PastorAIO:


Even the Catholics, from the Presbyterians, to the Burn Agains are all referring to a different entity.

. Catholics are referring to a different God , Presbyterians are worshiping a different God and Born Agains are worshiping a different God . You claim all of them are imaginary or man made conceptions , this is an opinion and you too must be referring to a different God ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Historically speaking too , Christianity , Islam and Judaism are worshiping the same God
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

The Gods of these religions are not historical personalities.

Jesus was an historical personality.

From this historical guy many theologies have been developed and they are all very different from each other.

KingEbukasBlog:

. Catholics are referring to a different God , Presbyterians are worshiping a different God and Born Agains are worshiping a different God . You claim all of them are imaginary or man made conceptions , this is an opinion and you too must be referring to a different God ?

Possibly.

PastorAIO:


Possibly.

Not at all sir . Someone can be wrong about someone else's personality , it does not mean that they are referring to a different person. There is a creator of the universe of the universe undoubtedly , someone can be right or wrong about Its attributes . That's the way it is .

KingEbukasBlog:


Not at all sir . Someone can be wrong about someone else's personality , it does not mean that they are referring to a different person. There is a creator of the universe of the universe undoubtedly , someone can be right or wrong about Its attributes . That's the way it is .

Have you heard of egregores?

I believe they exist and I believe that is what you are dealing with when you see christians gathered. Their Yahweh is just a big Egregore. Allah is another Egregore. etc etc

randomperson:
One question about morality

Does God prohibit killing because it's bad or is killing bad because God prohibited it?

If it's the former, it means there is a higher reason or morality than God.

If it's the latter, it means God acts without reason or purpose i.e. insanity

How long will you continue to regurgitate this "Eutyphro dilemma" which is a dilemma only for the ignorant ones? The answer is very simple: killing is bad because GOD prohibits it. GOD is the source of morality.

DoctorAlien:


How long will you continue to regurgitate this "Eutyphro dilemma" which is a dilemma only for the ignorant ones? The answer is very simple: killing is bad because GOD prohibits it. GOD is the source of morality.

Does God have a reason for prohibiting killing? If he doesn't, he acts without reason. If he does, there is a higher reason than god he subjects to

This question is one of the major objections to divine command theory under Philosophy 105, a university course. So I couldn't care less if Doctor Alien on nairaland wants to dismiss the question because he can't explain the dilemma

felixomor:


Keep writing your own "Neo-koranic" scriptures there
U will soon turn to Otem......

Sorry I couldn't help it.

OtemAtum

bennyann:




Sorry I couldn't help it.

OtemAtum

LOL

randomperson:

Does God have a reason for prohibiting killing? If he doesn't, he acts without reason. If he does, there is a higher reason than god he subjects to

This question is one of the major objections to divine command theory under Philosophy 105, a university course. So I couldn't care less if Doctor Alien on nairaland wants to dismiss the question because he can't explain the dilemma

That something was done without a "reason" does not necessarily make it unacceptable, just as an action is not necessarily acceptable just because it was done with a "reason".

DoctorAlien:


That something was done without a "reason" does not necessarily make it unacceptable, just as an action is not necessarily acceptable just because it was done with a "reason".

Are u agreeing that God doesn't have a reason for prohibiting killing?
And the question is not whether it's acceptable or not, the question is does God act without purpose or reason. If he does, God is unreasonable and arbitrary

Evangkatsoulis:


Genius! But sir why you no dey pick your mail?

Can you stop spamming my mailbox please. I don't know you and I don't want to know you. Good luck.

randomperson:


Are u agreeing that God doesn't have a reason for prohibiting killing?
And the question is not whether it's acceptable or not, the question is does God act without purpose or reason. If he does, God is unreasonable and arbitrary

A person who performs an action without a reason is not necessarily unreasonable. Just like doing something with a reason doesn't necessarily make a person reasonable.

randomperson:


Are u agreeing that God doesn't have a reason for prohibiting killing

God prohibits murder not killing .

There are many things that can lead to murdering someone - jealousy, hatred etc . The act of murdering someone is an act of wickedness and the aforementioned evil can be the cause of murder . And since God is the epitome of moral goodness, God is good meanwhile evil is the departure from good. These moral laws are in accordance to God's nature .

And our understanding of evil and good helped us construct the moral argument for God's existence.

