₦airaland Forum

felixomor:
Now u have suceeded in bringing "uncertainty" into the discussion. Which is better though.


And I know u wouldnt have done that had i not pointed u to other possible theories of what lies outside the universe.
Afterall, what is outside "everything"?

Now u see that ur 'everything" is only what you know?
Lesson: never use the word "everything" when you are not an authority in a field of discussion.

So when I asked earlier do u know any other thing that operates itself.
Why didnt u point out some level of unceratinty, by saying, "we have not seen any other" or say "we dont know"(as u just did above)

Now you are trying to use long lines to make ur "everything" look relative between u and i. *yinmu*
That aside.

Moreover its now obvious there is a possibility of some other things that "operate themselves" outside the universe. And also outside your "nature".

And u are arguing quantum "theories" yet you dont want people to argue metaphysical "theories". Mscheww

My best advise for people like u is just to stay in the middle.
If they ask u anything,
just say "i dont know"
It will save u so much rather than trying to be professor of "everything", yet you are inside "something".

I admit me myself am also in the container called the universe, but I can rely on someone outside (who operates based on spiritual laws also, not only physical laws of time, space and matter)
to tell me what is outside and that Person communicates with me through what you call 'consciousness"

I dont expect u to unravel consciousness. Not even the most elightened atheists have done that.

johnydon22:
The universe again is your answer... we know nothing outside the universe.

the universe is the totality of everthing..

.

felixomor:
Once such people are exposed, they only try to hide behind derogatory posts. It doesnt work. Its an old trick known with atheists.

Please whose words are those above?

johnydon22:
You clearly have nothing to say anymore.... I even defined the universe from a wikipedia source - everything contained with space/time [All of time/space] yet the willful cognitive dissonance would let you comprehend simple word usages.

Seriously need to up your game and stop throwing the words atheists up and down, i thought you said two posts ago you know i'm not an atheist, so i'm one now?

Confusion galore.

Pdizzle:
^^^So much ado about nothing. How can we even say something exists outside the universe, when we don't know how vast the universe is. The universe might be unending, nobody knows, so spare us the tale of existence of something outside of it, or give us proof.

taurus25:
that is them searching for the slightest gap to fit god in

johnydon22:
You can imagine - something so simple eludes simpletons in comprehension... It is useless engaging someone with such willful idiocy.

Things outside the universe doesn't necessarily create room for deities, they may be other universes of varying dimensions.

I have always told people - Gods may exist or not, you may find places to invoke your Gods but do not play the "God of the gap" game, it is feeble. If people can only hide their God behind places still shielded by human ignorance then as history has shown that God will forever become smaller and unneeded as our ignorance wanes.

felixomor:
So how do you explain people who died (including some atheists), experienced God and came back to life narrating the experience?

lordnicklaus:
Wow, a party.... See as you run rush the op @ johnydon22, you no even let am breath wella. No make am commit suicide o!!!! Though you do not believe in my God, I still love your outspokenness and honesty.... Keep it up bro!!! Even I have learnt a lot from your posts. I am not quite sure I can vouch for religion anymore even though I still believe in an "unknown cause" which still has effect on the expanding multiverse. But you made reference to something which caught my attention. You said the same force that is responsible for the universe is transient and could reverse itself thereby plunging the world back into its original devoid state? Please expantiate more on that, it is worth knowing. @ johnydon22.

lordnicklaus:
Bros eh!!!! No mind all those comedians. They are attention seekers! Do not believe all those cooked up fables of people crossing over to "happy ever after land" and returning. They were probably malaria patients or they probably ate belladona.

johnydon22:
It's a game of gravity brother..

Gravity provides an attracting pull and is dependent on mass..

and as we know the universe is expanding mostly due to the effects of Dark energy..

So here the possibilities are two -

If there are insufficient matter in the universe to counter this expansion then the universe will expand forever and meet a cold fate - a state where everything becomes to far apart, gravity becomes almost inexistent at that point stars cannot exist and the universe will grow dark and cold.

the part that caught your attention

If there is enough matter to produce enough mass thus gravitational attraction sufficient enough to counter this expansion, then the expansion will eventually slow down and stop and then reverse - gravitational attraction.

Everything will crunch back together - Big crunch

If this is so then the universe is more like a circle, it means its like death and rebirth, that means this wasn't the first or the last the universe has existed.

