₦airaland Forum

iamdrfresh:
I understand where you're coming from but my point is everything is predetermined...He, being d alpha and d omega, already knew that guy would not use his 1talent but decided to give him still. Right from d womb, he ordained Jeremiah a prophet.. He wasn't left with much of a choice tho.
Whether I'd fulfill my assignment or not, he already knows.

hey bro, let me begin by telling you I'm an atheist but I'm not here to convince you to leave Christianity

However your questions are valid and Christians would try their possible best to drown you in a sea of half answers and conjectures while quoting verses that are unrelated to the discussion and trying massaging such verses to look like its related, they'll lap up each other's posts like its the best thing since sliced bread but those answers would most likely leave you with even more doubts, I know this cuz I've been there

now down to business

the biggest problem with properties given to the Christian god is its incompatibility with each other

he's omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibelevolent etc

But wait! he has all these properties but gave humans freewill!!

obviously it becomes incompatible cuz an omniscient god that presents me with 10 billion choices HAS TO KNOW WHAT I'LL CHOSE; if he doesn't know then he's NOT omniscient!
if he does know then there's NO freewill!!!

If said omniscient being is also omnipotent and creates a living creature, it decides the nature and circumstances of that being and, thus, all decisions it will ever make from the moment it has the cognizance to do so.

its pretty obvious to any logical thinking human that those properties are too incompatible

The thing I really don't get about Christian insistence on a multi-omni God is that it buys them absolutely nothing but trouble. It doesn't solve the Euthyphro problem (and so doesn't ground their morality any better than that of any other deity or pantheon), it makes many things which wouldn't be problematic into problems demanding solutions or at least explanations; the insistence on omni qualities drives the need for theodicy and underwrites the problem of evil in the first place. It turns a hard-working but overworked (and continually exasperated) deity into a lazy jerkass who could do anything but doesn't because reasons.

I understand the historical/cultural forces that favored the adoption of Greek philosophic categories into nascent Christianity, but it is still pretty odd that it stuck, given that while it probably made increased its memetic survivability in the places where it originated, it does so by introducing much deeper systemic flaws which linger to this day, and are explicitly dangerous to the survivability of the religion in an age of mass literacy and open communication.

If I were a theist, I don't understand how I could believe in a single omnimax being. It's just inconsistent.

CC: darlingtonNYIG

iamdrfresh:
I understand where you're coming from but my point is everything is predetermined...He, being d alpha and d omega, already knew that guy would not use his 1talent but decided to give him still. Right from d womb, he ordained Jeremiah a prophet.. He wasn't left with much of a choice tho.
Whether I'd fulfill my assignment or not, he already knows.

Thanks for saying your mind, But a careful look at his qualities reveal Almighty God also have Self - Control . which is one of the fruits of the spirit., So Yes he has the power to foreknow But my dear brother he doesn't Use it at all times especially when it comes to our lives and freewill. He also exercise self control too.

consider what he told Jeremiah :


" Maybe they will pay attention and each of them will stop living the evil way they do. If they do that, then I will forgo destroying them as I had intended to do because of the wicked things they have been doing." Jer 26:3

I want you to pay attention to the Brown color, emphasis on " Maybe " or " perhaps they will listen" , those words indicate he doesnt really pre plan anything , Rather anticipate the response or Choice of the people.

hopefulLandlord:
hey bro, let me begin by telling you I'm an atheist but I'm not here to convince you to leave Christianity

However your questions are valid and Christians would try their possible best to drown you in a sea of half answers and conjectures while quoting verses that are unrelated to the discussion and trying massaging such verses to look like its related, they'll lap up each other's posts like its the best thing since sliced bread but those answers would most likely leave you with even more doubts, I know this cuz I've been there

now down to business

the biggest problem with properties given to the Christian god is its incompatibility with each other

he's omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibelevolent etc

But wait! he has all these properties but gave humans freewill!!

obviously it becomes incompatible cuz an omniscient god that presents me with 10 billion choices HAS TO KNOW WHAT I'LL CHOSE; if he doesn't know then he's NOT omniscient!
if he does know then there's NO freewill!!!

If said omniscient being is also omnipotent and creates a living creature, it decides the nature and circumstances of that being and, thus, all decisions it will ever make from the moment it has the cognizance to do so.

its pretty obvious to any logical thinking human that those properties are too incompatible

The thing I really don't get about Christian insistence on a multi-omni God is that it buys them absolutely nothing but trouble. It doesn't solve the Euthyphro problem (and so doesn't ground their morality any better than that of any other deity or pantheon), it makes many things which wouldn't be problematic into problems demanding solutions or at least explanations; the insistence on omni qualities drives the need for theodicy and underwrites the problem of evil in the first place. It turns a hard-working but overworked (and continually exasperated) deity into a lazy jerkass who could do anything but doesn't because reasons.

