₦airaland Forum

KingEbukaNaija:
Liar oshi !

I defined God on this thread which you made over 50 posts
https://www.nairaland.com/3553021/conclusion-atheism-illogical-atheist-delusion

You did on that thread, but you refused to do so on the other one.

You just defined God as nothing.

KingEbukasBlog:
God : The extremely powerful uncaused necessarily existing non-contingent non physical immaterial eternal being who created the universe and everything in it .

If God is immaterial then how does he have material attributes? For example you claim that he communicates with people allegedly, he even speaks with some. Many say that they hear his audible voice. These are material things. Speaking is a material act. Voice is material. How is your God immaterial but then exhibit material tendencies?

Just wondering, how someone who claimed rationalism, say the universe BEGIN to exist. And that something called God, caused the beginning.

But when the same "rational dude" was asked, if he can claim for a FACT, that he knows the universe BEGIN to exist, he went obfuscating.

Too many weed from the creationist sites!

KingEbukaNaija:
With science , we have determined the age of the universe .

For the one millionth time , prove that Stephen Hawking is false about a finite universe here .

www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

I was able to disprove his claim that the universe created Itself with reasons . So I'm waiting for your reason .

I don't want to appeal to authority, else I can also drop many scientist and their theories which suggest that the universe is eternal and ask you to disprove it. I am not here for a game. You just gave reasons why you disagree with his position that the universe did not create itself. You didn't disprove his claims. Am very sure if I present your objections to him, he will counter them.

Because we can't ascertain the time the universe will cease to exist does not mean its eternal . Because I don't know when you will cease to exist , does it make you eternal ?

You have conveniently avoided my refutation of an eternal universe with a cavil , a very petty objection . A blatant red herring as we will surely see in your next post .

Will there ever be a time where the universe will cease to exist and there will be absolutely nothing? Yes or no?

KingEbukaNaija:
Read the post and rebut . I rebutted your post by posting the right analogy . You have not refuted that post and the latest post to you . Its obvious that you have nothing reasonable to say just like your ilks .

Atheist logic : Evade logical thought that disproves my foolishness and use to the pooh pooh fallacy as a way of escape .

i rebutt by asking you to prove god exists while giving you reasons why you have to.

dalaman:
I don't want to appeal to authority, else I can also drop many scientist and their theories which suggest that the universe is eternal and ask you to disprove it. I am not here for a game. You just gave reasons why you disagree with his position that the universe did not create itself. You didn't disprove his claims. Am very sure if I present your objections to him, he will counter them.

Dr. Sean Carrol is a good example

dalaman:
You did on that thread, but you refused to do so on the other one.

You just defined God as nothing.

If God is immaterial then how does he have material attributes? For example you claim that he communicates with people allegedly, he even speaks with some. Many say that they hear his audible voice. These are material things. Speaking is a material act. Voice is material. How is your God immaterial but then exhibit material tendencies?

I have told you so many times about theophanies - the visible or material manifestation of God . As we see in the bible : the burning bush , the pillar of cloud , the pillar of fire , the divine visitation to Abraham etc .

Also , God is omnipotent and immanent . God's immanence makes it possible for It to manifest and encompass the material world . God's immanence made it possible for the unification of the divine Nature and Human nature in the person of Jesus Christ . That also makes it possible for God to dwell in us and communicate to us through any means . Some deists reject this attribute of God that's they believe God does not intervene in the affairs of the universe or humans .

hopefulLandlord:
Dr. Sean Carrol is a good example

You mean after he openly admitted that his model of an eternal universe has no evidence to support and that observational data point to a finite universe ? Why didn't he object Stephen Hawking's statement : Laws of physics predict that the universe had a beginning .

Atheists are just thriving in criticism and then ignorance of some people . You say things and hope your interlocutor does not understand or is not cognizant of your claims . Pathetic .

KingEbukaNaija:
You mean after he openly admitted that his model of an eternal universe has no evidence to support and that observational data point to a finite universe ? Why didn't he object Stephen Hawking's statement : Laws of physics predict that the universe had a beginning.

and where did I say anything about HIS model of the universe

you're proof understanding can be difficult

Atheists are just thriving in criticism and then ignorance of some people . You say things and hope your interlocutor does not understand or is not cognizant of your claims . Pathetic .

cognizant indeed

KingEbukaNaija:
This has nothing to do with my post . This a vacuous empty cop-out .

All what you atheists do is to regurgitate nonsense from atheist websites . You support empiricism , I support rationalism . Rationalism has depth because it can logically delve into realms our senses can't decipher .

Rationalism is an old concept. You can't rely on the abstract for proof of God's existence.

Do you forget what existence means?

Humans can imagine anything thanks to our complex brains. But does that make objects of my imagination real?

What you know as against what you conceive in the mind isn't the same. The human mind can do better than Yahweh if you want a fantasy contest.

Rationalism doesn't make you know a god. It only helps you create one in your head.

dalaman:
I don't want to appeal to authority, else I can also drop many scientist and their theories which suggest that the universe is eternal and ask you to disprove it. I am not here for a game. You just gave reasons why you disagree with his position that the universe did not create itself. You didn't disprove his claims. Am very sure if I present your objections to him, he will counter them.

Models for an entire universe have no evidence to back them up . So there is nothing to rebut . Its as simple as that .

Will there ever be a time where the universe will cease to exist and there will be absolutely nothing? Yes or no?

