₦airaland Forum

Gombs:
True... Some sow, and expect God to be a vending machine, they wait for a return on investment, and some hope on the money given and wait for the return. Some, then change their confessions.. some just do it because other is, they have no knowledge of what they are doing or why. Some, doesn't know how faith works.. so many reasons. That's why we teach and preach.


not entirely


i concur


You're veering off now. What do you mean by 'Preachers of Prosperity'?

Ok.

That's why we teach. Have you taken time to teach these?

Really! Did you just ask me this?

I mean, I'm here teaching, some are here trying to scatter... Imagine of those of us with knowledge of these things teach it so much so that we boot out the lies of the devil..

I agree. But you can only do so much.

like "God chose some people to be poor".

Please what exactly is you definition of the word "poor".

Ever wondered why the tithes debate kinda died of? The vehement attack on Pastors? If you've been on NL long enough, you'd know some of us put an end in the reasoning of some folks about these things...

Ok. Been here just a year and few couple months.

and we got personal messages of gratitude for it.

Just as those with a differing view may have gotten similar message of gratitude. It kinda works both ways.

And of course depending on the scriptures they came up with in defence of their position. Then they migth just be right.


From my own scriptural understanding tithing is not meant for a Christian. But if one decides to engage in it then he shouldn't be condenmed.......cos tithing is a scriptural principle though not necessarily designed for the Christian man.


But we are not talking about tithe here, so i rest may case.

divine timing and patience... Mind explaining more with scriptures.. the term "Divine Patience" and "Diving Timing"?

lolx,......dont mind me, just remove the word "divine" and maybe it will make a little sense.

Well i'm sure you don't have any problem with the word "patience". As it is an important virture for a Christian to possess in their walk of faith.

Then by timing, what i should have said should have been taking time to watch over your seed spiritaully and in a dutifull way.

Of course there are to sides to these, depending on how you are constituted in the spirit at the point in time you exercised this act of faith in giving. They are:

1. This has to do with that point in time when one embarks on a journey of faith, lets say in seed sowing or on healing and one feels this strong force field of faith within and act accordingly at that point in time, in sowing that seed of faith(maybe a car) or declaring that word of healing over the infirmity in question.


Then one gets this instant note of victory within, that one doesn't need to come again to pray or confess the word over the issue.

And of course in this type of faith engagement, the result is sure and certain as the leap in faith had being taken and there wouldn't be any need to spiritually watch over that faith project or act.


2. This second one in question is when you feel impelled within to sow a seed for something maybe finacial seed or be it healing over an infirmity, then after taken that first step in giving or declearing healing; one doesn't just stop there but get down to persevering prayer over that sickness and costantly declaring the word concerning the ailment until one get that note of victory.

And for giving one does similar thing as well by breaking up your fallow ground and nuturing that seed by watering it with confession of the word.

Let me stop here for now.

sonOfLucifer:
Jesus taught his followers that poverty isn't about material possessions. He spoke about building up treasures that do not perish and have no physical quantification e.g love. He constantly preached that LOVE is the utmost, and the POOR are those who show no mercy.

Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 'Blessed are you who ar
e hungry now, for you will be filled. 'Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.
Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.
Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

You got it wrong ...very wrong... as usual

Christians, today, believe the Holy Spirit is wiser than Jesus.

wrong

For them, true Christianity is incomplete without a large bank account.

wrong

So they'll bend and twist all Scriptures to support their greed and covetousness.

wrong

Thus, the religion that began in the name of Jesus has become a product.

wrong

Naturally, it demands marketing and so it comes in different flavors abi na ministries. Everyone is selling theirs. The bigger your church, the further your reach, , the closer you are to God.

wrong.


thanks for your time

Gombs:

No o... don't turn that scripture upside down. See the Message translation
Don’t drag your feet. Be like those who stay the course with committed faith and then get everything promised to them.

My bro. Choi!! How on earth did i turn that scripture upside down?

I thougth i only referenced that portion of scripture just to buttress my point on why we have to exercise faith and patience in our act of faith giving.

And all i did was to quote from the KJV version.
Then in countering me all you did is to come up with the Message version that has a different rendering of it though still very close.

