₦airaland Forum

KingEbukasBlog:


Welcome sir.

The atheists here have been evasive all these while . They won't just let you score .

Randomperson even said I should prove that the creator of the universe is God . I mean I'm just nonplussed here . Even when the definition of God has been given .

Remember that atheism is deleterious to the brain and that research concludes that greater levels of atheism emerged when the pre frontal cortex - responsible for logical thinking - was frazzled .

Though I'm nonplussed at their reasoning , its not surprising .

Well the truth is that anything is permissible as a shield for them as long as the end result is to disprove the existence of God even when this is practically impossible to do but then when you go ahead and ask them for proof of how they arrived at the GOD DOES NOT EXIST position they would be unable to except for some flimsy excuses that appeal to their emotions.

Even with the overwhelming evidence of the existence of God they deny him but for some when asked if GOD DOES NOT EXIST they still say they do not know but in the same breath will say BUT THEY ARE SURE THAT IF HE DOES EXIST IT IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN GOD.

They do not know yet are sure that its not the Christian God....

My brother any goes for them

KingEbukasBlog:
Nice post there . Atheists think Quantum Physics refutes God but that's a blatant lie . Even its founder Werner Heisenberg acknowledges the existence of God .

Even Albert Einstein disowned them when he said:

"In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such view." (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, page 214).

Happy New Year.

randomperson:
That's how Christians roll... They argue with u for hours and when u corner them, they suddenly develop a reticence to argue with u... They might even quote a verse showing why they shouldn't argue with atheists

I've asked you this question and since you have not responded for obvious reasons

Does God exist ?

1. Yes

2. No

3. Indifferent

4. Not sure

If you say

'Yes' you are a theist

'No' means you an atheist ,

'Indifferent' means you are an apatheist
and

'not sure' means you are an agnostic

I don't consider agnostic atheism as a rational position . Its a barefaced appeal to ignorance fallacy . I also don't see the reason for the 'agnostic' or 'gnostic' attachments to either theism or atheism .

randomperson:
Here is an honest piece of advice... Go fvck yourself

Isnt that what you have been doing to your father all this while as an atheist?

The best advice you can receive this year is what i just offered you. Desist from mentioning my moniker deliberately or in error.

Take your vile language back into your home and use it on your father.

KingEbukasBlog:
'God' is just the appellation (title) we give to the creator of the universe . You can call God the First Cause

Really?? So God= the creator= the first cause?? Assumptions, all of 'em.
If God is simply the creator, then we can't automatically attribute properties like benevolence, omniscience or omnipotence to him. There's no rule, scientific or logical that says the creator is good or all powerful.
Also equating the creator with the first cause or uncaused cause is a leap of faith... The uncaused cause could have created the creator of the universe
Theism basically claims that God is the uncaused cause that is omnipotent, benevolent bla, bla bla... Not one of those properties have been proven to belong to god

Ranchhoddas:
According to you Bill Gates is still not saved, so what's the point? Even many of your church members are not saved, so why exactly are you yapping?

---

Swerve abeg.

The irony here is that even the devils are better off than atheists, they even believe God exists but are not saved.

Watch www.Atheistmovie.com

4everGod:
Well the truth is that anything is permissible as a shield for them as long as the end result is to disprove the existence of God even when this is practically impossible to do but then when you go ahead and ask them for proof of how they arrived at the GOD DOES NOT EXIST position they would be unable to except for some flimsy excuses that appeal to their emotions.

Even with the overwhelming evidence of the existence of God they deny him but for some when asked if GOD DOES NOT EXIST they still say they do not know but in the same breath will say BUT THEY ARE SURE THAT IF HE DOES EXIST IT IS NOT THE CHRISTIAN GOD.

They do not know yet are sure that its not the Christian God....

My brother any goes for them

Exactly!

Funny enough 'Christian God' best explains the creator of the universe . Christian theism portrays best what is expected of the creator of the universe

KingEbukasBlog:
Objective moral values and duties such as love , compassion , kindness , forgiveness exist and are seen as morally good . How this objective moral values and duties are performed is not our business . ;

You are not serious.
[quote]If there is no God , then there is no moral law giver . And if there is no moral law giver , there are no moral laws . And if there are no moral laws , then there is no good . And if there is no good , then there is no evil

This is completely not true. Moral laws are human construct. They vary from place to place based on culture and also vary in history. People just use religion and God as enforcing mechanism for what ever mral.codes of conduct they have made back in the days. Now we don't need Gods when formulating moral codes of conduct, we use institutions for that like the tate and national assemblies, governments etc.

