₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
The fact is, when all is considered, the JF-17 is much better than the Gripen.


You wasted $65million on a $25 million jet, now you are struggling to maintain it and butthurt at the same time.

hahahaha this is your response...I at least expected something like, "the Mig 21 is 3rd gen and JF17 is thus 4th Gen" or something like that

jln115:
hahahaha this is your response...I at least expected something like, "the Mig 21 is 3rd gen and JF17 is thus 4th Gen" or something like that

My response has always being that the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D. Nothing has changed.

Henry240:
My response has always being that the JF-17 is better than the Gripen C/D. Nothing has changed.

How?

jln115:
How?

We are done.

iblawi:
@jln115 (copied)
Here's a list of radar ranges for some popular fighters. I found it compiled on F-16.net (let me see who the author is):

APG-77 AESA (F-22A)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 35 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 112 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 200 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 300 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 355 km+


CAESAR AESA (EF-2000 Tranch3, post-2015 with 1,500 T/Rs)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 18~21 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 32~38 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 104~122 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 185~216 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 278~324 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 330~385 km+


APG-63 V2/V3/V4 AESA (F-15C/E/SG)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 14~19 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 25~33 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 81~104 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 144~185 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 215~278 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 255~330 km+


APG-81 AESA (F-35A/B/C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 28 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 160 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 240 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 285 km+


APG-79 AESA (F/A-18E/F and EA-18G, Block 2 and 3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 72 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 128 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 192 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 228 km+


CAPTOR (EF-2000 Tranch 1 and 2)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 12 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 70 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 124 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 185 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 220 km+


RBE-2 AESA (Rafale F4, post-2012)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11~13 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20~23 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62~73 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165~195 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195~230 km+


APG-80 AESA (F-16E)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 195 km+


NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+


APG-63 (F-15C)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 16 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 51 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 90 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 135 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 160 km+


RBE-2 PESA (Rafale F1/F2/F3)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+


APG-73 (F/A-18E/F, Block1)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 32~36 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 56~64 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 84~96 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 100~114 km+


PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+


APG-68 V9 (F-16 C/D/I and RDY-2 iM2000-5MK2 and -9)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 8~9 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 25~30 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 46~54 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 66~80 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 78~95 km+


RDY (M2000-5)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 4~5 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 7~8 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 22~27 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 40~47 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 60~70 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 70~84 km+


APG-68 V5 (F-16 C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 6~7 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 18~22 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 32~40 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 50~60 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 60~72 km+


APG-67 V4 (T-50)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 3~4 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 17~20 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 30~36 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 45~53 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 53~63 km+

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha you copied it from a forum!!! No wonder the the ranges are incorrect......in to the trash it goes!

jln115:
Buddy the RCS of the Gripen C is 0.1m2( Ive provided sources on this forum multiple times), the EuroFighter 0.75m2 and Rafale 1m2 vs 3m2 for your Junk Fighter......Conclusion Canard>DSI

As i said before DSI does not= Magic

Bro 0.1 still being detected at 100km is shit. Bring me a source from SAAB not a forum.

What the hell? I won't take 0.1. Keep your opinion sef.. In fact the Gripen RCS is 0.00001. Bullshiit. 0.1 and still be found at 100km.

In stealth, canard is a NO No as it will compromise stealth as seen from the J20. Frontal stealth.
DSI increases stealth so enough of your canard >dsi

Henry240:
We are done.

We should've been done ages ago!

Chinese J-20

jln115:
Source? and BTW i can already tell you the Radar Ranges for the Gripen is incorrect! as for the others i don't know but your source already looks dodgey as fvck

PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+

This is the spec for your Gripen with 120km detection range. While the one below is for the more advanced radar option from 2013.


NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+

jln115:
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha you copied it from a forum!!! No wonder the the ranges are incorrect......in to the trash it goes!

