trapQ:
the fear of Putin

LordVarys:
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Saturday expressed regret over Turkey’s downing of a Russian jet, saying his country “wished it hadn’t happened,” ABC News is reporting.

Erdogan’s comments to supporters in Balikesir are the first public expression of regret since Turkish jets on Tuesday shot down the Russian warplane, claiming the plane was flying in Turkish airspace.

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"We are truly saddened by this incident," Erdogan said. "We wish it hadn't happened as such, but unfortunately such a thing has happened. I hope that something like this doesn't occur again."
Erdogan on Saturday said neither country should allow the incident to escalate, leading to “saddening consequences.” He went on to call for a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a climate conference in Paris this week.

Erdogan continued to defend Turkey’s actions as well as criticize Russia’s actions in Syria.

"If we allow our sovereign rights to be violated ... then the territory would no longer be our territory," Erdogan said.

Putin has called Turkey’s actions a “treacherous stab in the back” and maintained that the downed plane was flying over Syrian airspace, not Turkish.

Putin's foreign affairs adviser, Yuri Ushakov, said Friday that the Kremlin has refused multiple offers from Erdogan to meet because "we have seen that the Turkish side hasn't been ready to offer an elementary apology over the plane incident."

The incident comes as Russian-Turkish tensions are at a low point over the four-year civil war in Syria, where Syria's backers, Russia and Iran, have clashed with the U.S.-led international coalition against ISIS.

It has also raised concerns for the Obama administration, particularly over how the U.S. should respond if Russia retaliates against Turkey, a NATO ally.

Speaking with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov earlier this week, Secretary of State John Kerry "stressed the need for both sides not to allow this incident to escalate tensions between their two countries or in Syria," and "underscored the importance of progress toward a diplomatic solution in Syria continuing unabated."

Russia is preparing a broad swath of economic sanctions against Turkey and has restricted tourist travel into the nation in response to the plane’s downing.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/261413-turkish-president-sorry-russian-jet-was-downed

carnegiefan:
I don't like Russians mainly because they lie a lot. I hate lairs with a passion.
Having said that, Turkey is being irresponsible by its actions in Syria.
Just out of curiosity I researched conventional military of both Russia and Turkey and confirmed what I thought.

Amormed fighting vehicles:
Russia: 31,298
Turkey:7,550

Main Battle Tanks:
Russia: 15,398
Turkey:3,778

Self propelled guns:
Russia: 5,972
Turkey: 1,013

Towed artillery:
Russia: 4,625
Turkey:697

Rocket Launching systems:
Russia: 3,793
Turkey: 811

]Fighters/Interceptors:
Russia: 769
Turkey:223

Attack Aircrafts:
Russia: 1,305
Turkey:223

Attack Helicopters:
Russia: 462
Turkey: 59

Naval:
Submarines:
Russia: 55
Turkey:13

Total vessels:
Russia: 352
Turkey: 115


Available manpower for military:
Russia:69,117,271
Turkey:41,637,773


Nukes apart, Russia can walk all over Turkey militarily, and very easily.
That beggars the question: WHY did Turkey do this, bearing in mind that Turkey violates Syrian airspace almost daily?
Only one answer is reasonable: Turkey wanted to cause a war between Russia and NATO.
A war between Russia and NATO is a NUCLEAR war.

So, WHY did Turkey do this?

I now understand why Germany pulled its Patriot Missile batteries from Turkey.
German is a FIRST WORLD country and won't play stu.pid games with NATO assets.
Turkey is a THIRD WORLD country with a dictator president, who thinks he is a god.
Also Turkey is an Islamic state.
Why is an Islamic country which was rejected membership of the EU still in NATO?
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO before it is too late.

My 2 cents is that Putin wants other NATO members to kick Turkey out (or at the very least divide NATO); that is why he has not responded militarily...yet.

All peace lovers on this earth should pray for peace.

DerideGull:



Per the bolded in colors, Russia will not even think of engaging Turkey in a military show down because of Turkey's affiliation with NATO.

DerideGull:



Per the bolded in colors, Russia will not even think of engaging Turkey in a military show down because of Turkey's affiliation with NATO.

Reyginus:
I bet the guy you quoted will throw facts away when you show him America will annihilate Russia using his method of warfare.

carnegiefan:


Duh
But that is THE point.
What if Putin is like Kim Jon Un of North Korea who is not a rational actor?
What if there is a coup in Russia, and some hot head takes over?
Do you think Russians are happy with what happened?
Why is South Korea not provoking the North as Turkey is doing to Syria and Russia?
Turkey should not be in NATO, else, a nuclear war is almost certain to happen soon.

carnegiefan:


No American would want his country involved in a nuclear war with Russia.
Only outsiders wish that on America.

carnegiefan:
I don't like Russians mainly because they lie a lot. I hate lairs with a passion.
Having said that, Turkey is being irresponsible by its actions in Syria.
Just out of curiosity I researched conventional military of both Russia and Turkey and confirmed what I thought.

