₦airaland Forum

Debroslink:
I am not undermining the contribution of Ferguson's work in Ronaldo's career. But I'd like you to know that even when Ronaldo scored 42 goals that season in United, it's because a young Messi had started breathing down his neck. Barca were trophy-less that season, but Messi was ballon d'or 2nd best that season.

We all mentioned Henry and Wenger. Henry spent his best years with Arsenal, but Ronaldo has spent his best years without Ferguson, but with Messi, who had brought out the best in him after Ferguson's Era.

Wenger made Henry a better player, but Messi made Ronaldo a better player too.

raumdeuter:
Did Wenger mould/make Henry into the player he became?

Debroslink:
I am not undermining the contribution of Ferguson's work in Ronaldo's career. But I'd like you to know that even when Ronaldo scored 42 goals that season in United, it's because a young Messi had started breathing down his neck. Barca were trophy-less that season, but Messi was ballon d'or 2nd best that season.

We all mentioned Henry and Wenger. Henry spent his best years with Arsenal, but Ronaldo has spent his best years without Ferguson, but with Messi, who had brought out the best in him after Ferguson's Era.

Wenger made Henry a better player, but Messi made Ronaldo a better player too.

raumdeuter:
Ronald without Ferguson would never even aspire to be the world best he would be content with nutmegging players and making people laugh

Just like what Quaresma is

Ferguson brought out the competitor in him.

Before Ronaldo had no problem with Rooney being better or just contributing to the team, Ferguson brought out the competitive nature in him where he could see himself as better than kaka, Dinho or Messi

Pataki:
If you look at trajectory of Henry, it is clear that Wenger shaped Henry into one of the all best. Abinibi yato si ability. Messi is natural abinibi that Pep could see where he is most suitable to play and be his natural best. But that Pep moulded him - no way!

Did Wenger mould Bergkamp?

Who moulded Luis Suarez?

Debroslink:
Ronaldo was already feuding with Messi while @ United. Why did Ferguson fail to bring out that competitor in Rooney? Barca was trophy less, yet the gifts of Messi stood out.

How come Ronaldo went from scoring 42 goals to a mere 18 league goals under the same Ferguson?

How come Ronaldo became a better player after leaving Ferguson?

Why has Ronaldo maintained 50+ goals every season for the past 5 seasons?

Only one answer comes to mind... Messi

Pataki:
If you look at trajectory of Henry, it is clear that Wenger shaped Henry into one of the all best. Abinibi yato si ability. Messi is natural abinibi that Pep could see where he is most suitable to play and be his natural best. But that Pep moulded him - no way!

Did Wenger mould Bergkamp?

Who moulded Luis Suarez?

raumdeuter:
As at the time Ronaldo was winning Ballon D or in United, Messis career wasnt even that clearly defined. Ronaldo became a beast and Messi was still a very talented player who had a high ceiling

When Ronaldo was scoring 42 goals, messi barely scored 16. So you think Messi's 16 goals was what pushed Ronaldo to score not 20, not 30 but 42 goals??

Debroslink:
And where the hell was Ferguson when his output dropped from 42 to 26? That about 40% reduction. That 42 goals was a one off. However, he has be scoring 50goals plus in the last 5 seasons all because of his feud with Messi.

What Ferguson triggered once, Messi has been doing so for the past 5 years or more.

raumdeuter:
Assuming Messi retired 2 seasons ago? Would Ronaldo stop scoring 50+ goals?

Debroslink:

Assuming Messi retired 5 seasons ago, would Ronaldo score 50+ goals consecutively for 5 years?

Debroslink:
And where the hell was Ferguson when his output dropped from 42 to 26? That about 40% reduction. That 42 goals was a one off. However, he has be scoring 50goals plus in the last 5 seasons all because of his feud with Messi.

What Ferguson triggered once, Messi has been doing so for the past 5 years or more.

raumdeuter:
Before Ronaldo, How many players have scored 42 goals in a season?

Would Fergies influence suddenly leave Ronaldo once he parted ways?

E.g you teach a dog to bite and fight then you are asking how come he is still biting and fighting after you parted ways with him?

Or the man who groomed Mike Tyson's talent when he died Tyson still went on to win trophies? Would you be expecting Tyson to lose what he learnt?

Or the teacher who taught you multiplication table has left you, how come you still know Maths and multiplication table.

