outside... It is your purpose.

Why is worship not a way of helping the created achieve is purpose?

what is the use of a car if it is not driven? What happens to a car that remains dormant for a long time? It goes bad....

What happens to the eyes if it is left closed or in darkness for extended periods? It loses its light... What happens to a heart that fails to connect with its maker for a long time?... It loses the connection and hence guidance.

but we all know that God doesn't need our worship. The question is should we worship Him out of fear of hell,or love for Him

dekatrons:

but we all know that God doesn't need our worship. The question is should we worship Him out of fear of hell,or love for Him

We worship to fulfill our purpose. We do this with a balance of fear or hope/love. Not one or the other.

tbaba1234:


We worship to fulfill our purpose. We do this with a balance of fear or hope/love. Not one or the other.

Nice.
What of the case of the prophet who had no sin nd still devoted must of his time worshiping God..should it b said that his fear for hell prompt him to worship God a lot .since we know that the sinless have no hell to fear
Fear of Hell signifies fear of a creation of Allah..isn't that a type of shirk?

dekatrons:

Nice.
What of the case of the prophet who had no sin nd still devoted must of his time worshiping God..should it b said that his fear for hell prompt him to worship God a lot .since we know that the sinless have no hell to fear
Fear of Hell signifies fear of a creation of Allah..isn't that a type of shirk?

Even the prophet had the same purpose to worship. He feared the displeasure of his master too and hoped for his love and Mercy. It is not just about hell. Either way, he fulfilled his purpose.

We fear the punishment of Allah, because we have been told to protect ourselves from it. Also, fear is a normal human emotion. There is nothing wrong in feeling fear as long as it is not an object of worship.

Using logic here would only land us in a recycling error.

A tenacious attachment to divine traditions is the only measure of safety so that what happened to the Christians and the Jews will not happen to us with time...

Allaah says:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 1:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ اتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَلَا تُطِعِ الْكَافِرِينَ وَالْمُنَافِقِينَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا

O Prophet (Muhammad)! Keep your duty to Allah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advices). Verily! Allah is Ever AllKnower, All Wise. '

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 2:
وَاتَّبِعْ مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا

And follow that which is inspired in you from your Lord. Verily, Allah is WellAcquainted with what you do.'

May Allaah protect us from misguidance.

athari22:
Using logic here would only land us in a recycling error.

A tenacious attachment to divine traditions is the only measure of safety so that what happened to the Christians and the Jews will not happen to us with time...

Allaah says:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 1:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ اتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَلَا تُطِعِ الْكَافِرِينَ وَالْمُنَافِقِينَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا

O Prophet (Muhammad)! Keep your duty to Allah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advices). Verily! Allah is Ever AllKnower, All Wise. '

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 2:
وَاتَّبِعْ مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا

And follow that which is inspired in you from your Lord. Verily, Allah is WellAcquainted with what you do.'

May Allaah protect us from misguidance.

My brother if logic is not does not play a vital role in religion den why ask the christians to explain their concept of trinity logically? Why ask if it is logical for God to concieve? If logic had no role to play then their answer that man cannot understand the things of the spirit or other answers like this would be sufficient.or don't you think so?

I don't know what you mean by misquidance. We are just trying to clarify an issue here. And no one is compelling another to accept his or her view(s)

Salam Athari, Allah uses logic to convince disbelievers in the Quran. He asks us to use our minds and reason. If we remove logic, nothing separates us from christians. We can as well believe God has a son.

The thing is about creating a balance. Even scholars use logic to ascertain the wisdoms behind rulings. I find your ignore logic concept rather strange, it is not from Islam.

As salam alaykum warahmatullah wabarkatuhu
I agree with tbaba . My understanding has always been that we MUST use our logic. Allah makes things easy for us to understand. This is why muslims MUST understand why we do what Allah and His Prophet (SAW) command. (Not why He commands it for some He makes clear and others are best known to Him)

It is perfectly acceptable to Allah that we worship Him out of love, out of fear of His anger and out of Hope for His rewards. Isn't this what separates a believer from a kafir? Thinking, speaking and acting in remembrance of The Unseen?

