₦airaland Forum

We have experienced so much disappointments from failed leadership and bad governance and deprivations that many are beginning to say "ONLY God" can do this; ONLY God can do that."

What has happened to us is that we are internalizing the failures of leadership and deprivations we see around us and the ones we've experienced and we are beginning to define ourselves by our experiences- seeing ourselves the way God is not seeing us. We see hopelessness, helplessness, failures and we even call ourselves so e.g. when we say,"No hope for Nigeria". It is people that make Nigeria what it is, so speaking hopelessness affects the speaker too.

I remember the story of Gideon in the bible whose people were being oppressed by another country- allowing them to farm and them showing up during harvest to carry away their harvest. Like many Nigerians Gideon internalized the weakness around Him and wondered why God didn't come to their aide. Finally, an angel of God appeared to get something for his family and called him "a mighty man of valour", later following up to say, "Go in this your might".

All the while, the mighty man was hiding because he defined himself by his situation. He didn't see himself as the solution.
What I am saying is that God is real and he loves you and me, but God will not do for man what He has equipped us to do. He intervenes when He knows we truly need help and when we ask for it but even then He still shows us what part we are to play.

WHAT ATTITUDE SHOULD WE HAVE?

Before we hurriedly conclude that ONLY God can do anything, we should remember that He created the laws of nature and the laws of success and gave us brains so we too can get busy becoming creative like Himself. God wants to see us act like Him together with Him.

If we focus on what we can do e.g. thinking solutions instead of worrying; trying to find out why things go wrong instead of transferring responsibility to a who (devil, witches, God) and if we genuinely pray for God's help while we go into action to solve problems rather than asking God to take up our own responsibility all together etc, if we make this our way of life, Africa will change very quickly for the better and Nigeria in particular will change to become one of the leading nations on earth.

We are so blessed by God already. Let's stop asking God to take up our own roles too- to do for us what we are a not willing to get involved in. It is not "ONLY GOD", otherwise God won't give us brains.

Whoever God is, or whatever form he/she/it takes on (assuming there is one), I think everything that humans need to make a better world already exists. Besides, religions define god as perfection, and tampering with his work would invalidate that definition because you don't tamper with something that's already broken. . . So stop waiting for 'supernatural intervention' because any change/improvement you need in your life has to be initiated by you and you alone

So you are saying we shouldn't "wait on the Lord," when he is the "author and finisher of our faith?" what role do we have again than to bask in grace?

AnonyNymous:
Whoever God is, or whatever form he/she/it takes on (assuming there is one), I think everything that humans need to make a better world already exists. Besides, religions define god as perfection, and tampering with his work would invalidate that definition because you don't tamper with something that's already broken. . . So stop waiting for 'supernatural intervention' because any change/improvement you need in your life has to be initiated by you and you alone

What people who don't believe in God say about Him is mainly what they believe and what they've heard religious people say about God.. not necessarily the reality.

God is perfect doesn't mean once God did something, man cannot alter it. In fact, God gave man authority over other things He created. With authority comes responsibility. Many people are not using their authority, some are misusing or abusing it. The consequences abound around us.
It is not tampering with God's work when a mother takes care of her baby; that is taking responsibility. If she leaves the child uncared for and the child dies, that's a consequence of negligence- not a proof that God is not real.

menxer:
So you are saying we shouldn't "wait on the Lord," when he is the "author and finisher of our faith?" what role do we have again than to bask in grace?

"Waiting on the Lord" in the Bible is for renewal of strength(suggests you've been doing things).

It also means patience which is also not doing nothing. Rather, it means you should not give up under pressure.

PDBonline:
What I am saying is that God is real and he loves you and me, but God will not do for man what He has equipped us to do. He intervenes when He knows we truly need help .[/b][/color]

It thus means i can do without consulting god, until such a time that god becomes a relevant factor.

This also means that in the event that i never ever need god help, i can eternally consigned god to oblivion.

Now the god idea concept, is inching close to reason.

Many Nigerians need to understand this issues. Miracles are not meant to be continuous interventions.
The day Israelites entered Canaan, the miracles of manna (food) stopped because, now they can get food by themselves.

cc: Lalasticlacla

PDBonline:
"Waiting on the Lord" in the Bible is for renewal of strength(suggests you've been doing things).

It also means patience which is also not doing nothing. Rather, it means you should not give up under pressure.

@bolded, that's the correct and appropriate answer in this instance.

akintom:
It thus means i can do without consulting god, until such a time that god becomes a relevant factor.

This also means that in the event that i never ever need god help, i can eternally consigned god to oblivion.

Now the god idea concept, is inching close to reason.

There is a difference between intervention and relationship.
You needed you parents and caregivers once when you were a child. They even fed you after providing the food. That you don't need your parents to spoon-feed you anymore doesn't mean you should break up relationship with them.

Even then, God will always put things in your heart to do for humanity that is greater than you if you fellowship with Him. He would require your faith in Him but you must take responsibility to start what you can do.

PDBonline:
Many Nigerians need to understand this issues. Miracles are not meant to be continuous interventions.
The day Israelites entered Canaan, the miracles of manna (food) stopped because, now they can get food by themselves.

cc: Lalasticlacla

Miracles are natural
When they do not occur
Something has gone wrong.
~Helen Schuman
A course in Miracles

PDBonline:
There is a difference between intervention and fellowship.
.

