The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. - Christianity Etc (2)

The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. - Christianity Etc (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by AlvanT(m): 2:24pm On Apr 26, 2017

ifenes:
Let's call the subconscious the higher mind and conscious mind the lower mind of ourselves. The higher mind is at the tree top, it can see what the lower mind cannot see. It spot the danger the lower mind can't see, hence protects it. The lower mind( conscious mind) is like a kid who has no idea what is up there. He has no experience whatsoever, no idea the dangers that lies ahead, he doesn't control anything.

Majority of us planned to be Lawyers, Doctors, wives, Houses etc back in school. But just like kids the conscious mind is ambitious but when reality checks in, he finds himself somewhere else he never imagined. That is the subconscious working, creating subconsciously agreed illusions that will benefit your purpose of playing this life game.

Logic never solves anything. Life is not a straight line, we all know this. The best we can do is to avoid resistance to the subconscious. This is what the Christians call " The will of God".....which in psychology known as the " The will of the subconscious mind/ real man"

I don't know what to say about the rats. I believe the rat is also play the game. This may sound corny , but if you think about what I have written so far, you will realise that there isn't much the physical mind can do. The bible God is a misunderstanding of how our minds work.

Sir what do you mean by "I believe the rat also play the game"? sorry to deviate but do you think we can reincarnate as inanimate objects plants or animals? Thank you!

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by obinna58(m): 2:48pm On Apr 26, 2017

Oaroloye at it again
U such a Derailer

Just when the z getting more interesting sad

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by oaroloye(m): 2:57pm On Apr 26, 2017

SHALOM!

Stewie101:
Finally, if we agree that the decision of whether or not to do or not to do something at a particular moment is modulated by prior influences that led up to that very moment, how then can we say that we have freewill? And how can an all wise God not know this? If he does know this, then how can divine justice systems be created around this knowledge? This is absurd.

SINCE GOD IS ALL-WISE, AND YOU, BY THE WORDS OF YOUR OWN ADMISSION, ARE ALL-STUPID, HOW CAN YOU JUDGE GOD, AND TELL HIM WHAT HIS CRITERIA OF JUDGMENT SHOULD BE?

He has told you what that is- but what if you are TOO STUPID to comprehend what that is?

[color=silver].[/color] ISAIAH 55:6-11.

6. Seek ye The LORD
while He may be found,
call ye upon Him
while He is near:
7. Let the Wicked forsake his Way,
and the Unrighteous man his Thoughts:
and let him return unto The LORD,
and He will have Mercy upon him;
and to our God,
for He will Abundantly Pardon.

8. "FOR MY THOUGHTS
ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS,
NEITHER ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS,"
SAITH THE LORD.
9. "FOR AS THE HEAVENS
ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH,
SO ARE MY WAYS
HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS,
AND MY THOUGHTS
THAN YOUR THOUGHTS.
10. "FOR AS THE RAIN COMETH DOWN,
AND THE SNOW FROM HEAVEN,
AND RETURNETH NOT THITHER,
BUT WATERETH THE EARTH,
AND MAKETH IT
BRING FORTH AND BUD,
THAT IT MAY GIVE SEED
TO THE SOWER,
AND BREAD TO THE EATER:
11. "SO SHALL MY WORD BE
THAT GOETH FORTH
OUT OF MY MOUTH:
IT SHALL NOT
RETURN UNTO ME VOID,
BUT IT SHALL ACCOMPLISH
THAT WHICH I PLEASE,
AND IT SHALL PROSPER
IN THE THING
WHERETO I SENT IT."

There is a good analogy I drew up that perfectly illustrates this point. Imagine if two people are participating in a race, and one of the participants is placed 10 metres away from the finish line while the other is placed 1000 metres away from the finish line, and these two are asked to begin the race at the same time, and whosoever wins gets rewarded and whosoever loses get punished. This is the kind of justice system Christianity and Islam constructs around their flawed notion of freewill.

BEING ALL-STUPID, HOW CAN YOU KNOW HOW BAD YOUR ANALOGY IS?

WHAT "RACE?"

WHAT "FINISH-LINE?"

