₦airaland Forum

hahn:
Most religionists don't read about the history of their religion or study up on other religious beliefs. Those are some of the factors of their ignorance

And what more can be worst than ignorance that comes with its own delusion. Now someone can sit in his comfort of his home and tell you about Gods personality, yet the same person would the you that this same God is beyond human comprhension. They give so many omini yet they explain him like a human.

frank317:
And what more can be worst than ignorance that comes with its own delusion. Now someone can sit in his comfort of his home and tell you about Gods personality, yet the same person would the you that this same God is beyond human comprhension. They give so many omini yet they explain him like a human.

Ominibogus!

vfactor:
Is that all? Okay. I respect your opinion. And you made some valid points; he knows the final result of your decision. Agreed! No dispute. But what I am asking is does God always know which choice u will make? He knows the outcome of any choice, but does he always know which choice you will make?

Let's look at the implication of your point. From your argument it is safe to say God knows Adam will sin, but still asked him no to sin. Does it sound logical? It like placing a yam in front of a goat and asking the goat not to eat the yam when you know it will eat it? Does it sound wise and reasonable?

Your argument also implies that some persons have been saved and condemned from birth. In other words what they will end up as has already been know. They can not do differently. Could rightly punish those persons, since they really don't have a choice?

God being all knowing, knows exactly the outcome of any decision will take and he warns us against the bad. If he already knows we would not obey, why warn us?

Granted, God can know and determine the course persons life, but there re only few cases in the bible were God did such. And he did that in other to carry out his purpose at that point in time. However the vast majority of humans have a choice either to what is right or wrong (Deu. 30:19). This would not be an option if God has already know we could not.

Dnt think the questions you posted here will be answered by those who believe in the omniscience of God. Trying to give an answer might create an earthquake in their beliefs.

As for others, simple biblical answers can not be used here, why? Cus human wisdom and bible knowledge do not always go hand in hand.

I guess this thread should be on front page lalasticlala.


One of the best threads i ve read on this forum.


Remebered my elemantary days.
Was told that heaven is in the sky and hell ibeneath the ground.


That egyptians were building a mansion that wanted to touch the sky, God sent lightning to destroy the mansion.

Then i asked myself, those mansions and these skyscrappers were seein today, which is taller?

vfactor:
I used an illustrate of a father's personal item earlier to explain this fact. The tree was not test Adam. The restriction was a sign of authority over Adam. And the fact that God can foreknow doesn't mean he always. Humans have free will and are not robot.

So this is an appropriate scenario. Fathers comes home with a new ceramic plate and tells excited son, this is my own plate. U can use all others in the house. But not this it's mine.

The father trust that the boy will obey him.

Your scenario is not appropriate because the hypothetical human father doesn't know whether his son will break his plate in 5 mins or even murder him somehow with the object. If he knew, or had the power to acquire the knowledge, he wouldn't waste his time or breath on the child.

Finally the all knowing vfactor has bowed and ran like a scared dog. I warned you before the conversation that you would be exposed as someone who knows nothing.
You started here with the op answering questions like you were God. Now can you see you are not God? Can u see you know nothing?
I hope you would research about your so called bible and stop all these mythical believes. People here are not fools so do not come out in a forum to talk anyhow... Peace.
One down many more to go.

You guys ran vfactor out the building lol , lets get back to the others . vfactor where at thou? every opinion matters

stillreal:
You guys ran vfactor out the building lol , lets get back to the others . vfactor where at thou? every opinion matters

Naa! I am giving my final reply this evening. He raised some questions I need to answer

frank317:
1. If the Bible is your source why are you afraid of mentioning it. You are acting like a dog hiding its tail under his legs. The bible is your source. And ancient Jewish book with so much contradiction is your source? A book that has a story as rediculious as Job's is your source? This us how you get to know the creators choses to weild his foreknowledge power at will? You are sound so confident based on a book written by men? Are u joking or something? I always knew you know nothing. So you no nothing just what the book says?

2. I have explained to you what I mean by the end of the world using a stone analogy, if you don't understand reread or tell me to explain further.

3. God chooses to wield his power in situations that affect his purpose? You think you can just quote anything to me? So what situation can we say does not affect his purpose? So when he chose not to wield his foreknowledge power in the case of Adam and Eve, he assumed the situation would not affect his purpose? Are you trying to tell me that the fall of man did not affect his purpose? When then did he get angry and curse man till this day? Why did he send his son to redeem man? Why did he even put the tree there if it wouldn't affect his purpose? Again when does a situation not affect his purpose?

4. So when it comes to free will God limits his foreknowledge ability? To what extent does he limit this power? And are you trying to say God does not know the choice we will make as humans? God does not know the choice I will make if I am to decide to travel tomorrow or not?

First of all. I am not afraid of mentioning the bible. Probably you ve not been reading my comments. To describe the bible as ridiculous means u ve never read it cover to cover. Just what you heard in Sunday school while young!

Of all the questions you raised, I will only respond to No. 3. And I am responding cos of other readers of these thread who may be open minded enough to weigh matter from both side. And unfortunately I am going to use the 'ancient ridiculous Jewish book' - this time profusely!

First, let's consider the implication of God foreknowing every event in human history. That would mean that before God even started to create, all the events in this world - every good deeds, atrocities, suicide bombings, atom bomb on Hiroshima and both world wars - have all existed in God's mind because of his ability to foreknow event. Yet he still went ahead to create man! Now what would be his aim? In your own words, what is he trying to prove? That means that God would be the source of all sufferings for the fact that he knew what would happen and still went ahead to do so. Does that sound reasonable? Would the maker of common sense and the giver of it, not have an abundance of it?