1. if God does not exist , objective morals , values and duties do not exist

2. objective moral values and duties exist

3. Therefore , God exists.

As an atheist , morality is subjective to you ; why do you then condemn people who commit genocide and murder ? I mean if morality is down to just societal laws and personal perspective, then people who commit genocide, murder , oppress and torture people are doing good since its a norm in their society and it's a good thing from their perspective.

Honestly , there are no wise atheists; any atheist who discusses morality or condemns someone is just shooting himself on the foot . Because there is no reason at all to condemn someone else since you claim morality is subjective . You just making a fool of yourself whenever that happens,

KingEbukasBlog:


God prohibits murder not killing .

There are many things that can lead to murdering someone - jealousy, hatred etc . The act of murdering someone is an act of wickedness and the aforementioned evil can be the cause of murder . And since God is the epitome of moral goodness, God is good meanwhile evil is the departure from good. These moral laws are in accordance to God's nature .

And our understanding of evil and good helped us construct the moral argument for God's existence.

1. if God does not exist , objective morals , values and duties do not exist

2. objective moral values and duties exist

3. Therefore , God exists.

As an atheist , morality is subjective to you ; why do you then condemn people who commit genocide and murder ? I mean if morality is down to just societal laws and personal perspective, then people who commit genocide, murder , oppress and torture people are doing good since its a norm in their society and it's a good thing from their perspective.

Honestly , there are no wise atheists; any atheist who discusses morality or condemns someone is just shooting himself on the foot . Because there is no reason at all to condemn someone else since you claim morality is subjective . You just making a fool of yourself whenever that happens,

1. Murder is the unjustifiable killing of another human being. Unless you can provide justification for all the killings carried out by God in the bible, your distinguishing of murder and killing is redundant and desperate.

2. It doesn't matter how many lines of balderdash u write, studies, stats and facts show that Christians are less compassionate than atheists, they are more likely to be racists, are more likely to be criminals. Every single measure shows that atheists are more humane than Christians.

3. You say morality is objective and given by God. This claim is just ridiculous in light of changing morality. The morality of the 16th century is markedly different from that of the 21st century. Apart from that, morality is subject to place. The morality of the Arabs is different from that of the Europeans. So how come morality is objective.

And to the crux of my original comment, that God is the giver of morality doesn't explain the reason for deciding what is moral or not. Why does God decide one act is moral and another is immoral.

DoctorAlien:


A person who performs an action without a reason is not necessarily unreasonable. Just like doing something with a reason doesn't necessarily make a person reasonable.

A person who performs an action is unreasonable. Only mad men or people with diminished mental capacities act or make choices without reas without reason.
But that's not even the point. The question is that does God arbitrarily decide what's good and what's not?

randomperson:

1. Murder is the unjustifiable killing of another human being. Unless you can provide justification for all the killings carried out by God in the bible, your distinguishing of murder and killing is redundant and desperate.

2. It doesn't matter how many lines of balderdash u write, studies, stats and facts show that Christians are less compassionate than atheists, they are more likely to be racists, are more likely to be criminals. Every single measure shows that atheists are more humane than Christians.

3. You say morality is objective and given by God. This claim is just ridiculous in light of changing morality. The morality of the 16th century is markedly different from that of the 21st century. Apart from that, morality is subject to place. The morality of the Arabs is different from that of the Europeans. So how come morality is objective.

And to the crux of my original comment, that God is the giver of morality doesn't explain the reason for deciding what is moral or not. Why does God decide one act is moral and another is immoral.

Its obvious you have no knowledge of the reason why the Moral argument exists . Explaining it would be a waste of time seeing that you don't understand what it means that morality is subjective : what you see as evil , another sees as good and vice versa ; there is no need to justify anything. There is a big wound on your feet , you inflicted on yourself, can you see it ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Its obvious you have no knowledge of the reason why the Moral argument exists . Explaining it would be a waste of time seeing that you don't understand what it means that morality is subjective : what you see as evil , another sees as good and vice versa ; there is no need to justify anything. There is a big wound on your feet , you inflicted on yourself, can you see it ?

I don't get it, atheists insist morality is subjective but continue to construct ethical arguments against God, arguments that will only have any strength if morality is objective, something which they deny. Then later they'll speak on moral issues as if morality is objective, saying stuff like "moral progress", "absolutely wrong" etc. It's something I constantly see atheists do , from online atheists to Richard Dawkins.

KingEbukasBlog:


Its obvious you have no knowledge of the reason why the Moral argument exists . Explaining it would be a waste of time seeing that you don't understand what it means that morality is subjective : what you see as evil , another sees as good and vice versa ; there is no need to justify anything. There is a big wound on your feet , you inflicted on yourself, can you see it ?