And you call it turning the scripture upside down? Hmmm!!!

Well let me give you these trioka of translation and see what you call them.

AMPC - AMPLIFIED BIBLE, CLASSIC EDITION
In order that you may not grow disinterested and become [spiritual] sluggards, but immitators, behaving as do those who through faith [by leaning of the entire personality on God in Christ in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness] and by pratice of patience endurance and waiting are [now] inheriting the promise.

TLB - LIVING BIBLE.
Then, knowing what lies ahead for you, you wont become bored with being a Christian nor become spiritaully dull and indifferent, but you will be anxious to follow the example of those who receive all that God has promised them because of their strongh faith and patience.

OJB - ORTHODOX JEWISH BIBLE.
That not become Atzlanit(sluggard) but immitators of those who through Enumah and Zitzfleish(patience) inherit the Hartachot(promise).

but... It's the truth of God's word. No point tining down the truth... That's the devil's thought. How can i be one with Jesus, the heir of all things, a joint-heir, and hence impossible for me to be poor...and you still tell me to tone down that truth?

When i said we should tone down the way we present the message of prosperity i didn't mean that we should water down the truth of Gods word as far as that line of teaching goes.

But in tining down, i mean how it is being presented in many qauters in the body of Christ. It almost being touted like if you are a child of God then you must be rich and if you ever happen to be poor(according to their own porious estimation of what it means to be poor), then that is an anormally in your walk with God.

They make it look like once you give your life to Christ then wants and lack should be a bygone experience once and for all in your life.
They make it look like there should be an immediate turn around in fortunes in your life.

Whereas the opposite should actually be the case. They neglect to let you know that even your suffering of wanton lacks and needs also serves as a form of trial for you to use as a platform to negotiate a solid inter personal relationship with God.

Gombs tell me, how easy will it be for a newly born again Christian, from a very poor background, and without a higher education certificate, in country like Nigeria, to survive and quickly turn around his/her fortune in a couple years of giving their life to Christ.

Of course that is pretty not possible. The only exception being having the kind of Olajumoke the Agege bread seller kind of story.

Do you now see the reason behind the "God must pick my call kind of prayer point".
Because many of them pastors have made it look like once you give your life to Christ, then there should necessarily be an almost immediate turn around in your fortunes.

So my drift of toning it down is that is should be presented in a way that makes it clear to them young believers that though God has provided for their wealth and prosperity in Christ Jesus, they should seek for it in faith and patience and most importantly their salvation in Christ.

if you think it is a lie, provide scriptures... Jesus made his kids rich, therefore a Christian is not the one trying to be rich, but one who's discovering His inheritance. For goodness sakes He said " All things are yours". Should i tone that down too?

Same response as above.

I know better. Thank you sir... I write here, then get to prayer... for all those who'd read this and get a change in their thinking

Good.

... forget An2elect2 and company

Why? What are your reasons?



Finally, take good care.

Gombs:
the ignorant ones will always wallow in their ignorance... But, if they're taught, they'd know better...but if after being taught, and they reject knowledge, then fine.

However, if you've been taught right, you'll think right, and the result of that is, you'll talk right. Moreover, when you talk right, you'll act right. When you talk right and act right, your life will turn out right.

If you must be poor, let it be your Choice, not being poor by the influences and circumstances of the elements of this world.

Very correct sir.

An2elect2:
Are you minding the liar? He is a fal$e teacher, dont expect anything true from his lips.

Am i not a christian? Don't i know Christ? Only a fool will receive this crap as word of God

My sister, are you the one saying This? Standing with unbeliever calling your brother a false teacher? How is what he said false? Pls post scriptures so that we won't go astray.

vooks:
I'm married and a candidate for divorce btw.

It is well.

My point is to critique the health-wealth-happiness utopia peddled by Oyakhilome as being at a Christian's reach.

My brother it is higly obtainable.
All depends on your level of faith.
If the word of God has provided for it, then the question is, do you have the faith capacity to appropiate those promises?
Remember God is not a man that he should lie. If he said it then he meant it. And once you are able to reach out to him in faith concerning any of his word that touches on your health and prosperity. He graciously honors you with an answer.