The fellowship part is not of interest to me, as long as it's kept personal and private.

But this interventionist concept of god idea, which is the focus of your thread, has no shred of trace in human experience.

Intervention is a precursor of fellowship. Since god never intervened, except in the unfounded assumptions of Bible, the fellowship part is unknown.

menxer:

Miracles are natural
When they do not occur
Something has gone wrong.
~Helen Schuman
A course in Miracles

The perspective you are speaking from is not the background here. Try follow the line of thoughts and I gave an example to show what I mean.

The world itself is a product of continuous miracle. A farmer plants just a seed, it becomes crop with fruits that can be replanted to become a plantation. That is a miracle continuously going on but not without humans taking responsibility for what they can do. Even when the manna was given, Israelites still have the responsibility of going out to pick for their families.

*Please this is not meant to be an argument to prove superiority of knowledge. Meant to help people and show them how things work in God's kingdom. Some who don't understand have become discouraged and faithless altogether. It's a serious issue please. .*

akintom:
The fellowship part is not of interest to me, as long as it's kept personal and private.

But this interventionist concept of god idea, which is the focus of your thread, has no shred of trace in human experience.

Intervention is a precursor of fellowship. Since god never intervened, except in the unfounded assumptions of Bible, the fellowship part is unknown.

It's okay. But don't superimpose your experience on others. If you've not experienced God's intervention or don't acknowledge them as such, you may say so but don't generalize. Others have.

PDBonline:
The perspective you are speaking from is not the background here. Try follow the line of thoughts and I gave an example to show what I mean.

The world itself is a product of continuous miracle. A farmer plants just a seed, it becomes crop with fruits that can be replanted to become a plantation. That is a miracle continuously going on but not without humans taking responsibility for what they can do. Even when the manna was given, Israelites still have the responsibility of going out to pick for their families.

*Please this is not meant to be an argument to prove superiority of knowledge. Meant to help people and show them how things work in God's kingdom. Some who don't understand have become discouraged and faithless altogether. It's a serious issue please. .*

I wasn't trying to proof anything, but that quote summarized everything.
If people fail to take responsibility for whatever reason, "something has gone wrong."

PDBonline:
It's okay. But don't superimpose your experience on others. If you've not experienced God's intervention or don't acknowledge them as such, you may say so but don't generalize. Others have.

It's not my experience, but what is real, practically evidential and reproducible. Nothing is personal here.

Whatever is said to be intervention experience in religious sphere, is completely private and personal. It bears no value for the world.

If you say i should not "superimpose" behavior that is informed by reason on folks, am now wondering what other alternatives there are.

PDBonline:
We have experienced so much disappointments from failed leadership and bad governance and deprivations that many are beginning to say "ONLY God" can do this; ONLY God can do that."

What has happened to us is that we are internalizing the failures of leadership and deprivations we see around us and the ones we've experienced and we are beginning to define ourselves by our experiences- seeing ourselves the way God is not seeing us. We see hopelessness, helplessness, failures and we even call ourselves so e.g. when we say,"No hope for Nigeria". It is people that make Nigeria what it is, so speaking hopelessness affects the speaker too.

I remember the story of Gideon in the bible whose people were being oppressed by any country- allowing them to farm and them showing up during harvest to carry away their harvest. Like many Nigerians Gideon internalized the weakness around Him and wondered why God didn't come to their aide. Finally, an angel of God appeared to get something for his family and called him "a mighty man of valour", later following up to say, "Go in this your might".

All the while, the mighty man was hiding because he defined himself by his situation. He didn't see himself as the solution.
What I am saying is that God is real and he loves you and me, but God will not do for man what He has equipped us to do. He intervenes when He knows we truly need help and when we ask for it but even then He still shows us what part we are to play.

WHAT ATTITUDE SHOULD WE HAVE?

Before we hurriedly conclude that ONLY God can do anything, we should remember that He created the laws of nature and the laws of success and gave us brains so we too can get busy becoming creative like Himself. God wants to see us act like Him together with Him.

If we focus on what we can do e.g. thinking solutions instead of worrying; trying to find out why things go wrong instead of transferring responsibility to a who (devil, witches, God) and if we genuinely pray for God's help while we go into action to solve problems rather than asking God to take up our own responsibility all together etc, if we make this our way of life, Africa will change very quickly for the better and Nigeria in particular will change to become one of the leading nations on earth.

We are so blessed by God already. Let's stop asking God to take up our own roles too- to do for us what we are a not willing to get involved in. It is not "ONLY GOD", otherwise God won't give us brains.

Thank u for this post

[color=#000099]It's important to mention that prayer is one of the responsibilities of the authority of man.
God will not violate human the will and authority He gave to man on earth.
Concerning issues that are obviously out of your control at the moment or for wisdom to use the best approach for what is within your control, you still need to pray. But not an irresponsible prayer expecting God to do everything. [/colour]

PDBonline:
Concerning issues that are obviously out of your control at the moment r]

What possible issues can be out of control of human minds?

PDBonline:
or for wisdom to use the best approach for what is within your control, you still need to pray. r]

Wisdom is applying the appropriate knowledge, to prosecute the desired outcome.

If you know what to do, and how to do it, why don't just go ahead and get it done?

Why talking to the air about what is known?

PDBonline:
But not an irresponsible prayer expecting God to do everything. [/colour]

Prayer is the most absurdly irresponsible behavior by the religious folks.