₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
@bolded

But that thing that created the universe can exists from nothing?

Read this OP again and read my response to the same question asked by someone else on this thread.

Your question has been tackled already.

.

0ubenji:
1stly, I'm a theist, BUT NOT A RELIGIOUS FANATIC as u must av imagined most of us to be.
2ndly, ur statement on staged miracles reeks of bigotry of the highest ineptitude. It's purely oxymoronic to say "common signs dem no fit do"...only for u to say again in a flash that "their pastors keep staging miracles". This means u've acknowledged the signs and wonders, but errant reasoning made u ascribe ALL of them to "staging"..
Not all Sir, the fact that u can't tap into their level of spiritual connectivity doesn't exactly give u room to dismiss its authenticity.

Bros, almost all the miracles we've seen can be staged or coincidental or ambiguous

Autoresuscitation (dead coming alive) for instance happens without prayer but if it happens when praying, prayer would get all the credit

A deaf hearing can happen too with/without prayer

That's why we want TO SEE A LIMB GROW

That can't be staged by any known means or coincidence

hopefulLandlord:
Bros, almost all the miracles we've seen can be staged or coincidental or ambiguous

I like ur practical approach to this. "CAN" thr simply means, the possibility of falsities exists but not always. So some CAN be the real deal.

----------------

COINCIDENTAL?. That's a gud point u raised. I'd like u to agree that when coincidences are repeated in a fixed/variant pattern, you av a FACT alredi. Religion and science agree to this.
If u got a migraine and u take Panadol, then the pain goes, u might say it's coincidence. If, however, u notice it's only abt the time u take panadol that the migraine leaves. We don't need rocket science to understand what cures the migraine.

--------------------

AMBIGUOUS?. I don't knw if u an Atheist, Deist, Agnostic or Skeptic, but we both agree that if ur religious faction or faith system contains some rudiments of spirituality, then ambiguity is inevitable sinx the ordinary mind can't grasp somtin beyond the physical. The fact that a conjuror causes strange tinz to apun right b4 ur eyes which u cnt explain, doesn't necessarily mean it's always fake. Kip in mind ur disbelief in what u see doesn't disprove the entity behind the power being real.

4everGod:
You don't get it do you? He does not have to believe in my God as that is an issue for another day....he believes in a god is what I told you. He is intelligent enough to know that randomness cannot bring order neither can something exist from nothing. Something has to cause something else to react even if it is called "dark energy". By the way "dark" means "UNKNOWN"

What are you saying?...

Didnt you watch the first video in which he said that the universe was for free and could have just popped out of nothing?

werent you the one insulting him saying he ddnt show you the calculation that proves that the universe has zero energy, zero charge and zero spin?

why are you desperate to claim he believes in something in which he clearly doesnt believe in?.

i am a fan of michio kaku and i follow his work, i know what he has and has not said and he doesnt believe there is any intelligence behind the universe...jeez

hopefulLandlord:
That's why we want TO SEE A LIMB GROW

Lolz..Dear friend, simply say "u av not seen where it happened"..or something more miraculous at that.
Ur resolve to not to accept the "miracle" concept wud stil make u scream "staging!", when U eventually see a limb grow b4 ur very eyes.

dear op...4everGod...i think the title should be changed to the failure of all religions to account for existence...
Anyone who has gone deep in things abt the physical universe and still attribute it to an abrahamic god who is tied to horses and old(lame) things...should go back to the internet and re-read all he had read....
If u truly believe a medieval god presented by the bible quran etc created this universe of unending possibilities...raise ur hand...very far from ur body...and give urself a good knock on the head...
Things are still being created year in year out...creation which was supposed to have ended as the bible said is still on-going..

Im really sad when u bring up god as a first cause..that logic is flawed..big time

youre presenting a god of the gaps...
Real tech Science is not even up to 2 millenia and ure complaining..
Abeg present tangible stuffs nt all these

hopefulLandlord:
Autoresuscitation (dead coming alive) for instance happens without prayer but if it happens when praying, prayer would get all the credit

Isn't it too much of a coincidence that it nearly always apuns when praying is involved?
Remember, always do what works for u..!!

donnffd:
What are you saying?...

