Excuzeme:


l saw the below in the picture of the Lekki Gardens.

Am l the only one that noticed that the Parapet was done at a stage, indicating that the building was to be roofed at that level but strangely, more floors were added ontop!

Could this be a contributing factor......... extending the building higher to make more money

Thats just a design, Im planning on putting it on mine as well when i get to the decking stage

abdulwastecx:


Structural collapse can be as result of factors unpredictable ( higher magnitude earthquake above the level allowed for during the design stage,) liquidification of the foundation, volcanic eruption etc.

Structural failure can also result from lack of proper understanding of soil property like bearing capacity, settlement rate, shear stress, soil classification etc.

It may also results from lack of proper analysis and design of structural members of the building

It may also result from poor construction techniques etc.

Structural failure can happen to any developer irrespective of been a professional or quack

Your last point here is what i really stressed in my post. Building collapse may be due to Natural disaster that is beyond engineering control, and as well as structural failure that may arise frombso many factors. I refused to put this blame on structural consultant because i have worked in one of the real estate development firm some years back, and i quit within six months because of my future career. Most of them don't have any engineering background and so they don't ha e any respect for engineering procedures and consultancy.

Lekki Garden Issues Press Release

http://lekkigardens.com/Lekki-Gardens-Press-Release-Official.pdf

In the news

Adelaja Adekanbi, vice chairman Nigerian Institute of Building (NIOB)

“Let them bring the engineer or builder that is involved in the construction. The first two building here, I was involved in it; I taught them what to do. They wanted to raise two floors and they did a piling of six metres for this kind of structure so the structural stability is failure and where we are standing, if you don’t know, was purely water two years ago.

“Imagine someone building on water and doing a piling of six metres for a seven-storeyed building. I recommend to Lagos state government that every building here painted or not, should be tested.

“This house we are looking at should also be pulled down in a week. If not, we are looking for another trouble. At this point, I recommend that every house here should be tested to ascertain the structural stability because I don’t think they are habitable.”

Let me just clarify

3 weeks ago, me and brabus agreed to speak and this was after he came off his high horse, I agreed a 50% settlement with him, as long as its paid within 1 month.

Few days later he sent me 50k, I didnt feel it was necessary to update the house after every kobo he paid, the plan was to chase up payment within 1 month and report back to the house that the matter was fully closed once I collect the 50% settlement.

Now as agreed with him, if he doesnt pay the remaining balance within 1 month, then thats promise broken and we are back to where we started.

@BRABUS, Now, what is it with making trouble ? Did you think that because you paid some part of my money fraudulently obtained by deception, did you think that would gagg me ? I can make constructive comments anytime anyday I like, taking some of my money back doesnt mean that you have any kind of leverage on me. Abeg, lets get that straight.

Secondly, you have been making a lot of noise about the Lekki Gardens story, and instead of the house learning from it, and calling out quack builders and praying for those who lost thier lives, you have been using it to collect STARS !! Like a kid in a china shop..

I think if you dont have any sensible comments in terms of what can be learnt or carry on to use the story as some form of advertising medium, you should just shut your trap and look for how you will pay my balance.

Excuzeme:


So afterall, Brabus can behave like a gentleman?

Hmmm... wetin we no go see for this 2016!

So, this man wey dey order Don Moen at will cant phuck-out just 400K in one go!

Anyway, that is by the way.

I like it when people "grow sense", it shows you are not the heady, "try-me-if-you-can" guy that l thought you were.

It is a commendable attitude, that you have negotiated with your creditor without much fuss.

But Maverick, you sef fall hand small sha! No word to the House, once money starts changing hands?
Not even by PM!

Anyway, lesson learned.

Since Brabus has taken steps to do the right thing, l think we should all give him a break.
Our (my own personal interest) is that he does the right thing.... which he has shown good faith to do.

I hereby revert back to "Normal Mode" as far as Brabus is concerned. No hard feelings.