Mehn... Shut the f*ck up!
You can't claim there is objective morality when morality is subject to time and place. Your morality is subject to the bible, some others are subject to the Qur'an. Morality is always influenced by environment and since environments differ, moralities differ

Richirich713:


I don't get it, atheists insist morality is subjective but continue to construct ethical arguments against God, arguments that will only have any strength if morality is objective, something which they deny. Then later they'll speak on moral issues as if morality is objective, saying stuff like "moral progress", "absolutely wrong" etc. It's something I constantly see atheists do , from online atheists to Richard Dawkins.

Exactly my brother . They are not smart so they don't understand that since morality is subjective, there is no need to accuse God or anyone of committing evil , because those acts are seen as good from the perspective of the accused.

randomperson:

Mehn... Shut the f*ck up!
You can't claim there is objective morality when morality is subject to time and place. Your morality is subject to the bible, some others are subject to the Qur'an. Morality is always influenced by environment and since environments differ, moralities differ

This!

KingEbukasBlog:


Exactly my brother . They are not smart so they don't understand that since morality is subjective, there is no need to accuse God or anyone of committing evil , because those acts are seen as good from the perspective of the accused.

Even if we agree that morality is objective it's because humans have made it so. You can't use any God as the source of human morality because your God fails at it. A God that supports and encourages slavery for example can NOT be said to be the source of human objective morality. The bible says that he who disbelieves in Christ is condemned already. What kind of nonsensical morality is that that is predicted on belief in the life and teachings of a dead man?

The human mind can perform amazing gymnastics. Anything can be rationalized. Any story that ties itself off, however absurd, can be believed by man, especially if that's what they had been told as children when theIR minds and world still glowed with magic. It's hard to let go of what "feels" true.
That's why people still believe these things like God is the source of human morality and other such nonsense.
For those of you familiar with literature, it's basically "deus ex machina". The human mind IS the God machine.

The God centered morality is subjective bexause it is based on the need to escape damnation and not necessarily for the well being of all humans. What kind of morality is it that is entirely predicated on a self-interested desire to escape damnation or the wrath of some God? This seems to bypass the very core of what we mean by morality, which is an actual concern for the welfare of other human beings regardless of race, gender and sexuality. Clearly it is possible to teach our children to form such a concern and to grow in empathy and compassion without lying to ourselves or to them about the nature of the universe,without pretending to know things we do not know.

I mean ask yourself, which is more moral?Helping the poor, feeding the hungry, defending the weak,out of a mere concern for their wellbeing, or doing so because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it.The truth is people do not need to be threatened with damnation to love their children, to love their friends, to want to collaborate with strangers, or indeed to recognize that helping strangers and colaborating with them to solve the myriad of challenges facing humanity can be one of their greatest sources of happiness

God didn't promise us anything. We made him up to try and explain why there is rain and sorrow and pain in our world. We want an explanation for the ugliness around us that we seem to be helpless against. We then created God and the after life to ease our minds and create a world with less anxiety because we know that this is only temporary and we really hope that there will be something better when we die.

The truth is rain and sorrow and pain are simply our reality. There is no reason for it. The sorrow and pain are the result of humans being human. Until we learn to further evolve and learn how to live together without wanting what each other has because we think their toys are better we're going to continue to live in a world with sorrow and pain.

KingEbukasBlog:


God prohibits murder not killing .

There are many things that can lead to murdering someone - jealousy, hatred etc . The act of murdering someone is an act of wickedness and the aforementioned evil can be the cause of murder . And since God is the epitome of moral goodness, God is good meanwhile evil is the departure from good. These moral laws are in accordance to God's nature .

Going by this claim you have just agreed that your God is a murderer. He said he is a Jealous God and commanded people to kill their own brothers if they entice them to worship other Gods out of jealousy. The bible has God doing evil and repenting from his evil deeds, how then is this God the epitome of moral goodness? How can the epitome of moral goodness and perfection engage in evil? Seems you are drunk and do not know what you are saying all the time.

And our understanding of evil and good helped us construct the moral argument for God's existence.

1. if God does not exist , objective morals , values and duties do not exist

2. objective moral values and duties exist

3. Therefore , God exists.

Even if we all agree that morality is objective I'll show you how your God violates it. I will list just 2 objective moral values and duties and I will show how your God violates all 3.