May Allah safeguard us. Ameen

Salam aleikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,
Firstly, i would love if the word LOGIC is substituted for REASONING, CONTEMPLATION OR MEDITATION...you can check the dictionary meaning so you understand where am coming from..

Concerning the topic, i think fear of hell and hope of paradise "WHEN COMBINED WITH REASONING/CONTEMPLATION/MEDITATON will generate to love of worshipping Allah(swt) due to His love for you...

Picture this scenario of when we were kids and our fathers were harsh on us (as we thought) making us study than we would love to, disciplining us when we displease him and rewarding us when we please him, at our tender age we might not get the scope of the whole scene our fathers create promising us goodies if we get good grades and promising us punishment for getting bad grades, as we grow and our reasoning capacity develops we get to understand the idea behind the good time and bad time our father had promised us...At the end we get to know he had our best of interest and we get to love him and appreciate all the disciplinary methods used to shapen our future......

bear with me, am really bad with examples but i hope you get my point...

NB: Allah's love for us is greater than our fathers love because He stand to gain nothing from it i.r No Selfish Insterest conpare to our fathers who have it in mind to eat fruit of their labour...

There are several hadiths that show Allah(swt) loves his slaves particulary we human being..he favoured us over all his creations can you imagine even Angels who worship him 24/7...what does that tell you?

There is an hadith which states Allah is more happy than a man who lost and found his camel which had his provision while journeying through a desert when a slave of His comes to him repenting...how to describe that kind of love even though He is of no need of us...

Salaam alaykum
Thanks brothers and sisters for ur very enlightening contribution
Still what to clarify this issue further thou
should we fear the displeasure of God due to our Love for Him or Love(worship) him due to our Fear of Hell?
Better still should we teach a child to worship Allah out of Fear of hell? Or worship Him due to Love for?
note I'm nt saying that we should fear the displeasure of God what I mean is should We fear
Wat I mean is fear of hell and love of God which should be our prerequisite for worship

dekatrons:
Salaam alaykum
Thanks brothers and sisters for ur very enlightening contribution
Still what to clarify this issue further thou
should we fear the displeasure of God due to our Love for Him or Love(worship) him due to our Fear of Hell?
Better still should we teach a child to worship Allah out of Fear of hell? Or worship Him due to Love for?
note I'm nt saying that we should fear the displeasure of God what I mean is should We fear
Wat I mean is fear of hell and love of God which should be our prerequisite for worship

Why is it important to separate/select one? Will this analysis bring one closer to Allah? Is Allah's reward real? Is Hell real? Even though none of us saw it? Why not worship Him for all three reasons Or worship Him because He created you for that purpose?

I am trying to follow this topic to see how it brings us closer to Allah.

AgentXxx:
Salam aleikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,
Firstly, i would love if the word LOGIC is substituted for REASONING, CONTEMPLATION OR MEDITATION...you can check the dictionary meaning so you understand where am coming from.....

Logic (from the Ancient Greek: λογική, logike)[1] is the use and study of valid reasoning.[2][3] The study of logic features most prominently in the subjects of philosophy, mathematics, and computer science.

IMO - Use of valid Reasoning. Would it relate to reflecting or using one's brain? I am not good at playing on words. In my post and the other posts I read, I loosely used the word as "reason, think, ponder, understand" i.e do not swallow "hook, line and sinker"

AgentXxx:
Salam aleikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,
Picture this scenario of when we were kids and our fathers were harsh on us (as we thought) making us study than we would love to, disciplining us when we displease him and rewarding us when we please him, at our tender age we might not get the scope of the whole scene our fathers create promising us goodies if we get good grades and promising us punishment for getting bad grades, as we grow and our reasoning capacity develops we get to understand the idea behind the good time and bad time our father had promised us...At the end we get to know he had our best of interest and we get to love him and appreciate all the disciplinary methods used to shapen our future...