Nor do so again. If you cant "guarantee it", dont be a middle-man of any sort.

abdulwastecx

You always talk a lot of sense as usual.
How about cases whereby structural drawing done, calculations done, everything done but yet the executors on the ground decide to do something different to spite the owner etc.

Speaking from experience, I once had a situation where even with the plans/everything what was requested was not what was done, and in that situation, I invited my architect to site, when builder saw architect he started having cold feet and said that I wanted to shift him out of the project by calling Architect to inspect site.

What do you do in a situation like that ?

abdulwastecx:


The problem is how many of the so called structural engineer understand structural analysis and design?

I am a civil engineering graduate that has been taught by PhD orders and registered engineers, most of which can not do simple manual structural analysis such as continues beams, folded plate, shear failure in slope, etc. Civil engineering/ structure involve lot of mathematics, if you don't understand maths no matter your degree and accreditation you may not understand the basis of design

The problem is most of the consultancy film uses softwares that they don't really know how they work or copy drawings without proper design etc.

Soil is very important, so how many project have a detail soil analysis?.
How competent are these analysis?
Are they carried out with the correct instruments and precautions?
How competent are the people carrying out these investigation etc?

Building construction is a complex trade that you keep learning everyday to be better and you try as much as possible to do something that will not kill you or kill other and may not land you in jail

Oga Excuzeme and the rest of the positive contributors in the house, make una no vex. I have explained earlier that i preferred if the case was fully settled before breaking news.

Also Excuzeme, I emailed u several times. Did you get my email ?

Excuzeme:


So afterall, Brabus can behave like a gentleman?

Hmmm... wetin we no go see for this 2016!

So, this man wey dey order Don Moen at will cant phuck-out just 400K in one go!

Anyway, that is by the way.

I like it when people "grow sense", it shows you are not the heady, "try-me-if-you-can" guy that l thought you were.

It is a commendable attitude, that you have negotiated with your creditor without much fuss.

But Maverick, you sef fall hand small sha! No word to the House, once money starts changing hands?
Not even by PM!

Anyway, lesson learned.

Since Brabus has taken steps to do the right thing, l think we should all give him a break.
Our (my own personal interest) is that he does the right thing.... which he has shown good faith to do.

I hereby revert back to "Normal Mode" as far as Brabus is concerned. No hard feelings.

Nor do so again. If you cant "guarantee it", dont be a middle-man of any sort.

brabus:
@ abdulwastecx, I just feel I should ask you this question. Who do you think is culpable in this issue?


I see a lot of people blame the builder, the engineer. I don't have anything against them. That's how much they understood about project management. They have little or no idea on how to handle complex structures. So it's fair to assume the builder is the man to blame just as the developer and Jack Baeur is blaming the engineer.
But the truth be told, MDUs/MTU projects is more than a one-man show or selling of spare parts. It's not a chicken coop project.

FYI, it's only the governor who approves construction of MTUs in Lagos state.

Your thought on this will be highly appreciated.

You better know the liability you carry as an engineer supervising a project. At the minimum, the license of the engineer supervising the project should be withdrawn.

Approval is conditional! Better read the fine prints.

Chekitaut:
Finally, I have to expose what makes us standout in the area of delivering services, base on Granite.

This is the 30tons loading, that have always keep us in business.

If is not looking like this is never 30tons.

Today at Ajao Estate, I ran into this crowd(LandLord Association meeting) watch my truck disxharging

Yepa, wonti gbami

brabus:
Question to ask your Structural Engineer?

What's the allowable bearing soil pressure?
What's the total live load?
What's the total dead load?
What's the assumed floor finishes load?
Columns, Brickwall, Beams, Roof materials
What's the assumed concentrated live loads?
What's the assumed distributed live loads?

This is where we get it all wrong. We do not have idea of what data our structural man used in computing the allowable imposed loads, yet we buy finishing materials based on our taste and not design requirement.

Next thing, you'll blame the builder. It's like blaming the Vulcaniser for overloading... how i fit talk am sef. Abeg use your church mind, decipher the thing jare.

