₦airaland Forum

Emeritusseun:
From your first point, fornication, adultery are examples of INORDINATE AFFECTION or SEXUAK IMMORALITY!,,,and it encompasses other forns of sexual sins, including gay, lesbian among others.
It hit me on naked nerve when you say when a man 'wrongly desires' his wife isnt a sin. You defined lust as ''wrongful desire''. A man would rather love his wife than lust in her because lust is a root of evil. 'if your sexual desire is not guided by respect for the honor of others and regard for the holiness of God, it is lust and it is a sin. When a man lusts in his wife, he would abuse her sexually just to satisfy his wrong sexual desire.

You shift the goal post, my friend, when you bring in the issue of abuse. Abuse may not stem out of desire, but bitterness or hatred. Those who patronize hookers for instance, do so solely out of lust or inappropriate sexual desire. Now, the point is that such sexual desire, in marriage, becomes acceptable and in fact, the norm.
One of the reasons for marriage, according to the Bible, is to satisfy sexual desires and avoid lust. See

1 Corinthians 7:2
[2]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

So your case of one wrongly desiring his wife is muffled. If the desire is sexual, it is required. Abuse is an entirely different ball game that stems out of discord and misunderstanding. To desire one's spouse for sex is the norm. To however desire another that you aren't married to sexually is what we call lust.
No mix-up.

Now permit me to discuss masturbation in marriage another day. From statistics, the highest percentage of people that masturbate are unmarried individual within d ages of 16-44yrs old. So let me limit myself to masturbation outside marriage

The same way statistics show that many unmarried in that age bracket are involved in premarital sex.

IS IT A SIN OR NOT?...
Now concerning masturbation for medical test. I laughed when i saw it. You made it sound as if masturbation is the best and or only way to collect semen for analysis. Bro, there 1001ways to collect semen in the clinic. You also claim 'casual masturbation'!..who does masturbate without a mental image of erotic pictures, porns or other illicit imaginations?. Even when the option of masturbation is employed in the clinic, a porn paper or mag is often giving to the individual because masturbation isnt a passive act, it is an active act which involves centres in the brain, thats why guys get addiced to it easily.

That many masturbate to lustful or pornographic materials doesn't mean all do so. It will be fallacious to make such an assertion.
My point is simple. Don't stretch it. The ACT of masturbation is, in itself, not lustful. This is because sexual lust distinct itself in an affection towards anybody one isn't or can't be married to.
Biblical lust in the original etymology has its root in the word epithumeo which primarily means DESIRE.. Apparently, lust thrives in thoughts and motives. Not the act of masturbation or sex itself.

I have plenty submissions to make on this but i dont wana bore you with my epistle.

I love that part when you wrote ''any do it out of lusting after someone they aren't married to''.

Nice write up bro. i really respect your stance on this.

Thanks.

FinallyFamous:
. INORDINATE AFFECTION...being demonstrated..is another name for masturbation. ur sexual organ only perform two fuctions ...sexual and urinate...

Its either u are urinating or having a sexual activity...

Google is your friend. Check out the meaning of INORDINATE. it means UNCONTROLLED. Inordinate affection doesn't therefore mean masturbation as you suppose. It means UNCONTROLLED AFFECTION. Such affection or desire could be towards things or a person and it is usually obsessive or unrestrained.

Don't let grammar confuse you.

Masturbation, as an act, is not wrong. Lust is what makes it wrong.

FinallyFamous:
quote a place in the bible that say smoking weed is a sin?

It's clear. The body of the Christian' is the temple of God.


1 Corinthians 6:19
[19]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


Weed affects this temple medically and physically, causing it to do wrong and act against its purpose. Simple.


1 Corinthians 6:20

[20]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


Same with excessive wine and the likes.

damosky12:
Google is your friend. Check out the meaning of INORDINATE. it means UNCONTROLLED. Inordinate affection doesn't therefore mean masturbation as you suppose. It means UNCONTROLLED AFFECTION. Such affection or desire could be towards things or a person and it is usually obsessive or unrestrained.

Don't let grammar confuse you.

Masturbation, as an act, is not wrong. Lust is what makes it wrong.

stop confusing yourself bro...LUST and masturbation are blood brothers they walk hand in hand...porn fuel lust..porn can be view physically or immagined in the mind...these imaginations..becomes wild and uncontrollable.(inordinate affection) which can only be fully relieved by sexual activity..of which masturbation is one (define masturbation to prove me wrong if it isn't a sexual activity)...

It is highly unlikely for one to masturbate without any inducing effect...

[quote author=olajazz post=60538134]Why won't him know about the Bible... I hate it when pastor blast fellow pastors, it's really embarrassing and devastating. Nigeria pastors should stop this nonsense and should correct one and other privately not openly,coming to YouTube

[ Atleast he has gain his own popularity..]