If there is no poverty in Christ,

There is poverty in Christ, or else Jesus was eggregiously decieved when he said "the poor you shall always with you"
As result, by default, we will always have the poor in the Church.

there equally is no divorce in Him.

Who said there is no divorce in Christ?
Wherever did you get that teaching from? If it is from pastor Chris then he is wrong, as that would be very unscriptural for him to teach.And if you share same thougth, then you are wrong as well, i'll counsel you study your Bible properly on that issue.

But the peddler of no-poverty-in-Christ has a failed marriage!
Why did it fail, is it some principles he failed to practice or what?

Thats your own personal conclusion and judgement. What if in the eyes of God the opposite happens to be the case.
Assuming he did everything possible to sustain the marraige, but the partner just refused.

Nonsense, the point remains, both couples are to blame for a failed marriage just as they are responsible for a successful one.

Really? Is that how you think?
Like i said earlier, lets assume that one of the party did everything humanly possible to have the marriage salvaged, but the other would have non of that. Would you still insist on your position.

And to say it takes two to build and destroy a marriage, is highly axiomatic and may not necessary be truth.
Yes i agree that to build a marraige you must have the cooperation of both parties.
But to destroy one, all you need is for the other partner to decline rendering
him or herself usefull to the positive cause of that relationship.

So I've no idea why you really have to sink this low and besmirch Anita and paint Oyaks as a saint.

Pheeeww!!
My bro. I never did that. Go and reread my post with an open mind.
Yes i said pastor Chris did't sue for the divorce, but i can still remember i also said that rev. Anita also have a right to her decision.
And the only thing i know i condenmed was her taking the issue to court, that is unscriptural.


Mind you i have a little knowledge of the history of their divorce. And through out the whole saga, i never picthed my tent with any party,....finally i also believe there might be ligth at the end of the tunnel on this issue.

I'm not attacking the messenger, just illustrating his folly.
Poverty, wealth, health, illness, happiness,sadness are all INEVITABLE as long as we are in this tabernacle. The countless and expensive formulas developed to avoid these end up disappointing many. This is not to mean that we should not attempt to overcome, but rather we should not be escapist. Some Christians are no will die poor regardless of their faith, principles and attempts to escape it. Same with health.

Agreed.

I was discussing with a friend and I asked her why Christians get sick. She said it is in their power to rise above any sickness and to be disease free and they only fall sick because they allow themselves to. This thinking has no empirical proof nor scriptural basis. This is fantasy thinking.

I concur.

Sometimes it takes nothing but death to rouse these daydreamers out of their fantasies. That moment when you have to resort to medicine,

I beg to differ here. The problem with you here is that you are exalting your personal experience and those you are seeing around above the word of God.
My brother just so you know, i cannot die, it is impossican't! not until i have finished the work of ministry that the Lord has bestowed upon me.

I cannot die suddenly, nor by accident in whatever way or form, neithere by sickness.

My bro, i have not said one may not fall sick ooo!, but to think i'll now fall to drug for my healing? Taaaar! forget am.

Bro you must know that your own level of faith or those you see around shouldn't be used as a parameter to judge everybody. Faith is personal.

or bury a faithful believer who firmly believed they would be healed is the turning point.

Here it is not your own faith that is being called into question.

Little wonder all the most rabid Word of Faith purveyors succumb to sicknesses. Their medicine somewhat does not work on them

Not true. Go and read about Smith Wigglesworth.

nynbrada:
It is well.

The reason I said that is so that you may appreciate that I'm at a divorce risk as anybody else and I can't mock those whose marriages have failed

My brother it is higly obtainable.
All depends on your level of faith.
If the word of God has provided for it, then the question is, do you have the faith capacity to appropiate those promises?
Remember God is not a man that he should lie. If he said it then he meant it. And once you are able to reach out to him in faith concerning any of his word that touches on your health and prosperity. He graciously honors you with an answer.

Since you claim that the utopia is a reality, care to show me some objective evidence of the same?
Do Christians live longer, healthier and happier lives over non-Christians?
No amount of faith can wipe away totally the uncertainty that accompanies being clothed in flesh and blood

There is poverty in Christ, or else Jesus was eggregiously decieved when he said "the poor you shall always with you"
As result, by default, we will always have the poor in the Church.

