₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
Brother FriendChoice, why you have right to post this, I do respect your view and all that but.......

You have to understand that it is Ijma that Shi'a are Muslims. Clear evidence is their participation in Haj.

My understanding is, only Muslims can perform Haj or allow to perform Haj.

It is too late now to come up with fictitious fatwa declaring Shi'a to be Kufar.

What needs to be done is, if a Muslim is doing something despicable, we are to correct him.

To correct him is to do so with utmost respect and mutual understanding without shouting at each other's throat.

I am not naive of Shi'i's creed or some of their practices. We can't even dust off all of them with one brush.

I am not here to defend Shi'i but to tell you there are some things that are quiet false attributed to them or somehow inserted in their literature.

Even Hadith that speaks of 70000 Jews of Isfahan is very careful not to lump all of them. The hadith is simply speaking of Jews who will masquerade themselves in Muslim clothing in ahkir zaman.

This means a time will come in the future (perhaps now), some people from Iran who will be pro-zionists or certain people in his administration. But definitely NOT ALL Shi'i.

Quiet frankly, their last administration was a true Muslim (Dinajed) who was firmed. But I dont know of this one. Seems to compromised somehow.

Even as crazy as Faisal (Jamaican preacher) was, he never criticized ALL Shi'a. He tried to pinpoint

In conclusion, this is not the way forward man. It will continue breeding hatred over and over. Same goes to Shi'i who are hell-bent causing sectarian trash.

But I am not oppose to sectarian dialogue with mutual respect.

Hope you get my point

walaikum salaam.

I get your point, but I need you to point out a single place where you think it's false. Our difference with Jews and some Christians is Not God but prophet of Islam. Shi'a indirectly don't believe in prophet Muhammad pbuh. Perchance I believe you live in southern Nigeria. Your knowledge of Shi'a is still young. Shi'a have made their leaders houses here in Nigeria as a form of Idol worship.

Muslim is not by going to Hajj, Muslim is not by names Muhammad, Yusuf and Zainab and etc. Shia don't go to hajj 4 pilgrimage but for their leaders who have died. Allow them to relocate those graves to Karbala and see.

When you have clearly seen in my post about what they said on temporary marriage for sex only. Type those hadith in Google if you think I open this thread for play. Those 12 Imams are superior or at the same rank with prophets of Allah (SWT).
Who are you waiting to tell you these peoples are non Muslims and are enemies of Islam. Go for research first b4 u argue.

Between We Muslims and Shi'a there is nothing but curse of Allah except if they repent.


"Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al- Bukharee, Muslim]. And he said, "WHOEVER ABUSES MY COMPANIONS, UPON THEM IS THE CURSE OF ALLAH, THE ANGELS AND ALL THE PEOPLE" [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee].

I better preach to a Christian than Shi'a. Its waste of Energy, the hadith you will bring, most of them they don't believe in them.

Let there be no doubt, for anyone who has no shame in calling the pious wives of the prophet peace be upon him prostitute (A'uzubilla), we will also have no remorse in publicly declaring them as infidel.


https://www.nairaland.com/3071287/discussing-reality-crisis-between-shia view this one, it has more proofs than mine.

Well whenever scholars of Ahlus sunnah are asked that are shia kuffar, they are not in a haste to declare All of them kuffar....

But as far as a shia negates what has been confirmed by the Qur'an and the sunnah, he is a kafir, the Quran is complete, the Quran said Allaah is pleased with the companions, Allaah said he alone has sovereignty over all things and has no partner in that.

Shias are allowed to go for hajj because sunni ulama dont see all Shi'a as kuffar.

lexiconkabir:
Well whenever scholars of Ahlus sunnah are asked that are shia kuffar, they are not in a haste to declare All of them kuffar....

But as far as a shia negates what has been confirmed by the Qur'an and the sunnah, he is a kafir, the Quran is complete, the Quran said Allaah is pleased with the companions, Allaah said he alone has sovereignty over all things and has no partner in that.