FinallyFamous:
stop confusing yourself bro...LUST and masturbation are blood brothers they walk hand in hand...porn fuel lust..porn can be view physically or immagined in the mind...these imaginations..becomes wild and uncontrollable.(inordinate affection) which can only be fully relieved by sexual activity..of which masturbation is one (define masturbation to prove me wrong if it isn't a sexual activity)...

It is highly unlikely for one to masturbate without any inducing effect...

LOL. You are trying too hard to make sense.


Is it that you don't know the meaning of "affection"? It is a generic description for any form of attachment. It could be to money, materials or to the opposite sex.

Define lust and define masturbation. There is a difference. One is a mental disposition, another is an act.

If sex isn't lust when done within the confines of marriage, so is masturbation. It's simple! Lust is a thinking. It is desire. Greek word "epithumeo".
It is not an action. When an action is done in lust is what makes that action lustful.

Study and think, bro. Be objective too.

damosky12:
LOL. You are trying too hard to make sense.


Is it that you don't know the meaning of "affection"? It is a generic description for any form of attachment. It could be to money, materials or to the opposite sex.

Define lust and define masturbation. There is a difference. One is a mental disposition, another is an act.

If sex isn't lust when done within the confines of marriage, so is masturbation. It's simple! Lust is a thinking. It is desire. Greek word "epithumeo".
It is not an action. When an action is done in lust is what makes that action lustful.

Study and think, bro. Be objective too.

I'm trying hard not to speak unwarranted grammar so I don't get blown out of proportion...i really want anyone who read my post to understand me..not just you alone...so I'm trying hard to avoid ambiguity so as not to be misunderstood...grammar is the least of my worries

But I can feel your mind is made up and there's little I can do about it

But let me try again...note that it is not what enters a man that defiles a man but what comes out of the man..masturbation is an output of LUST(simple truth..take a sample survey around you and come back)

The school of thought that ostracises an act but only to lay blame on the proximate cause is totally out of place..u cant separate Lust from masturbation

Its same thing as saying ..u shouldn't blame a thief who stole food to eat because he was hungry..seeing he only took the food to eat cos he was hungry not because he was a bad person..the act of taking food to eat itself is not sin..but taking what is not yours for your personal consumption is sin...hence using your organ(a member of your body as Paul put it) to fulfil a urge(sexual urge) in this context is sin.

That's why he told us to mortify(put under total control) our members(body parts..which can serve as agent of sin) which are on earth ..fornication..adultery etc...Ur sex organ is part of your member which must be mortify(put under control) if not inordinate affection for sex will make it an agent of sin


Paul said I put my body under subjection so that after I am done saying all these...me myself shouldn't become guilty of them and be cast away

I hope you now understand my point of view

alBHAGDADI:
God didn't end or cut his covenant with Abraham. Even this new explanation of yours is no different from the error you made the other time.

God fulfilled his promise or covenant to/with Abraham by giving Jesus who multiplied Abraham's seed by including the gentiles.

Can you now see why I said you should shut up? Your attempt to speak on things you know nothing about is leading to errors. Even the verse you quoted below has nothing to do with your assertion. Cos, if you say the abrahamic covenant was the tree that was cutter down cos it bore no fruit, then what do you have to say about Jesus Christ the seed that was promised to Abraham which will make the world blessed?


As explained above, the verse has no correlation with your assertion.

The law that says you must not divorce your wife unless on grounds of adultery is not a Jewish law by the law of Jesus Christ.

Jews rejected Jesus Christ who made the law that says you must not divorce your partner unless on grounds of adultery. So, Jews can do what they want. But as for we Christians, we are to follow theblaw of our master. Not opinions from people like you.

You don't need my opinion then you shouldn't come up, cos I was talking to the Op, not you
And you are not following the laws of Jesus.
Your were seriously deceived.
It was not Jesus who established that law, the law has already been there among the Jewish laws long before Jesus came and I'll prove it here.
You quoted Matt 5
But if you notice verse 17
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
So, that law has already been there among the prophets of the old.
Only that Jesus was rephrasing it to the understanding of the multitude(if you read Matt 5 from verse 1 down) by saying " And i say to you.. "
Meaning, this is how i understand the law.
The question is, was Jesus quoting the law to Christians?
No, he was only reminding the Jews of their laws which includes "if you divorce and remarry you have erred "
As a matter of fact there was nothing like christianity at that time he was speaking to them(the multitude comprising people who practiced Judaism not christianity). So, when you claim you are obeying jesus, then you are deceiving yourself.
It's not Jesus o.
The only thing Jesus required from people was to believe in him that's all.
Not Jewish traditional laws

Thank God you are saying God fulfilled his covenant with Abraham by Christ coming,which apparently is the ended the old covenant.
That means, currently we are not in the old covenant but in the new covenant through Christ.
So, i did not make any mistake by saying God has ended the old covenant.
I only meant that since we are not in old covenant anymore then Jewish laws(including the law of divorce and remarrying) are optional.
That it's only six commandments among the 10 commandments ( which is love for God and your neighour) that we christians should be bothered about.
Obviously, you misunderstood me that's why you were quick to tell me shut up.
It's not your fault
You were not well brought up
Next time, ask more questions to understand where people are driving at, to prevent you attacking people unnecessarily at the end you become the fool.

