₦airaland Forum

Odunayaw:
....coming from a country that cant afford to have pilots

young man...I'll tell you something for free..you are a dunce

They can't even afford common aviation fuel for their planes. I found his comment to be so hilarious.

Henry240:
A contract hasn't been announced yet Dufus. We'll have to wait till November at the IDEAS exhibition.

Ahhhh I remember the days when old Henry here said the JF17s will be delivered by September, now we hear that not even a contract has been announced!

@Patches689

Gripen:

Much much Lower wing loading(More Maneuverable)
Faster Climb rate(more maneuverable)
Much much much lower RCS
Shorter take of distance
much much higher G Load(More Maneuverable)...+9/-4 vs +8/-3
More Hard points
better HMI
Better HMD
Much Much Much Much Much Much Better Radar(120km for objects with an RCS of 0.1m2 vs 105km for objects with an RCS of 3m2)......dus the Gripen will be invisible at 105km were as the Junk Fighter would be seen 150km+ away!


Yet Henry still argues that the Junk Fighter is better

Oh!!!! and before i forget according to PAC (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) the guys who build the Junk Fighter, its a 3rd Gen fighter

Wont help arguing mate his blinded by his own ignorance/patriotism

jln115:
@Patches689

Gripen:

Much much Lower wing loading(More Maneuverable)
Faster Climb rate(more maneuverable)
Much much much lower RCS
Shorter take of distance
much much higher G Load(More Maneuverable)...+9/-4 vs +8/-3
More Hard points
better HMI
Better HMD
Much Much Much Much Much Much Better Radar(120km for objects with an RCS of 0.1m2 vs 105km for objects with an RCS of 3m2)......dus the Gripen will be invisible at 105km were as the Junk Fighter would be seen 150km+ away!


Yet Henry still argues that the Junk Fighter is better

Oh!!!! and before i forget according to PAC (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) the guys who build the Junk Fighter, its a 3rd Gen fighter

Wont help arguing mate his blinded by his own ignorance/patriotism

The JF-17 comes with revolutionary DSI intakes, the Gripen is not more maneuverable.


RCS is purely a speculative figure. Come with proof of Gripen RCS calculation, and from which angle?

The JF-17 has a range that doubles that of a Gripen. Shorter takeoff distance is laughable.


The G-Load for the Gripen is +9, only slightly different from the JF-17 at +8. How many times have pilots maneuvers up to 9 Gs? The JF-17 G load is within the envelope of all modern fighters.


1 more hard point is not an advantage, especially when the JF-17 carriers a multiple bomb rack which can carry 3 bombs on each rack. Dude, i thought you are intelligent, you can do better?



HMD, again the JF-17 is lined up to start integrating an HMD.


Radar, have you heard of the KLjV2 which the JF-17 already carries....... Come now dude, stop embarrassing yourself.


The JF-17 also has a much higher service ceiling.

The JF-17 is a better fighter than the Gripen C/D. This isn't even up for a debate.


Guy, use your brains, it is there for a reason, Chinese classification of jets differ from that of the west. J-10, J-11 are also classified as 3rd Gen. I don't expect you to dumb down to Patches689's level. Your Gripens are trash, especially at $65 million a unit.

Henry240:
The JF-17 comes with revolutionary DSI intakes, the Gripen is not more maneuverable.


RCS is purely a speculative figure. Come with proof of Gripen RCS calculation, and from which angle?

The JF-17 has a range that doubles that of a Gripen. Shorter takeoff distance is laughable.


The G-Load for the Gripen is +9, only slightly different from the JF-17 at +8. How many times have pilots maneuvers up to 9 Gs? The JF-17 G load is within the envelope of all modern fighters.


1 more hard point is not an advantage, especially when the JF-17 carriers a multiple bomb rack which can carry 3 bombs on each rack. Dude, i thought you are intelligent, you can do better?



HMD, again the JF-17 is lined up to start integrating an HMD.


Radar, have you heard of the KLjV2 which the JF-17 already carries....... Come now dude, stop embarrassing yourself.


The JF-17 is a better fighter than the Gripen C/D. This isn't even up for a debate.


