₦airaland Forum

The beauty of the Cranked Double Delta Planform

LCA MK1 uses MMR - Multi Mode Radar ( Isreali EL/M-2032 ) It is an advanced pulse Doppler, multimode planar array fire-control radar which has a maximum range of around 150 km. HAL has also integrated the Israeli Derby and Python air-to-air missiles, and a data link that digitally interconnects between all the hardware elements.

LCA MK1A will use AESA - Active Electronically Scanned Array radar( Israeli EL/M-2052 ). The EL/M-2052 is based on a fully solid-state active phased array technology which has a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging.

LCA has been inducted into operational service , with 3 initial aircraft's, rest will follow.

initial orders 20 LCA MK1 and 80 LCA MK1A

aiirforce LCA with python 5

nemesis2u:
lol dont mind me , it was very entertaining
continue as long u all want just dont get personal

i was pissed off at one person only who posted national disputes in the thread , but now i dont care

everything is moah and maya (earthly trappings and illusion)

if the web servers become irreversibly corrupt , everything is lost , why lose peace of mind over something so vulnerable as a web server.

spirituality does have its uses lol

You are rambling, i don't see how that's a good thing.

LCA airforce
LCA airforce trainer

nemesis2u:
LCA pilots use Israeli dash HMDS

The LCA would turn out to be a fantastic light multi-role jet. I just haven't quite followed this program. How many types are there?

- I read it uses an AESA radar from Israel, is this correct?

- Hardpoints, how many?

nemesis2u:
LCA airforce
LCA airforce trainer

Radar question already answered. The LCA is very adequate to fill the MIG-21 bison role.

Henry240:
The LCA would turn out to be a fantastic light multi-role jet. I just haven't quite followed this program. How many types are there?

- I read it uses an AESA radar from Israel, is this correct?

- Hardpoints, how many?

LCA MK1 airforce version
LCA MK1 airforce trainer version
LCA MK1 naval version (sports LEVCONS , different landing gear , tail hook etc)
LCA MK1 naval trainer version (sports LEVCONS , different landing gear , tail hook etc)

LCA MK1A airforce version in development
LCA MK1A airforce trainer version in development


LCA MK2 naval version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development
LCA MK2 naval trainer version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development
LCA MK2 airforce version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development (?)
LCA MK2 airforce trainer version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development (?)

total 4 + 2 + 2 + 2(?) versions

LCA MK1 has been inducted in service with hybrid MMR - Multi Mode Radar ( Isreali EL/M-2032 ) front end Israeli back end Indian. It features look-up/look-down/shoot-down modes, low/medium/high pulse repetition frequencies (PRF), platform motion compensation, doppler beam-sharpening, moving target indication(MTI), Doppler filtering, constant false alarm rate (CFAR) detection, range-Doppler ambiguity resolution, scan conversion, and online diagnostics to identify faulty processor modules.Range 150 km.


LCA MK1A has been ordered with AESA, it will use a co developed version of Israeli EL/M-2052. range unknown.The EL/M-2052 is based on a fully solid-state active phased array technology which has a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging.


hardpoints 8

Tejas has a pure double delta wing configuration, with no tailplanes or canard, and a single dorsal fin. It integrates technologies such as relaxed static stability, fly-by-wire flight control system, multi-mode radar, integrated digital avionics system, composite material structures, and a flat rated engine.
It is the smallest and lightest in its class of contemporary supersonic combat aircraft. it is a small tailless delta winged machine with relaxed static stability (RSS) and control-configuration for enhanced manoeuvrability. it is equipped with a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system to ease pilot handling.
The Tejas employs C-FC carbon fiber composite materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight.

etc etc

its air to air weapons are
1.python 4 tested
2.python 5 pending
3.derby tested
4.i-derby pending
5.R73E tested
6.astra mk1 pending

LCA development took off in real starting 1987-89 on wards , many people deliberately or from ignorance mislead with wrong figures . funds were released during this period only.

