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African Militaries - Discussed And Dissected / African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread / What Countries Have The Weakest Militaries In Africa? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 2:21pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Covert1: Bro I got your message from the other thread. Sorry for the late response, I've been busy and I only read few posts on Nairaland. I think nemesis2u mixed things up this time. The bolded part caused the whole issue. It all started with radar detecting a submarine that is not submerge. bro i always felt ur a sensible person so let me correct u 2 Likes |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 2:23pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
nemesis2u: the radars of a ship will never be able to pick up a un-submerged submarine, forget about a submarine snorkel , against the heavy sea clutter. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 2:44pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Iblawi1:@Covert1 |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by DonBobes(m): 4:01pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Iblawi1:To put u straight d radar of a surface ship will pick dat of a submarine faster dan vice-versa 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 4:36pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Iblawi1: i did not mix up anything , u guys r needless getting tangled in English comprehension issues . 1.a submarine will be un-sumberged while in dock/harbor or while transitioning designated international water lanes as mandated by international sea laws. 2.a submarine while on patrol will be submerged while using the electric batteries. 3.a submarine while on patrol will be at snorkel depth while using the diesel engines.(only top portion of the snorkel will be above water) 4.a submarine while in enemy waters will be at periscope depth scanning for targets. (only top portion of the periscope will be above water) 5.a submarine while in enemy waters will be at mast depth while using the ESM/RF sensors (only top portion of the extendable ESM/RF sensors will be above water) why the heck will a submarine un-submerge in enemy waters ? unless the submarine crew is feeling suicidal. and even if a submarine does un-submerge in enemy waters due to technical problems or any other reasons. the radars of a ship will never be able to pick up the un-submerged submarine, forget about a submarine snorkel/periscope , against the heavy sea clutter due to limitations of radar horizon, the heavy sea clutter and the limitations of the radar itself . do u guys know that the snorkel / periscope / extendable sensor mast of a submarine is treated with radar absorbing paint.this is done to defeat ASW helicopters , ASW MPA equipped with radars . what chance does a ship based radar stand against all this ? if u guys can find a reference where ship based radars can detect a un-submerged submarine forget about a submarine snorkel/periscope in the high seas plz inform me of the same and i will be very glad to correct my info and apologize. thank u note : a aegis class radar can detect a sea skimming AShM missile at ranges of 25-30km so good luck having a radar to detect a submarine half submerged (un submerged) in water at ranges of even 25-30km provided u r not busy saving ur ship from the salvo of incoming torpedoes. well in reality a un-submerged submarine cannot fire its torpedoes but reality is the last think one bothers about in online discussions isnt it sea skimming = flying at wave top heights 3 Likes |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 5:13pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Iblawi1: bro what does the above statement of mine means ? it means 1. radars of a ship will never be able to pick up a un-submerged submarine. 2. and therefor radars of a ship can not pick up a submarine snorkel. and this is what i wrote here "can a ship borne radar detect a submarine periscope in high seas" what does it imply indirectly in context of the whole discussion? if a ship borne radar can detect a very small submarine periscope in high seas then detecting a un-submerged submarine will be a child's play for the ship borne radar isnt it? so is there any explicit difference between the 2 statements of mine in context of the overall discussion ? 3 Likes |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 6:11pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
nemesis2u: Nemesis2u you've already answered it already. The initial statement covers two things while the recent one only speak of submarine snorkeling with just the periscope visible from above. No need for you guys to get worked up. Radars and other technologies used on ships vary from the other. It will be meaningless generalizing the capabilities of ships and radars as one. Besides, real militaries use technologies/ techniques that are not common. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 6:13pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
Iblawi1: correct but somethings will always remain common |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 6:17pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
nemesis2u: Yes, I know that. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by MikeCZA: 6:24pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
nemesis2u: Besides prior surfacing the submarine will conduct surveillance or check any radar activity with it's ESM or the radar warning receiver system mounted on different antennas. 1. Charging batteries will be done outside the patrol or operational area. 2. So the sub will go into operational to hunt for targets or do whatever it is there to do. Then leave the area to recharge it's batteries. 3 Likes |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 6:28pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