Guy, use your brains, it is there for a reason, Chinese classification of jets differ from that of the west. J-10, J-11 are also classified as 3rd Gen. I don't expect you to dumb down to Patches689's level. Your Gripens are trash, especially at $65 million a unit.

- lower wing loading, movable canards so yes its more maneuverable

- According to experts the Gripens RCS is 0.1m2(front on), while the Junk Fighter RCS is 3m2(Front on).....Ive posted multiple sources regarding this fact.

- Gripen ferry range: 3000km+, JF-17 ferry range 2000km!!!! and BTW TIA(this is Africa) so shorter take off and landing distance makes a huge difference

- So now the Gripen doesn't come with bomb racks??

- according to PAC its only coming with an HMS not HMD.

- 1G = 8 tons+ more weight the air frame can injure while maneuvering.....so yes 1G is fvcking massive and pilots regularly pull 9 Gs well not JF-17 pilots obviously.

- Yes i have and its pretty weak, 110km range for an object 3m2 in size....vs 120km for an object the size of 0.1m2

-The Gripen out climbs the JF-17 easily so the slightly higher service ceiling wont count for sh!t.

- saying it over and over wont make it true

- i quoted PAC not Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).....and until you prove that PAF classifies the the JF-17 differently and thus classify the F-16 as 3rd gen as well, then the JF-17 is 3rd gen!

jln115:
- lower wing loading, movable canards so yes its more maneuverable

- According to experts the Gripens RCS is 0.1m2(front on), while the Junk Fighter RCS is 3m2(Front on).....Ive posted multiple sources regarding this fact.

- Gripen ferry range: 3000km+, JF-17 ferry range 2000km!!!! and BTW TIA(this is Africa) so shorter take off and landing distance makes a huge difference

- So now the Gripen doesn't come with bomb racks??

- according to PAC its only coming with an HMS not HMD.

- 1G = 8 tons+ more weight the air frame can injure while maneuvering.....so yes 1G is fvcking massive and pilots regularly pull 9 Gs well not JF-17 pilots obviously.

- Yes i have and its pretty weak, 110km range for an object 3m2 in size....vs 120km for an object the size of 0.1m2

- saying it over and over wont make it true

- i quoted PAC not Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).....and until you prove that PAF classifies the the JF-17 differently and thus classify the F-16 as 3rd gen as well, then the JF-17 is 3rd gen!

- No sir, DSI allows the JF-17 to be more maneuverable.


- Experts who haven't examined the jets they are supposed to be talking about. Again, RCS of fighters can't be proven in forums and open sources. So yes, your trash about RCS is what it is.... Trash. Provide me a better argument.


- Lmao..... "Who gives a hoot about ferry range?".... Even with the ferry range, the JF-17 is 3800km.

Combat Radius.... The combat radius of the JF-17 is 1352km, the Gripen is 800km.


- the JF-17 also has a much higher service ceiling than the Gripen.

- G-Load, Fighter pilots never pull 9 Gs. The JF-17 is well within the G-Load of all modern aircrafts.

- Dufus, this is Africa, Range is king, not takeoff distance.


- no dummy, the KLJV2 which comes with the Block 2 has a range of 150km. Anyway with AWACS radar range is irrelevant. We can deploy our ATR-42s with a Radar range of 400km as a mini-Awacs.


- I'm saying your Gripen is Trash, because it is Trash. Your butt-hurt won't change that.


- The JF-17 is a Chinese plane, it follows Chinese doctrine and weapons classification.


Anyway, we are done here, don't blame me, go blame Mbeki for paying $65 million a pop for a JF-17 from the West. Perhaps if the Gripen was reasonably priced, your Air Force wouldn't be struggling with aviation fuel. Sorry!

Henry240:
- No sir, DSI allows the JF-17 to be more maneuverable.


- Experts who haven't examined the jets they are supposed to be talking about. Again, RCS of fighters can't be proven in forums and open sources. So yes, your trash about RCS is what it is.... Trash. Provide me a better argument.


- Lmao..... "Who gives a hoot about ferry range?".... Even with the ferry range, the JF-17 is 3800km.

Combat Radius.... The combat radius of the JF-17 is 1352km, the Gripen is 800km.