I understand the historical/cultural forces that favored the adoption of Greek philosophic categories into nascent Christianity, but it is still pretty odd that it stuck, given that while it probably made increased its memetic survivability in the places where it originated, it does so by introducing much deeper systemic flaws which linger to this day, and are explicitly dangerous to the survivability of the religion in an age of mass literacy and open communication.

If I were a theist, I don't understand how I could believe in a single omnimax being. It's just inconsistent.

CC: darlingtonNYIG

Batman Vs Superman(the movie) : The evil scientist said something that quite got my attention. "if God is all Good, He can't be all powerful and if He's all powerful, He can't be all good"
It somehow relates to ur point on Him being omnipresent.

I'm a thinking being myself, I ask questions(most of which I do not have answers to) prolly even beyond d ones you've asked yourself.

Eventually, I came to this conclusion. If we actually know everything about it, it wouldn't be called Faith.

I'm a Christian(more like Religion) and I'd like to remain like that.
I believe if there's a God and if we know him at all, we either know little / we prolly don't know who He really is.

I sound confused,right? Actually I'm but being an atheist would definitely not end my confusion.

analice107:
So, since he already knows your end, you'd better done nothing about it right?

Op, what is your grievance? You sound bitter.

Listen, our attitudes matters in life. God is not responsible for our bad manners and negative attitudes towards life.

With everything Joseph suffered, his attitude kept him alive until the end. He didn't go laying blames and getting angry and bitter against God and his brothers.

The choice is in your hands, why not rise up and take your life seriously? You want to lay blames on God, but take no responsibilities.
But, if you believe God knows whether you'll fail or succeed in life, so won't work to become anything in life, okay then. lie down, don't do anything. Sleep and enjoy your rest.


There are three forces involved in your life.

1. God.
2. You.
3. The adversary.

God: God wants your good, whatever he has given to you is for your profiting, but if you "choose" to rebel, He won't force you. He has created you Free, Choose to obey or disobey. Choose to do good or evil, its your choice. You'll ultimately reap what you sow.



You: You have a choice to make in life.

The Bible in Luke 8:11-15.

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Those by the way side are they that hear the Word of God; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

What kind of Seed are you? The Wayside Seed, The RockySeed, the StonySeed or the GoodgroundSeed?

Choose ye this day whom you'd serve. If you know you can't do it by God, then choose satan by all means. The choice is open.

The Adversary: The adversary knows you better than you know yourself. He has attached himself to your family from day one. He knows your destiny too, he would rather you remain down and poor blaming God for your woes than rising up to work and take your life in your hands.

He will hinder your growth, fight to keep anyone who can help you succeed in life away from you, except you consciously do something about it.

He will corrupt your harvest, he will make your efforts fruitless, but all the while turns your gaze against God. You'd never know he is there, that's becos he hides. He will have you deny his existence, he will have you get angry at God even when you know it's your own fault.

He'll turn your focus towards fellow humans, who are victims themselves. All your laziness and failure, will be the fault of witches and wizards, but never yours.

He will never make you see that you are on a wrong path, doing the wrong things. He will never make you see that you are a sinner and that Sin is a limitation.

He will push you to live a life of rebellion, without telling you that, when you do that, you set yourself up against the Lord of the Earth.

For Adam's Sins, the ground was cursed. For Eve's sin, Childbirth became laborious.

Adam's sins made the earth to revolt and refuse to give her adequate increase.

Satan won't let you know that working in Pride which brings in the fruits like, anger, bitterness, jealousy. haughtiness, malice, laziness, slothfulness, strive, stubbornness, aggression, stealing, lying, cheating, bribery to pervert justice, sexual immorality, temperament will destroy your life ultimately.

He will make you feel comfortable living with these vises in his domain, when the Word gets to you, he'll release guilt in you. He tell you how worthless you are, how God will never forgive a worthless sinner like you.

He will suggest suicide as the only way out.

But, how did it start? Your Will Power and the Power of Choice. You gave in to his voice of doubt and unbelief against God.

Well, i know you'd still say, God knew that all these will happen so should have stopped it.





To whom you yield your members to, you become servants to obey. If you yield to God, you'd become a servant of God, but if you yield to satan, you'd become his servant to obey him.
Romans 6:16.
Am done going back and forth on this.

