₦airaland Forum

Odunayaw:
[s]this idiot doesn't even know what a DSI means

Jeez dude...u put south African education to shame
U can insult the US for adding dsi to the f35 and the Chinese for the j10

First y'all compared to su-30mki..next f16 block 52

Mandela refused to cure y'all of inferiority complex

...your pants r down..now go wipe ur poo of ignorance[/s]

Random B.S...no need for me to respond!!

Odunayaw:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_jet_fighter

Read this and come back for a high school scholarship..I could throw in extra learning aids

Dullard!!

Nothing to do with the paragraph you quoted.....well done on not knowing what the hell i was talking about!

iblawi:
He finished Henry with fault claims right?

Range and RCS he claimed the gripen has is funny not to talk of gripen detecting object with RCS of 0.1m2 120km away when Britain that sold the radar to Sweden never claim such on typhoon.

CAPTOR-E is only able to detect F-35 59km away and your junk fighter will detect similar object 120km away.
http://m.koreatimes.co/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=97236

You South Africans are really funny.

The RCS of the F35 is 0.001M2 not 0.1m2 go back to school and learn your decimals before commenting!

tdayof:
Mr man DSI limits JF17 high speed just like the F35.

canard also increases RCS just like the J20 whose canard is being coated. Yours doesn't even have a coating so no.


DSI reduces RCS. You should learn some research, instead of depending on some forum junks.

DSI over canard.

The frontal RCS of Gripen is obviously higher than one. I heard the Gripen can be detected at >100km
You can provide a link from SAAB that claims 1.

Buddy the RCS of the Gripen C is 0.1m2( Ive provided sources on this forum multiple times), the EuroFighter 0.75m2 and Rafale 1m2 vs 3m2 for your Junk Fighter......Conclusion Canard>DSI

As i said before DSI does not= Magic

Henry240:
This is why the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D.


Jln115, listen to the classification of 2nd Generation jets by the PAC JF-17 program director.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HhuSmSE1vI

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2ndgen= Mig21, F5, Mirage111

3rdgen= F4, MirageF1, Mig23

Conclusion JF-17 = 3+gen as mentioned by PAC in an official document/Brochure posted here by @Agaugust last year!

jln115:
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2ndgen= Mig21, Mig23, F5, Mirage111

3rdgen= F4, MirageF1

Conclusion JF-17 = 3+gen as mentioned by PAC in an official document/Brochure posted here by @Agaugust last year!

Keep acting stupiid.

A plane that is to replace an F4 Phantom, F-5, MIG-23, Mirage and MIG-29 is what?

Henry240:
Keep acting stupiid.

A plane that is to replace an F4 Phantom, Mirage and MIG-29 is what?

3+ Gen and its not replacing the Mig29! Only Mig29s its replacing are the ones built in 1980 and those that have been mothballed!

jln115:
3+ Gen and its not replacing the Mig29!

look at this clown...... He says this up here, and say this down here

jln115:
Only Mig29s its replacing are the ones built in 1980 and those that have been mothballed!

Butthurt much... Lmao!

jln115:
The RCS of the F35 is 0.001M2 not 0.1m2 go back to school and learn your decimals before commenting!

Stop this nonsense or bring prove.

Gripen can't detect object with RCS as low as 0.1m2 120km away.

iblawi:
Stop this nonsense or bring prove.

Gripen can't detect object with RCS as low as 0.1m2 120km away.

Dude ive posted the sources multiple time, google the PS/05a mk4

Patchesagain:
And yet the Gripen out performs (faster, climbs better, better payload) it and most likely has a smaller RCS

They do not improve maneuverablity as that is a question of flight surfaces

The killer to your argument is the Gripens higher G rating... Which they had to do because it can turn and climb harder and faster

Dude, give it up. You get what you pay for.

No dufus, the Gripen does not out maneuver the JF-17. It's not even possible.


The fact is your Gripen according to SAAB is on the same level as the F-16 Block 40, when when all factors come into consideration, the Gripen is also lower than the JF-17.


So much for $65 million. What Mbeki did, was he got petrol and burnt $35 million per plane. To think it was all borrowed money makes it all the more sorrowful.

Henry240:
look at this clown...... He says this up here, and say this down here




Butthurt much... Lmao!

Buttehurt did you watch your own video?? he said "possibly" Mig29s..... and that would only be the JF-17 Block3

You can't possibly tell me the current JF-17 is better than the Mig29SMT

Patchesagain:
Lol - confirms it's 3rd gen

"Made to replace 2nd gen aircraft"

Which include F4, F5, Mirage, MIG-23, MIG-21.


I provided a comment of a PAC executive explicitly following the Chinese designation.

Patchesagain:
And the Gripens is the lowest

Yet, the SAAF struggles to put them in the air.

"Ironic much?". So what can the SAAF afford?

jln115:
Buttehurt did you watch your own video?? he said "possibly" Mig29s..... and that would only be the JF-17 Block3

You can't possibly tell me the current JF-17 is better than the Mig29SMT

I can tell you, the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D.


What generation is the MIG-29?