- the JF-17 also has a much higher service ceiling than the Gripen.

- G-Load, Fighter pilots never pull 9 Gs. The JF-17 is well within the G-Load of all modern aircrafts.

- Dufus, this is Africa, Range is king, not takeoff distance.


- no dummy, the KLJV2 which comes with the Block 2 has a range of 150km. Anyway with AWACS radar range is irrelevant. We can deploy our ATR-42s with a Radar range of 400km as a mini-Awacs.


- I'm saying your Gripen is Trash, because it is Trash. Your butt-hurt won't change that.


- The JF-17 is a Chinese plane, it follows Chinese doctrine and weapons classification.


Anyway, we are done here, don't blame me, go blame Mbeki for paying $65 million a pop for a JF-17 from the West. Perhaps if the Gripen was reasonably priced, your Air Force wouldn't be struggling with aviation fuel. Sorry!

-You don't even know what DSI is let alone how it works, BTW what do the Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon,SU30mki and J10 have in common?.....They all have movable canards and not some magical DSI

- Provided several sources when this debate popped up! And not one from any so called forum!

-Combat radius is 1550km with an external full tank......We just mount it on our 1 extra hard point........and landing on short unprepared runways is key in Africa bro!!

- By much higher you mean 5000ft? You do realize the climb rate of the Gripen will make the JF17 look as if its searching for a parking spot?

-Yes 150km for what?? an object 3m2 in size if the PS/05a can spot an object 0.1m2 in size at 120km....how far away do you think it will see an object 30 times larger??

- Bro to become a Gripen Pilot you have to withstand 9G for 30 seconds!! So yes Pilots pull 9G, that's why they train for it!!

-Hahahaha calling maritime patrol aircraft a mini AWACS

-You say the Gipen trash yet NAF flies mig21s Oh and BTW the Gripen is operated by 6 countries and a further 3 countries have order the Gripen....but yes its trash!!

-Yet i quoted PAC a Pakistani company and not a Chinese one.....now if you can prove that PAF classifies all their 4 gen Fighters as 3rd Gen then you would have a point.....but you don't!

-We struggle with aviation fuel yet 11 of our fighters flew close to 140 hours in a course of a weekend just 2 months ago??

@Henry240

SAAF Gripen pulling 9g only 20s in to the video!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUaVt5hcA8

jln115:
-
-We struggle with aviation fuel yet 11 of our fighters flew close to 140 hours in a course of a weekend just 2 months ago??

We are done.

Henry240:
We are done.

Uhm buddy that's 5 hours a day per Aircraft.....Something NAF can never pull of!

jln115:
- lower wing loading, movable canards so yes its more maneuverable

- According to experts the Gripens RCS is 0.1m2(front on), while the Junk Fighter RCS is 3m2(Front on).....Ive posted multiple sources regarding this fact.

- Gripen ferry range: 3000km+, JF-17 ferry range 2000km!!!! and BTW TIA(this is Africa) so shorter take off and landing distance makes a huge difference

- So now the Gripen doesn't come with bomb racks??

- according to PAC its only coming with an HMS not HMD.

- 1G = 8 tons+ more weight the air frame can injure while maneuvering.....so yes 1G is fvcking massive and pilots regularly pull 9 Gs well not JF-17 pilots obviously.

- Yes i have and its pretty weak, 110km range for an object 3m2 in size....vs 120km for an object the size of 0.1m2

-The Gripen out climbs the JF-17 easily so the slightly higher service ceiling wont count for sh!t.

- saying it over and over wont make it true

- i quoted PAC not Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).....and until you prove that PAF classifies the the JF-17 differently and thus classify the F-16 as 3rd gen as well, then the JF-17 is 3rd gen!

I saw ur ignorance on range and I immediately felt sorry for your less privileged self

So with the sense u claim to have and Google as ur friend...u still don't know the fundamental definition and characteristics of a 4th gen jet

I mean are you guys not ashamed of yourselves!!!

jln115:
-You don't even know what DSI is let alone how it works, BTW what do the Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon,SU30mki and J10 have in common?.....They all have movable canards and not some magical DSI

- Provided several sources when this debate popped up! And not one from any so called forum!

