₦airaland Forum

Spy360:
You could have easily said Pep is his real biological father. I was told you are a serial liar. Now I know.

Nobody, absolutely nobody can lay claim on the phenomenon called Lionel Messi.

You do not need to lie to make a point.

raumdeuter:
So you never smoke igbo sef? Na wa o. One of my students in Bauchi came to bribe with weed because he was the supplier for the whole town

So for Ife what do you do sef? You dont go to cricket pitch to smoke igbo, you no dey go SUB? what of new buka?

You don touch woman before? I mean real touch no be using elbow for inside Danfo to tap current? you dey go Moz? abi ma you left palm you dey use?

hariorh:
True. Messi played at the U-20 world cup in 2005. We saw the first glimpses of "Maradona" in him under the man in the image below who was the barca coach at the time.

raumdeuter:
What was Messi's output before Pep. While he was under Rijkaard. How many goals was he scoring per season

hariorh:
He was a teenager then still being monitored and coming on as a sub in some games. Barca was the best team in Europe at the time without Messi.

raumdeuter:
What was Messi's output before Pep. While he was under Rijkaard. How many goals was he scoring per season

SIRcumalot:
He was third in ballon d'or voting twice before pep came nobody else in barca made top 3
The best player in barca was clear.

raumdeuter:
What made Messi goal output jump from 17 in 07/08 to 38 in 08/09, 47 in 09/10, 53 in 10/11 and 73 in 11/12

His highest goal tally in a season was under Pep

Nihilist:
Another smackdown delivered...

I don't know how Pep can take credit for Messi's natural freakish talent. Why hasn't he turned Alaba into a top goalscorer at Bayern.

Enrique equalled his achievement at Barca on his first attempt...and his previous history shows that he was an average coach at best Pre-Barca.

hariorh:
Messi is a rare footballer seen once a lifetime. His development started under Rijkaard as a winger before Pep took over. Even pep began using Messi as a winger to continue his development before he later moved him gradually as a false 9. All Pep had to do was start him and watch him bloom into a phenomenon. Even my great-grandma would sit down and watch him develop his skills as he grew in age. Pep did nothing special.

Signed in 2005 by Rijkaard - Age 18

(how many young players bang in 38 goals as teenagers in their senior teams?)

Bloomed under Pep - from Age 21

Highest goals scored at Age 26 (roughly time for a striker to begin their peak)


I see nothing special pep did than be privileged to manage a legend. Messi would be messi under any other coach (except maybe Mou)

raumdeuter:
AT your age you still dey drink maltina, gerroutahia.

Nihilist started smoking weed at 8 and Ibime at 6. You are over 20 and still drinking Maltina? BTW did you see Father Xmas this yr or is that your friend bigkesh?

Where you are serving is it a boys only school or mixed?
which state is it? Let me teach you some maganna banza I learnt during NYSC

raumdeuter:
Messi wouldnt have been Messi under just any coach. There is a reason why Messi isnt even Messi in Argentina even at his peak

It takes a special playing pattern to make Messi be Messi. At at 2009. Having a 5ft8 striker was rare. Players of Messis build and speed were often used on the wings believing the y cannot thrive between giant central defenders

Pep changed the way Barcelona played, Got rid of all hindrance to Messi in the center of the field and Messi became the goal scoring machine he is

If another coach had left Messi on the wings like most would have. He would never be able to score 40-50-70 goals per season.

Its like saying Ronaldo would have become the great player he is even without Ferguson

hariorh:
Argentina do not play the same pattern of football that barca plays. They also don't play matches week in, week out. And the teammates at Argentina are different from his team at Barca.

Pep began work like Rijkaard did by starting Messi on the wings. Through his development he saw his potential and gave him freedom to roam through as a false 9 while having pass machines like Xavi and Iniesta feed him with great assists. (what is special in this na)

Ronaldo had his best years as a single player at Madrid. Was Ferguson coaching Madrid there? Ronaldo built himself up to the level he is through hardwork and not because of any miracle-working coach

hariorh:
Argentina do not play the same pattern of football that barca plays. They also don't play matches week in, week out. And the teammates at Argentina are different from his team at Barca.

Pep began work like Rijkaard did by starting Messi on the wings. Through his development he saw his potential and gave him freedom to roam through as a false 9 while having pass machines like Xavi and Iniesta feed him with great assists. (what is special in this na)

Ronaldo had his best years as a single player at Madrid. Was Ferguson coaching Madrid there? Ronaldo built himself up to the level he is through hardwork and not because of any miracle-working coach

hariorh:
Argentina do not play the same pattern of football that barca plays. They also don't play matches week in, week out. And the teammates at Argentina are different from his team at Barca.