WHAT "REWARD?"

WHAT "PUNISHMENT?"

WHAT "STARTING-TIME?"

When you do not define all these parameters, your "analogy" is nothing but a load of bullshit!

[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 20:1-16.

"FOR The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man
that is an householder,
which went out early in the morning
to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2. "And when he had agreed with the labourers
for a penny a day,
he sent them into his vineyard.
3. "And he went out about the third hour,
and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4. "And said unto them;

'GO YE ALSO INTO THE VINEYARD,
AND WHATSOEVER IS RIGHT
I WILL GIVE YOU.'

And they went their way.
5. "Again he went out
about the sixth and ninth hour,
and did likewise.
6. "And about the eleventh hour he went out,
and found others standing idle,
and saith unto them,

'Why stand ye here all the day idle?'

7. "They say unto him,

'BECAUSE NO MAN HATH HIRED US.'

He saith unto them,

'GO YE ALSO INTO THE VINEYARD;
AND WHATSOEVER IS RIGHT,
THAT SHALL YE RECEIVE.'

8. "So when even was come,
the lord of the vineyard
saith unto his steward,

'CALL THE LABOURERS,
AND GIVE THEM THEIR HIRE,
BEGINNING FROM THE LAST
UNTO THE FIRST.'

9. "And when they came
that were hired about the eleventh hour,
they received every man a penny.
10. "But when the first came,
they supposed
that they should have received more;
and they likewise received every man a penny.
11. "And when they had received it,
they murmured against the Goodman of the house,
12. "Saying,

'THESE LAST HAVE WROUGHT
BUT ONE HOUR,
AND THOU HAST
MADE THEM EQUAL UNTO US,
WHICH HAVE BORNE
THE BURDEN AND HEAT OF THE DAY.'

13. "But he answered one of them,
and said,

'FRIEND, I DO THEE NO WRONG:
DIDST NOT THOU AGREE WITH ME FOR A PENNY?
14. 'TAKE THAT THINE IS, AND GO THY WAY:
I WILL GIVE UNTO THIS LAST,
EVEN AS UNTO THEE.
15. 'IS IT NOT LAWFUL FOR ME
TO DO WHAT I WILL WITH MINE OWN?
IS THINE EYE EVIL,
BECAUSE I AM GOOD?'

16. "So the last shall be first,
and the first last:
for many be called,
but few chosen."

THERE IS BUT ONE SALVATION, AND ALL ARE EQUALLY-ELIGIBLE.

There is a DEADLINE, by which time THE ELITE will be chosen.

That has not happened yet.

Those who fail to make it can complain about being born too late, or some such rubbish.

[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 25:1-13.

“THEN shall The Kingdom of Heaven
be likened unto Ten Virgins,
which took their Lamps,
and went forth to meet the Bridegroom.
2. “And five of them were Wise,
and five were Foolish.
3. “They that were Foolish took their Lamps,
and took no oil with them:
4. “But the Wise took oil in their vessels
with their lamps.
5. “While the bridegroom tarried,
they all slumbered and slept.
6. “And at midnight there was a cry made,

‘BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH;
GO YE OUT TO MEET HIM.’

7. “Then all those Virgins arose,
and trimmed their lamps.
8. And the Foolish said unto the Wise,

‘GIVE US OF YOUR OIL;
FOR OUR LAMPS ARE GONE OUT.’

9. “But the Wise answered,
saying,

‘NOT SO; LEST THERE BE
NOT ENOUGH FOR US AND YOU:
BUT GO YE RATHER TO THEM THAT SELL,
AND BUY FOR YOURSELVES.’

10. “And while they went to buy,
the Bridegroom came;
and they that were Ready went in with him
to the marriage:
and the door was shut.
11. “Afterward came also the other Virgins,
saying,

‘LORD, LORD, OPEN TO US.’

12. “But he answered and said,

‘VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU,

“I KNOW YOU NOT.” ’

13. “Watch therefore,
for ye know neither the Day nor the Hour
wherein the Son of Man cometh."

