₦airaland Forum

Slikbae:
If you do not know something, ask sincere questions or study to show thyself approved. Now it is written

1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father , the Word , and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Here, God the father was speaking to Jesus Christ
But to the Son He says:

Hebrews 1: 8 "Your throne , O God , is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom


Any more questions sir?

tempem:
well, a closer look at other translations will help you gain insight as to what has happened to this part you referenced... PLEASE DO CHECK IT..

Emusan:
Which other translations are you really talking about and Which translation do you trust apart from your NWT?

Richirich713:
Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person

That's not the trinity, it's not 3 persons equal 1 person. This is the doctrine of the trinity :

1. There is one God
2. God is 3 co-existing eternal persons.
3. Each person is fully God.

Richirich713:
It's in the word itself, a being that is not 1 person, rather it's muti-personal (more than 1 person).

Emusan:
Which other translations are you really talking about and Which translation do you trust apart from your NWT?

goodnews201668:
Three Gods, as in equal?

goodnews201668:
Are they not separate beings?

tempem:
If you must know, sir, here they are:
Rs(Revised Standard Version)
NE(The new English Bible)
TEV(Good News Bible)
JB(The Jerusalem Bible)
NAB(The new American Bible)
They left it out.

goodnews201668:
He said other translations, is the NWT the only translations out there?

Emusan:
I know but you don't know! How?

He cited some translations but tell him to show us how those translations rendered some certain verses in the Bible i.e John 1:1, Heb 1:8; then ask him if he agree with them? There you will understand that NTW is their only trusted version of the Bible other translations can be quoted hypocritically when it suits them.

Richirich713:
1. There is one God
2. God is 3 co-existing eternal persons.
3. Each person is fully God.

Richirich713:
No, one being, three persons

goodnews201668:
That one uses or prefer a particular translation to others doesn't mean he doesn't trust the other ones.

Emusan:
Then ask him; do you agree with the rendering of John 1:1 by RSV, JB, NAB e.t.c?

If he doesn't then he is an hypocrite because for a translator to left a portion out which is the best to you, the translator's work must be accepted throughout.

goodnews201668:
How can there be a one God, yet they are three coexisting?

goodnews201668:
Is either they are one or three. Is the holy spirit God too?

Richirich713:
How can there be one God and three co-existing persons?

Because God's not human, humans beings are unitarian beings, they can't be more than one person. I don't believe the greatest conceivable being must be a unitarian being.




If God were exactly like humans that would be the case, but God is not like human's, he's greater than humans in all properties.

Richirich713:
How can there be one God and three co-existing persons?

Because God's not human, humans beings are unitarian beings, they can't be more than one person. I don't believe the greatest conceivable being must be a unitarian being.




If God were exactly like humans that would be the case, but God is not like human's, he's greater than humans in all properties.

goodnews201668:
Jesus himself made this statement and it's clear and self explanatory!
John 17:3
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

King James Version (KJV)

Jozzy4:
there is a basic truth that even demons can't deny . God ( the supreme being ) is just one not three in one. James 2:19

Jozzy4:
they know this, that is why u will never see them addressing Jesus as God , rather they call him Son of that God.

Richirich713:
This is what I'm talking about, the trinity teaches God is one, it never says anything about three Gods or three beings.



Evens if they called him God, most unitarian still wouldn't believe his God.

Jozzy4:
oga, stop confusing yourself.

when I say God , am talking about the supreme being of the Universe.

Jozzy4:
Thats the God of Jesus , he doesnt have a God .

Richirich713:
So what did u think trinitarians meant by God? "Greatest conceivable being".

Is he all-loving?

Jozzy4:
the supreme being cannot be conceived. this is where catholics err making mary the mother of the SUPREME God.

Jozzy4:
i dont see how this correllate with the discussion

Emusan:
Do you believe these translations were accurate in their rendering or the translators were accurate in their work?

If you take these translations serious just because they omitted certain verse but disagree with them on other verse that makes you an hypocrite.

Lol... You are indeed a problem.. See, admit the truth and stop going about it. .. At first you never believed you'll find it there .. Yet you were shocked to find it there.... .. Now you are bringing up something you'd not accept but you'll deny again even if I put up an explanation... .. See, truth is truth and it's clear about trinity..

Giyerte:
The three monotheistic religions – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam – all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. This concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the ‘Shema’, or the Jewish creed of faith “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4)



It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Prophet Jesus, when he said “...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29)

Prophet Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again “And your God is One God: there is no God but He...” (Quran 2:163)
Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit – in one divine being.


If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter “...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity...”

Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person, God the What?
Is this English or is this gibberish?
It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it. How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?



Trinity in the Bible
References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While this ‘Great Commission’ does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase ‘...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost’ is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text – that is, not the actual words of Jesus – as can be seen by two factors:
1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
2) the ‘Great Commission’ was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost – see Mark 16:15.



The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of 1 John 5:7. Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase:
“...there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” …is definitely a ‘later addition’ to Biblical text, and it is not found in any of today’s versions of the Bible.
It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Prophet Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.


The doctrine takes shape
While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a ‘divine Son’. After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God’s revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.



Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word ‘Trinity’ when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.
A formal doctrine is drawn up
When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria – Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop – Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The church puts its foot down
The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; ‘Arianism’ became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who didn’t hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.


It wasn’t until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
Debate continues
Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.



The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than ‘I believe it because I was told to do so.’ It is explained away as ‘mystery’ – yet the Bible says “…God is not the author of confusion…” (1 Corinthians 14:33)
The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preaching of Jesus “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.” (Luke 4:


Islam and the matter of the Trinity
While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam “They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.” (Quran 5:73)
It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name ‘Allah’ as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, puts the matter quite succinctly when she says:
‘But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in.’ (What everyone should know about Islam)
Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.


Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity – God being Three-in-One – is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don’t revere just One God, they revere three.



This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Quran sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title ‘Mother of God’ by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verses in the Quran most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Quran as a ‘member’ of the Trinity, is simply not true.
While the Quran does condemn both Trinitarianism and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary, nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Quran is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.



In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Quran, God’s Last and Final Revelation to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:
“Say: ‘I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.’” (Quran 18:110)


“These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.”
(Quran 17:39)


God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout all His Revealed Scriptures “Verily, this brotherhood of yours is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore serve Me (and no other).” (Quran 21:92)

tellmeaboutislam.com/who-invented-the-trinity.html

Richirich713:
As I previously said I'm not here to debate whether the scriptures teaches the trinity. I'm just came here to correct misunderstandings about the trinity and what trinitarians actually claim.

It's better to 1st know what the trinity is b4 saying it makes no sense and that scripture doesn't teach it.

goodnews201668:
No matter how you explain it the fact is it's unscriptural!

Richirich713:
Let’s put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person

That's not the trinity, it's not 3 persons equal 1 person.