I don't know from science's perspective . But it does not affect my argument . Apparently , the question is a red herring .

KingEbukaNaija:
Read the post and rebut . I rebutted your post by posting the right analogy . You have not refuted that post and the latest post to you . Its obvious that you have nothing reasonable to say just like your ilks .

Atheist logic : Evade logical thought that disproves my foolishness and use to the pooh pooh fallacy as a way of escape .

i wonder why you can't argue without begging points from attacks and assumtions. Anytime you see the monika chemystery, keep that aside and face the argument. I can't be clutching on straws with you. Thanks as you comply

KingEbukaNaija:
I have told you so many times about theophanies - the visible or material manifestation of God . As we see in the bible : the burning bush , the pillar of cloud , the pillar of fire , the divine visitation to Abraham etc .

Also , God is omnipotent and immanent . God's immanence makes it possible for It to manifest and encompass the material world . God's immanence made it possible for the unification of the divine Nature and Human nature in the person of Jesus Christ . That also makes it possible for God to dwell in us and communicate to us through any means . Some deists reject this attribute of God that's they believe God does not intervene in the affairs of the universe or humans .

Stay in one place. Stop calling deist. God is immanent yet immaterial? Isn't that a contradiction ?

ScepticalPyrrho:
Rationalism is an old concept. You can't rely on an the abstract for proof of God's existence.

Do you forget what existence means?

I can imagine anything thanks to our complex brains. But does that make objects of my imagination real?

What you know as against what you conceive in the mind isn't the same. The human mind can do better than Yahweh if you want a fantasy contest.

Rationalism doesn't make you know a god. It only helps you create one in your head.

Empiricism is as old as rationalism . I think its older than rationalism because people have always depended on their senses which is in fact prone to errors .

Rationalism involves making deductions too and when we deduce , we are not creating imaginations we are simply drawing conclusions from already known facts .

dalaman:
Stay in one place. Stop calling deist. God is immanent yet immaterial? Isn't that a contradiction ?

How is it a contradiction ?

KingEbukaNaija:
Models for an entire universe have no evidence to back them up . So there is nothing to rebut . Its as simple as that .

Here is one.

https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html

I don't know from science's perspective . But it does not affect my argument . Apparently , the question is a red herring .

Its not a red herring. It is very pertinent and it affects your argument. If the universe is not eternal then it must have an end, a time where there will be nothing at all. If it will exist forever then it is not finite. So which one is it ?

KingEbukaNaija:
Empiricism is as old as rationalism . I think its older than rationalism because people have always depended on their senses which is in fact prone to errors .

Rationalism involves making deductions too and when we deduce , we are not creating imaginations we are simply drawing conclusions from already known facts .

which facts led to your conclusion that God exists?

hopefulLandlord:
so you accept biblical creation stories?

I don't.

onyenze123:
I don't.

but you accept that a god at some point said "let us make man in our own image"? I thought that is in the bible....

hopefulLandlord:
Dr. Sean Carrol is a good example

Not only him. Allen Guth as well.

KingEbukaNaija:
Empiricism is as old as rationalism . I think its older than rationalism because people have always depended on their senses which is in fact prone to errors .

Rationalism involves making deductions too and when we deduce , we are not creating imaginations we are simply drawing conclusions from already known facts .

MAny times deductions have been shown to be false and unreliable as a means of knowing things.

hopefulLandlord:
but you accept that a god at some point said "let us make man in our own image"? I thought that is in the bible....

Yes it is in the bible and other religious text.

the true “image” of God is pure Spirit, the very same pure spirit of which everything and everyone, including all animals are equal aspects, and all are therefore equal aspects of The Source.

Why does Princess Ebuka always like degrading his intelligence when making arguments? is it an act of being insincere to himself ni?

Deicide:
Why does Princess Ebuka always like degrading his intelligence when making arguments? is it an act of being insincere to himself ni?

Its both.

dalaman:
Its both.

Lol he started the thread with images that don't even relate to Atheism and the funny part is that he knows its bullshit or maybe he i just tired of having sound Arguments.....

6barz:
I knew you were going to suck me into defining God and asking me to prove if he exists. So as not to run along in circles, I will try to buttress my stance.

My definition of God will be the process that started everything. I guess my usage of the term 'God' caught you offguard. Just like I said in my initial op, God means different things to different people - whatever God means.

For example, you stated that if God exists, we won't have arguments, we will have God. What I read was if the process exists, we won't have arguments, we will have the process.

Do I believe in the process? Yes. Do I believe in religion, No. I see religion as a man-made construct to rationalise the process into something understandable and human like. Just like I see atheism as another man-made construct.

I hope you understand how I feel when someone says 'I have been a Christian all my life and suddenly I felt empty. I am now an atheist. That's such a joke...

Just like Billyonaire always say. I dislike labels.

Scenario

Do you believe your 10th generation Grandfather existed? I am certain your answer will be yes. If I ask you for proof, you will most likely point to your Grandfather, your father and yourself.

If I insist on proof about your 10th generation Grandfather alone, you won't be able to give me any tangible proof. No birth records, no pictures, no books or journals or scrolls.

Can we then say due to the absence of verifiable documents, your 10th generation Grandfather do not exist?

Your analogy was very succinct. Respect sire.

SirWere:
Your analogy was very succinct. Respect sire.

chai, Respect from me too

nice thread!