THERE IS A SPIRITUAL EVENT, CALLED "THE RAPTURE," in which Christians who are deemed WORTHY are SUMMONED by The Lord to enter Heaven with him. (A thing which we are supposed to be used to- doing it three times per year, at least.)

Those taught by the lackwit Oyinbos do not know that A SPECIAL ANOINTING is REQUIRED to go up in "The Rapture."

That is what MY unique Doctrine is all about.

Many, if not ALL the NAIRALAND Christians are LAUGHING at me, right now- being assured by their "PASTORS" that they do not need what I am Teaching. By the time they learn that it is their PAID FLATTERERS who have DECEIVED them, it will be too late for some.

[color=silver].[/color] THE TEN TALENTS OF POWER. (Matthew 25:1-46.)

1. TOTAL RECALL.
2. EXTRASENSORY PERCEPTION.
3. TELEKINESIS.
4. TELEPORTATION.
5. TRANSLATION.
6-10. EVERLASTING LIFE.

[See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.]

IT IS THOSE WHO CAN ATTAIN THE 6th THROUGH 10th TALENTS THAT ELIJAH HAD, BUT ELISHA PEED AWAY, WHO WILL ENTER IN THIS FIRST RAPTURE.

NO ONE has reached that "FINISH LINE" in CHRISTIANITY, yet.

First, the decision to be a Christian or a Muslim is heavily influenced by factors that are not within the individual's control. Factors like geography for instance. It's more likely for a someone born in Enugu to become Christian than it is for someone born in Afghanistan. And it's more likely for someone who is born in Enugu to a strongly christian family to become a Christian, than it is for someone who is born to a secular family in Abuja. These variables matter.

These variables DO NOT MATTER: I have already debunked that ignorant excuse.

Also- are you using THE GOD DELUSION on us, WITHOUT CITING YOUR SOURCE?

That would be DISHONEST.

Also, in abiding by moral codes, we forget the role personality plays in the kind of actions we commit or are predisposed to commit, bearing in mind that the makeup of personalities aren't our own doing. We are just lucky or unlucky to have them.

As I have said before: EVERYONE HAS AN INBORN MORAL-CODE- called PAIN.

[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 7:7-12.

7. "Ask, and it shall be given you;
seek, and ye shall find; knock,
and it shall be opened unto you:
8. "For every one that asketh receiveth;
and he that seeketh findeth;
and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9. "Or what man is there of you,
whom if his son ask bread,
will he give him a stone?
10. "Or if he ask a fish,
will he give him a serpent?
11. "If ye then,
being Evil,
know how to give good gifts
unto your children,
how much more shall your Father
Which is in Heaven
give good things
to them that ask him?
12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law
and The Prophets."

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE, AND KNOW BETTER THAN TO DO IT TO OTHERS.

How then can we assert that every individual is solely responsible for every decision he makes? How can we say that certain people deserve eternal punishment for choosing to not belief in God and Jesus his son? How can we say that we are morally accountable for our actions and deserve perpetual, excruciating torment for these actions?

WHEN PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN UP RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR DECISIONS, THEY CANNOT CLAIM IRRESPONSIBILITY FOR THE REST OF THOSE DECISIONS.

[color=silver].[/color] MATTHEW 18:1-14.

AT the same time came the Disciples unto Jesus,
saying,
"Who is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?"
2. And Jesus called a little child unto him,
and set him in the midst of them,
3. And said,
"Verily I say unto you,

'EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED,
AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN,
YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO
THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.'

4. "Whosoever therefore shall
humble himself as this little child,
the same is greatest in The Kingdom of Heaven.
5. "And whoso shall receive
one such little child in my Name receiveth me.
6. "But whoso shall offend
one of these little ones
which believe in me,
it were better for him that a millstone
were hanged about his neck,
and that he were drowned
in the Depth of the Sea.
7. "Woe unto the World
because of offences!
for it must needs be
that offences come;
but woe to that man
by whom the offence cometh!
8. "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee,
cut them off,
and cast them from thee:
it is better for thee
to enter into life halt or maimed,
rather than having
two hands or two feet
to be cast into Everlasting Fire.
9. "And if thine eye offend thee,
pluck it out, and cast it from thee:
it is better for thee
to enter into Life with one eye,
rather than having two eyes
to be cast into Hell Fire.
10. "Take heed that ye despise not
one of these little ones;
for I say unto you,

'THAT IN HEAVEN
THEIR ANGELS DO ALWAYS
BEHOLD THE FACE OF MY FATHER
WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.'