I found another interesting one written by sino, I urge you to read in the following link below on how shia are having problems with the holy book itself.

https://www.nairaland.com/3071287/discussing-reality-crisis-between-shia

Why so much hatred for Shia's/Shi'ism.

When you talk negative about something there will be figments in the approach/presentation.

tintingz:
Why so much hatred for Shia's/Shi'ism.

When you talk negative about something there will be figments in the approach/presentation.

Our hate and curse is for those who hate the Companions of Muhammad peace be upon him. Our love is for who loves Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his entire household without exception. This is who we are. We are not Hippocrates.


"Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al- Bukharee, Muslim]. And he said, "WHOEVER ABUSES MY COMPANIONS, UPON THEM IS THE CURSE OF ALLAH, THE ANGELS AND ALL THE PEOPLE" [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee].

FriendChoice:
Our hate and curse is for those who hate the Companions of Muhammad peace be upon him. Our love is for who loves Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his entire household without exception. [s]This is who we are. We are not Hippocrates.[/s]


"Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al- Bukharee, Muslim]. And he said, "WHOEVER ABUSES MY COMPANIONS, UPON THEM IS THE CURSE OF ALLAH, THE ANGELS AND ALL THE PEOPLE" [Saheeh, At-Tabaranee].

Are they not muslims?

tintingz:
Are they not muslims?

Most of them are not. Some worship the grave of Abu lu'ulu'atal majusi, the man who killed their enemy [Umar (a.s) ]

Some believe there are errors in Quran
Some believe their 12 imans are greater than prophet Isah and Abraham Pbum. This are non Muslims.

Beside that weda you're a Muslim, or shi'a, or Sunni, or anything you call it. And you insult the Companions of Muhammad peace be upon you. We will not hesitate to declare our curse and Allahs curse on that person except if you repent.

We are not Hippocrates, we will not hide it. clearly shows in the Hadith previously.

FriendChoice:
Most of them are not. Some worship the grave of Abu lu'ulu'atal majusi, the man who killed their enemy [Umar (a.s) ]

Some believe there are errors in Quran
Some believe their 12 imans are greater than prophet Isah and Abraham Pbum. This are non Muslims.

Beside that weda you're a Muslim, or shi'a, or Sunni, or anything you call it. And you insult the Companions of Muhammad peace be upon you. We will not hesitate to declare our curse and Allahs curse on that person except if you repent.

We are not Hippocrates, we will not hide it. clearly shows in the Hadith previously.

Do you also declare curse on Boko-haram, ISIS and other terrorists group parading themselves as Muslims?

Rilwayne001:
Do you also declare curse on Boko-haram, ISIS and other terrorists group parading themselves as Muslims?

Those ones are very clear, apart from declaring curses, for every one person they killed is equals to the entire lives of all mankind. For anyone who dies in that way has died as a loser.

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. Quran 5:32

They are far away from Islam as anyone can thinks.

FriendChoice:
Those ones are very clear, apart from declaring curses, for every one person they killed is equals to the entire lives of all mankind. For anyone who dies in that way has died as a loser.

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. Quran 5:32

They are far away from Islam as anyone can thinks.

Okay good.

FriendChoice:
Most of them are not. Some worship the grave of Abu lu'ulu'atal majusi, the man who killed their enemy [Umar (a.s) ]

Some believe there are errors in Quran
Some believe their 12 imans are greater than prophet Isah and Abraham Pbum. This are non Muslims.

Beside that weda you're a Muslim, or shi'a, or Sunni, or anything you call it. And you insult the Companions of Muhammad peace be upon you. We will not hesitate to declare our curse and Allahs curse on that person except if you repent.

We are not Hippocrates, we will not hide it. clearly shows in the Hadith previously.

Until I read the Shi'a say on this, i will get the full gist.

I don't do the sect bashing brouhaha thing.

tintingz:
Until I read the Shi'a say on this, i will get the full gist.