Not just because Jesus said so, but because it is a fact of life

Who said there is no divorce in Christ?
Wherever did you get that teaching from? If it is from pastor Chris then he is wrong, as that would be very unscriptural for him to teach.And if you share same thougth, then you are wrong as well, i'll counsel you study your Bible properly on that issue.

Well, God hates divorce, so one would think he would cushion his servants from the vagaries of divorce. But lo and behold, He does not!
How much more sicknesses which He has nowhere indicated that He hates!

Thats your own personal conclusion and judgement. What if in the eyes of God the opposite happens to be the case.
Assuming he did everything possible to sustain the marraige, but the partner just refused.


Really? Is that how you think?
Like i said earlier, lets assume that one of the party did everything humanly possible to have the marriage salvaged, but the other would have non of that. Would you still insist on your position.

Because we would still blame God for giving his servant a woman hell bent on doing what He hates!
Either way, divorce is an indictment against this utopia

And to say it takes two to build and destroy a marriage, is highly axiomatic and may not necessary be truth.
Yes i agree that to build a marraige you must have the cooperation of both parties.
But to destroy one, all you need is for the other partner to decline rendering
him or herself usefull to the positive cause of that relationship.

True one can destroy the other, just as germs can get to your body and wreck God's perfection!
Question is, why does God let it happen to His servants?
If we blame humans for letting themselves sick and remaining sick, why can't we blame Oyakhilome for letting his marriage break?

Pheeeww!!
My bro. I never did that. Go and reread my post with an open mind.
Yes i said pastor Chris did't sue for the divorce, but i can still remember i also said that rev. Anita also have a right to her decision.
And the only thing i know i condenmed was her taking the issue to court, that is unscriptural.

One can cast away stubborn demons which want the exact opposite of what you want, what's the big deal with commanding the marriage to be healed inJesus' name?

Mind you i have a little knowledge of the history of their divorce. And through out the whole saga, i never picthed my tent with any party,....finally i also believe there might be ligth at the end of the tunnel on this issue.

And you need not have followed it for long nor sided with either, divorce is an indictment against the certainty and control Word of Faith purveyors pretend to have over circumstances

I beg to differ here. The problem with you here is that you are exalting your personal experience and those you are seeing around above the word of God.

That's the popular rejoinder every time you run into reality. Is it possible what you call 'word of God' is nothing than wishful thinking on your part?
It's well proven that people believe whatever they have purposed to believe. We all wish for long life, happiness, health......so naturally, we will overwork our imagination seeing these in the scriptures

My brother just so you know, i cannot die, it is impossican't! not until i have finished the work of ministry that the Lord has bestowed upon me.

I cannot die suddenly, nor by accident in whatever way or form, neithere by sickness.

Great claims or professions.
Peter vowed he would die with Christ.....Jesus instead prayed that his faith would withstand. I pray to live longer, I can't claim I will. In any case, how can I tell that you will not die suddenly or by sickness? Wait till you die so I come back and check against what you said?

I notice you include a clever way out of sudden death; your assignment. So those who die suddenly or by sickness are either ignorant of some truth or their assignment is finished!

You die suddenly and there is a ready excuse, you die anyway other than suddenly and you still have an excuse. Either way your claims can't be disproved!

My bro, i have not said one may not fall sick ooo!, but to think i'll now fall to drug for my healing? Taaaar! forget am.

Bro you must know that your own level of faith or those you see around shouldn't be used as a parameter to judge everybody. Faith is personal.

Very true. But faith does not ride present life of ALL uncertainties contrary to the wild claims of WOFers and PF purveyors.

Here it is not your own faith that is being called into question.


Not true. Go and read about Smith Wigglesworth.

I have read him. He was neither a WOFer nor a PG purveyor. WOFers and PGers succumb to the very things they spent their lives denying. The roots of WOF and PG are not Wigglesworth but New Thought movement

@nynbrada

You said "there's Poverty is Christ"?