Didnt you watch the first video in which he said that the universe was for free and could have just popped out of nothing?

werent you the one insulting him saying he ddnt show you the calculation that proves that the universe has zero energy, zero charge and zero spin?

why are you desperate to claim he believes in something in which he clearly doesnt believe in?.

i am a fan of michio kaku and i follow his work, i know what he has and has not said and he doesnt believe there is any intelligence behind the universe...jeez

You are a fan yet you do not knowbwhat spinozism is yet you quoted it? Gosh

raphieMontella:
dear op...4everGod...i think the title should be changed to the failure of all religions to account for existence...
Anyone who has gone deep in things abt the physical universe and still attribute it to an abrahamic god who is tied to horses and old(lame) things...should go back to the internet and re-read all he had read....
If u truly believe a medieval god presented by the bible quran etc created this universe of unending possibilities...raise ur hand...very far from ur body...and give urself a good knock on the head...
Things are still being created year in year out...creation which was supposed to have ended as the bible said is still on-going..

Im really sad when u bring up god as a first cause..that logic is flawed..big time

youre presenting a god of the gaps...
Real tech Science is not even up to 2 millenia and ure complaining..
Abeg present tangible stuffs nt all these

Are you one of those who have gone deep into the things concerning the physical universe? If so why not educate me.

0ubenji:
Isn't it too much of a coincidence that it nearly always apuns when praying is involved?
Remember, always do what works for u..!!

"Nearly always happens when prayer is involved"

Oga there's barely any statistics to support that

raphieMontella:
dear op...4everGod...i think the title should be changed to the failure of all religions to account for existence...

It is with much regret that I'd av to objectively agree u juz spat the Naked Truth.
That is where FAITH comes in, which is the basis for evry religion.

0ubenji:
Lolz..Dear friend, simply say "u av not seen where it happened"..or something more miraculous at that.
Ur resolve to not to accept the "miracle" concept wud stil make u scream "staging!", when U eventually see a limb grow b4 ur very eyes.

Have you seen a limb grow?

We are already on that

There's been arrangement laid down for it

https://www.nairaland.com/3261481/atheists-lagos-worldwide-come-witness

hopefulLandlord:
"Nearly always happens when prayer is involved"

Oga there's barely any statistics to support that

Lolz..how bou u present a plethora of statistics to disprove that as well.
Atleast thr r times when rescucitation apuns without prayer. How about when it apuns when prayer is involved?

4everGod:
You are a fan yet you do not knowbwhat spinozism is yet you quoted it? Gosh

Its either you dont read my posts or you are just being intellectually dishonest.

I am not a fan of spinozism, i am a fan of michio kaku and this intellingent man as you called him earlier is wise enough to study the universe and not making silly assumptions about it and in by so doing has come to the possibility of the universe popping out of nothing from a larger 11 dimensional hyperspace...

And your anchor is that he mentioned the spinoza type of god?

Smh

0ubenji:
Lolz..how bou u present a plethora of statistics to disprove that as well.
Atleast thr r times when rescucitation apuns without prayer. How about when it apuns when prayer is involved?

Bros, if it can happen without it even once, its possible that everyone that happens with it is purely "coincidental"

An unambiguous one would be one that can NEVER happen without it

That's why we want TO SEE A LIMB GROW

donnffd:
Its either you dont read my posts or you are just being intellectually dishonest.

I am not a fan of spinozism, i am a fan of michio kaku and this intellingent man as you called him earlier is wise enough to study the universe and not making silly assumptions about it and in by so doing has come to the possibility of the universe popping out of nothing from a larger 11 dimensional hyperspace...

And your anchor is that he mentioned the spinoza type of god?