Amormed fighting vehicles:
Russia: 31,298
Turkey:7,550

Main Battle Tanks:
Russia: 15,398
Turkey:3,778

Self propelled guns:
Russia: 5,972
Turkey: 1,013

Towed artillery:
Russia: 4,625
Turkey:697

Rocket Launching systems:
Russia: 3,793
Turkey: 811

]Fighters/Interceptors:
Russia: 769
Turkey:223

Attack Aircrafts:
Russia: 1,305
Turkey:223

Attack Helicopters:
Russia: 462
Turkey: 59

Naval:
Submarines:
Russia: 55
Turkey:13

Total vessels:
Russia: 352
Turkey: 115


Available manpower for military:
Russia:69,117,271
Turkey:41,637,773


Nukes apart, Russia can walk all over Turkey militarily, and very easily.
That beggars the question: WHY did Turkey do this, bearing in mind that Turkey violates Syrian airspace almost daily?
Only one answer is reasonable: Turkey wanted to cause a war between Russia and NATO.
A war between Russia and NATO is a NUCLEAR war.

So, WHY did Turkey do this?

I now understand why Germany pulled its Patriot Missile batteries from Turkey.
German is a FIRST WORLD country and won't play stu.pid games with NATO assets.
Turkey is a THIRD WORLD country with a dictator president, who thinks he is a god.
Also Turkey is an Islamic state.
Why is an Islamic country which was rejected membership of the EU still in NATO?
Turkey should be kicked out of NATO before it is too late.

My 2 cents is that Putin wants other NATO members to kick Turkey out (or at the very least divide NATO); that is why he has not responded militarily...yet.

All peace lovers on this earth should pray for peace.

Reyginus:
It is both ways too. No Russian will like his country to engage in any war. Only outsiders do that.

OBAGADAFFI:


You probably forgot Turkey got Nukes controlled by NATO.

NATO can never kick Turkey out.

carnegiefan:


Duh
But that is THE point.
What if Putin is like Kim Jon Un of North Korea who is not a rational actor?
What if there is a coup in Russia, and some hot head takes over?
Do you think Russians are happy with what happened?
Why is South Korea not provoking the North as Turkey is doing to Syria and Russia?
Turkey should not be in NATO, else, a nuclear war is almost certain to happen soon.

carnegiefan:

Are you a Russian?

carnegiefan:


Do they have 8500 nukes?

carnegiefan:


No American would want his country involved in a nuclear war with Russia.
Only outsiders wish that on America.

DerideGull:


Per the bolded, the dude has never done anything irrational militarily that could draw the wrath of superpowers such as USA and Russia. He is regarded as a hungry man within the military circles.

DerideGull:



All Americans do make decision to fight or not to fight. Same thing goes for Russians. The last dream that will appear in any Russian sleep is to engage in nuclear war with USA.

carnegiefan:


No, he is an irrational actor.
Everybody is avoiding him because of that.
He has about 10 nukes, but is irrational.
Russia is not like that because it is a European country.
Before anyone mistake me, I'm not defending Russia, I'm defending peace, common sense, and continued existence of God's earth.
That's all.

carnegiefan:


No American would want his country involved in a nuclear war with Russia.
Only outsiders wish that on America.

carnegiefan:


Turkey should simply be kicked out of NATO.
Germany and others are uncomfortable with having that country in NATO.
This incidence with only add to that argument.

DerideGull:


He shouted about the recent military joint exercise in Korean peninsula between South Korea and USA. When he saw real armada off his coast and demonstration of laser weaponry mounted on one of the USA destroyers, he never sent a tug boat talk less frigate into the Korean peninsula.

Obiagu1:


The funny thing is that when Russia finally retaliates, NATO will not come to Turkey aid.

Turkey downed the plane for a purpose but their strategy is not going to work. You shoot down a Russian bomber, ran to NATO to complain but NATO tactically are backing off leaving Turkey to their fate.

NATO alliance comes to play only when a member is attacked but that's not the case here.
Turkey are on their own.

Obiagu1:


The North have always harrassed the South and will continue doing so.
There's nothing the US or the South will do.
You don't play game with a mad man with a nuke even if it's just ONE!

DerideGull:


Both North and South Korea seem to harass each other in the Korean peninsula. It was not long ago South sunk a North Korean patrol boat. The North has done same to South at any given opportunity. But one thing the dude in North will not dream of doing is to attempt to change the posture in the DMZ.

DerideGull:


Germany is lightweight in NATO. Turkey did not partook in the shot down of Su-24 alone. You should bear in mind that the fighter that downed the Russian bomber was F-16 fighter jet. The shoot down was simply an ominous message to Russia to thread carefully in its air war in Syria

Obiagu1:
Turkey will eventually apologize.

I still don't know why Turkey is in NATO.