Pep began work like Rijkaard did by starting Messi on the wings. Through his development he saw his potential and gave him freedom to roam through as a false 9 while having pass machines like Xavi and Iniesta feed him with great assists. (what is special in this na)

Ronaldo had his best years as a single player at Madrid. Was Ferguson coaching Madrid there? Ronaldo built himself up to the level he is through hardwork and not because of any miracle-working coach

raumdeuter:
So you are alluding that the pattern which Messi is played in matters to his output? which is why you asked "Argentina do not play the same pattern of football that barca plays". If thats so. messis greatest output has been under Pep's tactics and pattern.

You asked whats special? Those pass machines Xavi and Iniesta got the best out of the system because Pep created the system. Rijkaard was about sending Xavi out because he said Xavi was too small, Pep came made Xavi his midfield general and gave Messi his attacking license to a false 9. You see that and claim it is not special?

Ronaldo was already unleashed at Man Utd. He scored over 40goals at Man Utd under fergie and won his first ballon D or under Ferguson. Ferguson was the one who discovered Ronaldo can do more than being a fancy footwork trickster. Made him the focal point of attack and got 40plus goals out of him.

I can say there wouldnt have been the Ronaldo we know today if there was no Ferguson who moulded him

Eruditor:
Fergie made CR7 who he is. Pep did same for Messi. End of.

Debroslink:

I disagree the fact that Fergie made Ronaldo. Ronaldo became better after he left Fergie. Why? It's because Messi made Ronaldo

Debroslink:

I disagree the fact that Fergie made Ronaldo. Ronaldo became better after he left Fergie. Why? It's because Messi made Ronaldo

raumdeuter:
Fergie already set Ronaldo on the path to greatness
Ronaldo won Ballon D or with Fergie, He scored 42 goals with fergie.
Without Fergie Ronaldo would be no different from a talented winger and trickster whose joy would be in the number of people he dribbled

raumdeuter:
I can see that thegoodjoe nateevs and eruditor are setting the record straight already

Some people think a coach doesnt influence your play and what you achieve? I can bet that Mikel would have been a better player under a different coach

TheGoodJoe:

You are a mind reader. It is the same argument I just had the other day. Mikel was a Man utd fan, trained at Old Trafford and Ferguson saw his brilliance.

The midfield was free for him and with Ferguson's guidance, we would have had another Scholes. I am still hunting for Nigeria vs Argentina 2005 finals. Mikel was pure class.

He did not have someone to guide and nurture him. That is a big part of great players.

Henry flopped at Juventus. Under Arsene Wenger, he became one of the best of all time.

It takes more than talent.

Debroslink:
He scored 42 goals, and it dropped to 18 league goals before joining Madrid shows that he lacked motivation. His rivalry with Messi has however not diminished for the past 6 years or so, and if he scores 42 goals this season, it would be regarded as a failure.

I still insist that Messi made Ronaldo a better player;not Fergie.

raumdeuter:
harior, spy360, debroslink

Did Wenger make Henry the player he is? Or was he destined for greatness regardless

Debroslink:

I disagree the fact that Fergie made Ronaldo. Ronaldo became better after he left Fergie. Why? It's because Messi made Ronaldo

Debroslink:
I have no problem with coaches making players. Wenger made Igwe, just like Pep made Messi.

But do you honestly think Ronaldo would have 3 ballon d'or if he had stayed @ United?

I still insist that Messi made Ronaldo a better player.

Pataki:
There are two sides to this argument here. I would not say Fergie made Ronaldo, and neither do I believe Pep moulded Messi into what he is. Pep played a role, but Messi already had it in him. Messi could have easily flourished under exceptional managers like Fergie, Wenger, etc.

Who moulded Luis Suarez - Marco van Basten?

Eruditor:
Rio Ferdinand in his autobiography said when United got CR7 2003 and Rooney 2004, himself and Scholes felt Rooney was better based on what they saw during trainings.

CR7 had talent but he read the game poorly: dribbled when he was to pass, couldn't head a ball to save his life. Was skinny and his goal scoring was abysmal.

Nothing about CR7 showed that he will be a prolific goal scorer. A great winger, yes, but not one of the best players to ever grace the game. That's where Fergie helped him.

Every other thing you saw of CR7 post-United, is as a result of having better players to help him in a "less competitive" league. The hardwork had been done by Fergie and even Mou said it on arriving at RM.