Smh

You are deliberately acting ignorant. Thanks for your time

hopefulLandlord:
Bros, if it can happen without it even once, its possible that everyone that happens with it is purely "coincidental"

Haha...lolz..Landlord...lolz..
*chews kola*

*crosses legs*

According to u now, if ur phone can go off by itself EVEN ONCE, so it's possible that Evrytime ur press the "switch-off" button on ur phone, it's purely coincidental that ur fone goes off afterwards baa?...lolz..lolz...YOU'RE BLESSED brother..

0ubenji:
Haha...lolz..Landlord...lolz..
*chews kola*

*crosses legs*

According to u now, if ur phone can go off by itself EVEN ONCE, so it's possible that Evrytime ur press the "switch-off" button on ur phone, it's purely coincidental that ur fone goes off afterwards baa?...lolz..lolz...YOU'RE BLESSED brother..

Bros listen to yourself

Look around you

Your bible said in 6 (six) separate places that if you ask ANYTHING in his name (Jesus) he'll do it

There's pastor nick, who has no hands and legs

There's Ayefele who's wheelchair bound

People of your faith die like every other

Haven't they prayed with faith greater than a "mustard seed"?

Why hasn't your god answered them?


Now to your analogy about phones

My phone is with me

If I press the power button it goes off, if I do again, it comes on

That's like 99.99% efficiency

If you're not being dishonest, prayers prayed vs prayers answered doesn't have anything close that kinda accuracy


Let's me be generous here and say so called prayer works 1% of the time (generous)

Now if once out of every one hundred times I push power button, it "works"; its only natural to put it down to "coincidence" anytime it works because the amount of time, it doesn't work far outnumbers the times it works

0ubenji:
Haha...lolz..Landlord...lolz..
*chews kola*

*crosses legs*

According to u now, if ur phone can go off by itself EVEN ONCE, so it's possible that Evrytime ur press the "switch-off" button on ur phone, it's purely coincidental that ur fone goes off afterwards baa?...lolz..lolz...YOU'RE BLESSED brother..

Bro have you really seen a clear cut miracle if yes good for you
I have never seen any all my life of being a Christian and going to different churches all I v seen is bobo

4everGod:
Are you one of those who have gone deep into the things concerning the physical universe? If so why not educate me.

baba standard sites many
esa,,asi,,,nasa,,space,,havard..
Well...im nt tryna belittle u or sometin
bt i can confidently tell u..if this world was created(set in motion)..it is not an abrahamic god that did so...
Science does not claim full knowledge of the origin bt will never fill that gap with a god...because science will keep on improving...
Science grows as the earth ages

hopefulLandlord:
Bros listen to yourself

Look around you

Your bible said in 6 (six) separate places that if you ask ANYTHING in his name (Jesus) he'll do it

There's pastor nick, who has no hands and legs

There's Ayefele who's wheelchair bound

People of your faith die like every other

Haven't they prayed with faith greater than a "mustard seed"?

Why hasn't your god answered them?


Now to your analogy about phones

My phone is with me

If I press the power button it goes off, if I do again, it comes on

That's like 99.99% efficiency

If you're not being dishonest, prayers prayed vs prayers answered doesn't have anything close that kinda accuracy


Let's me be generous here and say so called prayer works 1% of the time (generous)

Now if once out of every one hundred times I push power button, it "works"; its only natural to put it down to "coincidence" anytime it works because the amount of time, it doesn't work far outnumbers the times it works

i wont even call the placebo effect a coincedence if u included it in that 1 percent...
If u did...deduct and re-calculate

hopefulLandlord:
Bros listen to yourself

Look around you

Your bible said in 6 (six) separate places that if you ask ANYTHING in his name (Jesus) he'll do it

There's pastor nick, who has no hands and legs

There's Ayefele who's wheelchair bound

People of your faith die like every other

Haven't they prayed with faith greater than a "mustard seed"?

Why hasn't your god answered them?