Whether the scripture i quoted correlate?
Let me come from your question.
The Abrahamic covenant did not bear fruit, it was a faulty covenant that's why Jesus came and hewn (cut it) by establishing the new covenant.
So, you see the correlation now

paxonel:
You don't need my opinion then you shouldn't come up, cos I was talking to the Op, not you
And you are not following the laws of Jesus.
Your were seriously deceived.
It was not Jesus who established that law, the law has already been there among the Jewish laws long before Jesus came and I'll prove it here.
You quoted Matt 5
But if you notice verse 17
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
So, that law has already been there among the prophets of the old.
Only that Jesus was rephrasing it to the understanding of the multitude(if you read Matt 5 from verse 1 down) by saying " And i say to you.. "
Meaning, this is how i understand the law.
The question is, was Jesus quoting the law to Christians?
No, he was only reminding the Jews of their laws which includes "if you divorce and remarry you have erred "
As a matter of fact there was nothing like christianity at that time he was speaking to them(the multitude comprising people who practiced Judaism not christianity). So, when you claim you are obeying jesus, then you are deceiving yourself.
It's not Jesus o.
The only thing Jesus required from people was to believe in him that's all.
Not Jewish traditional laws

Thank God you are saying God fulfilled his covenant with Abraham by Christ coming,which apparently is the ended the old covenant.
That means, currently we are not in the old covenant but in the new covenant through Christ.
So, i did not make any mistake by saying God has ended the old covenant.
I only meant that since we are not in old covenant anymore then Jewish laws(including the law of divorce and remarrying) are optional.
That it's only six commandments among the 10 commandments ( which is love for God and your neighour) that we christians should be bothered about.
Obviously, you misunderstood me that's why you were quick to tell me shut up.
It's not your fault
You were not well brought up
Next time, ask more questions to understand where people are driving at, to prevent you attacking people unnecessarily at the end you become the fool.

Whether the scripture i quoted correlate?
Let me come from your question.
The Abrahamic covenant did not bear fruit, it was a faulty covenant that's why Jesus came and hewn (cut it) by establishing the new covenant.
So, you see the correlation now

. Telling someone "he is not well brought up" cos he told u to "shut up" is practicing the mosaic law whom u claim is being abolish by Jesus Christ ( an eye for an eye)

are you a Jew?

FinallyFamous:
. Telling someone "he is not well brought up" cos he told u to "shut up" is practicing the mosaic law whom u claim is being abolish by Jesus Christ ( an eye for an eye)

are you a Jew?

I never said Jesus abolished the mosaic law .
Rather, i said he rephrased their laws ( including that of divorce) to the hearing of the Jews.
The idea was that, it's either they keep their law (which they could not keep) or they believe that he is the Christ and be saved.
You tell me shut up, why should i not take it.
So, I say you are not well brought up, then take it too
They are all mere statements, they don't change anything

olajazz:
Why won't him know about the Bible... I hate it when pastor blast fellow pastors, it's really embarrassing and devastating. Nigeria pastors should stop this nonsense and should correct one and other privately not openly,coming to YouTube

The struggle for relevance amongst all these so call men of God is what has stagnated the church and prevented it from growing. Pastors now portray themselves as God all for fame. May God help us all.

FinallyFamous:
I'm trying hard not to speak unwarranted grammar so I don't get blown out of proportion...i really want anyone who read my post to understand me..not just you alone...so I'm trying hard to avoid ambiguity so as not to be misunderstood...grammar is the least of my worries

But I can feel your mind is made up and there's little I can do about it

But let me try again...note that it is not what enters a man that defiles a man but what comes out of the man..masturbation is an output of LUST(simple truth..take a sample survey around you and come back)

The school of thought that ostracises an act but only to lay blame on the proximate cause is totally out of place..u cant separate Lust from masturbation

Its same thing as saying ..u shouldn't blame a thief who stole food to eat because he was hungry..seeing he only took the food to eat cos he was hungry not because he was a bad person..the act of taking food to eat itself is not sin..but taking what is not yours for your personal consumption is sin...hence using your organ(a member of your body as Paul put it) to fulfil a urge(sexual urge) in this context is sin.