The big bang wasn't the first or the last, its a circle of Big Bang -> Big crunch -> big bang ->Big crunch.

that literally points at an eternal universe going on in an infinite loop.

felixomor:
Really?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLimoqZUWgw

lordnicklaus:
If truly there is a soul that survives death and lives on, then the devil was right when he said to Eve, "You shall not really die". Bros, even religious peeps pay people to get them to say something. I am a theist and I am not ashamed to admit that even we have faults.

felixomor:
Guy, dont allow emotions to overwhelm you like somebody on this page not long ago who will be using derogatory words and think he is debating.

This man is a renowned college professor that everybody knows not one random unknown shopkeeper.
Moreover a former aethist at that.

Asides that, there are even many more experiences of such even recorded by mainstream tv news stations.

And if really this were to be a 'magic' video, dont you think the producer will add more artificials to make it look more real?
Many After death experiences are well recorded.

lordnicklaus:
I refered to something you are yet to disprove. Does it mean the devil was right when he said "You shall not really die"?

blueAgent:
Does Science agree with Bible facts or that of Evolution?Most Atheists argue that Bible facts like the Creation,are inconsistent with Scientic views.hence they promote Evolution as the Logical answer, to explain the Origin of Man.
My purpose is to verify if this Claims are consistent with Science or if Science agrees more with the Bible.



1.Origin of the Universe and Matter.
Bigbang theory says the Universe came into existence, as a result of a massive expolsions,but this contractdicts Newtons first law of motion. Which states that a body will remain in its state of rest or remain on a straight line if in motion unless it is acted upon by a force.it also contractdicts science law which states Matter can neither be created or destoryed.for bigbang to occur someone(God) or a force must first create the object that exploded and also provide the force to intiate the explosions.this force its self must have the ability to exert force without itsself ,requiring force  and also have the ability to create matter from nothing.
Bible answer.
Hebrews11:3 Says God spoke the word and formed the Universe from Nothing .
God is the Unmovable mover, he created the entire Universe from nothing.
This is consistent with the laws of Science i mentioned above.it requires faith to believe in the Bible ,same way bigbang theory requires faith.

2.Origin of Life:Evolution and bigbang cannot explain the origin of life.life cannot originate from lightening or by chance as suggested by atheists.atheists view about origin of life contracdicts science law of  Biogenesis, that states all life can only come from pre-existing life.

Bible Answer:
The Bible in John  5:26 says For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

In Job  33:4 Says "The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life"  Life Requires a LIFEGIVER.it is
impossible to have life without a lifegiver?Only God has Life inherent in Himself. This
is, after all, what makes Him God. No one created God, because He has Life inherent in
Himself.   The  Bible also  states that God created all life during the first six days of the creation week of Genesis 1.

3.Orderliness in the Universe:Evolution and Bigbang theory suggests orderliness in the Universe came into existence by chance or by action of forces like gravity on the Universe.
They believe that Man is responsible for the destruction of the Earth rather than Sin.they believe that random events led to the orderliness in the Universe.

This contractdict The second law of thermodynamics which
proves that organization cannot flow from chaos. Complex live organisms cannot rearrange themselves into an organism of
a higher form as claimed by evolutionists.
This is scientifically backwards according
to the second law of thermodynamics,
which has never been proven wrong.The universe is slowing down. Climate change,Flooding,Famines,Droughts,Frequent Earthquakes .e.t.c are proofs that the World is becoming more Chaotic.

Order will always move
naturally towards disorder or chaos, Not the Opposite.Our complex universe is
wearing down, and becoming more chaotic...

Bible Answer:

Paul was aware of this when he wrote his letter to the Hebrews:
Everything ".. waxes old like a garment" (quoted
in both Psalm 102:25-27, and also Hebrews
1:10-12).
"This verse "anticipates the famous second law of
thermodynamics, or law of entropy, indicating
that everything in the physical universe is
growing old and wearing out. God created
everything in the beginning, winding it up like a great clock, so to speak. Because of sin and the curse, however, it has been running down and "perishing" ever since. Jesus also said: "Heaven and earth shall pass away" (literally, "are passing away" (Matthew 24:35)" - Waxing Old, like a Garment.
Isaiah  24:4 Says"The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish"
Verse5
Isaiah  24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Verse6
Isaiah  24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
A chaotic process can never led to an organised state on its own.