I keep coming back to the sharia system of morality. Who created that system? Was it God or men?

But as far you see the aforementioned objective moral values and duties as as good , then a deviation is seen as evil . You now have acknowledged the existence of good and evil . You now need moral laws to help guide you to know what is good and evil . And moral laws can come from a moral law giver who transcends all . And the moral law giver is God.

You haven't shown that morality is not a human construct. You only asserted that morality came from God without any evidence. Morality is a human construct. Men had to teach themselves morality, uphold it and refine it. Humans are the moral.law givers to them selves. Again who formulated the sharia moral system? Was it God or men?

But which religious perspective of God portrays at best the moral law giver - this should be the contentious issue .

This depends on who you ask. To a muslim it's Allah, a Hindu it's Brahma to you it's the God of the bible. So it depends on who you ask.

4everGod:
Isnt that what you have been doing to your father all this while as an atheist?

The best advice you can receive this year is what i just offered you. Desist from mentioning my moniker deliberately or in error.

Take your vile language back into your home and use it on your father.

Story... I dont take u serious... U are basically persona non Grata... U are just getting vexed in vain... Now swerve

OLAADEGBU:
Even Albert Einstein disowned them when he said:

"In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such view." (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, page 214).

Happy New Year.

Lmao ...

Albert Einstein was ruthless in his rejection of atheism . He kept on rejecting atheism at every moment an opportunity presents itself to do so .


Happy New Year to you too

God bless you

[quote author=dalaman post=52523463][/quote]Dalaman if moral laws are human construct and vary from places to place what is their common foundation?

Are these laws which you say are human construct based on Good and evil or not even though they vary worldwide.

randomperson:
Really?? So God= the creator= the first cause?? Assumptions, all of 'em.
If God is simply the creator, then we can't automatically attribute properties like benevolence, omniscience or omnipotence to him. There's no rule, scientific or logical that says the creator is good or all powerful.

GOD is benevolent because He made conditions which support life. GOD is all-powerful because He brought the universe into existence from nothing.

Also equating the creator with the first cause or uncaused cause is a leap of faith... The uncaused cause could have created the creator of the universe

This would lead to an infinite regress which is logically impossible.

KingEbukasBlog:
I've asked you this question and since you have not responded for obvious reasons

Does God exist ?

1. Yes

2. No

3. Indifferent

4. Not sure

If you say

'Yes' you are a theist

'No' means you an atheist ,

'Indifferent' means you are an apatheist
and

'not sure' means you are an agnostic

I don't consider agnostic atheism as a rational position . Its a barefaced appeal to ignorance fallacy . I also don't see the reason for the 'agnostic' or 'gnostic' attachments to either theism or atheism .

You're wrong again... The definition of atheism, even the one quoted by felixomor includes BELIEF THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST or LACK OF BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS...
unless u want to show us why we should believe u over the Oxford dictionary

randomperson:
Story... I dont take u serious... U are basically persona non Grata... U are just getting vexed in vain... Now swerve

You do not take me serious yet you enjoy mentioning me everywhere you go like a groupie. Seriously take your vile self and exhibit it on the highest and most exposed shelf in your fathers house in which you are still a tenant and spew all your vitriol to him whenever you feel the urge. Learn to keep your dirty linen within the confines of your home and not making it a public display in moral decadence and devolution.

OLAADEGBU:
The irony here is that even the devils are better off than atheists, they even believe God exists but are not saved.

Watch www.Atheistmovie.com

Your tracts say otherwise. You should read them more often.

DoctorAlien:
GOD is benevolent because He made conditions which support life. GOD is all-powerful because He brought the universe into existence from nothing.
This would lead to an infinite regress which is logically impossible.

God is benevolent because he made conditions which support life... What about the things made by god which don't support life... Like the Eye- eating worm, tsunamis, the organism that causes anencephaly... It's double standard to ascribe the good things to god and ignore the ugly ones...

And so in order to avoid infinite regress, we assume the creator is the uncaused cause... That's not logic, it's assumption

4everGod:
You do not take me serious yet you enjoy mentioning me everywhere you go like a groupie. Seriously take your vile self and exhibit it on the highest and most exposed shelf in your fathers house in which you are still a tenant and spew all your vitriol to him whenever you feel the urge. Learn to keep your dirty linen within the confines of your home and not making it a public display in moral decadence and devolution.

U love stories... I only mention your moniker when am giving examples of people who either make silly arguments or are uncouth. If you don't like it, that's your business. There's nothing u can do about it... Now can u finally swerve??

randomperson:
God is benevolent because he made conditions which support life... What about the things made by god which don't support life... Like the Eye- eating worm, tsunamis, the organism that causes anencephaly... It's double standard to ascribe the good things to god and ignore the ugly ones...