Tejas requires a very short runway less than 500 metres

only aircraft in airforce capable of hot refuelling.

he CSIO-developed HUD, Elbit-furnished DASH helmet-mounted display and sight (HMDS), and hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS) controls reduce pilot workload and increase situation awareness by allowing access to navigation and weapon-aiming information with minimal need to spend time "head down" in the cockpit.

LCA MK1 / A uses F404-GE-IN20 engine
LCA MK2 uses General Electric F414-GE-INS6

nemesis2u:
LCA MK1 airforce version
LCA MK1 airforce trainer version
LCA MK1 naval version (sports LEVCONS , different landing gear , tail hook etc)
LCA MK1 naval trainer version (sports LEVCONS , different landing gear , tail hook etc)

LCA MK1A airforce version in development
LCA MK1A airforce trainer version in development


LCA MK2 naval version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development
LCA MK2 naval trainer version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development
LCA MK2 airforce version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development
LCA MK2 airforce trainer version with more powerful engines and increased capability is in development

total 4 + 2 + 4 versions

LCA MK1 has been inducted in service with hybrid MMR - Multi Mode Radar ( Isreali EL/M-2032 ) front end Israeli back end Indian. It features look-up/look-down/shoot-down modes, low/medium/high pulse repetition frequencies (PRF), platform motion compensation, doppler beam-sharpening, moving target indication(MTI), Doppler filtering, constant false alarm rate (CFAR) detection, range-Doppler ambiguity resolution, scan conversion, and online diagnostics to identify faulty processor modules.Range 150 km.


LCA MK1A has been ordered with AESA, it will use a co developed version of Israeli EL/M-2052. range unknown.The EL/M-2052 is based on a fully solid-state active phased array technology which has a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. In Air-to-ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging.


hardpoints 8

Tejas has a pure double delta wing configuration, with no tailplanes or canard, and a single dorsal fin. It integrates technologies such as relaxed static stability, fly-by-wire flight control system, multi-mode radar, integrated digital avionics system, composite material structures, and a flat rated engine.
It is the smallest and lightest in its class of contemporary supersonic combat aircraft. it is a small tailless delta winged machine with relaxed static stability (RSS) and control-configuration for enhanced manoeuvrability. it is equipped with a quadruplex digital fly-by-wire flight control system to ease pilot handling.
The Tejas employs C-FC carbon fiber composite materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight.

etc etc

its air to air weapons are
1.python 4 tested
2.python 5 pending
3.derby tested
4.i-derby pending
5.R73E tested
6.astra mk1 pending

Even the Tejas have many features that wil make 1 prefer it to Gripen C/D (the western baby).

iblawi:
Even the Tejas have many features that wil make 1 prefer it to Gripen C/D (the western baby).

aircraft significance is not much , real significance is the technology incubation centers /labs etc that was established numbering more than 200 which makes India one of the few countries after america ,EU , russia, china , sweden , south korea , japan who can now independently design advance fighter planes .

the engine development was giving problem but it will be restarted with french hand holding in the troubled section.

gripen c/d is better than LCA MK1 ,
but LCA MK1 should give a good fight , many times it will boil down to tactics and pilot skill. it is very difficult to compare aircraft's of the same category without verifiable actual user data.

still gripen c/d wins against LCA MK1 , but i wont mind being proved wrong in real life, which i doubt will never happen as chances of south africa and india going to war is a big zero
maybe a friendly fight in test ranges
but i will place my bet on gripen lol

Henry240:
Radar question already answered. The LCA is very adequate to fill the MIG-21 bison role.

it was to fill in the role of bisons but will end up as a swing role aircraft exceeding bison capabilities by a long long distance.
it had a troubled journey because of the complex technologies involved and too ambitious goals and lack of funding / political support and nuclear blasts

nemesis2u:
it was to fill in the role of bisons but will end up as a swing role aircraft exceeding bison capabilities by a long long distance.
it had a troubled journey because of the complex technologies involved and too ambitious goals and lack of funding / political support and nuclear blasts

This is not in doubt, I should have said well surpassed what the Bisons offers. Although to be fair, the Bisons are also very fantastic light multirole jets, even against todays 4 gen platforms.