11. "For the Son of Man is come
to save that which was lost."
12. “How think ye?
If a man have an hundred sheep,
and one of them be gone astray,
doth he not leave the ninety and nine,
and goeth into the mountains,
and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13. And if so be that he find it,
verily I say unto you,

'HE REJOICETH MORE OF THAT SHEEP,
THAN OF THE NINETY AND NINE
WHICH WENT NOT ASTRAY.'

14. "Even so
it is not The Will of your Father
Which is in Heaven,
that one of these little ones
should perish."

IF THERE IS ANY PART OF YOU THAT YOU FEEL YOU DO NOT CONTROL, BUT RATHER CONTROLS YOU, YOU SHOULD CUT IT THE HELL OFF, RATHER THAN LET IT TAKE YOU TO HELL!

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by Nobody: 3:07pm On Apr 26, 2017

An2elect2:
Do you believe the Bible?

I don't believe most of it's claims. And I certainly don't believe in the existence of the bible God or it's claim that Jesus was his son.

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by oaroloye(m): 3:10pm On Apr 26, 2017

SHALOM!

An2elect2:
Christianity does not teach free will to make divine decisions. It's not in the Bible and our fathers in the faith termed is as a damnable heresy.

WHAT RUBBISH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, NOW?

"FREE WILL" AND "DIVINE DECISIONS" are not terms found in The Bible, so how can you use them to make sense in relation to The Bible?

[color=silver].[/color] JOHN 15:1-8.

"I AM The True Vine,
and my Father is the Husbandman.
2. "Every branch in me
that beareth not fruit
He taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit,
He purgeth it,
that it may bring forth more fruit.
3. "Now ye are clean through the Word
which I have spoken unto you.
4. "Abide in me,
and I in you.

'AS THE BRANCH CANNOT
BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF,
EXCEPT IT ABIDE IN THE VINE;
NO MORE CAN YE,
EXCEPT YE ABIDE IN ME.'

5. "I am The Vine,
ye are the Branches:

'HE THAT ABIDETH IN ME,
AND I IN HIM,
THE SAME BRINGETH FORTH
MUCH FRUIT:'

for without me ye can do nothing.
6. "If a man abide not in me,
he is cast forth as a branch,
and is withered;
and men gather them,
and cast them into The Fire,
and they are burned.
7. "If ye abide in me,
and my Words abide in you,
ye shall ask what ye will,
and it shall be done unto you.
8. "Herein is my Father glorified,

'THAT YE BEAR MUCH FRUIT;'

so shall ye be my Disciples."

THE DISCIPLE OF YAHSHUA TELLS GOD WHAT THEY WANT, AND IT WILL BE GRANTED THEM.

THAT is the DEAL.

Do not confuse the age of apostasy or mass error for true Christianity.

THE HYPOCRITICAL SHILLS NEVER DEFINE WHAT VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, IN ORDER TO CREATE MORE CONFUSION.

[color=silver].[/color] ACTS 11:26.

26. And when he had found him,
he brought him unto Antioch.
And it came to pass,
that a whole year
they assembled themselves
with the Church,
and taught much people.
And the Disciples were called “CHRISTIANS”
first in Antioch.

[color=silver].[/color] LUKE 14:25-35.

25. And there went great multitudes with him:
and he turned,
and said unto them,

26. "If any man come to me,
and hate not his father,
and mother,
and wife, and children,
and brethren, and sisters,
yea, and his own life also,
he cannot be my Disciple.
27. "And whosoever doth not
bear his cross,
and come after me,
cannot be my Disciple.
28. "For which of you,
intending to build a tower,
sitteth not down first,
and counteth the cost,
whether he have sufficient
to finish it?
29. "Lest haply,
after he hath laid the Foundation,
and is not able to finish it,
all that behold it begin to mock him,

30. "Saying,

'THIS MAN BEGAN TO BUILD,
AND WAS NOT ABLE TO FINISH.'