This question does not prove that GOD does not exist. It instead seeks to enquire about the preservation of the universe i.e. has the universe created by the benevolent GOD always been like this.

And so in order to avoid infinite regress, we assume the creator is the uncaused cause... That's not logic, it's assumption

Infinite regress is logically impossible. Think with your head. It's not an assumed position. It's logically impossible. You can ask me to help you.

randomperson:
Really?? So God= the creator= the first cause?? Assumptions, all of 'em.
If God is simply the creator, then we can't automatically attribute properties like benevolence, omniscience or omnipotence to him. There's no rule, scientific or logical that says the creator is good or all powerful.
Also equating the creator with the first cause or uncaused cause is a leap of faith... The uncaused cause could have created the creator of the universe
Theism basically claims that God is the uncaused cause that is omnipotent, benevolent bla, bla bla... Not one of those properties have been proven to belong to god

Lol . This is simple common sense . Pay attention carefully

Omnipotence means enormously powerful .

See how vast and great the universe is , it is only an enormously powerful being can cause it to exist .

God is cognitively perfect and this is greater than omniscience - this means that God knows all propositional knowledge or truths and the appropriate non propositional knowledge .

And since God is immutable or changeless then he is perfect . If anything changes, it must change for the better or the worse . For a change to take place, either something that is needed is added, which is a change for the better; or something that is needed is lost, which is a change for the worse.

But, since God is perfect (good) , He does not need anything. Therefore, He cannot change for the better. If God were to lose something, He would no longer be perfect; therefore, He cannot change for the worse.

Evil is a deviation from good. And since God is perfect then He is good

Remember from the cosmological argument , we can deduce the properties of the First cause - changeless , spaceless , beginless , timeless , immaterial , non physical , enormously powerful etc and this coincides with the Christian God

randomperson:
U love stories... I only mention your moniker when am giving examples of people who either make silly arguments or are uncouth. If you don't like it, that's your business. There's nothing u can do about it... Now can u finally swerve??

If you knew what being uncouth meant you would have asked your father to tell you how he managed to drop you on your head while you were still a baby and that would explain how you managed to use such a language as "go fvck yourself" on anyone. Only people with terrible manners would easily spill such gutter talk from their mouth. Like i said, whenever you feel the urge, pour them all out on your father at home and if that does not quench your urge then the rest of the family are available to take turns.

KingEbukasBlog:


Welcome sir.

The atheists here have been evasive all these while . They won't just let you score .

Randomperson even said I should prove that the creator of the universe is God . I mean I'm just nonplussed here . Even when the definition of God has been given .

Remember that atheism is deleterious to the brain and that research concludes that greater levels of atheism emerged when the pre frontal cortex - responsible for logical thinking - was frazzled .

Though I'm nonplussed at their reasoning , its not surprising .

Atheism is deleterious to the brain but there is a higher number of atheists among scientists and philosophers than u find among ordinary people. On an average, atheists happen to be more intelligent than theists... Of course that's not causation but correlation but the there's a relationship nonetheless
There's also a relationship between the development and literacy level of a country and atheism...
Say what u want about atheism but Christians are definitely not faring any better

4everGod:
If you knew what being uncouth meant you would have asked your father to tell you how he managed to drop you on your head while you were still a baby and that would explain how you managed to use such a language as "go fvck yourself" on anyone. Only people with terrible manners would easily spill such gutter talk from their mouth. Like i said, whenever you feel the urge, pour them all out on your father at home and if that does not quench your urge then the rest of the family are available to take turns.

Am tempted to recount all the other circumstances when u have been uncouth towards other people including myself but I don't need to do that, everyone here is familiar with your style of speech... As I said the other time, u get what u deserve. U want civility, try to be civil...

randomperson:
God is benevolent because he made conditions which support life... What about the things made by god which don't support life... Like the Eye- eating worm, tsunamis, the organism that causes anencephaly... It's double standard to ascribe the good things to god and ignore the ugly ones...

What is ugly and what is good? Who determined the standard?

GOD is still benevolent because the eye exists for the proliferation of life(the worms). The life of those organisms is sustained by their parasitic activities on man/other things. All in all, life is sustained. Therefore GOD is benevolent.

KingEbukasBlog:
Singularity before expansion . Galaxies have been observed to be moving steadily apart from each other . That means they were closer to each other before in the past .