What Fergie triggered in him is what is still driving him till today. The competitive spirit. Ronaldo would chase anyone ahead of him because his aim is to be the best

Assuming Messi retired 2 seasons ago? Would Ronaldo stop scoring 50+ goals?

raumdeuter:
See these Arsenal fans o. Wenger shaped Henry but Pep didnt shape Messi, Fergie didnt shape Ronaldo

Anyone can have natural ability. Natural ability doesnt make a player. Its a coach who would put him in the right environment to perform

So what did Wenger do to Henry that was different from what Pep did to Messi or Fergie to Ronaldo?

Henry was taken from a winger to the focal point of attack and it yielded results in him scoring more goals than ever.

How is this different from what Fergie and Pep did to Messi and Ronaldo?

Did Henry not have natural ability before? was Wenger the one who taught him how to run?

Bergkamp was already 3rd best player in the world before playing for wenger

TheGoodJoe:
Cus D'Amato. Papa Cus. The man that groomed Mike Tyson. Great man. Someone will come and say no, it was Hollyfield that pushed Tyson.

raumdeuter:
In Madrid I believe he would. There is no stopping Ronaldo.

His aim was to be the best whether its messi, Suarez neymar or Kaka. He just wants to beat them all

Ronaldo learnt how to head the ball, How to take shots, how to shoot freekicks he even bulked up massively, watched his diet.

he simply wanted to be the best at everything. even things Messi dont know how to do

Pataki:
Henry spent a large chunk of his playing career under Wenger who moulded him from just a mere winger into one of the Premier league's deadliest striker. Messi was already a sure banger right from his childhood days. He just needed the right coach who could identify players that will complement his skills which Pep was able to do. Pep did not mould Messi!

If you must know, Bergkamp was almost considering his career was over with Internazionale. He was even hated by the Italian press at that time. He signed for Arsenal under Bruce Rioh I think, and he was a flop. Only for Wenger to arrive and his football career arose again.

Debroslink:
The bold has said it all. He aims to be the best. So let's assume Suarez is the best, and he scores 30 goals every season, Ronaldo will love to score 35 or more right? So who motivates him to score 35 goals, Suarez or Ferguson?

Pataki:
Henry spent a large chunk of his playing career under Wenger who moulded him from just a mere winger into one of the Premier league's deadliest striker. Messi was already a sure banger right from his childhood days. He just needed the right coach who could identify players that will complement his skills which Pep was able to do. Pep did not mould Messi!

If you must know, Bergkamp was almost considering his career was over with Internazionale. He was even hated by the Italian press at that time. He signed for Arsenal under Bruce Rioh I think, and he was a flop. Only for Wenger to arrive and his football career arose again.

TheGoodJoe:
Messi is saying Pep Made him the player he is today. His team mates are saying the same thing and you are here arguing with Messi. What about changing his diet and making Messi sleep early?

What about Forlan who was a flop at Man Utd and became the best attacker in Europe under Pellegrini. We can not tell of Suarez much because of his development mostly took place in South America. At Ajax he was already a beast.

Dennis Bergkamp came from a family that played ball. I think Johan Cruyff was even a family friend when he was a boy. So he was nurtured.

Talent is not everything. Good managers make great talents great players.

Look at Hulk and Villas-Boas at Porto. Hulk had talent but Boas system transformed him into a beast.

Pataki:
You all keep saying Messi said Pep made him without any significant or reliable video or weblink to prove it. Messi was banging in goals even when he was a winger. Pep saw the potential in him and allowed to play as a false 9 with the right players to complement him. Pep did not mould Messi abeg.

Pataki:

You all keep saying Messi said Pep made him without any significant or reliable video or weblink to prove it. Messi was banging in goals even when he was a winger. Pep saw the potential in him and allowed to play as a false 9 with the right players to complement him. Pep did not mould Messi abeg.

TheGoodJoe:
[b]The summer of 2008 saw considerable change at the Catalan club. Pep Guardiola arrived as coach after a year with Barca B and a new project was born. On the pitch, Messi would be its leader. But with his injury record over the last few seasons, adjustments would be needed.