1. It is wrong to kill innocent children from the wrong doings of their parents.
2. It is wrong to kill others because they chose to worship different God's or practice a different religion.

Read the bible and you'll see your God violating these objective moral principles that every body will agree to.

As an atheist , morality is subjective to you ; why do you then condemn people who commit genocide and murder ? I mean if morality is down to just societal laws and personal perspective, then people who commit genocide, murder , oppress and torture people are doing good since its a norm in their society and it's a good thing from their perspective.

Honestly , there are no wise atheists; any atheist who discusses morality or condemns someone is just shooting himself on the foot . Because there is no reason at all to condemn someone else since you claim morality is subjective . You just making a fool of yourself whenever that happens,

Humans have used themselves as the rallying point of what ever moral code of conduct they chose to live by. Our morality is always evolving based on standards set by we humans. Remember when slavery was acceptable your God was busy telling people how to sell their daughters into slavery.

I think Dalaman has closed this argument on morality as usual.

4kings:
I think Dalaman has closed this argument on morality as usual.

In your mind.

felixomor:


In your mind.

And in reality.

But objective morals do not exist!

KingEbukasBlog:


God prohibits murder not killing .

There are many things that can lead to murdering someone - jealousy, hatred etc . The act of murdering someone is an act of wickedness and the aforementioned evil can be the cause of murder . And since God is the epitome of moral goodness, God is good meanwhile evil is the departure from good. These moral laws are in accordance to God's nature .

And our understanding of evil and good helped us construct the moral argument for God's existence.

1. if God does not exist , objective morals , values and duties do not exist

2. objective moral values and duties exist

3. Therefore , God exists.

As an atheist , morality is subjective to you ; why do you then condemn people who commit genocide and murder ? I mean if morality is down to just societal laws and personal perspective, then people who commit genocide, murder , oppress and torture people are doing good since its a norm in their society and it's a good thing from their perspective.

Honestly , there are no wise atheists; any atheist who discusses morality or condemns someone is just shooting himself on the foot . Because there is no reason at all to condemn someone else since you claim morality is subjective . You just making a fool of yourself whenever that happens,

dalaman:


Going by this claim you have just agreed that your God is a murderer. He said he is a Jealous God and commanded people to kill their own brothers if they entice them to worship other Gods out of jealousy. The bible has God doing evil and repenting from his evil deeds, how then is this God the epitome of moral goodness? How can the epitome of moral goodness and perfection engage in evil? Seems you are drunk and do not know what you are saying all the time.

I'm not sure why you accuse God of being evil since morality is subjective . Its like you guys don't understand you don't judge someone by your personal moral standards since morality is subjective . God is the epitome of moral goodness by His standards . Is this difficult to understand ?

dalaman:

Even if we all agree that morality is objective I'll show you how your God violates it. I will list just 2 objective moral values and duties and I will show how your God violates all 3.

1. It is wrong to kill innocent children from the wrong doings of their parents.
2. It is wrong to kill others because they chose to worship different God's or practice a different religion.

Is it considered evil when a lion kills a child for his food ? Do you consider killing a lion for food consumption evil ?

dalaman:

Read the bible and you'll see your God violating these objective moral principles that every body will agree to.

There is no violation of any moral principles . You can't judge objective moral values and duties from a subjective perspective

dalaman:

Humans have used themselves as the rallying point of what ever moral code of conduct they chose to live by. Our morality is always evolving based on standards set by we humans. Remember when slavery was acceptable your God was busy telling people how to sell their daughters into slavery.

That why you clearly said you will allow your son to engage in bestiality since morality is evolving . That's why atheists killed 250 million people because they believed morality is evolving and carrying sanguinary campaigns against people who believe in God in a springboard for revolution. And those atheists believed they did good.

PastorAIO:
But objective morals do not exist!

Showing love , kindness , empathy , justice etc , these are objectively good . Greed , hatred these are objectively bad . If we agree that there is evil , then we agree that there is good ; if we agree that good and evil exist then we agree that there are moral laws to guide us on what is good and evil ; if we agree that there are moral laws then the corollary is to affirm the existence of a moral law giver who is a pinnacle of moral perfection . Its just simple logic .

You can't say God committed evil when you claim morality is subjective . You don't judge God or another by your own moral standards or societal laws . Atheists claim that morality is subjective then go around accusing God of being evil (that's dystheism ). It does not make sense , utterly asinine . Morality being subjective logically exculpates God of any evil . I don't know how this eludes you people .

dalaman:


Even if we agree that morality is objective it's because humans have made it so. You can't use any God as the source of human morality because your God fails at it. A God that supports and encourages slavery for example can NOT be said to be the source of human objective morality. The bible says that he who disbelieves in Christ is condemned already. What kind of nonsensical morality is that that is predicted on belief in the life and teachings of a dead man?