4.Design: It is Obvious that the entire Universe and Human body are a product of design.Evolutionists believe the Universe came into existence by chance.

What is Chance? Chance is something to occur unexpected or unplanned.this contradicts Scientific method which is the very foundation of Scientific Research.Scientific laws or principle is established only after the theory has been proven.those laws are based on observed and proven patterns not chances.Their is no way a Man will have a Penis and a woman will have a vigina by chance and yet they complement each other ,or how will a man produce sperms and concidentally or by chance a woman also has a womb that needs that sperm to procreate.
Birds have wings to enable them fly ,Fishes have fins and gills to enable them Live in water.the body of both fishes and birds are streamlined to enable them move in water and Air with less frictional resistance. all this can not be by chance they were designed to be this way.infact Science have adopted the shapes of birds and fishes in the design of Airplanes and Submarines.

Evolution can not do this. this requires design and design requires a mind and life.

Evolution is a process just like burning,farting.e.t.c they lack thought.

Bible Answer

In Psalms  139:14, it says , I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
This shows that Man and the Universe was carefully designed and made not by chance but by God Almighty.where is the logic in believing, that Robots must be designed and created ,while Man came into existence by chance.

5.Death and Decay:
Evolution and Bigbang theory suggests that objects or things move from simple cells or things to complex things or organism .they suggest that man and the Universe is evoluing into higher state. This is contray to the law of Entropy,
The genes of plants,insects, animals, and humans are continually becoming defective, not improving. Species are becoming extinct, not evolving .
Scientific observation of the world confirms that there is an inexorable law that
things decay from more complex forms into
simpler ones over time.  Radioactive elements decay into simpler elements over time. A car or house left to itself will decay over time back
into the earth from which its constituent elements came. A recent cable-TV
documentary called “Life After Humans”
affirmed and described this process very
well. It asserted that within hundreds of
years, even New York City would be reclaimed by the elements. Streets, buildings,
metallic objects, etc. would all decay into
simpler forms. rends don’t exist.Humans and animals decay immedately after death.
In order for evolution to exist,
there would have to be an immutable,observable law that simple things automatically and inexorably recombine
themselves into ever-more complex forms. It
is an observable, testable fact that such necessary evolutionary trends don’t exist.

Bible Answer.

Ecclesiastes 10:18 , Says  By much slothfulness the building decayeth; and through idleness of the hands the house droppeth through.

Ecclesiastes  3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Job  34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Ecclesiastes  12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
All this Bible verses agree with Science law of Entropy.
Things wear down. Nothing gets better by itself.

In Conclusion
There are lots of examples that prove that Science is in agreement with Bible facts and not in oppostion. but i cannot exhaust all the examples due to limited Space and time.

No wonder the great Scienctist and Physics great ,Albert Einstein said " Science without Religeon is Lame,Religeon without Science is Blind"

Thanks

BlueAgent

felixomor:
But Eve in the garden of Eden cannot be likened to this man now?
Help me clarify that before i answer ur question.

lordnicklaus:
Guy think straight. Satan was talking to Eve and we are her children, right? Then if Eve ate the fruit and we inherited death from her, then how come our soul still lives if Satan was actually lying. Again, how come we only hear of spirits of dead people and not spirits of dead animals.

KingEbukaNaija:
Nice write up bro

felixomor:
First although let me highlight some error from your likening.
Eve wasnt born, she was made.
We were born.
Eve's natural state at the garden of eden prior to the temptation when she was approached by Satan, is different from that which we are born with now. That aside.

Secondly,

Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death[/b].
[b]

The Bible even helps us to understand later in Revelations, that there is a second death.

When God spoke to Eve, he spoke of the final and second death. The permanent one.
When Satan tempted Eve, he meant the first death which is only a temporary transition prior to the second permanent death.
So it was a bait to arouse the inquisitive nature of man.

So you get?

And I didnt mean "spirits of people" when I referred to after or near death experiences (NDEs). I am not an advocate of that. Even the devil can transform himself to an angel of light and appear to anyone.

I mean people who were certified dead, then later came back to life or regained consciousness to their physical bodies.