The best explanation for this is : take a balloon and glue buttons to the balloon . Then fill the balloon with air . You'd observe the higher the volume of air the greater the distance between the buttons . Then release the air slowly from the balloon , you'd see that the distance between the buttons decreases .

In reality the continuous contraction will lead to a single point or singularity . But this singularity isn't a physical affair or state . It is a mathematical idealization

Everything in the universe began to exist at some point because of the law of causality . That's why the argument states that

1. Whatever begins to exist must have a cause

2.The universe began to exist

3. Therefore the universe has a cause

There are possible causes

a. God - an uncaused cause

b. Abstract objects

Abstract objects have no beginnings and they exist necessarily. But these abstract objects are causally impotent - they do not cause anything . So we are left with a maximally great being - God - who evidently has the ability to cause the universe to exist approx 14 billion years ago .



I don't think you understand the argument . As far as we can see that objective moral values and duties exist therefore God exists - that is , no matter where we come from we can agree that to show , love , kindness , compassion , justice , even forgiveness are good moral values . And this makes it objective . Therefore , God exists .



This has to be expounded .

1. Fine Tuning cannot come by chance : There is no possibility that life permitting universe just popped out into existence by chance .

2. Fine tuning cannot come by physical necessity : Since these constants and quantities are not determined by the laws of nature then there's no reason or evidence to suggest that fine tuning is necessary

3. Fine tuning can come by design alone

The fine tuning of the universe is the proposition that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants and quantities

Let me give three examples

1. Higgs vacuum expectation value =246.2Gev

2. Electro magnetism coupling constant = 0.00729

3.Cosmological constant = 2.3 x(10)^-3 e(v)^4

Now if these numbers should be altered by a hair's breath then physical interactive life of any kind will not exist anywhere

Take for example

Expansion rate of the universe : (4πG)/3(p+3p) + ^/3

Now if the cosmological constant (^) is changed by even 1 part in 10^120 , this would cause the universe to expand too quickly or too slowly . In either case , the universe would be life prohibiting . Exciting right ?

Even Stephen Hawking admitted : "The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."

A very logical conclusion is that the universe was designed to be life permitting .

There here's the question if it is possible then the universe could not have existed , then why does it exist ?

Dude your finetune argument is too anthromorphic.
You are basically saying that because life exist the universe was finetuned for it.
Everything that exists in this universe can only do so within a certain tolerance range. Outside that range it won't exist.
So we can also say that if anything exist the universe was finetuned for it.
The Universe was fine-tuned for I-phones to exist. What do you think?

Ranchhoddas:
Your tracts say otherwise. You should read them more often.

You still don't get it. Get some wisdom.

Watch www.Atheistmovie.com

randomperson:
Atheism is deleterious to the brain but there is a higher number of atheists among scientists and philosophers than u find among ordinary people. On an average, atheists happen to be more intelligent than theists... Of course that's not causation but correlation but the there's a relationship nonetheless
There's also a relationship between the development and literacy level of a country and atheism...
Say what u want about atheism but Christians are definitely not faring any better

I have told you that as at 1996 in Mensa only 3 percent of Mensa members are atheists . Mensa is an organization of people with high IQ .

But IQ does not actually define intelligence totally . Because here's social intelligence and there's emotional intelligence.

The greatest minds were theists and deists from the Ancient Greeks to the medieval age to the modern time . It has all been theists and deists

Albert Einstein , Max Planck , Leonardo Da Vinci I can go on and on and on

I also discovered that the grandmasters in Chess have high IQs and they are very religious too .

randomperson:
Am tempted to recount all the other circumstances when u have been uncouth towards other people including myself but I don't need to do that, everyone here is familiar with your style of speech... As I said the other time, u get what u deserve. U want civility, try to be civil...

When you get a taste of your own medicine you suddenly turn to a wet pussy cat. I thought you had a leaking mouth and a seemingly lewd cesspool of gutter language in the reservoir of your brain.

You joined NL and i warned you early that your language was terrible and your lack of manners was irritating but you kept at it. You never know when you are messed up in the head but only see others. FYI everyone knows you have been morally bankrupt here on NL even kingebukasblog so much so even he at a point also wanted to stop conversing with you as all you do is throw insults in the name of having debates.

My position still stands. This is 2017 and i will not tolerate any trashy talk from anyone. Stop mentioning my moniker deliberately or in error. I have already asked 2 others of your sort to also desist and so far even the one i thought would find it hard to do has respected my wish. I believe you also can respect my wish. I have not mentioned you ever since i told you to stop mentioning me and i never break my word. Mentioning you ow was to issue you a reminder after you failed to keep my request.