-Combat radius is 1550km with an external full tank......We just mount it on our 1 extra hard point........and landing on short unprepared runways is key in Africa bro!!

- By much higher you mean 5000ft? You do realize the climb rate of the Gripen will make the JF17 look as if its searching for a parking spot?

-Yes 150km for what?? an object 3m2 in size if the PS/05a can spot an object 0.1m2 in size at 120km....how far away do you think it will see an object 30 times larger??

- Bro to become a Gripen Pilot you have to withstand 9G for 30 seconds!! So yes Pilots pull 9G, that's why they train for it!!

-Hahahaha calling maritime patrol aircraft a mini AWACS

-You say the Gipen trash yet NAF flies mig21s Oh and BTW the Gripen is operated by 6 countries and a further 3 countries have order the Gripen....but yes its trash!!

-Yet i quoted PAC a Pakistani company and not a Chinese one.....now if you can prove that PAF classifies all their 4 gen Fighters as 3rd Gen then you would have a point.....but you don't!

-We struggle with aviation fuel yet 11 of our fighters flew close to 140 hours in a course of a weekend just 2 months ago??

this idiot doesn't even know what a DSI means

Jeez dude...u put south African education to shame
U can insult the US for adding dsi to the f35 and the Chinese for the j10

First y'all compared to su-30mki..next f16 block 52

Mandela refused to cure y'all of inferiority complex

...your pants r down..now go wipe ur poo of ignorance

jln115:
Uhm buddy that's 5 hours a day per Aircraft.....Something NAF can never pull of!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_jet_fighter

Read this and come back for a high school scholarship..I could throw in extra learning aids

Dullard!!

Henry240:
The JF-17 comes with revolutionary DSI intakes, the Gripen is not more maneuverable.


RCS is purely a speculative figure. Come with proof of Gripen RCS calculation, and from which angle?

The JF-17 has a range that doubles that of a Gripen. Shorter takeoff distance is laughable.


The G-Load for the Gripen is +9, only slightly different from the JF-17 at +8. How many times have pilots maneuvers up to 9 Gs? The JF-17 G load is within the envelope of all modern fighters.


1 more hard point is not an advantage, especially when the JF-17 carriers a multiple bomb rack which can carry 3 bombs on each rack. Dude, i thought you are intelligent, you can do better?



HMD, again the JF-17 is lined up to start integrating an HMD.


Radar, have you heard of the KLjV2 which the JF-17 already carries....... Come now dude, stop embarrassing yourself.


The JF-17 also has a much higher service ceiling.

The JF-17 is a better fighter than the Gripen C/D. This isn't even up for a debate.


Guy, use your brains, it is there for a reason, Chinese classification of jets differ from that of the west. J-10, J-11 are also classified as 3rd Gen. I don't expect you to dumb down to Patches689's level. Your Gripens are trash, especially at $65 million a unit.

DSI intakes have nothing to do with maneuverability

RCS has been given many times

Gripen is faster and can carry and extra 1500kgs of weapons...

Gripens G rating is higher. Which allows it to do things they Junk Fighter cannot. It is better end of story.

So one extra hard point does not count? What about an extra 1500kgs of payload? Yeah I thought so....


Gripens are trash?

86 v 20. The air forces of the world have spoken.

Odunayaw:
this idiot doesn't even know what a DSI means

Jeez dude...u put south African education to shame
U can insult the US for adding dsi to the f35 and the Chinese for the j10

First y'all compared to su-30mki..next f16 block 52

Mandela refused to cure y'all of inferiority complex

...your pants r down..now go wipe ur poo of ignorance

He thinks DSI improves maneuverablity

Good work @jln115

Your going to have to hold the fort for a while

But I see you completely BTFO Henry120 (will he ever recover?) So your watch may be chilled

Patchesagain:
Good work @jln115

Your going to have to hold the fort for a while

But I see you completely BTFO Henry120 (will he ever recover?) So your watch may be chilled

He finished Henry with fault claims right?

Range and RCS he claimed the gripen has is funny not to talk of gripen detecting object with RCS of 0.1m2 120km away when Britain that sold the radar to Sweden never claim such on typhoon.