The human mind can perform amazing gymnastics. Anything can be rationalized. Any story that ties itself off, however absurd, can be believed by man, especially if that's what they had been told as children when theIR minds and world still glowed with magic. It's hard to let go of what "feels" true.
That's why people still believe these things like God is the source of human morality and other such nonsense.
For those of you familiar with literature, it's basically "deus ex machina". The human mind IS the God machine.

The God centered morality is subjective bexause it is based on the need to escape damnation and not necessarily for the well being of all humans. What kind of morality is it that is entirely predicated on a self-interested desire to escape damnation or the wrath of some God? This seems to bypass the very core of what we mean by morality, which is an actual concern for the welfare of other human beings regardless of race, gender and sexuality. Clearly it is possible to teach our children to form such a concern and to grow in empathy and compassion without lying to ourselves or to them about the nature of the universe,without pretending to know things we do not know.

I mean ask yourself, which is more moral?Helping the poor, feeding the hungry, defending the weak,out of a mere concern for their wellbeing, or doing so because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it.The truth is people do not need to be threatened with damnation to love their children, to love their friends, to want to collaborate with strangers, or indeed to recognize that helping strangers and colaborating with them to solve the myriad of challenges facing humanity can be one of their greatest sources of happiness

God didn't promise us anything. We made him up to try and explain why there is rain and sorrow and pain in our world. We want an explanation for the ugliness around us that we seem to be helpless against. We then created God and the after life to ease our minds and create a world with less anxiety because we know that this is only temporary and we really hope that there will be something better when we die.

The truth is rain and sorrow and pain are simply our reality. There is no reason for it. The sorrow and pain are the result of humans being human. Until we learn to further evolve and learn how to live together without wanting what each other has because we think their toys are better we're going to continue to live in a world with sorrow and pain.

These are assumptions . There is no evidence that this is the truth . You can't make assumptions and proclaim that it is the truth . Its that simple . You are making so many assertions and conjectures and drawing false conclusions . There is no evidence with certitude that there is no God . It is an assumption that man created God to provide an answer to mysteries . There is no evidence to support that claim.

KingEbukasBlog:


These are assumptions . There is no evidence that this is the truth . You can't make assumptions and proclaim that it is the truth . Its that simple . You are making so many assertions and conjectures and drawing false conclusions . There is no evidence with certitude that there is no God . It is an assumption that man created God to provide an answer to mysteries . There is no evidence to support that claim.

You can not point to any God without man made input. Man made arguments, man made religions, man made culture, made man everything. No God can be shown to exist on its own without man made input. The sun can be shown to exist on its own without any man made input because it exist. God can't be shown to exist without any man made input because it remains a man made idea.

KingEbukasBlog:


I'm not sure why you accuse God of being evil since morality is subjective . Its like you guys don't understand you don't judge someone by your personal moral standards since morality is subjective . God is the epitome of moral goodness by His standards . Is this difficult to understand ?

I didn't accuse God of being evil. He confessed he did evil and repented by his words. It's not an accusation. No where in the bible did God ever mention or claim to be the epitome of moral goodness. It is jut a lie formulated by christian apologist like William Craig and parrot by the likes of you.

Is it considered evil when a lion kills a child for his food ? Do you consider killing a lion for food consumption evil ?

So objective morality is supposed to apply to wild animals that live in the jungle? You are so off point that it is now pathetic. I feel bad for you.

There is no violation of any moral principles . You can't judge objective moral values and duties from a subjective perspective

Where is the objective mral values and duties that your God has displayed and shown to abide by? Is it ever right to kill innocent childrenfor what they know nothing about?

That why you clearly said you will allow your son to engage in bestiality since morality is evolving . That's why atheists killed 250 million people because they believed morality is evolving and carrying sanguinary campaigns against people who believe in God in a springboard for revolution. And those atheists believed they did good.

Mr lie lie, I can see that you are pained. I told you to show me where I supported beastiality and you ran away because you can't. Now you are here again with your lies. When genocide, slavery, land grab and all forms of evil acts were acceptable your God was there spearheading hos men and giving injunctions on how it is to be carried out. Objective morality indeed. You are always empty.