The first bold decision had been to dispense with the Brazilians: Deco and Ronaldinho were seen as problematic by the Barca hierarchy and it was feared their off-the-pitch partying would lead Messi astray. Under Frank Rijkaard, there had been a Brazilian clique at the club, but the two forwards - along with Edmilson, Thiago Motta, Julian Belletti and Sylvinho - had befriended their fellow South American. Messi was growing up fast - perhaps too fast.

With Deco and Ronaldinho out of the picture - and Sylvinho the only one of the Brazilians still left at the club, Messi was free from unwanted distractions. But he would have to change, too.

In his early years in Barcelona, Messi had taken comfort in Argentine food, savouring steaks at his favourite restaurant in the Catalan capital - Las Cuartetas. Visits were frequent and would involve a feast of both meat and sweets. Under Guardiola, that soon stopped. Leo had previously turned his nose up at vegetables and barely touched fish. Now, they formed part of his staple diet and, each morning, he would consume a special set of vitamins prepared and left for him in a small container at the club's training ground. Every player was handed a mixture of minerals to boost their very own needs. Nothing was being left to chance.

There would be no more late nights watching Argentine football, either, with Leo learning that sleep would speed up his recuperation and allow him to take his game to an even higher plane.

But there was still a concern that, at the tender age of 21, Messi could break down again. One more serious injury and his already fragile state may have suffered unnecessarily - not to mention his brittle body.

Guardiola therefore told Barca physio Juanjo Brau to watch Messi day and night. Brau shadowed Leo and the two have become inseparable, even sometimes seeing each other on their days off and travelling together when Messi plays for Argentina. In a new book, 'The Messi Mystery', authors Sebastian Fest and Alex Juillard explain his routine: "Before each training session, Leo trains with Brau, one on one, for 45 minutes and after each one he has another half-hour session.

http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/10/23/3468661/how-messi-went-from-injury-prone-teenager-to-bionic-man[/b]

raumdeuter:
So what did Wenger do for Henry that was different from what Pep did for messi

I took what you posted and changed the words from Henry to Messi/Ronaldo and it still sounds the same

"Messi/Ronaldo spent a large chunk of his playing career under Pep/Fergie who moulded him from just a mere winger into one of the World's deadliest striker"
Would anyone dispute the above statement

If anyone had said in 2006 that Messi/Ronaldo would be scoring 50 goals per season regularly most football watchers would have said its impossible for a winger to score that much

Pep made that possible

raumdeuter:
Messi was banging in 15-16 goals before Pep, under Pep he doubled it instantly the next season, tripled it the following. Before Pep left he was doing more than quadruple of his 15-16 goals before Pep

Pataki:
Was Messi a flop on the wings before Pep came? Was he not scoring goals? Henry was OK at Monaco as a mere winger, he was a huge flop at Juventus as a mere winger, arrived at Arsenal under Wenger's tutor and he became a world class striker. So I ask you again, was Messi ever a flop even when he played as a winger at Barcelona?

raumdeuter:
Ferguson instilled that in him that he is the best and can do better than everyone else, whether its Suarez, neymar, Kaka or Messi

Once its in a player, its difficult to take away from them

Pataki:
Suarez was banging in 22 goals in 31 games under Marco van Basten in Ajax. Under Martin Jol of the same Ajax, he banged in 35 goals in 33 games. Would you then say, Martin Jol moulded him?

Debroslink:
That's not true. Even Ronaldo has openly confessed that Messi inspired him for more success.
http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/cristiano-ronaldo-rivalry-between-lionel-messi-motivates-both-players-012015

http://www.scmp.com/sport/soccer/article/1876149/cristiano-ronaldo-messi-rivalry-keeps-me-inspired-theres-no-doubt-im

raumdeuter:
Bleep

Pataki:
Your weblink simply shows that Messi avoided societal distractions such as friends, watching too much football argentine matches, etc, had early sleep, improved his vitamins and minerals intake, just to improve his efficiency on the field. Is that what you term as Pep moulding Messi?

raumdeuter:
Messi simply because Messi was the best at the time. if messi had retied and another player was showing to be better than, Ronaldo would have made that new guy his reference point
in 2007 was it Messi that was inspiring him to score 42 goals when Messi himself was still scoring 15-16 goals?
This season Messi was out injured yet Ronaldo is already on 21 goals shey na Messi dey push am from sick bed?

TheGoodJoe:
http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/10/23/3468661/how-messi-went-from-injury-prone-teenager-to-bionic-man[/b]