This one no be packaging o! Just confront facts with figures.

Again, the client does NOT need to understand all this. The Structural engineer puts his SEAL and STAMP on the drawings and calculations. If he now supervises it and allow things that contravene the structural design he is held liable.

When things go wrong and the rule book is thrown at you, it is express road to jail!

Aventures:
Your last point here is what i really stressed in my post. Building collapse may be due to Natural disaster that is beyond engineering control, and as well as structural failure that may arise frombso many factors. I refused to put this blame on structural consultant because i have worked in one of the real estate development firm some years back, and i quit within six months because of my future career. Most of them don't have any engineering background and so they don't ha e any respect for engineering procedures and consultancy.

Which type of Natural Disaster? When there is a NATURAL DISASTER it will NOT be an ISOLATED case!

This is either a design issue or poor construction methods. Whatever it is, the engineer that designed/supervise the construction is liable. He has based on his professional judgement agree that the building is SAFE! Now that it is not SAFE he definitely has a case to answer.

I always try avoiding replying you Egun, but I think today i have a bit of your time.

I dont know how old you are, but I thought they said as one gets older you get wiser, I think for you that theory doesnt work. "Sbhebi bi OJO ORI Eni nse po si, Oo JE KOMA GBON SI" . As you dey old, you suppose dey wise up na ??

You brag here a lot about working in your hospital, how many corpses have you washed today ? I guess too much, you lack any form of common sense and I think you should just shut your mouth.

You come here Open yansh, foul the place, this whole place begin smell with the kind of rubbish that comes out of your head. Do you not think before you write ? Import padlock, import staircase, import glass, import bricks, import kokoye workers and i ask myself, all to come and work in a garage or a PRAM shed ??

Maybe that your retirement that you are planning at your hilly garage, you might not need it, I know the hussle @ the mortuary is hard, but tell your kids if you have any to put you in a CARE home, you need help.

I will not say any more, but i am expecting your reply and you will also get mine.

EgunMogaji:


Brabus, you can tell me to go pound sand and I'll understand but did you make this promise?

I thought you were suggesting that both you and your client to go and meet the approval guy at his office down the street from h2.

mavverick:
abdulwastecx

You always talk a lot of sense as usual.
How about cases whereby structural drawing done, calculations done, everything done but yet the executors on the ground decide to do something different to spite the owner etc.

Speaking from experience, I once had a situation where even with the plans/everything what was requested was not what was done, and in that situation, I invited my architect to site, when builder saw architect he started having cold feet and said that I wanted to shift him out of the project by calling Architect to inspect site.

What do you do in a situation like that ?

For a multi storey building, the requirement is for a structural engineer to supervise the construction (at least the structural aspect). That's why you have the fine print on your structural drawings exonerating the engineer from works not supervised by him. The Architects do the same thing!

IF no engineer was engaged to supervise the building then the client is liable.

Doing a project in my hometown.
The drawing was first of all produced by an experienced consultant architect who advised that the foundation and decking stages be supervised by a structural engr. who is also an experienced consultant. I paid dearly for each of his site visits but not with pain.
He traced all the rods one by one with a stick like an village headmaster to make sure that all meets specification and standard and doesn't care about any delay his meticulousness will cause.
My builder dreaded any of his site visits because after he visits , there will be more rods to be changed, or included, or even redone which means builder will spend extra on iron bender as labor was contracted to Builder.
My instruction was that: the structural Engr. gives final go ahead before any concrete is poured during Foundation & Decking.
On my own side i was happy and didn't mind, i'm still in contact with the elder statesman for a job well done.