That's why he told us to mortify(put under total control) our members(body parts..which can serve as agent of sin) which are on earth ..fornication..adultery etc...Ur sex organ is part of your member which must be mortify(put under control) if not inordinate affection for sex will make it an agent of sin


Paul said I put my body under subjection so that after I am done saying all these...me myself shouldn't become guilty of them and be cast away

I hope you now understand my point of view

It's unfortunate you just don't understand. It's fine. You don't seem to tow the logical line. Any casual observer will note this.

Read my posts well, you'll note this. You'll get the point.
Take care.

damosky12:
It's unfortunate you just don't understand. It's fine. You don't seem to tow the logical line. Any casual observer will note this.

Read my posts well, you'll note this. You'll get the point.
Take care.

the irony is actually glaring bro ..it is u that rather chose not to reason with an obvious truth but keep garnishing it to fit ur ideology..

anyone who tow your "logical line" would notice it all along

I still cant phantom why you are arguing for masturbation like u are a advocate

FinallyFamous:
I'm trying hard not to speak unwarranted grammar so I don't get blown out of proportion...i really want anyone who read my post to understand me..not just you alone...so I'm trying hard to avoid ambiguity so as not to be misunderstood...grammar is the least of my worries

But I can feel your mind is made up and there's little I can do about it

let me try help you. Delete Religion from your head a second. Approach the scriptures objectively now.

But let me try again...note that it is not what enters a man that defiles a man but what comes out of the man..masturbation is an output of LUST(simple truth..take a sample survey around you and come back)

In your head, you seem to associate lust with sexual sins only. But apparently, even bitterness falls into the category of lust.

An example

Galatians 5:15-16
[15]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Can you stay with good thinking and shun survey a second.
"an output of lust"? What about the ACT among married couples? How is it an "output". You seem not to to be able to think towards separating an ACT from LUST itself.
Yes! Many do it out of lust. Watching porn, desiring someone they aren't married to, etc. But the ACT is not the wrong but the FACT that they do it out of lust.

Think logically now. Is sex wrong? What of when it is done in lust. That means the ACT of sex isn't wrong. But it is the norm only in marriage as long as lustful intents are withdrawn.

The school of thought that ostracises an act but only to lay blame on the proximate cause is totally out of place..u cant separate Lust from masturbation

Can you separate looking from lusting.

Matthew 5:28
[28]But I say unto you, That whosoever LOOKETH on a woman to LUST after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Is the act of looking wrong? Think logically. If A caused B, A is initself wrong. B is in itself not wrong. Consequently, B can only be wrong when caused by A. Outside A, B isn't wrong.

Its same thing as saying .. u shouldn't blame a thief who stole food to eat because he was hungry..seeing he only took the food to eat cos he was hungry not because he was a bad person..the act of taking food to eat itself is not sin..but taking what is not yours for your personal consumption is sin...hence using your organ(a member of your body as Paul put it) to fulfil a urge(sexual urge) in this context is sin.

Did you note your fallacy. Your thief STOLE (wrong in itself). He didn't "take food". He STOLE not take. The fact that your thief "took what isn't his" is intrinsically wrong.

Why not an example of a little boy who begs for money not because he is hungry but because he wants to gamble with the proceeds. His begging is only wrong because his purpose is wrong.

That's why he told us to mortify(put under total control) our members(body parts..which can serve as agent of sin) which are on earth ..fornication..adultery etc...Ur sex organ is part of your member which must be mortify(put under control) if not inordinate affection for sex will make it an agent of sin

Exactly. Fornication, adultery and the likes are prohibited. Mirtify means control. Don't let your body control you. You control your body. Nothing ambiguous about that.

When ANY desire controls you, that's when it's lust. it's not condemning any particular act done.

I am not clamoring for masturbation. Many do it in lust. What then is wrong? The ACT or the LUST? The fact is that it's an activity that can be engaged in without lust.

The problem with many isn't the act but addiction to lustful thinking. Even some married folks are guilty of lust without really committing adultery. The problem is their intent; Their minds. Hmm

Many ignoramuses misunderstood Pastor Chris Oyakhilome. That's what I am clarifying.

Paul said I put my body under subjection so that after I am done saying all these...me myself shouldn't become guilty of them and be cast away

I hope you now understand my point of view

Funny enough. The above verse isn't talking about lust at all. Read Bible in context. It's talking about ministry.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
[24]Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
[25]And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
[26]I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
[27]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Nevertheless, I get your point. The Bible never condemns the act but lust.

Lust can produce a thousand and one actions. That doesn't mean the action is in itself wrong. The LUST is what scriptures teach should be run from.


From an objective and logical stance with the scriptures, the act of masturbation isn't wrong in itself. The fact that it's one of the vents for lust doesn't make it a sin as looking at an opposite sex would not be a sin if it isn't inspired by lust.

Format Religion once. Think and Study in context.

In response to your last post, I am only an "advocate" for clear thinking in approach to scriptures.