Choose what you want to believe and stand by it, but be ready to enjoy it's fruits, for harvest time is eminent.

Shalom.

actually I'm bitter... I ask myself why is this world like this?
they say it's Adam, whose fault was it that Eve was deceived?
whose fault is it that Satan exists?

being a Christian does not exempt you from all of these sh*t in d world simply because Adam whom I never knew sinned.
Yeah He sent his son to die for our sins,right?
Sin of which I only heard of how it started.

What is d purpose of this world?

He might not be directly responsible for my bad manner and stuff but indirectly isn't He?

Romans6:16 Everything we know about Him, He revealed to us.
We've not heard Satan's part of the story.

Have u ever wondered if all of these is a game? what if he's d one orchestrating all d happenings in d world(d concept of Satan and all)?

You might seem disappointed but I'm only human and it's human to think!

Jozzy4:
Thanks for saying your mind, But a careful look at his qualities reveal Almighty God also have Self - Control . which is one of the fruits of the spirit., So Yes he has the power to foreknow But my dear brother he doesn't Use it at all times especially when it comes to our lives and freewill. He also exercise self control too.

consider what he told Jeremiah :


" Maybe they will pay attention and each of them will stop living the evil way they do. If they do that, then I will forgo destroying them as I had intended to do because of the wicked things they have been doing." Jer 26:3

I want you to pay attention to the Brown color, emphasis on " Maybe " or " perhaps they will listen" , those words indicate he doesnt really pre plan anything , Rather anticipate the response or Choice of the people.

isn't that all from what He told us? What if He controls our choice?
How can you be certain?

iamdrfresh:
isn't that all from what He told us? What if He controls our choice?
How can you be certain?

but His Son testifies that what he told us is the Truth ( John 17:17)

iamdrfresh:
actually I'm bitter... I ask myself why is this world like this?
they say it's Adam, whose fault was it that Eve was deceived?
whose fault is it that Satan exists?

being a Christian does not exempt you from all of these sh*t in d world simply because Adam whom I never knew sinned.
Yeah He sent his son to die for our sins,right?
Sin of which I only heard of how it started.

What is d purpose of this world?

He might not be directly responsible for my bad manner and stuff but indirectly isn't He?

Romans6:16 Everything we know about Him, He revealed to us.
We've not heard Satan's part of the story.

Have u ever wondered if all of these is a game? what if he's d one orchestrating all d happenings in d world(d concept of Satan and all)?

You might seem disappointed but I'm only human and it's human to think!

lol, So go.get Satan's side of the story.

goodluck with that.

Willzz:
@analice107, Am no fan of religion but I do believe in the Creator and that He has placed everything needed by us to be successful inside of us.
Anyways, your comments are amazing and inspiring. may the wisdom and knowledge of God, the Creator continue to grow in you..
Shalom.

Thanks for your kind words.

God bless.

he wasnt partial,just one sided..lol.. IF THATS NOT PARTIALITY,I WONDER WHAT YOU'D CALL IT

analice107:
lol, So go.get Satan's side of the story.
goodluck with that.

I hope you wouldn't mind joining me in this voyage of d search for truth? It promises to be interesting.

Jozzy4:
but His Son testifies that what he told us is the Truth ( John 17:17)

His son who assumably came in His form would definitely not tell us anything contrary to what his begotten father had told him.

iamdrfresh:
I hope you wouldn't mind joining me in this voyage of d search for truth?
It promises to be interesting.

I have Jesus already you see, this is the singular best thing that has ever happened to me. To be sincere with you, i won't exchange my relationship with Christ for the whole world put together.

Goodluck my dear may satan be kind to you.

iamdrfresh:
I hope you wouldn't mind joining me in this voyage of d search for truth? It promises to be interesting.

Jesus is the truth.

analice107:
I have Jesus already you see, this is the singular best thing that has ever happened to me. To be sincere with you, i won't exchange my relationship with Christ for the whole world put together.

Goodluck my dear may satan be kind to you.

I don't know what to say to that.. "Amen" would sound Christian like.

I just want to add a bit to what @analice107 et al have rightly stated.

It is true God plans/sets/determines our destinies & purpose in life. It is also true that God's plan for every individual is for good, and not evil. And as mortal men carrying the sin of flesh which originates from our foremost ancestor Adam, we all have individual weaknesses. Also, the destinies of every person may differ from that of others; i.e our respective destiny & purpose in life must not be the same.

Thus, in the case of Esau & Jacob, the destinies of these two (2) brothers as ordained by God differed. That does not mean Esau automatically had a doomed life; no.