Uberness:
Doing a project in my hometown.
The drawing was first of all produced by an experienced consultant architect who advised that the foundation and decking stages be supervised by a structural engr. who is also an experienced consultant. I paid dearly for each of his site visits but not with pain.
He traced all the rods one by one with a stick like an village headmaster to make sure that all meets specification and standard and doesn't care about any delay his meticulousness will cause.
My builder dreaded any of his site visits because after he visits , there will be more rods to be changed, or included, or even redone which means builder will spend extra on iron bender as labor was contracted to Builder.
My instruction was that: the structural Engr. gives final go ahead before any concrete is poured during Foundation & Decking.
On my own side i was happy and didn't mind, i'm still in contact with the elder statesman for a job well done.

Of course many will call you STUPID then! Wondering why you are wasting money and not allow baba Iyabo the bricklayer who has built many buildings to just take charge! It is when things go wrong that you start to appreciate the money you spent in having a 'competent' person supervise the work.

Many are only concerned about the 'fineness' of the building but NOT on the structural integrity.

Beulah09:


For a multi storey building, the requirement is for a structural engineer to supervise the construction (at least the structural aspect). That's why you have the fine print on your structural drawings exonerating the engineer from works not supervised by him. The Architects do the same thing!

IF no engineer was engaged to supervise the building then the client is liable.

You're absolutely right.

I wonder if this estate is personally financed or a building loan taken out.

The reason being that the banks usually like to protect their interest and could/would have enforced the precense of required professionals.

But then this is Nigeria.

Uberness:
Doing a project in my hometown.
The drawing was first of all produced by an experienced consultant architect who advised that the foundation and decking stages be supervised by a structural engr. who is also an experienced consultant. I paid dearly for each of his site visits but not with pain.
He traced all the rods one by one with a stick like an village headmaster to make sure that all meets specification and standard and doesn't care about any delay his meticulousness will cause.
My builder dreaded any of his site visits because after he visits , there will be more rods to be changed, or included, or even redone which means builder will spend extra on iron bender as labor was contracted to Builder.
My instruction was that: the structural Engr. gives final go ahead before any concrete is poured during Foundation & Decking.
On my own side i was happy and didn't mind, i'm still in contact with the elder statesman for a job well done.

This is how it's supposed to be done and I think how it was mostly done by the old timers.

If I was to buy an existing building in Nigeria it would be a much older one because of integrity.

mavverick:
abdulwastecx

You always talk a lot of sense as usual.
How about cases whereby structural drawing done, calculations done, everything done but yet the executors on the ground decide to do something different to spite the owner etc.

Speaking from experience, I once had a situation where even with the plans/everything what was requested was not what was done, and in that situation, I invited my architect to site, when builder saw architect he started having cold feet and said that I wanted to shift him out of the project by calling Architect to inspect site.

What do you do in a situation like that ?

That is a very important question sir. Heavy structural work should always a registered structural engineer (civil engineer) coming to site from milestone to milestone to check progress of work and making sure what was designed is followed properly.

EgunMogaji:


You're absolutely right.

I wonder if this estate is personally financed or a building loan taken out.

The reason being that the banks usually like to protect their interest and could/would have enforced the precense of required professionals.

But then this is Nigeria.

Someone is finally getting it.


I've done projects that are not up to this and the requirements na die. I'm on site, bank is on site, independent consultants of the client are on site. The bank went as far as bringing in their independent QS to vet the quote and also send in their pros to check each milestone completed before disbursing funds. The project is here on Nairaland and I can show you all the documents and even name the bank to let you know there are still people who do things right in Nigeria.

Now if a common 5 bedroom flat duplex could go that way, what's with a developer building multi-floors.

Is it that the banks are just all about disbursing money in this case because it's money talk or someone decides to cut corner.

Beyond the physical issues, there are so many reasons why such a development shouldn't fail. It's very interesting to read that the Vice Chairman of NIOB was also present at the site to supervise construction of the first 2 buildings and that's it. Hundred of units started coming out of grounds and no one, I repeat no agencies foretell the impending danger.

Had the building not collapsed, what will the relevant agencies have done? Nothing.

Mumus fooling zombies with the word pro since 1822.