Henry240:
Which include F4, F5, Mirage, MIG-23, MIG-21.


I provided a comment of a PAC executive explicitly following the Chinese designation.

How?? the F5, Mirage 3, Mirage 5 and Mig 21 are 2rd Gen according to the traditional classification?

jln115:
Dude ive posted the sources multiple time, google the PS/05a mk4

You are really funny guy.

AWACs detection range for 1m2 is about 250-300km and you are telling me gripen detects 0.1m2 object 120km away. That's gripen will detect a small bird 120km away you must be drunk.

Henry240:
I can tell you, the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D.


What generation is the MIG-29?

- I can tell you its not

-Which version of the Mig 29?? they range from 3rdGen-4+Gen.....does that make the JF-17 a 5+Gen Aircraft according to your logic?

jln115:
How?? the F5, Mirage 3, Mirage 5 and Mig 21 are 2rd Gen according to the traditional classification?

The F-7 which is a MIG-21 is classified as a 3rd + Generation.

iblawi:
You are really funny guy.

AWACs detection range for 1m2 is about 250-300km and you are telling me gripen detects 0.1m2 object 120km away. That's gripen will detect a small bird 120km away you must be drunk.

Dude a small bird has an RCS of 0.01m2 not 0.1m2 as i said before learn your sh1t before commenting!!

jln115:
- I can tell you its not

-Which version of the Mig 29?? they range from 3rdGen-4+Gen.....does that make the JF-17 a 5+Gen Aircraft according to your logic?

All parameters considered, the JF-17 is a significantly better option.



So, the MIG-29 is now a 3rd Generation fighter jet. South-Africans would not kill me


A jet designed to compete against the F-16 is now a 3rd generation aircraft.


Is the SU-27 also 3rd Generation?

iblawi:
You are really funny guy.

AWACs detection range for 1m2 is about 250-300km and you are telling me gripen detects 0.1m2 object 120km away. That's gripen will detect a small bird 120km away you must be drunk.

Jln115 is truly a funny guy, this is what too much PAP does to a man.

Henry240:
The F-7 which is a MIG-21 is classified as a 3rd + Generation.

Mig21= second Gen bro....look it up

And now all of a sudden an F-7 is a mig21?? You and Agubugu literally had a fvcking fit when we said an F-7 is just a glorified Mig21!! I remember when Agubugu even mentioned that an F7 is a 3++ Gen Fighter!!

@jln115 (copied)
Here's a list of radar ranges for some popular fighters. I found it compiled on F-16.net (let me see who the author is):

APG-77 AESA (F-22A)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 35 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 112 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 200 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 300 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 355 km+


CAESAR AESA (EF-2000 Tranch3, post-2015 with 1,500 T/Rs)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 18~21 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 32~38 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 104~122 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 185~216 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 278~324 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 330~385 km+


APG-63 V2/V3/V4 AESA (F-15C/E/SG)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 14~19 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 25~33 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 81~104 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 144~185 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 215~278 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 255~330 km+


APG-81 AESA (F-35A/B/C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 28 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 160 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 240 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 285 km+


APG-79 AESA (F/A-18E/F and EA-18G, Block 2 and 3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 72 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 128 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 192 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 228 km+


CAPTOR (EF-2000 Tranch 1 and 2)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 12 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 70 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 124 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 185 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 220 km+


RBE-2 AESA (Rafale F4, post-2012)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11~13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20~23 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62~73 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165~195 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195~230 km+


APG-80 AESA (F-16E)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195 km+


NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+


APG-63 (F-15C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 51 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 135 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 160 km+


RBE-2 PESA (Rafale F1/F2/F3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+


APG-73 (F/A-18E/F, Block1)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 32~36 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 56~64 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 84~96 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 100~114 km+


PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+


APG-68 V9 (F-16 C/D/I and RDY-2 iM2000-5MK2 and -9)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 8~9 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 25~30 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 46~54 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 66~80 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 78~95 km+


RDY (M2000-5)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 7~8 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 22~27 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 40~47 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 60~70 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 70~84 km+


APG-68 V5 (F-16 C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 6~7 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 18~22 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 32~40 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 50~60 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 60~72 km+


APG-67 V4 (T-50)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 17~20 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 30~36 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 45~53 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 53~63 km+

jln115:
Mig21= second Gen bro....look it up

And now all of a sudden an F-7 is a mig21?? You and Agubugu literally had a fvcking fit when we said an F-7 is just a glorified Mig21!! I remember when Agubugu even mentioned that an F7 is a 3++ Gen Fighter!!

Offcourse the F-7 is a very much improved MIG-21, i only classified it same because i didn't want to get into the nitty-gritties of the jet.


An F-7 is a much more advanced machine, employing a hybrid control system, with 2 Multi-functional-Displays as well as analog equipment.

It is a 3++ Gen fighter for sure.

Henry240:
All parameters considered, the JF-17 is a significantly better option.



So, the MIG-29 is now a 3rd Generation fighter jet. South-Africans would not kill me


A jet designed to compete against the F-16 is now a 3rd generation aircraft.


Is the SU-27 also 3rd Generation?