You just made use of logic in the above quoted
By the way we know that every child who sins deserves punishment that is justice but the question is should the childs reason for not committing a crime be the result of his fear of punishment a situation which is similar to submission of the body cause when the punishment is removed he definitely goes back to the crime
Or should his condition for not sinning be the result of pure and untainted love for his master in that his fear for sinning is the result of his love for his master a condition referred to as submission of the intellect and of the mind

@Ayinba....I have not said that we shouldn't fear Allah.what I have said is our fear to displease him should be a result of our love for him,cvause it is only natural that if you love some1 you will always want to do everything to please him and avoid doing anything that displeases him
What I ask is should our reason for worship God be de result of our fear of HELL .if the reply is affrimative I will like/love to ask, isn't hell a creation of Allah is worshiping Allah as a result of the fear of hell no a fear of a creation of Allah that is, is the fear of hell not a fear of Allah's creation
If so isn't it a kind of shirk to worship Allah due to our fear of His creation(Hell)

Thank you brother. You should not fear hell, it is a creation. You should fear being condemned to hell which is an action performed ONLY by Allah. So I do not see how one can be afraid of hell as you put it. Fear getting hell as a result of your actions/inactions. The results will be handed out by Allah.

How on earth did anyone arrive at fear of hell anyways?

you are missing the point, if the child contemplate on why his father acts this way, he will get to know that his father loves him.

there's an hadith that says "HE(Allah) didn't create the jinn or mankind except to worship him...its further explained that Worship him means Know him through His attributes so from knowing him through contemplation you get to know He loves you and end up loving him..[

Fear and Hope are stepping stone leading to loving him provided you contemplate

dekatrons:

You just made use of logic in the above quoted
By the way we know that every child who sins deserves punishment that is justice but the question is should the childs reason for not committing a crime be the result of his fear of punishment a situation which is similar to submission of the body cause when the punishment is removed he definitely goes back to the crime
Or should his condition for not sinning be the result of pure and untainted love for his master in that his fear for sinning is the result of his love for his master a condition referred to as submission of the intellect and of the mind

Logic is limited and applies to physical science while reasoning/contemplation/meditation is unlimited and is perfect for usage in natural/religious science.. Find out more about it usage ...
NB:Even quran translator will never use logic because of it narrowness

ayinba1:


Why is it important to separate/select one? Will this analysis bring one closer to Allah? Is Allah's reward real? Is Hell real? Even though none of us saw it? Why not worship Him for all three reasons Or worship Him because He created you for that purpose?

I am trying to follow this topic to see how it brings us closer to Allah.



Logic (from the Ancient Greek: λογική, logike)[1] is the use and study of valid reasoning.[2][3] The study of logic features most prominently in the subjects of philosophy, mathematics, and computer science.

IMO - Use of valid Reasoning. Would it relate to reflecting or using one's brain? I am not good at playing on words. In my post and the other posts I read, I loosely used the word as "reason, think, ponder, understand" i.e do not swallow "hook, line and sinker"

Naam@ agentxxxx.beautiful hadith indeed
weda directly or indirectly the hadith is affirming to the worship of God due to love
It made mention of knowing...assuredly you can only love or hate some1 when you know his goods and bad attribute
As we know the attributes of Allah points to infinite perfection that is infinitely beautiful essence so the more we know him the more we love him,
So the hadith stipulates that we should worship him by knowing His attribute..indirectly saying that we should worship him out of love
Note;when you Love some1 you will fear to displease him too

Naam you are on track so you see where reflection comes in, without it you can't know Him.. and remember Mercy(hope) n Wrath(Fear) are among His attributes...the degree of reflection differentiate the slaves of Allah from muslim to mumin to musin

dekatrons:
Naam@ agentxxxx.beautiful hadith indeed
weda directly or indirectly the hadith is affirming to the worship of God due to love
It made mention of knowing...assuredly you can only love or hate some1 when you know his goods and bad attribute
As we know the attributes of Allah points to infinite perfection that is infinitely beautiful essence so the more we know him the more we love him,
So the hadith stipulates that we should worship him by knowing His attribute..indirectly saying that we should worship him out of love
Note;when you Love some1 you will fear to displease him too