Uberness:
Doing a project in my hometown.
The drawing was first of all produced by an experienced consultant architect who advised that the foundation and decking stages be supervised by a structural engr. who is also an experienced consultant. I paid dearly for each of his site visits but not with pain.
He traced all the rods one by one with a stick like an village headmaster to make sure that all meets specification and standard and doesn't care about any delay his meticulousness will cause.
My builder dreaded any of his site visits because after he visits , there will be more rods to be changed, or included, or even redone which means builder will spend extra on iron bender as labor was contracted to Builder.
My instruction was that: the structural Engr. gives final go ahead before any concrete is poured during Foundation & Decking.
On my own side i was happy and didn't mind, i'm still in contact with the elder statesman for a job well done.

An experienced architect should not do all the drawings ( structural drawings) should be left to people who understand it, people who has been certify to carried them out.
Electrical design for bigger building should be done by an electrical engineer.

Structural failure is a combination of so many factors that people who are not conversant with soil behavior and structural behavior may not understand.
Stability of structures depend on sound knowledge of soil engineering properties which can only be gotten through extensive and detail soil text. It also depends on good structural design done according to codes.

Beulah09:


Which type of Natural Disaster? When there is a NATURAL DISASTER it will NOT be an ISOLATED case!

This is either a design issue or poor construction methods. Whatever it is, the engineer that designed/supervise the construction is liable. He has based on his professional judgement agree that the building is SAFE! Now that it is not SAFE he definitely has a case to answer.

I will definitely agree with you sir. The failure is most likely due to any of those factors or the combination of those two factors.

I the construction were based on his designs, he is liable

Uberness:
Doing a project in my hometown.
The drawing was first of all produced by an experienced consultant architect who advised that the foundation and decking stages be supervised by a structural engr. who is also an experienced consultant. I paid dearly for each of his site visits but not with pain.
He traced all the rods one by one with a stick like an village headmaster to make sure that all meets specification and standard and doesn't care about any delay his meticulousness will cause.
My builder dreaded any of his site visits because after he visits , there will be more rods to be changed, or included, or even redone which means builder will spend extra on iron bender as labor was contracted to Builder.
My instruction was that: the structural Engr. gives final go ahead before any concrete is poured during Foundation & Decking.
On my own side i was happy and didn't mind, i'm still in contact with the elder statesman for a job well done.

This was exactly how we handled the construction of the 2 unit of detached duplexes that I built in 2012 and the 2 unit of detached duplexes that I built in 2014.

The builder was never allowed to double as the skipper and umpire. There were so many mechanism in place to double check.

In 2012, I worked with Mechanical Consultant, Electrical Consultant and Structural Consultant. Beside this, the estate Project Manager and the estate architect were always around to check critical nodes. Everything is there on the thread and the owners are not dead. They're also Nairalander.

They used real professional consultant and not dummies. I'm not afraid to share their contact and ask them about me.

In 2014, I worked with one of the biggest mortgage finance bank and we did a lot of back and forth before the project is officially released to us. All drawings, documents, estimates and bids were sent to the bank and we schedule a lot of site visit prior to construction.

I don't have to go far to back up my claims with fact. Just ask nicely for evidence. I'll give you.


But what do we have most, people who believe over N50m life investment is something you can just do anyhow. Fire and recruit workers at random neglecting the importance of using a pro.


Again, anyone (even Baba Mulika)can do the job provided that person is not doubling as a skipper and the umpire. The owner as the Chief Project Manager has the onus on him to do his due diligence and put mechanism in place to checkmate excesses.

Ire o!

Intelligent discussion in progress. Only few can decipher the hidden truth.

abdulwastecx:


An experienced architect should not do all the drawings ( structural drawings) should be left to people who understand it, people who has been certify to carried them out.
Electrical design for bigger building should be done by an electrical engineer.

Structural failure is a combination of so many factors that people who are not conversant with soil behavior and structural behavior may not understand.
Stability of structures depend on sound knowledge of soil engineering properties which can only be gotten through extensive and detail soil text. It also depends on good structural design done according to codes.