I don't do the sect bashing brouhaha thing.

So you don't know about shi'a and you run to defend them.


Fas'alu Ahlal Zikhri inkuntum lata'alamuun

FriendChoice:
So you don't know about shi'a and you run to defend them.


Fas'alu Ahlal Zikhri inkuntum lata'alamuun

Who's talking about defend.

Have you ever see me creating sect bashing thread? NO.

FYI, I know about Shi'ism and have read about them even on Nairaland from someone like LagosShia(I don't know if he's the same as AlBaqir).

Like have said when you say something negative about something or someone there be figment in the approach/presentation.

tintingz:
Who's talking about defend.

Have you ever see me creating sect bashing thread? NO.

FYI, I know about Shi'ism and have read about them even on Nairaland from someone like LagosShia(I don't know if he's the same as AlBaqir).

Like have said when you say something negative about something or someone there be figment in the approach/presentation.

Look you come here to question us why the hatred for shi'a. I give you reason you said "Are they not Muslim" I give you Hadith and explanations but You said until you here shi'a view.

Now where did I say u create thread of bashing. Let me make it clear to you. We will never stop it, it's seems you're behaving like them. When Hadith is clear to you, u still go on to say trash. We will never stop bashing those who go against Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad peace be upon him. Please do something to stop us.

FriendChoice:
Look you come here to question us why the hatred for shi'a. I give you reason you said "Are they not Muslim" I give you Hadith and explanations but You said until you here shi'a view.

You're only saying this because you don't share same ideology with shi'ism.

I use have this hatred for other sect but I have long give up on this bashing, hatred since when I started using my God-given-reason.

Now where did I say u create thread of bashing. Let me make it clear to you. We will never stop it, it's seems you're behaving like them. When Hadith is clear to you, u still go on to say trash. We will never stop bashing those who go against Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad peace be upon him. Please do something to stop us.

I'm not Shi'i nor a defender of them.

This same hatred have caused a lot of killing Shia's around the world, sunni vs shia war... I'm concern about humanity.

Anyways happy bashing.

tintingz:
You're only saying this because you don't share same ideology with shi'ism.

I use have this hatred for other sect but I have long give up on this bashing, hatred since when I started using my God-given-reason.

I'm not Shi'i nor a defender of them.

This same hatred have caused a lot of killing Shia's around the world, sunni vs shia war... I'm concern about humanity.

Anyways happy bashing.

I don't care about what you think, believe, humanity or whatever you called it bla bla bla.

What you said is not the weight of an atom compared to the words of Prophet of Islam Muhammad Rasulillah bin Abdullahi, Al-ameen, Abul-Qasim. And also the word of his companions.

May the Curse of Allah be upon anyone who insult any of the household or companions of Muhammad pbum. May him never know peace here in the earth and hereafter except those who repent.

tintingz:
Who's talking about defend.

Have you ever see me creating sect bashing thread? NO.

FYI, I know about Shi'ism and have read about them even on Nairaland from someone like LagosShia(I don't know if he's the same as AlBaqir).

Like have said when you say something negative about something or someone there be figment in the approach/presentation.

Lagosshia! one of those big bro that got me addicted to this forum. Mahn, Nairaland is not as interesting as it used to be.

FriendChoice:
Look you come here to question us why the hatred for shi'a. I give you reason you said "Are they not Muslim" I give you Hadith and explanations but You said until you here shi'a view.

Now where did I say u create thread of bashing. Let me make it clear to you. We will never stop it, it's seems you're behaving like them. When Hadith is clear to you, u still go on to say trash. We will never stop bashing those who go against Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad peace be upon him. Please do something to stop us .

Uhm! Sire, don't get me wrong though, I'm not imploring you to stop. Of course you have the right to do whatever you like. But in my opinion i think we should always leave those who go against the Quran for ALLAH alone to judge. The Quran made this clear:


Quran6:114 Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

Rilwayne001:
Uhm! Sire, don't get me wrong though, I'm not imploring you to stop. Of course you have the right to do whatever you like. But in my opinion i think we should always leave those who go against the Quran for ALLAH alone to judge. The Quran made this clear:


Quran6:114 Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

Am not referring to you. What you said is: "Are we also condemning Boko Haram and Isis. And my reply is YES.