CAPTOR-E is only able to detect F-35 59km away and your junk fighter will detect similar object 120km away.
http://m.koreatimes.co/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=97236

You South Africans are really funny.

jln115:
-You don't even know what DSI is let alone how it works, BTW what do the Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon,SU30mki and J10 have in common?.....They all have movable canards and not some magical DSI

Mr man DSI limits JF17 high speed just like the F35.

canard also increases RCS just like the J20 whose canard is being coated. Yours doesn't even have a coating so no.


DSI reduces RCS. You should learn some research, instead of depending on some forum junks.

DSI over canard.

The frontal RCS of Gripen is obviously higher than one. I heard the Gripen can be detected at >100km
You can provide a link from SAAB that claims 1.

UNIT COST of an aircraft is for public consumption only

TOTAL LIFE CYCLE COST of an aircraft is what professionals r interested in.

Patchesagain:
He thinks DSI improves maneuverablity

It improves performance you dummy dummingo!

Performance, RCS and Weight. Must i always spoon feed you South-Africans?

iblawi:
He finished Henry with fault claims right?

Range and RCS he claimed the gripen has is funny not to talk of gripen detecting object with RCS of 0.1m2 120km away when Britain that sold the radar to Sweden never claim such on typhoon.

CAPTOR-E is only able to detect F-35 59km away and your junk fighter will detect similar object 120km away.
http://m.koreatimes.co/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=97236

You South Africans are really funny.

0.1 being detected at 100km means Gripen RCS is higher than that.

Henry240:
It improves performance you dummy dummingo!


Performance, RCS and Weight. Must i always spoon feed you South-Africans?

The increased performance is noted in top speed, Rate of climb, accerlastion extra extra but the performance increase is all ready taken in to account when the performance is listed. So how does this increase agility or anything more above what it all ready has

andrewza:
The increased performance is noted in top speed, Rate of climb, accerlastion extra extra but the performance increase is all ready taken in to account when the performance is listed. So how does this increase agility or anything more above what it all ready has

This is where you provide evidence to support your comment, that performance has been taken into account.

dsi is a function of top speed.


A combat jet inlet should provide an engine with high-quality airflow over a wide range of speeds, altitudes, and maneuvering conditions while accommodating the full range of engine airflow from idle to maximum military or afterburning power.

Jln. You can't have maneuverability, speed, stealth, etc in one aircraft and that doesn't make a plane obsolete.

F35 and f22 are good examples. DSI limits speed to mach two. There are more factors that limits an aircraft speed.

This is why the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D.


Jln115, listen to the classification of 2nd Generation jets by the PAC JF-17 program director.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HhuSmSE1vI

Henry240:
It improves performance you dummy dummingo!


Performance, RCS and Weight. Must i always spoon feed you South-Africans?

And yet the Gripen out performs (faster, climbs better, better payload) it and most likely has a smaller RCS

They do not improve maneuverablity as that is a question of flight surfaces

The killer to your argument is the Gripens higher G rating... Which they had to do because it can turn and climb harder and faster

Dude, give it up. You get what you pay for.

Henry240:
This is why the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D.


Jln115, listen to the classification of 2nd Generation jets by the PAC JF-17 program director.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HhuSmSE1vI

Lol - confirms it's 3rd gen

"Made to replace 2nd gen aircraft"

Henry240:
This is where you provide evidence to support your comment, that performance has been taken into account.

Says the guy who refuses to provide any evidence for anything he says ever.

nemesis2u:
UNIT COST of an aircraft is for public consumption only

TOTAL LIFE CYCLE COST of an aircraft is what professionals r interested in.

And the Gripens is the lowest

Henry240:
This is where you provide evidence to support your comment, that performance has been taken into account.

That it was built with it. When a sports car performance is rated they don't do so with out the turbo that comes with it as standard. Same here it was built with it so it does not increase any thing that it can do it allows it to do what it can do. Now you can all get back to your silly debate

Odunayaw:
I saw ur ignorance on range and I immediately felt sorry for your less privileged self

So with the sense u claim to have and Google as ur friend...u still don't know the fundamental definition and characteristics of a 4th gen jet

I mean are you guys not ashamed of yourselves!!!

I know what t means bro....Just quoting PAC