Your maximum detection range is 120km and you believe it will detect 0.1m2 object at it maximum detection range. You are really pathetic.

iblawi:
Your maximum detection range is 120km and you believe it will detect 0.1m2 object at it maximum detection range. You are really pathetic.

He will always find a way to counter whatever you type and argue that it's right.

tdayof:
Bro 0.1 still bring detected at 100km is shit. Bring me a source from SAAB not a forum.

What the hell? I won't take 0.1. Keep your opinion sef.. In fact the Gripen RCS is 0.00001. Bullshiit. 0.1 and still be found at 100km.

In stealth, canard is a NO No as it will compromise stealth as seen from the J20. Frontal stealth.
DSI increases stealth so enough of yiur canard>stealth shit.

Dude:

130 km for RCS of 5 m2 (V1), or
110 km (for RCS of 3 m2) (V2), or
140-150 km for RCS of 5 m2 (V2)
Look-down: >35 km (for RCS of 3 m2) (V1)
https://web.archive.org/web/20121028055642/http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/KLJ-710-Fire-Control-Radar-FCR-China.html

PS/05a mk3 range 120km for an object 4m2 in size

PS/05a mk3(upgraded) 120km for an Object 0.4m2 in size

PS/05a mk4 range 120km for an Object 0.1m2 in size

http://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/aeronautics/gripen/ps_05_a_fighter_radar_brochure.pdf


And lastly i posted sources from accredited military experts regarding the RCS of the Gripen on this forum several times!
And NO the Gripen rcs is NOT 0.00001m2!! were the fvck did you come up with that?

iblawi:
PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+

This is the spec for your Gripen with 120km detection range. While the one below is for the more advanced radar option from 2013.


NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+

Source motherfvcker!! and again your ranges are incorrect!! how can the detection range be 120km according to you yet in your same source it can detect a fighter at 165kms

Henry240:
Chinese J-20

Like to see how it compares to the F35/F22.....definitely more beautiful though!!

tdayof:
He will always find a way to counter whatever you type and argue that it's right.

Am even tired of the guy sef.

Am done.

iblawi:
Am even tired of the guy sef.

Am done.

Your done??Good!! any person providing Forums as sources should never be allowed to debate anything ever again!

And if you haven't noticed ive provided sources from both SAAB and Janes!

jln115:
Like to see how it compares to the F35.....definitely more beautiful though!!

I agree, it's a very beautiful plane. However, although ignorance, i usually seem to think that because of it's size it won't be as aerodynamic as the F-35.


I find the F-35 to be quite ugly, when compared to the F-22, it just doesn't seem like it's the same company that made both planes.

Henry240:
I agree, it's a very beautiful plane. However, although ignorance, i usually seem to think that because of it's size it won't be as aerodynamic as the F-35.


I find the F-35 to be quite ugly, when compared to the F-22, it just doesn't seem like it's the same company that made both planes.

I dont know?? the F35 just looks Fat and lethargic the J20 looks like a mash up between an F22 and the J10, the canards should help with maneuverability.

But we should actually be comparing the J20 to the F22 and not the F35!! Both the J20 and F22 were built to be air superiority fighters....it would be better to compare the j31 to the F35 both are equally ugly as well!!

LCA Tejas


This is another plane which is expected to do well went it finally enters serial production.

jln115:
Your done??Good!! any person providing Forums as sources should never be allowed to debate anything ever again!

And if you haven't noticed ive provided sources from both SAAB and Janes!

Are you drunk or something?

In what way is what I posted different from what you gave?

Post-2013

NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+

Look at the pic again it seems you have problems with interpretation of graphical representation.
If you are blind it was well stated in your source that 2014. Which gripen was dilevered to South Africa in 2014+?

This is your own spec MK3 pre-2013.

PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+

jln115:
Dude:

130 km for RCS of 5 m2 (V1), or
110 km (for RCS of 3 m2) (V2), or
140-150 km for RCS of 5 m2 (V2)
Look-down: >35 km (for RCS of 3 m2) (V1)
https://web.archive.org/web/20121028055642/http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/KLJ-710-Fire-Control-Radar-FCR-China.html

PS/05a mk3 range 120km for an object 4m2 in size

PS/05a mk3(upgraded) 120km for an Object 0.4m2 in size

PS/05a mk4 range 120km for an Object 0.1m2 in size

http://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/aeronautics/gripen/ps_05_a_fighter_radar_brochure.pdf


And lastly i posted sources from accredited military experts regarding the RCS of the Gripen on this forum several times!
And NO the Gripen rcs is NOT 0.00001m2!! were the fvck did you come up with that?

From what you posted we can deduce that upgraded mk3 radar came much later (2014+) when South Africa have received all their gripen jets.

While you have old mk3 radar which can detect 4m2 at 130km.

So tell us how you got 0.1m2 at 120km because even the upgraded version didn't even claim such.

PAK-FA T-50.


There's a massive information pool of the T-50 in this link. I think we can all read it and enjoy.


http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/sukhoi-pak-fa-and-fgfa-fifth-generation-fighter-aircraft.8276/page-232

.

iblawi:
From what you posted we can deduce that upgraded mk3 radar came much later (2014+) when South Africa have received all their gripen jets.

While you have old mk3 radar which can detect 4m2 at 130km.

So tell us how you got 0.1m2 at 120km because even the upgraded version didn't even claim such.

They wished it into existence.


Maybe if we wish hard enough, we could get the Rafale. I love this jet!

@Jln115, Iblawi has taken you to the cleaners.



Now, you're done bro.

iblawi:
Are you drunk or something?

In what way is what I posted different from what you gave?

Post-2013

NOAR AESA (JAS-39 C/D PLUS, post-2013)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 10~11 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 18~20 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 56~62 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 100~110 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 150~165 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 178~195 km+

Look at the pic again it seems you have problems with interpretation of graphical representation.
If you are blind it was well stated in your source that 2014. Which gripen was dilevered to South Africa in 2014+?

This is your own spec MK3 pre-2013.

PS-05A (JAS-39 A/B/C/D)

For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 5~6 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 9~10 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 27~32 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 48~56 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 72~84 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 85~100 km+

Source dude!!!! because according to SAAB these numbers are wrong!!

iblawi:
From what you posted we can deduce that upgraded mk3 radar came much later (2014+) when South Africa have received all their gripen jets.

While you have old mk3 radar which can detect 4m2 at 130km.

So tell us how you got 0.1m2 at 120km because even the upgraded version didn't even claim such.

Dude the mk3 upgrade was a software upgrade which we got, the Mk4 will only be available from 2017, and if you read the source you would've seen its 120km for an object the size of 4m2 not 130km and with the new mk4 its 0.1m2 at 120km and with the upgraded mk3 its 0.4m2 at 120km

lastly what does this have to do with South Africa?? this is a Gripen vs JF17 debate

Henry240:
@Jln115, Iblawi has taken you to the cleaners.



Now, you're done bro.

Taken me to the cleaners with his forum??

jln115:
Taken me to the cleaners with his forum??

Take a look at the T-50. It seems to me like an SU-35 covered in stealth coating.

jln115:
lastly what does this have to do with South Africa?? this is a Gripen vs JF17 debate

It is a Gripen vs the F-16. However you South-Africans managed to drag the JF-17 and Nigeria into it. It's obvious you Saffers are obsessed with Nigeria(Nigerians).

Henry240:
It is a Gripen vs the F-16. However you South-Africans managed to drag the JF-17 and Nigeria into it. It's obvious you Saffers are obsessed with Nigeria(Nigerians).

Either way the Gripen is better than the F16 as well!

jln115:
Source dude!!!! because according to SAAB these numbers are wrong!!

Use your source it's coming directly from saab. 0.1m2 is still in view. Which source will be more appealing than what you believe in.