MikeCZA: yeah 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 10:33pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
jln115: A great thing we can reason. But let's not turn the truth on it's head. Pls pls u have great submarines, I do not dispute that but don't call a fly a bird. That's a stretch. Everyone knows the difference. Nuclear submarines have more than just endurance. They are faster, quieter (new tech in d. E arguably close). They have longer range (surfaced & submerged) and pack greater firepower etc. It is ignorance to think AIP has nothing to do with stealth. Beyond endurance it contributes immensely to a subs quietness. Air Independent Propulsion is dissimilar engine configuration as a d. E sub. Gotland class can stay submerged for weeks not months like a Nuke sub. Heroine class must snorkel within a 24hr period. Those are the facts except u're furnishing us with 'alternative facts'. Not only superpowers can project men and equipment. Regional powers do too. A submarine is only a factor in the equation of military arsenal not an indication of overall military capability. Thank goodness you agree your subs are for defensive purposes. A task for which it was exactly built and for which it did well in exercises with Nato. In a war it possibly could sink a boat or two which potentially gives it away. Only thing is it can delay an invasion but it cannot stop an invasion. Agaugust? |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 10:38pm On Jul 28, 2017 |
MikeCZA: Lol...just look at what u wrote C'mon now believe it especially with the help of ur resident "I too know" which is one sided relief. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 12:22am On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1: - What? Did you even bother to simply Google what our Heroine class subs are all about..... If you did you won't be using your fly/bird metaphor! -HOW!!! HOW are nuclear subs quieter.....you just proved you are extremely ill informed about submarines in general......modern D.E subs are much quieter than Nuclear subs that's a fact mate, look it up - dude AIP does not reduce noise, it simply continues charging the batteries while the sub is submerged, hence a d.e sub can run longer on battery power and thus extend under water indurance!! -please provide a citation that states the HEROINE CLASS must surface every 24 hours. -Which regional power operates a nuclear submarine? Oh yes none, so your argument is irrelevant! - how can it sink an entire NATO fleet and not get detected during an exercise but not in a real life scenario?? Exercise simulate real life situations other wise what would the point be to even hold exercises? - stop an envision from who exactly? - yes you are agubugu |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 12:27am On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1:@Ibwali a Nigerian agrees you are talking sh1t @nemesis2u an Indian agrees you are talking sh1t @MikeCZA a South Africa soldier(if memory is correct) agrees you are talking sh1t What makes you more knowledgeable about submarines than not just the three men above but the entire world......are you a military researcher?? 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 1:18am On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: Alice in wonderland story |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 1:46am On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: Dude quit this, would ya? Ok u want to be able to sleep, alright I'll give it to u ... your heroine class subs in SA are better, quieter, more powerful than US Ohio class submarines Oh sry ur subs in SA are better and more powerful than all NATO naval capabilities combined as they would sink them all if they showed up Ah! Not to forget they can't be detected even un-submerged (snorting pipes/periscope, radar mast and all) by Nigeria's radar evasive warships with it's sophisticated processing and guidance systems. In fact they are ghosts in plain sight from ur submissions and according to ur resident "I too know", did u say from India. By the way so u know the Stirling AIP engines on the Gotland subs are near quiet, so much so for not contributing to stealth. Nuclear subs are for global strategic effect. But anyway in fact ur subs excel them all Sure u'd love this Agaugust. Dream On, Sweetly |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:01am On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1: -never said they are better, quieter yes, because all modern d.e subs are quieter than Nuclear subs....look it !! - if NATO couldn't detect them the Nigerian Navy with much much more inferior systems will definitely not detect them......unless you are telling me the Nigerian Fleet is more advanced than NATO?? - Do you know how an AIP engine works?? Obviously not!!! - I asked you which regional powers operate nuclear subs!! I also explicitly said are subs are for defensive purposes!! You have the fvcking memory of a gold fish!! |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 10:01am On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1:What makes you more qualified than them..... simple question answer it!! |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 12:35pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: Don't you think you are contradicting yourself. Yes, I agree nuclear submarine are not as quiet as diesel electric submarines when electrically driven but not when using diesel engine. To great extent, AIP adds to stealth of the submarine and not just endurance. "The Swedish shipbuilder Kockums constructed three Gotland-class submarines for the Swedish Navy that are fitted with an auxiliary Stirling engine that burns liquid oxygen and diesel fuel to drive 75 kilowatt electrical generators for either propulsion or charging batteries. The endurance of the 1,500-tonne boats is around 14 days at 5 kn (5.8 mph; 9.3 km/h)." There are other reasons that can contribute to quietness of nuclear submarine which could be because of the propeller design, reduced noise and magnetic signatures etc but nuclear propulsion still remains noisy and needs to be cooled down which leaves trails that can be picked up easily. Nuclear subs are usually larger than AIP/diesel electric submarines which even makes them easier to detect. Diesel submarine can also hide on the floor in shallow water and remain completely silent and immobile until enemy pass by. This can make it difficult to seperate it from other objects in the environment. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 1:43pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Iblawi1: Not exactly, AIP allow the batteries to be charged submerged......diesel engines can't run while fully submerged for obvious reasons hence a sub must snorkel to allow the engine to charged the batteries. While submerged all d.e subs run only on battery power.....thus AIP only allows the batteries to run longer while submerged!! Does not add to stealth....the diesel engine will still need to snorkel eventually to charge the batteries! Rest of your post I agree with!! |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 3:06pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: That is the point I was making. The quietness/stealth of diesel electric submarines comes into play when it's electrically driven and AIP also help to increase the the time for which it can remain quiet/stealthy. I hope you get my point now. This was why I said it great adds to stealth of the D.E submarines. If you say endurance is all AIP adds to D.E submarines, you should remember that they can endure thousands of miles while snorkeling. Lastly, AIP can drive electric generators either for propulsion OR to charge batteries. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by overhypedsteve(m): 3:08pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Henry240:lols but you can? You express your mental stability each day on the internet by telling people that what they have is inferior to what you don't have. Overhypedasshole. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 3:33pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: You have vivid imaginations... Answer: I don't massage ego. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 3:42pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: Hope ur catfish memory(u chose this path) reminds you that u knew nothing of AIP till I told u. Likewise the fact I also taught u ur subs are best suited for "littoral defence". I'm a leave it here or noble talk? |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 3:51pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1: Dude how could someone who thinks Ship based radars would detect the periscope and snorkel of a sub in the ocean, teach me anything about submarines?? 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 3:52pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1:In other words you don't have an answer....... |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 4:10pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Iblawi1:to AIP increases the time it can stay submerged thus increasing the time the sub runs on battery power.....so yes I get your point!! But it won't make it more stealthy than a non aip d.e sub if you get my point just increases the time/endurance of the batteries!! |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 4:28pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Iblawi1: A great job u do trying to make him understand. Hope he does cos so far all I see is a guy who "sees no bad in us". Everything is on the up and up for him in SA Lol. Btw their subs don't even have the AIP speaking of. Tactically Speaking: We can write from now to tmrw, fact is Nuclear subs are of greater advantage, period. Modern Nuke subs are basically built to be a hole in the water. It's reactor machinery noise is isolated. It is silent. It is nigh impossible to detect (some have said can't be detected). Their positions in a global ocean is an unknown. It's one weakness being very fast, is the heat it leaves on the surface while diving to depth and that mostly is negated by the hydrodynamics of the Sea. This same jin115 won't let us hear word if they get one - in a dream. Diesel Electric Subs are great and deadly but it's touted stealthiness is remaining still at depth in contested waters. That's a fact. For the sake of saying they are great, the Gotland class is better. In fact the swedes are building subs that can survive torpedo hits but questionably yet in service. Still at that how many hits can it survive? It is limited in range by a whole host of factors not least it's need to breath. In a concentrated ADMI with Air-borne, Satellite, Ship, Submarine search and track sensors it is toast. Submarines above all else hate search from up there, it almost always gives it away. T'is why range and survivability (need to stay submerged) matters so ur position is hardly compromised. The Heroine Class subs don't have that capability. Nigeria is still in business. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Nobody: 4:57pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
Covert1: Dude he literally said the opposite than what you said!!!! How can you all of a sudden agree with him?? |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Covert1: 5:20pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: ......................You have to look behind the words to understand the meaning. |
Re: African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. by Iblawi1: 6:15pm On Jul 29, 2017 |
jln115: Yes I get your point too 1 Like |
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