Isn't that an aberration?...

Kindly explain 2 Corinthians 8:9 for me.


NB:
When Jesus said we'd always have the poor amongst us, He was referring to the fact that folks (even Christians) will still wallow in ignorance... Hence their poverty.


Did you read what I wrote about a church Jesus spoke to, He acknowledged their poverty and even said "though you're rich".

What did Jesus mean? Why didn't He change their poverty status.. But told them, they'd suffer more because the devil's after them?

Gombs:
@nynbrada

You said "there's Poverty is Christ"?

Isn't that an aberration?...

Kindly explain 2 Corinthians 8:9 for me.

If among others Jesus came to exorcise poverty from our midst, then He failed flat because there has never been any appreciable difference in material well being of Christians and non-Christians since Pentecost to date, nowhere....not even in the most rabidly confused believers of this nonsense such as CEC

NB:
When Jesus said we'd always have the poor amongst us, He was referring to the fact that folks (even Christians) will still wallow in ignorance... Hence their poverty.

Poverty is caused and sustained by ignorance?
No amount of information will ever rid the world and especially Christians of poverty and immunize them from it. Some believers will be poor, others won't, some heathens will be poor, others won't . Poverty is not terminal and men can and have risen above and out of it but there is no past of principles nor faith level that extinguishes poverty 100%....this false certainty is the utopia I'm talking of

Did you read what I wrote about a church Jesus spoke to, He acknowledged their poverty and even said "though you're rich".

What did Jesus mean? Why didn't He change their poverty status.. But told them, they'd suffer more because the devil's after them?

Poor materially, rich spiritually. Laodecia was rich materially, poor spiritually

vooks:
The reason I said that is so that you may appreciate that I'm at a divorce risk as anybody else and I can't mock those whose marriages have failed


Since you claim that the utopia is a reality, care to show me some objective evidence of the same?
Do Christians live longer, healthier and happier lives over non-Christians?
No amount of faith can wipe away totally the uncertainty that accompanies being clothed in flesh and blood


Not just because Jesus said so, but because it is a fact of life



Well, God hates divorce, so one would think he would cushion his servants from the vagaries of divorce. But lo and behold, He does not!
How much more sicknesses which He has nowhere indicated that He hates!


Because we would still blame God for giving his servant a woman hell bent on doing what He hates!
Either way, divorce is an indictment against this utopia


True one can destroy the other, just as germs can get to your body and wreck God's perfection!
Question is, why does God let it happen to His servants?
If we blame humans for letting themselves sick and remaining sick, why can't we blame Oyakhilome for letting his marriage break?


One can cast away stubborn demons which want the exact opposite of what you want, what's the big deal with commanding the marriage to be healed inJesus' name?



And you need not have followed it for long nor sided with either, divorce is an indictment against the certainty and control Word of Faith purveyors pretend to have over circumstances


That's the popular rejoinder every time you run into reality. Is it possible what you call 'word of God' is nothing than wishful thinking on your part?
It's well proven that people believe whatever they have purposed to believe. We all wish for long life, happiness, health......so naturally, we will overwork our imagination seeing these in the scriptures


Great claims or professions.
Peter vowed he would die with Christ.....Jesus instead prayed that his faith would withstand. I pray to live longer, I can't claim I will. In any case, how can I tell that you will not die suddenly or by sickness? Wait till you die so I come back and check against what you said?

I notice you include a clever way out of sudden death; your assignment. So those who die suddenly or by sickness are either ignorant of some truth or their assignment is finished!

You die suddenly and there is a ready excuse, you die anyway other than suddenly and you still have an excuse. Either way your claims can't be disproved!


Very true. But faith does not ride present life of ALL uncertainties contrary to the wild claims of WOFers and PF purveyors.


I have read him. He was neither a WOFer nor a PG purveyor. WOFers and PGers succumb to the very things they spent their lives denying. The roots of WOF and PG are not Wigglesworth but New Thought movement

Ok

Gombs:
@nynbrada

You said "there's Poverty is Christ"?

Isn't that an aberration?...

Kindly explain 2 Corinthians 8:9 for me.