31. "Or what king,
going to make war against another king,
sitteth not down first,
and consulteth whether he be able
with ten thousand
to meet him that cometh against him
with twenty thousand?
32. "Or else,
while the other is yet a great way off,
he sendeth an ambassage,
and desireth conditions of peace.
33. "So likewise,
whosoever he be of you
that forsaketh not all that he hath,
he cannot be my Disciple.
34. "Salt is good:
but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be seasoned?
35. "It is neither fit for the land,
nor yet for the dunghill;
but men cast it out.
He that hath ears to hear,
let him hear."

[color=silver].[/color] JOHN 8:30-32.

30. As he spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews
which believed on him,
"If ye continue in my Word,
then are ye my Disciples indeed;
32. "And ye shall know The Truth,
and The Truth shall make you free."

BTW, God is just and right to send everyone to their deserving place.

BUT THOSE WHO ARE THE NEGATIVE EFFECT OF THIS JUDGMENT NEVER SEEM TO LISTEN, WHEN CORRECTED.

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by oaroloye(m): 3:13pm On Apr 26, 2017

Stewie101:
I am open to debate if anyone doesn't agree with me.

I have no time to waste on PIGS.

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by oaroloye(m): 3:16pm On Apr 26, 2017

SHALOM!

An2elect2:
The criterion is our sinful nature we inherited from Adam because of his disobedience.

Romans5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Psalm 51:2 I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived, I have been sinful.

Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

These are examples that show men are born dead in sin and incapable of doing good such as choosing God. This was as a result of the fall of our first parents.

If that's the case, it follows that all men deserve to perish in hell since their choice is always evil and their ways not good or up to God's righteous standard.

So if any man will be saved it has to be by something outside of himself

That which was taught by CHRISTIANITY" is supposed to mean: "THAT WHICH WAS TAUGHT BY CHRIST."

Teach what CHRIST taught!

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by An2elect2(f): 3:20pm On Apr 26, 2017

Stewie101:
I don't believe most of it's claims. And I certainly don't believe in the existence of the bible God or it's claim that Jesus was his son.

Lol Then we can't have a discussion. Take care

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by An2elect2(f): 3:24pm On Apr 26, 2017

oaroloye:
SHALOM!

That which was taught by CHRISTIANITY" is supposed to mean: "THAT WHICH WAS TAUGHT BY CHRIST."

Teach what CHRIST taught!

If only you know the difference between the gospel of the Kingdom and that of free grace, and to whom each belong you will stop spamming people's mentions with nonsense

Re: The Non Existence Of Freewill And The Irrationality Of Divine Punishment. by ifenes(m): 3:35pm On Apr 26, 2017*

Stewie101:
So essentially we are at the mercy of our individual subconscious minds? And if we are created with intrinsically different subconscious minds, it means we have intrinsically different predetermined fates. Doesn't this still validate my initial claim that who we are and what we do, isn't within our control? We seem to be saying the same thing.

And I find it a bit disconcerting that you are making these assertive, elabotate claims about the existence and nature of our subconscious mind on the basis of no evidence at all besides new age books that you read.
Shouldn't you also give the Christians and Muslims the benefit of the doubt for believing in Souls and the afterlife on the basis of no evidence besides what's in their holy books, since you are also doing the same thing?

All the answers to our millions of questions are inside of us. This is why hipnotists need to put the conscious mind to sleep in order to tap into the real man/ subconscious/ God mind, who knows all things.

We haven't been taught how to make use out subconscious, instead we are taught to rely on logic and instincts. " Man know thyself" is only referring to us getting to know the inner man, our true essence.

Over the years many have tapped into it through various means like Meditations... The art of silencing the ego mind, the Buddhist monks knew exactly the importance.

Another way is to avoid resisting our highest excitement. Through doing the simplest things, as they build up to a bigger meaning to life.

Sorry I have to run now. I will talk more on this and address your comment.

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