Now to your analogy about phones

My phone is with me

If I press the power button it goes off, if I do again, it comes on

That's like 99.99% efficiency

If you're not being dishonest, prayers prayed vs prayers answered doesn't have anything close that kinda accuracy


Let's me be generous here and say so called prayer works 1% of the time (generous)

Now if out of every one hundred times I push power button, it "works"; its only natural to put it down to "coincidence" anytime it works because the amount of time, it doesn't work far outnumbers the times it works

I don't talk much mahn..

------------------

1 John 5:14-15.
14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that
if we ask anything ACCORDING TO HIS WILL he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that
we have the requests that we have asked of him.

-------------------------

Thessalonians 5:17-18.

17 PRAY WITHOUT CEASING, 18 GIVE THANKS IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

---------------------

Isaiah 55:8

“FOR MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT UR THOUGHTS, NEITHER
ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS,” declares the LORD.

------------------------

Lemme knw if u need more.
If u need understanding and in-depth detailing of any of the bible references I gave. Don't be shy, ask, I'll explain to u in layman's terms.
In ayefele's case, I guess u are his God who determines what and what happens. Not like u knw wat wud av been his fate if he's standin on his feet today.

hopefulLandlord:
"Haven't they prayed with faith greater than a "mustard seed"?"..

I never knew u had a rented apartment in their. Minds to knw what goes on there.

hopefulLandlord:
People of your faith die like every other

I'll really like to join ur Faith where its people are fantastic immortals, juz as I assume u are..

The fact that sometin doesn't conform to ur thought pattern is not a yardstick to dismiss it as false.

0ubenji:
It is with much regret that I'd av to objectively agree u juz spat the Naked Truth.
That is where FAITH comes in, which is the basis for evry religion.

thank you for ur honesty

raphieMontella:
baba standard sites many
esa,,asi,,,nasa,,space,,havard..
Well...im nt tryna belittle u or sometin
bt i can confidently tell u..if this world was created(set in motion)..it is not an abrahamic god that did so...
Science does not claim full knowledge of the origin bt will never fill that gap with a god...because science will keep on improving...
Science grows as the earth ages

but you believe it was created correct?

0ubenji:
I don't talk much mahn..

------------------

1 John 5:14-15.
14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that
if we ask anything ACCORDING TO HIS WILL he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that
we have the requests that we have asked of him.

-------------------------

Thessalonians 5:17-18.

17 PRAY WITHOUT CEASING, 18 GIVE THANKS IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

---------------------

Isaiah 55:8

“FOR MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT UR THOUGHTS, NEITHER
ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS,” declares the LORD.

------------------------

Lemme knw if u need more.
If u need understanding and in-depth detailing of any of the bible references I gave. Don't be shy, ask, I'll explain to u in layman's terms.
In ayefele's case, I guess u are his God who determines what and what happens. Not like u knw wat wud av been his fate if he's standin on his feet today.


I never knew u had a rented apartment in their. Minds to knw what goes on there.


I'll really like to join ur Faith where its people are fantastic immortals, juz as I assume u are..

The fact that sometin doesn't conform to ur thought pattern is not a yardstick to dismiss it as false.

Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!


Ask and you will receive. What could be simpler than that?


In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.


Since a mustard seed is a tiny inanimate object about the size of a grain of salt, it is easy to imagine that the faith of a mustard seed is fairly small. So, paraphrasing, what Jesus is saying is that if you have the tiniest bit of faith, you can move mountains.


Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.


The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them

efismikoko:
Bro have you really seen a clear cut miracle if yes good for you
I have never seen any all my life of being a Christian and going to different churches all I v seen is bobo

U seem gifted in oxymoronic expressions..
U've never seen a CLEAR-CUT miracle in ur life, yet again, THE ONES YOU AV SEEN is bobo.
U juz acknowledged that u've seen, but u, unfortunately, ascribe dem, so far, to being bobo.
This is ur resolve bro, u juz don't wanna accept it. It's quite understandable with respect to ur faith system.
Beauty, they say, remains in the eyes of the BEHOLDER.
There's good in something, only if u open the GOOD part of ur eyes to see.