-Yes except:Speed,Maneuverability,Climb rate,payload,G-load,wing-loading,RCS,takeoff distance,hard-points,HMS,HMD,Radar ect ect

-Yes the original Mig29 just like the Cheetah E was 3rd gen

-He said and i quote: "it can be compared to anything closer to the F16" thus he literally says the JF-17 can NOT compete with the F16!

Henry240:
Offcourse the F-7 is a very much improved MIG-21, i only classified it same because i didn't want to get into the nitty-gritties of the jet.


An F-7 is a much more advanced machine, employing a hybrid control system, with 2 Multi-functional-Displays as well as analog equipment.

It is a 3++ Gen fighter for sure.

Yes i know its much improved version of the Mig21

Its 3rd Gen that we can agree but not 3++ that classification would go to the JF17!

But the fact remains is that the Mig 21 is a second Gen Aircraft!

iblawi:
@jln115 (copied)
Here's a list of radar ranges for some popular fighters. I found it compiled on F-16.net (let me see who the author is):

APG-77 AESA (F-22A)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 35 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 112 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 200 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 300 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 355 km+


CAESAR AESA (EF-2000 Tranch3, post-2015 with 1,500 T/Rs)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 18~21 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 32~38 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 104~122 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 185~216 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 278~324 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 330~385 km+


APG-63 V2/V3/V4 AESA (F-15C/E/SG)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 14~19 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 25~33 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 81~104 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 144~185 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 215~278 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 255~330 km+


APG-81 AESA (F-35A/B/C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 28 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 160 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 240 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 285 km+


APG-79 AESA (F/A-18E/F and EA-18G, Block 2 and 3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 72 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 128 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 192 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 228 km+


CAPTOR (EF-2000 Tranch 1 and 2)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 12 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 70 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 124 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 185 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 220 km+


RBE-2 AESA (Rafale F4, post-2012)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11~13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20~23 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62~73 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165~195 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195~230 km+


APG-80 AESA (F-16E)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195 km+


NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+


APG-63 (F-15C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 51 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 135 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 160 km+


RBE-2 PESA (Rafale F1/F2/F3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+


APG-73 (F/A-18E/F, Block1)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 32~36 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 56~64 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 84~96 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 100~114 km+


PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+


APG-68 V9 (F-16 C/D/I and RDY-2 iM2000-5MK2 and -9)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 8~9 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 25~30 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 46~54 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 66~80 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 78~95 km+


RDY (M2000-5)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 7~8 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 22~27 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 40~47 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 60~70 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 70~84 km+


APG-68 V5 (F-16 C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 6~7 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 18~22 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 32~40 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 50~60 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 60~72 km+


APG-67 V4 (T-50)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 17~20 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 30~36 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 45~53 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 53~63 km+

Source? and BTW i can already tell you the Radar Ranges for the Gripen is incorrect! as for the others i don't know but your source already looks dodgey as fvck

jln115:
-Yes except:Speed,Maneuverability,Climb rate,payload,G-load,wing-loading,RCS,takeoff distance,hard-points,HMS,HMD,Radar ect ect

-Yes the original Mig29 just like the Cheetah E was 3rd gen

-He said and i quote: "it can be compared to anything closer to the F16" thus he literally says the JF-17 can NOT compete with the F16!

- All those to console yourself.


- So you're saying the Soviets built a 3rd gen jet to counter a 4th gen jet, am i getting you currently? That the MIG-29 and SU-27 are 3rd Gen?


- the JF-17 is a light weight jet, there's no basis for comparison with a medium weight F-16. I agree.

However SAAB does compare, an they compared the Gripen C/D to an F-16 Block 40. A jet built in 1980.



Oh yes, the JF-17 is better than the Gripen for sure. You paid $65 million for a JF-17 made in Europe.

.

jln115:
Yes i know its much improved version of the Mig21

Its 3rd Gen that we can agree but not 3++ that classification would go to the JF17!

But the fact remains is that the Mig 21 is a second Gen Aircraft!

The fact is, when all is considered, the JF-17 is much better than the Gripen.


You wasted $65million on a $25 million jet, now you are struggling to maintain it and butthurt at the same time.

Henry240:
- All those to console yourself.


- So you're saying the Soviets built a 3rd gen jet to counter a 4th gen jet, am i getting you currently? That the MIG-29 and SU-27 are 3rd Gen?


- the JF-17 is a light weight jet, there's no basis for comparison with a medium weight F-16. I agree.

However SAAB does compare, an they compared the Gripen C/D to an F-16 Block 40. A jet built in 1980.



Oh yes, the JF-17 is better than the Gripen for sure. You paid $65 million for a JF-17 made in Europe.

-Facts mate

-Now your contradicting yourself:

Henry240:
[s]All parameters considered, the JF-17 is a significantly better option.
[/s]


[s]So, the MIG-29 is now a 3rd Generation fighter jet. South-Africans would not kill me

[/s]
A jet designed to compete against the F-16 is now a 3rd generation aircraft.


Is the SU-27 also 3rd Generation?

- Yes just as the Cheetah E was classified as 3rd gen!