If Shi'a can propagate and recruit more young people in the rural areas by giving them detergent (Omo and klin) and spaghetti. What is the issue if We expose them 4 at least people 2 understand what Shi'a is and avoid joining it.

FriendChoice:
I don't care about what you think, believe, humanity or whatever you called it bla bla bla.

What you said is not the weight of an atom compared to the words of Prophet of Islam Muhammad Rasulillah bin Abdullahi, Al-ameen, Abul-Qasim. And also the word of his companions.

May the Curse of Allah be upon anyone who insult any of the household or companions of Muhammad pbum. May him never know peace here in the earth and hereafter except those who repent.

Enjoy your bashing thread.

FriendChoice:
Am not referring to you. What you said is are we also condemning Boko Haram and Isis. And my reply is YES.

If Shi'a can propagate and recruit more young people in the rural areas by giving them detergent (Omo and klin) and spaghetti. What is the issue if We expose them 4 at least people 2 understand what Shi'a is and avoid joining it.

You've gotten me wrong then. I'm not saying you shouldn't expose their hypocrisy, it's a good thing. But raining curse is not good enough.

tintingz:
Enjoy your bashing thread.

Enjoy your ignorance on Hadith of The Prophet.

Rilwayne001:
Lagosshia! one of those big bro that got me addicted to this forum. Mahn, Nairaland is not as interesting as it used to be.

Lol, same here ooo.

I learned a lot about shi'ism from his posts.

FriendChoice:
Enjoy your ignorance on Hadith of The Prophet.

Thank you.

Rilwayne001:
You've gotten me wrong then. I'm not saying you shouldn't expose their hypocrisy, it's a good thing. But raining curse is not good enough.

Abeg tell them ooo.

My point really to friendchoice is, it is been 1400 years and there is no end in sight.

Criticisms of Shi'a have been around for far too long. Sheikh Ul-Islam(ra) did in his time but it never solved anything up until 20st century.

Twentieth century scholars like Sheikh adam ilori, Sheik Ashile, Ibn Baz, Shaykh Uthaymeen(ra) etc. All have criticized them but never called them infidels. If they were infidels, Ulama would have declared them kufar unanimously.

This is 21st century and war on Islam is around us. Is this irrational approach is what we need?. You think you are "exposing" them but you may be recruiting more and you dont even know it. I can guarantee you that if you continue like this for the rest of 2016 (which you do have freedom to do), by 2017, it is gonna be the same all over. So how about using different approach that is standard, academic and less provocative?.

Posting pictures here and there is not necessary evidence. Besides, if you live in the West and speak like this, only a matter of time before authority notices you. Once they find you, they will recruit you to kill Shi'a in order to cause strife in the muslim community. You will have no choice but to do it bcus it comes with huge incentive (imagine getting paid $1000/per wk for this).

And if you kill them, what do you think do are doing?. You end up like boko boys. You may disagree with me but many muslims like that have ended up this way. Some backed out too late. Some didnt make it. Some still think they are fighting a just cause fighting "Shia kufar". That's what happened in Iraq btw 2006-08 when "Sunni Awakening were paid. So be wise and apply wisdom in your criticisms before you are turned to a mole. West have sent many young muslims abroad and within the US for this - known as 'paid machineries'.


My point is, the same people who have criticized extremists have ended up just like that. Go and learn from "Revolution Muslim", an organisation in the US that was disbanded in 2011. They had the same traits but devoid of wisdom.Yet, they have knowledge.

Empiree:
My point really to friendchoice is, it is been 1400 years and there is no end in sight.

Criticisms of Shi'a have been around for far too long. Sheikh Ul-Islam(ra) did in his time but it never solved anything up until 20st century.