If you love trolling and you feel trolling means advantage then i wonder the kind of common sense you acquired in the theater of life.

Cease and desist from mentioning my moniker forthwith. I am not Atheist so get your fill of mentioning the monikers of your tribe of atheists.

KingEbukasBlog:
I have told you that as at 1996 in Mensa only 3 percent of Mensa members are atheists . Mensa is an organization of people with high IQ .

But IQ does not actually define intelligence totally . Because here's social intelligence and there's emotional intelligence.

The greatest minds were theists and deists from the Ancient Greeks to the medieval age to the modern time . It has all been theists and deists

Albert Einstein , Max Planck , Leonardo Da Vinci I can go on and on and on

I also discovered that the grandmasters in Chess have high IQs and they are very religious too .

Yea. We the (unofficial)Grandmasters of Chess humbly acknowledge the true GOD in Heaven who rules in the affairs of men, and who has given us such an impressive mental ability.

KingEbukasBlog:
Lol . This is simple common sense . Pay attention carefully

Omnipotence means enormously powerful .

See how vast and great the universe is , it is only an enormously powerful being can cause it to exist .

God is cognitively perfect and this is greater than omniscience - this means that God knows all propositional knowledge or truths and the appropriate non propositional knowledge .

And since God is immutable or changeless then he is perfect . If anything changes, it must change for the better or the worse . For a change to take place, either something that is needed is added, which is a change for the better; or something that is needed is lost, which is a change for the worse.

But, since God is perfect (good) , He does not need anything. Therefore, He cannot change for the better. If God were to lose something, He would no longer be perfect; therefore, He cannot change for the worse.

Evil is a deviation from good. And since God is perfect then He is good

Remember from the cosmological argument , we can deduce the properties of the First cause - changeless , spaceless , beginless , timeless , immaterial , non physical , enormously powerful etc and this coincides with the Christian God

Omnipotence doesn't mean enormously powerful, it means infinitely powerful, can do all things... There is no logical basis for suggesting the creator of the universe can do all things... The word 'can' implied potential, so how do u deduce he CAN do all things, when he has not done all things... An assunption borne out of laziness...
And assuming without conceding that God can do all things, this omnipotence contradicts his benevolence in two ways:
1. If he can do all things, does that mean that he can do evil?? If he can do evil, then he isn't infinitely good. If he can't do evil, he's not infinitely powerful...
2. If God is both infinitely powerful and infinitely good, that means he has the will and the power to create a perfect universe. The universe is imperfect, therefore either god doesn't have the will to create a perfect universe- which means he's not good, or he doesn't have the power, which means he's not all powerful... Basically the problem of evil.

The properties u claim u deduce from the cosmological argument, what's actually the basis... Has it been proven that God in fact possesses these characteristics? It hasn't, therefore you can't use them as premises from which to draw the conclusion of the existence of God.
And, again assuming these properties are proven, they also coincide with a Muslim god, and many other Gods. What makes yours more valid??

DoctorAlien:
What is ugly and what is good? Who determined the standard?

GOD is still benevolent because the eye exists for the proliferation of life(the worms). The life of those organisms is sustained by their parasitic activities on man/other things. All in all, life is sustained. Therefore GOD is benevolent.

Does god have the power to sustain life without the eye-eating worm?

4everGod:
When you get a taste of your own medicine you suddenly turn to a wet pussy cat. I thought you had a leaking mouth and a seemingly lewd cesspool of gutter language in the reservoir of your brain.

You joined NL and i warned you early that your language was terrible and your lack of manners was irritating but you kept at it. You never know when you are messed up in the head but only see others. FYI everyone knows you have been morally bankrupt here on NL even kingebukasblog so much so even he at a point also wanted to stop conversing with you as all you do is throw insults in the name of having debates.

My position still stands. This is 2017 and i will not tolerate any trashy talk from anyone. Stop mentioning my moniker deliberately or in error. I have already asked 2 others of your sort to also desist and so far even the one i thought would find it hard to do has respected my wish. I believe you also can respect my wish. I have not mentioned you ever since i told you to stop mentioning me and i never break my word. Mentioning you ow was to issue you a reminder after you failed to keep my request.

If you love trolling and you feel trolling means advantage then i wonder the kind of common sense you acquired in the theater of life.

Cease and desist from mentioning my moniker forthwith. I am not Atheist so get your fill of mentioning the monikers of your tribe of atheists.

I don't have the time for childish rants, come back when am less busy... In fact, I will mention u when am less busy

OLAADEGBU:
You still don't get it. Get some wisdom.
Watch www.Atheistmovie.com

SMH