4everGod:
but you believe it was created correct?

personally i dont...bt the possibility cannot be ruled out completely(jst a lil)
the way planets form etc has been all observed...
Stars are being formed per time..
All of these happening naturally...
Astro physics hasnt been able to say what triggered the singularity and what was before the singularity...we dnt know yet ....
So its always human nature to want to fill a block in knowledge with a god...
Like now...some persons believe the ufos placed the starting root of our earth(i dont believe that shvt tho)..not otem's ufo stuff..
They believe in aliens creating us bt we cant confidently say there are no aliens..
Kelper earths are there...etc
if we do find life on them pple wud want to replace religious gods with them..tho we might have formed/evolved/made the same way they did...
Ts human nature to place god..

It is wrong to ask such questions. This is above our brain. We should work hard obey Almighty and look to our salvation in Christ alone.All else is folly.

hopefulLandlord:
Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!


Ask and you will receive. What could be simpler than that?


In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.


Since a mustard seed is a tiny inanimate object about the size of a grain of salt, it is easy to imagine that the faith of a mustard seed is fairly small. So, paraphrasing, what Jesus is saying is that if you have the tiniest bit of faith, you can move mountains.


Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.


The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says it again:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them

Quite strange that u take bible quotations literally from what u read innit.

Lemme introduce u to an interesting story relating to ur idea of "prayers FOR JUST ANYTHING and expect to get answers for it, IRRESPECTIVE of what it is"



Matthew 26:39, on the night before His crucifixion, Jesus
prayed,
“




O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me;
nevertheless, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL.




This prayer wasn't answered in literal context, as it is that he was crucified afterwards.

All the copy and paste work u have up thr were Jesus's teachings and exact words. The same ones u hinge on.
Are u not baffled, that even he(jesus) that allegedly stated Matthew 7:7 et' al cudnt even have it in the exact context that u've always taken those verses for?
Definitely, You can't say he dint av Faith...hmmn..what cud be the prob?

so..landlord..
Don't u fink u're missing somtin here..??

0ubenji:
Quite strange that u take bible quotations literally from what u read innit.

Lemme introduce u to an interesting story relating to ur idea of "prayers FOR JUST ANYTHING and expect to get answers for it, IRRESPECTIVE of what it is"



Matthew 26:39, on the night before His crucifixion, Jesus
prayed,
“




O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me;
nevertheless, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL.




This prayer wasn't answered in literal context, as it is that he was crucified afterwards.

All the copy and paste work u have up thr were Jesus's teachings and exact words. The same ones u hinge on.
Are u not baffled, that even he(jesus) that allegedly stated Matthew 7:7 et' al cudnt even have it in the exact context that u've always taken those verses for?
Definitely, You can't say he dint av Faith...hmmn..what cud be the prob?

so..landlord..
Don't u fink u're missing somtin here..??

what is gods will in pple who are born with deadly defects...cojoined twins kids with sm parts missing..kids without anus's etc..
Born to wretchedly poor parents...
And he refuses to do smtin..is it a game?

0ubenji:
Quite strange that u take bible quotations literally from what u read innit.

Lemme introduce u to an interesting story relating to ur idea of "prayers FOR JUST ANYTHING and expect to get answers for it, IRRESPECTIVE of what it is"



Matthew 26:39, on the night before His crucifixion, Jesus
prayed,
“




O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me;
nevertheless, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS YOU WILL.




This prayer wasn't answered in literal context, as it is that he was crucified afterwards.

All the copy and paste work u have up thr were Jesus's teachings and exact words. The same ones u hinge on.
Are u not baffled, that even he(jesus) that allegedly stated Matthew 7:7 et' al cudnt even have it in the exact context that u've always taken those verses for?
Definitely, You can't say he dint av Faith...hmmn..what cud be the prob?

so..landlord..
Don't u fink u're missing somtin here..??

Bros, if I hear you right, you're saying if it aligns with Yahweh's will, he would answer the prayer

Why pray then? Since that Yahweh would do what he wills anyways