The bible in Deuteronomy 6:5 asked people to love God with all our heart. How is it possible to love God when you know he initiated the suffering on earth by creating man, when he know man would fail?

When I made the statement that God exercises his power of foreknowledge selectively, people thought I was just making baseless assertions. Well consider these few biblical examples:

When God was about to destroy the people in Noah's day, the bible referred to God as feeling regret that he had made man. (Genesis 6:5,6). Now why would God feel regret for something he already knew would happen?

Another example: before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah, God had a conversation with Abraham, by means of his angel. I quote:

And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Genesis 18:20,21 KJV.

Now why would God need to investigate what was happening in Sodom and Gomorah before knowing?

There re other examples of Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:5-, The test of Abraham (Genesis 22:11, 12), to name but a few which further proves God's selective foreknowledge.

God does use his power of foreknowledge. He uses this power when he wishes. In prophecies. In the case of Adam he had no need to. According to Genesis 1:26, God saw that all his work were very good. He knows that nothing that could happen that could prevent him from accomplishing his purpose for the earth and man. Even when things eventually turned for bad, he used his power of foreknowledge to prophesy of a "seed" that would break the works of the devil. (Gen. 3:15).

Really, saying that God does not selectively use his power of foreknowledge would not only be ignoring scriptural evidences, but also limit to God to our own standard of how a creator should be. With Him all things are possible - including the ability to selectively choose what he wishes to foreknow or not.

You may, dismiss all the above as mere folklores of ancient Jews. But doing so without properly examining the bible thoroughly would be ridiculous. I urged you to examine the bible with regards to: historical data, scientific subjects, prophecies and principles for living. Many reputable men, whom you wouldn't call ordinary and shallow thinkers have done these and have seen that the bible is really unique, albeit great misunderstood!

And to all Christians, I urge you to study your bible. Question what you have been taught from childhood and search the scriptures for the truth about such teachings. Ask questions where you don't understand. The op has done this, and I believe he will find satisfying answers. (Matthew 7:7).

I will not reply any more mentions cos I believe I have made enough points for any open minded observer to weigh and reach conclusions. Lemme enjoy other sections in Nairaland


Peace!

vfactor:
First of all. I am not afraid of mentioning the bible. Probably you ve not been reading my comments. To describe the bible as ridiculous means u ve never read it cover to cover. Just what you heard in Sunday school while young!

Of all the questions you raised, I will only respond to No. 3. And I am responding cos of other readers of these thread who may be open minded enough to weigh matter from both side. And unfortunately I am going to use the 'ancient ridiculous Jewish book' - this time profusely!

First, let's consider the implication of God foreknowing every event in human history. That would mean that before God even started to create, all the events in this world - every good deeds, atrocities, suicide bombings, atom bomb on Hiroshima and both world wars - have all existed in God's mind because of his ability to foreknow event. Yet he still went ahead to create man! Now what would be his aim? In your own words, what is he trying to prove? That means that God would be the source of all sufferings for the fact that he knew what would happen and still went ahead to do so. Does that sound reasonable? Would the maker of common sense and the giver of it, not have an abundance of it?

The bible in Deuteronomy 6:5 asked people to love God with all our heart. How is it possible to love God when you know he initiated the suffering on earth by creating man, when he know man would fail?

When I made the statement that God exercises his power of foreknowledge selectively, people thought I was just making baseless assertions. Well consider these few biblical examples:

When God was about to destroy the people in Noah's day, the bible referred to God as feeling regret that he had made man. (Genesis 6:5,6). Now why would God feel regret for something he already knew would happen?

Another example: before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah, God had a conversation with Abraham, by means of his angel. I quote:

Genesis 18:20,21 KJV.

Now why would God need to investigate what was happening in Sodom and Gomorah before knowing?

There re other examples of Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:5-, The test of Abraham (Genesis 22:11, 12), to name but a few which further proves God's selective foreknowledge.

God does use his power of foreknowledge. He uses this power when he wishes. In prophecies. In the case of Adam he had no need to. According to Genesis 1:26, God saw that all his work were very good. He knows that nothing that could happen that could prevent him from accomplishing his purpose for the earth and man. Even when things eventually turned for bad, he used his power of foreknowledge to prophesy of a "seed" that would break the works of the devil. (Gen. 3:15).

Really, saying that God does not selectively use his power of foreknowledge would not only be ignoring scriptural evidences, but also limit to God to our own standard of how a creator should be. With Him all things are possible - including the ability to selectively choose what he wishes to foreknow or not.

You may, dismiss all the above as mere folklores of ancient Jews. But doing so without properly examining the bible thoroughly would be ridiculous. I urged you to examine the bible with regards to: historical data, scientific subjects, prophecies and principles for living. Many reputable men, whom you wouldn't call ordinary and shallow thinkers have done these and have seen that the bible is really unique, albeit great misunderstood!

And to all Christians, I urge you to study your bible. Question what you have been taught from childhood and search the scriptures for the truth about such teachings. Ask questions where you don't understand. The op has done this, and I believe he will find satisfying answers. (Matthew 7:7).

I will not reply any more mentions cos I believe I have made enough points for any open minded observer to weigh and reach conclusions. Lemme enjoy other sections in Nairaland


Peace!

So basically your version of God is not a stickler for details, right?

vfactor:
Naa! I am giving my final reply this evening. He raised some questions I need to answer

Patiently waiting

stillreal:
Patiently waiting

I have replied!