Indian bureaucracy also plaid an undermining role.

iblawi:
Even the Tejas have many features that wil make 1 prefer it to Gripen C/D (the western baby).

The MK1A well surpasses the Gripen. I wonder how the Pakistanis would respond.


The Gripen is just a pampered plane that should ordinarily not cost more than half it's current value. I was reading the RAND report on Gripen operations in Libya as against those conducted by F-16s, F-15s and Tornados, i couldn't phantom what the hullabola about the plane is. Granted it carried out 30% of all ISR mission, but that was the job of the RECON pod it carried, not the plane itself. A western plane which was having compatibility issues with other western planes.

Henry240:
Indian bureaucracy also plaid an undermining role.

bureaucracy anywhere is like a DONKEY

its performance depends on the intentions / capability of the DONKEY RIDER (politicians)

modi took right decisions which previous govts in 15 years could not do

nemesis2u:
aircraft significance is not much , real significance is the technology incubation centers /labs etc that was established numbering more than 200 which makes India one of the few countries after america ,EU , russia, china , sweden , south korea , japan who can now independently design advance fighter planes .

the engine development was giving problem but it will be restarted with french hand holding in the troubled section.

gripen c/d is better than LCA MK1 ,
but LCA MK1 should give a good fight , many times it will boil down to tactics and pilot skill. it is very difficult to compare aircraft's of the same category without verifiable actual user data.

still gripen c/d wins against LCA MK1 , but i wont mind being proved wrong in real life, which i doubt will never happen as chances of south africa and india going to war is a big zero
maybe a friendly fight in test ranges
but i will place my bet on gripen lol

I have no doubt in my mind, the LCA MK1 would defeat the Gripen. I'm talking about European piloted Gripen C/D, not even South-Africa. Beautiful plane, in performance, however, i find the LCA to be quite ugly aesthetically.

beauty killls correct
but in case of weapons, capability and potency kills

gripen jf17 look better but i will disagree
everything rests in the eye of the beholder

on a funny note i have observed 99% of the guys here being influenced by their dicks (looks etc)when it comes to weapons

plz dont take offence , because none was intended
could not help posting it.

Henry240:
The MK1A well surpasses the Gripen. I wonder how the Pakistanis would respond.


The Gripen is just a pampered plane that should ordinarily not cost more than half it's current value. I was reading the RAND report on Gripen operations in Libya as against those conducted by F-16s, F-15s and Tornados, i couldn't phantom what the hullabola about the plane is. Granted it carried out 30% of all ISR mission, but that was the job of the RECON pod it carried, not the plane itself. A western plane which was having compatibility issues with other western planes.

Tejas and Jf17 thunder are nice fighters still under development. They have the similar goals but following different developmental procedures. They will definitely put up a good fight against other light fighter jets in their category like gripen and MI29 within a very short time with lower maintenance cost.

Am happy seeing this development from Asia but I wish it was coming from Africa.

iblawi:
They have the similar goals but following different developmental procedures.

good observation , but ignored by most

nemesis2u:
beauty killls correct
but in case of weapons, capability and potency kills

gripen jf17 look better but i will disagree
everything rests in the eye of the beholder

on a funny note i have observed 99% of the guys here being influenced by their dicks (looks etc)when it comes to weapons

plz dont take offence , because none was intended
could not help posting it.

Nobody apart from the Company or Air force who fly these planes know the actual technical details of these equipment. Aesthetics is available for all to see, hence our love for that "ass".


In terms of beauty, the Gripen is right there with the Rafale, F-22, T-50, J-10, F-16 Block 52 and above, SU-30, especially the SU-30sm and SU-35. The Eurofighter is beautiful in the air, not so much on the ground.