Note that God may decide to destine Bro. A to become the President of Nigeria, while that of Bro. B is to become a Sch. Teacher. Would you then say Bro. B automatically has a doomed destiny & God was being partial in favour of Mr. A?
Of course not.
Both individuals have equal opportunity of being successful in their respective life pursuits, unless any one of them decides to abandon the way of the Lord. Only then will such destiny becomes doomed.

limamintruth:
I just want to add a bit to what @analice107 et al have rightly stated.

It is true God plans/sets/determines our destinies & purpose in life. It is also true that God's plan for every individual is for good, and not evil. And as mortal men carrying the sin of flesh which originates from our foremost ancestor Adam, we all have individual weaknesses. Also, the destinies of every person may differ from that of others; i.e our respective destiny & purpose in life must not be the same.

Thus, in the case of Esau & Jacob, the destinies of these two (2) brothers as ordained by God differed. That does not mean Esau automatically had a doomed life; no.

Note that God may decide to destine Bro. A to become the President of Nigeria, while that of Bro. B is to become a Sch. Teacher. Would you then say Bro. B automatically has a doomed destiny & God was being partial in favour of Mr. A?
Of course not.
Both individuals have equal opportunity of being successful in their respective life pursuits, unless any one of them decides to abandon the way of the Lord. Only then will such destiny becomes doomed.

That is it my dear. But, we humans want to become what others have become without finding out if can withstand the pressure that comes with their assignment.

Our pastors are mostly to blame for this. Oh well, most of them have no idea of what we are saying here.

Success is not acquiring all the wealth in the world. Success is discovering your purpose on earth, pursuing it, and accomplishing it. This is what the Bible calls, ENTERING YOUR REST.

As long as we are wrongly positioned, we can never walk out of struggles. It's like a Seed planted in a wrong soil and in a wrong climate.

This is the reason many resort to seeking the aid of the supernatural, hence, inviting demons to help them out.

Anyone who remains in God's rest will not lack anything. His/her basic needs will be provided. All we need is daily bread anyways.

iamdrfresh:
I don't know what to say to that.. "Amen" would sound Christian like.

That's all you need to say, Amen.

analice107:
That is it my dear. But, we humans want to become what others have become without finding out if can withstand the pressure that comes with their assignment.

Our pastors are mostly to blame for this. Oh well, most of them have no idea of what we are saying here.

Success is not acquiring all the wealth in the world. Success is discovering your purpose on earth, pursuing it, and accomplishing it. This is what the Bible calls, ENTERING YOUR REST.

As long as we are wrongly positioned, we can never walk out of struggles. It's like a Seed planted in a wrong soil and in a wrong climate.

This is the reason many resort to seeking the aid of the supernatural, hence, inviting demons to help them out.

Anyone who remains in God's rest will not lack anything. His/her basic needs will be provided. All we need is daily bread anyways.

True.
Success is not all about material wealth, but primarily having a fulfilled life that glorifies God and is also beneficial to oneself, as well as at least, someone out there.

limamintruth:
True.
Success is not all about material wealth, but primarily having a fulfilled life that glorifies God and is also beneficial to oneself, as well as at least, someone out there.

Very true.

You see,we don't just come up with the idea about God's sovereignty,this is one of the reasons......,if God cannot do what He likes or just make a decision on His own or choose whom he wants without following a rule or set standards,then He is still being checked,and if He is still being checked?.....,God is not God. These things remind us of God's sovereignty and not that He is partial....,accepting this amounts that you fear God,why we fear God is basically because He remains the only one who doesn't get checked.

limamintruth:
I just want to add a bit to what @analice107 et al have rightly stated.

It is true God plans/sets/determines our destinies & purpose in life. It is also true that God's plan for every individual is for good, and not evil. And as mortal men carrying the sin of flesh which originates from our foremost ancestor Adam, we all have individual weaknesses. Also, the destinies of every person may differ from that of others; i.e our respective destiny & purpose in life must not be the same.

Thus, in the case of Esau & Jacob, the destinies of these two (2) brothers as ordained by God differed. That does not mean Esau automatically had a doomed life; no.

Note that God may decide to destine Bro. A to become the President of Nigeria, while that of Bro. B is to become a Sch. Teacher. Would you then say Bro. B automatically has a doomed destiny & God was being partial in favour of Mr. A?
Of course not.
Both individuals have equal opportunity of being successful in their respective life pursuits, unless any one of them decides to abandon the way of the Lord. Only then will such destiny becomes doomed.

in all I have read, this is the clearest point here. To be sincere, I am not bitter nor have I a misplaced priority but I am being rational in my thinking to further understand what I practise. Thanks