NB:
When Jesus said we'd always have the poor amongst us, He was referring to the fact that folks (even Christians) will still wallow in ignorance... Hence their poverty.


Did you read what I wrote about a church Jesus spoke to, He acknowledged their poverty and even said "though you're rich".

What did Jesus mean? Why didn't He change their poverty status.. But told them, they'd suffer more because the devil's after them?

Ok

Gombs:
Yeah.. our economy is not of this world... Remember Isaac?Joseph?

What do you mean Isaac and Joseph and of which world is your economy?

stonemasonn:
What do you mean Isaac and Joseph and of which world is your economy?

They prospered during world economic crisis.. They got richer, because they played by a diffent set of rules.


my economy is of God's kingdom.

vooks:
Since you claim that the utopia is a reality,

First, i think i'm beginning to have a problem with your choice of word "UTOPIA", whoever told you that Wof/PG message on prosperity n divine health is centered around a state of utopia. Which simply means a state of perfect wellbieng as far as the issue of prosperity and health is concerned for the Christian man.

Then that simply means a Christian man/woman should never suffer lack? Then what happens to:
Phil 4:11 - Not that i speak in respect of want: for i have learned, in whatsover state i am, therewith to be content.

12 - I know both how to be abased, and i know how to abound: every where and in all things i am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound both to suffer need.

13 - I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me - KJV.

Then if he/she is to live in a state of utopia as far as health issues are concerned, then what happens to the plethora of scriptures that resonates with God bringing healing n cure for our infirmities.


I'm sure you do not want me to start mentioning those portion of scripture.

The problem i see here with you is that you seem to have gotten hold of the prosperity and divine healing message at the wrong end of it.

To set the record straigth for you, Wof/PG message is not about living in a state of utopia/perfectionism in our everyday struggles in life, but rather mustering strength by reaching out to God in faith through his word and using it to confront these challenges and triumphing in them.


Know this, if you fail in any of these challenges, that simply means you do not have the faith capacity to surmuont that challenge. What do you do next? You go and build more on your faith.

FAITH COMETH BY HEARING; HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

My brother, if you have failed in that faith project, it doesn't mean that God has failed, his word has failed, the principle of faith has failed. No! It only means you were confronted with a challenge that was bigger than your faith capacity.

And consequently, it doesn't now mean that you yourself is now a "A DISASTER MOVIE",as far the figth of faith is concerned. No, it only means one thing - it's time to get up, dust up yourself and go and feed, inject and bombard yourself with the word of God.

Feed and saturate yourself with the scripture like there is no tomorrow, listen n listen to those messages of faith concerning that situation.

Engage yourself in spiritual exercise by confession of the word of God over your life and situations.
Embark on a speaking in tongue marathon, maybe an hour of non stop speaking in tongue; for me when i'm in my element and on top of my game i can go 2-3 hrs non stop.

I tell you when you are through with this spiritual exercises, and happen to be confronted with similiar challenge, only one thing is sure that is VICTORY.

All i've done here is to try and disabuse/disorientate, your perceived mindset that prosperity and divine health message is all about a state of religious utopia.

Well i may not blame you completely for this mindset. It is possible you are only reacting this way due to the kind of Wof/PG purveyors you have come in contact with.

I want to assure you, that the prosperity/divine healing message is not about a state af utopia, but a situation where Gods children are taught n ecouraged 2 lay hold of the word of God n it use to confront the challenges of life and believe God for victory and success.

I'v listened to Kennet Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Oyedepo, and Creflo Dollar. And i'm not sure i've heard them trying to glorify a state of utopia.

Maybe, pastor Chris may preach it a little over the top, i personally do not have problem with him. As i'm matured enough to pick out the valuable part of his message and if there is any i can't seem to be able to correlate with the scripture, i simply discard.
And of course he still remains one of the most inspiring purveyour of the Wof/PG to me.

Also just so you know i personally do not reckon with the late Myles Monreo and his ilks whose names i can't even remember now, as a purveyour of Wof. To me he was nothing more than a religious motivational speaker.
So next time don't shove him up my face in your list of Wof ministers.

care to show me some objective evidence of the same?

My response above should do for now.