The JF-17, F/A-18, F-16, MIG-29 are average looking.


The Tejas, Harrier, F-7/MIG-21, Mirage are quite ugly.



It may be mundane to compare looks, but that's just my opinion.

Henry240:
I have no doubt in my mind, the LCA MK1 would defeat the Gripen. I'm talking about European piloted Gripen C/D, not even South-Africa. Beautiful plane, in performance, however, i find the LCA to be quite ugly aesthetically.

So you want to start again?

Ok let see:

The Gripen is Faster, has a better climb rate, higher G load, Longer range, better radar , lower rcs, better hmd , better hms ect ect ect the Tejas was built to rival the JF17 not the Gripen.

And btw before you think about bashing South African pilots....how about you go and check how our pilots fared at Lion Effort!

nemesis2u:
good observation , but ignored by most

Yes the Indians were more patient and incorporating most needed features before releasing MK1 while Pakistani were taking over Market with block 1 first and incremental development followed.

At the end of the day they will be very similar in terms of capabilities.

iblawi:
Tejas and Jf17 thunder are nice fighters still under development. They have the similar goals but following different developmental procedures. They will definitely put up a good fight against other light fighter jets in their category like gripen and MI29 within a very short time with lower maintenance cost.

Am happy seeing this development from Asia but I wish it was coming from Africa.

The latest variants of both the Gripen and MIG-29 simply leave them in the dust at the moment. It is hard to see how they would compete on the technical specifications of what both the Gripen NG and MIG-35 are offering.


The Pakistanis and Indians are sure proud of both their planes, however the growth of the Aeronautical industries of both countries have the potential to ripple down to Africa. I'm sure of this.


Another country in Asia i look at quite a lot is Indonesia, they got a massive shipbuilding industry. I spend a lot of time looking at KCR-60 (60 meters missile vessel) built by PT PAL of Indonesia. They also are responsible for building 2 Strategic Sealift Vessels for the Philippines navy.


Damen Sigma Frigates for the Indonesia navy are also built by PT PAL. The also have an advanced aeronautical industry, building maritime patrol aircrafts and helicopters. However it is the shipbuilding i am more interested in. This because it is where i think Nigerians have the most potential for growth, with West African Shipyards, Nigerdock shipbuilding, Dormanlong shipbuilding and Naval Engineering Services Ltd, this is where we have the most infrastructure and potential for growth. We could start by copying the KCR-60 and then build from there.

jln115:
So you want to start again?

Ok let see:

The Gripen is Faster, has a better climb rate, higher G load, Longer range, better radar , lower rcs, better hmd , better hms ect ect ect the Tejas was built to rival the JF17 not the Gripen.

And btw before you think about bashing South African pilots....how about you go and check how our pilots fared at Red Lion!

Gripens, JF17 thunder and Tejas are all light multi-role fighters with similar capabilities. The only difference is that Tejas and Jf17 thunder are still under development and when completed, they will be competing with Gripen E/F not Gripen C/D.

The existing versions are already comparable to Gripen C/D.

nemesis2u:
bureaucracy anywhere is like a DONKEY

its performance depends on the intentions / capability of the DONKEY RIDER (politicians)

modi took right decisions which previous govts in 15 years could not do

Make in India Campaign?

jln115:
So you want to start again?

Ok let see:

The Gripen is Faster, has a better climb rate, higher G load, Longer range, better radar , lower rcs, better hmd , better hms ect ect ect the Tejas was built to rival the JF17 not the Gripen.

And btw before you think about bashing South African pilots....how about you go and check how our pilots fared at Red Lion!