Worldclass post. that is just the truth. even Christains are decieved. they believe in an immortal Soul. which is a lie. the Bible said the wages of Sin is death. not this one we die here on Earth. but at the Judgement day.

lordnicklaus:
Guy think straight. Satan was talking to Eve and we are her children, right? Then if Eve ate the fruit and we inherited death from her, then how come our soul still lives if Satan was actually lying. Again, how come we only hear of spirits of dead people and not spirits of dead animals.

felixomor:
Once such people are exposed, they only try to hide behind derogatory posts. It doesnt work. Its an old trick known with atheists.

Please whose words are those above?

johnydon22:
It's a game of gravity brother..

Gravity provides an attracting pull and is dependent on mass..

and as we know the universe is expanding mostly due to the effects of Dark energy..

So here the possibilities are two -

If there are insufficient matter in the universe to counter this expansion then the universe will expand forever and meet a cold fate - a state where everything becomes to far apart, gravity becomes almost inexistent at that point stars cannot exist and the universe will grow dark and cold.

the part that caught your attention

If there is enough matter to produce enough mass thus gravitational attraction sufficient enough to counter this expansion, then the expansion will eventually slow down and stop and then reverse - gravitational attraction.

Everything will crunch back together - Big crunch

If this is so then the universe is more like a circle, it means its like death and rebirth, that means this wasn't the first or the last the universe has existed.

The big bang wasn't the first or the last, its a circle of Big Bang -> Big crunch -> big bang -
>Big crunch.

that literally points at an eternal universe going on in an infinite loop.

felixomor:
Kids getting excited in science class and then beginning to question spiritual things with physical things.


It amazes me that am still waiting to see an experiment which successfully disproves the existence of God as its "conclusion".
Viz a viz the mysteries which exist till date e.g
Someone says humans evolved but cannot even explain the origin of consciousness.
Ok thats too hard, even the origin of language, did languages evolve too?
How were prophets able to predict the future out of space and time?

The human brain was once thought to be the producer of consciousness, but it has been seen not to be the case.
If it was so, people in unconscious state would simply be given a brain transplant and they would be brought back to life.

Fact remains, If you like quote science (which fulfils its own good purpose of explaining the physical) or get over excited and say because of one or two 'unsubstantiated theories, derive formula that says "god doesnt exist" or discover all the discoverables

We will all die one day, and after that its judgement.
And if you say there is no judgement, then what is the essence of being 'good" in this world?

KingEbukaNaija:
All I see from the atheists here are assumptions

theEYe21:
Who's this mugu? Science contradicts most things in the bible.

HCpaul:
I love it when religious fanatics are trying to associate science with religion. All the rapid and progressive development achieved in science are part of evolution itself.
But did you know that Science is a superset of religion while religion is just an aspect of philosophy.

If you are not ignorant of what scientific theories entails, you will realize that beliefs and other religious theories are discarded.
You can't be a science genius and retain the standard of a real Christian. Science and Religion are two different things.

Africans are the only setback that the world has.
The whites presented us Education, Religion, Civilization, Science and Technology, but among all these, Nigerians only anticipated Religion so as to easily hide their ignorance and assumptions.
Everything about Africans have been lame, irrational and apparently not worthy of emulation.

Bro! We don't create value for our lives when we don't know and we are not ready to know.

We are the most religious but still unable to control our economy. What a religious jugi - jugi.

johnydon22:
There was a time i'd have time to reply his load of nonsensical junks up there, it really irks me when people argue from a state of stark ignorance..

I have always maintain there is no problem or shame in ignorance only when irrational thoughts and untold arrogance takes the place left by ignorance, exactly what the OP is.

In fact i will reply and take that piece of of junk apart... I'm coming.

johnydon22:
Next time ask what not who... this egoistic anthropomorphism has always being the greatest problem humans have in understanding the universe.

Everything is not limited to who, he, she.... when next you ask

what is nature?

widening the horizons of possible answers then my reply to you becomes..

-Drop your phone and go outside, buy a telescope, buy a microscope.

That's all.

davien:
Nature is but a term used for how the universe operates itself, because the universe lacks any demonstrable entity.

She or he isn't relevant to nature.. it's not anthropomorphic, that-is nature isn't bound by human gender nor characters though we humans often regard it as a mother to best describe the way it shrouds everything... living and non-living.

Everywhere.. The very definition itself puts nature at every level of existence that can, is and will be known.