Do Christians live longer, healthier and happier lives over non-Christians?

What a Pooh-pooh! And honestly, you expect me to answer this. No pun intended.

No amount of faith can wipe away totally the uncertainty that accompanies being clothed in flesh and blood

You are wrong! As this position is highly subjective, and relative to individual level of growt and maturity in apprehension of the inconquerable life of glory that has been made available in Christ Jesus.

An2elect2:
That has been done severally on this forum but the dog will always return to its vomit I will not waste my time with the same people over and over again.

As for the poster i quoted i only sided with him based on his post on this thread. If at any time i see him speaking against the truth i'll do what is needed.

Lastly, Gombs is not my brother in the Lord. God forbid.

Even Jesus was a friend of 'sinners'

vooks:
Not just because Jesus said so, but because it is a fact of life

True. But his endorsing it with that statement, makes it practically impossible for any purveyor of prosperity to try and refute. They sure wont stand a dog chance if they do.

Well, God hates divorce,

That he hates divorce doesn't mean he disapproves of it. As they are horses of different color. If he did he will be the biggest confussionist of all time. And the Bible is clear that he is not the author of confussion. Hence, he made a provision for divorce and the scripture is clear on that.

Now let me explain why he hates divorce. There are two strings attached to it.

1. Because of the treacherous lifestyle of the men of old testament, due to the law of divorce. The law made it possible for a man to easely relieve his wife of her marital contractual aggrement to him, by simply issuing her a letter of divorce once he feels he no longer want her for whatever reason.
And this became a source of grieve for the affected wives and their heart pains and cry came before the LORD. Hence the injuction.

2. And for a very important spiritual consequence, he dislike it because he wants we humans and more importantly, those he has come into covenant with to raise a holy seed unto him.

In other words he doesn't cherish a situation where a man marries a woman, and after she has given birth to a child or children, the man now sends her away for no unjust cause. And she repeatedly suffer similar fate in the hand of several men.

He just doesn't like it when a woman goes around having baby for different men, it breeds a kind of unholy seed before the lord.

Pls study Malachi 2:13-16, for futher insight.

so one would think he would cushion his servants from the vagaries of divorce. But lo and behold, He does not!

Chooooiiiii vooks!!!!
Are you the one reasoning like this. These are what the Bible calls unlearned question. Choi! Passing the bucks of our own human inadaquencies at the table of the Father.

My brother, he has done everything that need to be done in that regard. The death and ressurection of Christ has perfected all that for us.
That is why he said in,
Col 3:5 - Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleaness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is adultery.

My bro, all he is saying is that you should deaden, kill and bring under subjection all these natural impulses that have been listed above. It is now your own responsibility to bring them about.
Christ death and ressurection have made available for you the capability to be able to do it. It is now left for you to leverage on it.

If it is about showing your spouse love, honouring her/him, the wife reverencing/respecting the man as her head, the man not lording it over her, the friuts of the Spirit, they are well documented in the scripture.

The problem here is identity problem. Not being able to see yourself the way God has structured you and is seeing you.
All you need do is to look into the perfect law of liberty(emancipation), and identify yourself as who God says you are.


How do you do this? Locate yourself in the word, medidate upon it and align to it accordingly.
The Bible says in,
2Cor 3:18 - But we all, with an open face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are changed into that same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

My bro, in a nutshell, as you look into the scripture to see who God says you are, as you continue to see yourself in that light, gradually you begin to change, transform, and metamorphous into that same image you see in the mirror(the scripture).

It is not a one day thing, not a micro wave experience. But surely, as you continue to look into that mirror(scripture), and continue to align yourself into who the Bibles say you are.
Before long, you will be completely changed into that same image(person), that you see in the mirror.
Glory be to God!

My bro, on this issue all i'll have to say is that "thereby hangs a tale".


Stay blessed.



I will see if i will have time to address the remaining issue you raised. The same goes to bro Gombs question on why i said there is poverty in Christ. It is obvious he failed to catch my drift.


Shallom.

Here's a guy talking about secret of eradicating poverty. Could his claim be true?
https://blupress.com/secretkeyofpsalms/p/18/poverty-antidote/