Au Con·traire por favor El Maestro

What if the Architect is also a Structural Engineer or part of a cooperative of professionals.

My post in 2012. I know often we ignore the simple things that matters and embrace complex things like engaging army to guard sites


Site Signboards: how important is it?

A site signboard is a requirement for all development projects. It gives detail information of all that is taking place in a construction site. It indicates details of Developer’s Name and address, Local Authority Approval Number, Details of the Architect, Engineers, Quantity Surveyors and other professionals, A pictorial impression of the proposed development, proposed date of completion, the client.

Why do we ignore to erect one?

Clients: trying to conceal their identity since the project is financed from proceed of Money Laundering.

Developers: trying to hide their identity over a dubious project especially when the project lacks necessary approvals and is been implemented by quacks.

Government: obvious reasons.

Let's think about these things and help the nation move forward. We have the capacity to transform this country from the sad state of affairs.

Let's begin to do it right!

How hard is it to see the Lekki Garden's project board by now? I'm sure they can fool everybody else with their engage pro talk except me and those like me who aren't boot lickers. Show me the path you walked, I'll decipher the truth.

mavverick:
Oga Excuzeme and the rest of the positive contributors in the house, make una no vex. I have explained earlier that i preferred if the case was fully settled before breaking news.

Also Excuzeme, I emailed u several times. Did you get my email ?

I replied every Email......... some may not be immediately due to exigencies of duty.
Check you Email again.

That last thing you asked, l gave you the general one, which l think will suffice for the time being until things get "warm' then the other can kick in, but as a backbone to the first one.
Let me put it like this: In warfare, you dont waste bullets, because you dont know how long the fight would last!

if you get my drift?

We nor vex too much..... we are just for "PEACE and JUSTICE" kwa.

brabus:
Intelligent discussion in progress. Only few can decipher the hidden truth.

And this is why I brought the subject here specifically to hear from you Pros in the house. There are other threads on here but this is the critical one because of that vey fact. We haven't hear from the Chairman himself, the Alarararuru or Arururara 1 Spyder880, I think he put up a 5 or maybe 4 story flat at least once before.

But as it is in real life you'll have rabid Dogs barking here and there, whatyougonnado

EgunMogaji:


And this is why I brought the subject here specifically to hear from you Pros in the house. There are other threads on here but this is the critical one because of that vey fact. We haven't hear from the Chairman himself, the Alarararuru or Arururara 1 Spyder880, I think he put up a 5 or maybe 4 story flat at least once before.

But as it is in real life you'll have rabid Dogs barking here and there, whatyougonnado

Oga Abeg, don't call me PRO o. Call me my name - "Master Packager"

I'm the nightmare of those forming pro and Mayweathers' cousins.

brabus:


Oga Abeg, don't call me PRO o. Call me my name - "Master Packager"

I'm the nightmare of those forming pro and Mayweathers' cousins.

I hope that you won't be upset if I disagree with you here El Heffe

While you might not be certificated (frankly I don't know), and I've never read you passing yourself off as being certificated, you're a building professional and that's that.

they are claiming that the workers suppose not to be sleeping on site... so they want to tell us that they are not aware of that from the beginning>?

it is well... i know the contractor is in deep trouble

EgunMogaji:


I hope that you won't be upset if I disagree with you here El Heffe

While you might not be certificated (frankly I don't know), and I've never read you passing yourself off as being certificated, you're a building professional and that's that.

Iriri l'agba. Just ask for evidences. We will back it up with pictures and physical docs.

I have issues with no one here but let's stop forming saint and demi-gods. Even the most certified pro can still mess up if things didn't go right.

twinskenny:
they are claiming that the workers suppose not to be sleeping on site... so they want to tell us that they are not aware of that from the beginning>?

it is well... i know the contractor is in deep trouble

What else do you expect? I wrote it few hours after the incident that the authorities should move in ASAP to collect evidences before they're been doctored.