Twentieth century scholars like Sheikh adam ilori, Sheik Ashile, Ibn Baz, Shaykh Uthaymeen(ra) etc. All have criticized them but never called them infidels. If they were infidels, Ulama would have declared them kufar unanimously.

This is 21st century and war on Islam is around us. Is this irrational approach is what we need?. You think you are "exposing" them but you may be recruiting more and you dont even know it. I can guarantee you that if you continue like this for the rest of 2016 (which you do have freedom to do), by 2017, it is gonna be the same all over. So how about using different approach that is standard, academic and less provocative?.

Posting pictures here and there is not unnecessary evidence. Besides, if you live in the West and speak like this, only a matter of time before authority notices you. Once they find you, they will recruit you to kill Shi'a in order to cause strife in the muslim community. You will have no choice but to do it bcus it comes with huge incentive (imagine getting paid $1000/per wk for this).

And if you kill them, what do you think do are doing?. You end up like boko boys. You may disagree with me but many muslims like that have ended up this way. Some backed out too late. Some didnt make it. Some still think they are fighting a just cause fighting "Shia kufar". That's what happened in Iraq btw 2006-08 when "Sunni Awakening were paid. So be wise and apply wisdom in your criticisms before you are turned to a mole. West have sent many young muslims abroad and within the US for this - known as 'paid machineries'.


My point is, he same people who have criticized extremists have ended up just like that. Go and learn from "Revolution Muslim", an organisation in the US that was disbanded in 2011. They had the same traits but devoid of wisdom.Yet, they have knowledge.

I am not saying it to end, it will never end. Muslims will divide into 73 part, only those who follow Muhammad pbum and his caliphs are on the right track. Yet that will not stop a person from informing the world about the Danger of joining a sect that goes against the Islamic teachings.

You talk of going to kill. Are all human beings the same, my religion come first before money and bribe. I fear the Lord who I worshipped.

Where is Albani Zaria is he not a critic of Shi'a, has he joined killing them, where is Ja'afar mahmud Adam, is he also a terrorist for speaking against shia, Rahimahullah. Shiek Kabiru gombe is still alive he speaks against Shia, did he also join terrorist group.


If its this type of Advice you want to give me, please hold it I don't want. Continue to keep quite and feel comfortable when the sahaba of Muhammad (SAW) are being insulted. More harm will come to that land where people are insulting prophet households than Good

@ friendchoice,

See your first paragraph really was the same thing they used to create these problems. I have spoken brother. Those who are used to me here know I have spoken out about this 73 sects thing. It is clear you take the hadith literally. I am sure if you count all sects in Islam now, they are already more than 73. Some sects have vanished just at the time some scholars were writing books on "73 sects". Before they finished writing to confirm the hadith, another sects emerged. What I see here is pretty much EXACT traits I saw years ago the way you talk. Choice is yours. You are free to write anything and i am not against you. I only advised you to apply hikma to what you do. Plus you need to understand that the hadith NEVER ever encouraged creating or joining sect. Besides, talking about insulting the prophet, almost all sects or at least some, one way or the other are guilty of this - either in their literature or in physical sense.

I am done talking on this issue unless when it absolutely important.

Empiree:
@ friendchoice,

See the your first paragraph really was the same thing they used to create these problems. I have spoken brother. Those who are used to me here know I have spoken out about this 73 sects thing. It is clear you take the hadith literally. I am sure if you count all sects in Islam now, they are already more than 73. Some sects have vanished just at the time some scholars were writing books on "73 sects". Before they finished writing to confirm the hadith, another sects emerged. What I see here is pretty much EXACT traits I saw years ago the way you talk. Choice is yours. You are free to write anything and i am not against you. I only advised you to apply hikma to what you do. Plus you need to understand that the hadith NEVER ever encouraged creating or joining sect. Besides, talking about insulting the prophet, almost all sects or at least some, one way or the other are guilty of this - either in their literature or in physical sense.