South-African butt-hurt.

nemesis2u:
the Sri Lankans also used transport aircraft's to carpet bomb rebel positions . not many know this, in modern times it was the Sri Lankans who pioneered the usage of barrel bombs. i am sure the Assad guys got inspired by the Sri Lankans.

anyways coming to topic,

lets say "low tech may be the new high tech"

the COIN optimized light-attack turboprops are cheap both to build and to fly. turboprops can use roads and fields for takeoff and landing. Maintaining turboprops, is easy in fact too easy and can be done anywhere without the need for specialized equipment's. the turboprops also have good endurance, some can stay aloft for 10 hours.

the turboprops can carry a formidable weapons load for example Air Tractor AT-802U can carry six 225kg precision-guided bombs and more than 2,000kg of missiles, rockets and ammunition for two 50-calibre machine guns.

inclusion of electro-optical suite gives them the added advantage of being able to carry out persistence surveillance in addition to carrying out pin point strikes.

you must have heard of the OODA loop
Observe
Orient
Decide
Act

these turboprops are fully outfitted to
Observe ( via the olectro-optical sensors etc )
Orient ( good low speed maneuverability , good handling qualities etc for effective strafing runs etc )
Decide ( comms to network with other platforms, perform live feeds, man in the loop advantage etc )
Act ( fire away to glory )


also another thing is you can outfit turboprops with hailers (loud speakers) , these has its advantage ,one of them is if you see a group of civilians moving towards a impending strike zone , you can make a low pass and call them out to turn back etc.

if you recall the STUKAS from WW2 , they had sirens fitted to them , just before a dive attack they would turn it on , was said to be very effective .
i am genuinely interested to try it out on BH, al sabah , imagine play out a continuous deafening, hair raising crescendo via the hailers while carrying out strafing runs on them.

i will bet a penny many at the receiving end will have loose bowels before meeting their maker. cheap psychological warfare one o one

what i find disappointing is the lack of interest, Africa is in dire needs of a COIN optimized turboprop , surely the numbers required are huge , whats stopped them from building one or even get an older frame and reverse engineering it to a capable modern avatar or even acquiring a air-frame and outfitting it with necessary equipment's.

south Africa have one (arhlac) , but it is still in trial (i could be wrong here), if this aircraft was operational 10 years ago , you would have seen it in large numbers, provided alternate systems/parts were there to replace the US systems/parts.

again many air-force fear that buying these turboprops will eat away the funds earmarked for other strategic acquisition or at least delay the said acquisition by a number of years. one of the reasons why we see hesitancy for acquisition of turboprops.
cant really blame them, politicians are stingy when it comes to allocating funds for defense acquisitions.

Firstly,if you're reading this;please come back! This place needs one more mature intelligent poster! The bolded bit is why sometimes I weep at the combined continental opportunity cost of missed opportunities.

chinese8107:
@kikuyu1

Powered hang glider

Powered paraglider

risky though

These toys have nothing at all to do with this thread!

iblawi:
Gripens, JF17 thunder and Tejas are all light multi-role fighters with similar capabilities. The only difference is that Tejas and Jf17 thunder are still under development and when completed, they will be competing with Gripen E/F not Gripen C/D.

The existing versions are already comparable to Gripen C/D.

Are you ret@rded dude??

The Gripen C/D in all way, shape and form out preforms the JF17 and Tejas, in fact WVR the Gripen is thee best fighter in the world, it has the highest sustained and instantaneous turn rate of any fighter, a G load of +9/-4 which is more than any fighter , AoA which is higher than that of any fighter.....Couple that with either the A-Darter or Iris T 5th gen WVRAAM!

BVR: Gripen C/D has the lowest RCS of any non Stealth Fighter, the PS/05a mk3/4 can detect a 0.4/0.1m2 target at 120km, its armed with thee most deadly BVRAAM is the world namely the Meteor!

Yet you want to compare it with the Junk Fighter?

Henry240:
South-African butt-hurt.

So pointing out the facts makes me butt-hurt? Cool Story!!

jln115:
So pointing out the facts makes me butt-hurt? Cool Story!!

I would try to continue to be the man cause of South-African pain and frustration.

Henry240:
I would try to continue to be the man cause of South-African pain and frustration.

Ignoring your sh1tty post!! I am still waiting on your answer of when and were SAAB compared the Gripen C/D to the F16 block40