I am done talking on this issue unless when it absolutely important.

Nobody says the hadith encouraged joining sect. If I said so, please point out the place, I am cautious of anything I said Islamic.

I accept the fact you said, I should apply more hikma.

Am not border about sect, the hadith in my previous post curse anyone that insult His companions. The hadith doesn't speak on sect rather to all.

@ Empiree,

# I was once invited by brother Rilwayne001 to dialogue with this fellow on this thread but I declined. This is the most hateful thread on Shi'ism I have ever come across on NL.

# There is nothing bad in dialogue, debate, argument as far as Quran and Sunnah is concern. However there are rules and regulations set by Allah Himself and the Sunnah of Nabi in this regard.

* Sound evidence/references, good exhortation, good adab (manners) are what Quran enjoined in debates, arguments etc. Unfortunately this thread clearly lack all of these set of rules/cautions. In this kind of thread, the winner is usually the most bad-mouthed person or one that can post propaganda the most.

# On the other hand, I cannot blame this fellow for his forceful attacks and provocations on "Shi'a". I am doubly sure he's an Hausa guy or grew up with them. Unfortunately for him he learnt Shi'ism from Zakyzakies. And unfortunately Zakyzakites (IMN) are "the majority Shi'a" in Nigeria. In fact, 99% uninformed Nigerian (Muslims and non-Muslims alike) think Sheik Zakyzaky is the leader of Shia in Nigeria. It is very difficult to blame any for this thinking because of the apparent nature of the obvious facts: Largest crowd following Zakyzaky, media being controlled by him, Ashura Majalis, Iran giving recognition of him more etc. It is like thinking Pastor Adeboye of RCCG is the leader of Nigerian christian. So, how will Nigerian Christians, Syrian Christians, Iraqi Christians, the West who have been severely attacked by "sons of Islam - ISIS, BOKO HARAM etc" view Islam despite the sympathetic plea of true sons of Islam?!

# Note: Empiree, I only write this because of your "pleas" to this guy. The constant notifications of your replies disturb my peace a lot

Empiree:
My point really to friendchoice is, it is been 1400 years and there is no end in sight.

Criticisms of Shi'a have been around for far too long. Sheikh Ul-Islam(ra) did in his time but it never solved anything up until 20st century.

Twentieth century scholars like Sheikh adam ilori, Sheik Ashile, Ibn Baz, Shaykh Uthaymeen(ra) etc. All have criticized them but never called them infidels. If they were infidels, Ulama would have declared them kufar unanimously.

This is 21st century and war on Islam is around us. Is this irrational approach is what we need?. You think you are "exposing" them but you may be recruiting more and you dont even know it. I can guarantee you that if you continue like this for the rest of 2016 (which you do have freedom to do), by 2017, it is gonna be the same all over. So how about using different approach that is standard, academic and less provocative?.

Posting pictures here and there is not unnecessary evidence. Besides, if you live in the West and speak like this, only a matter of time before authority notices you. Once they find you, they will recruit you to kill Shi'a in order to cause strife in the muslim community. You will have no choice but to do it bcus it comes with huge incentive (imagine getting paid $1000/per wk for this).

And if you kill them, what do you think do are doing?. You end up like boko boys. You may disagree with me but many muslims like that have ended up this way. Some backed out too late. Some didnt make it. Some still think they are fighting a just cause fighting "Shia kufar". That's what happened in Iraq btw 2006-08 when "Sunni Awakening were paid. So be wise and apply wisdom in your criticisms before you are turned to a mole. West have sent many young muslims abroad and within the US for this - known as 'paid machineries'.


My point is, he same people who have criticized extremists have ended up just like that. Go and learn from "Revolution Muslim", an organisation in the US that was disbanded in 2011. They had the same traits but devoid of wisdom.Yet, they have knowledge.

Well said.

AlBaqir sorry one question, are you not worried about the 4G speed curses rain on Shia? It is like an unlimited data subscription.