Afam4eva:
I've always thought Amebo had Yoruba origins because it kinda sounds more Yoruba than anything.

I believe you know now. The origin and etymology of the word is what the post addresses. Esan language in Edo state also uses 'Amebo' for the same original meaning as in Urhobo, the favorite wife of a polygamous home.

Beowulf:


I don't know about 'vb" but we use "vw". I am from a neighbouring town to Awka with a similar dialect and we use "vw" as well. Other Igbos find it difficult to pronounce it the way we do. For instance the way we call cow which must Igbos call efi, evi, eshi, ehi depending on their dialects, we call it evwi.

Wow! This is very interesting. 'vw' and 'vb' are actually different ways of spelling the same thing. Southern Edoid languages like Urhobo and Isoko uses 'vw' more commonly while Bini, Esan and some others use 'vb' mostly.

I never knew anywhere in Igboland, talk less of Awka of all places has something like it too. Funny enough, I've once heard some people in Urhobo/Isoko trace their history to the Awka area.

Abeg, fratermathy Efewestern come and see this.

Opharhe:
Okay then. Certainly, some of the consonants common to the languages of Edo-Speaking people may not be exclusive to those languages, but just more common with them than others.
Thanks for the info anyway.

Yeah. No wahala.

Are you Edo yourself?

AreaFada2:


Dude you try. But Amwenbo is a very ancient Benin word for Iyale. Mother of house or senior wife. It changed in Urhobo a bit as they moved from Benin area around 600 years ago. Pretty much like osa became osia for chimpanzee. Ekpekpeye became Ikpukpuyeke for duck. Ukhuere became uwhere (sugar cane), Ogie became ovie. Omokhuo became omote, etc. Words like Efe(wealth), igho (money) Oghene (God) remain pretty much same.

Edoid languages like Benin, Urhobo, Esan, Afemai, Degema, Isoko all retain many ancient parent words.

you're right to a large extent. There are many words that are still common to nearly all languages in the Edoid linguistic family. I believe many of our ancestors had a common ancestry or origin but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking all Urhobo tribes trace their migratory history from Benin because the migratory patterns were not one-way or definite just as Urhobo like most other ethnic groups are actually a people of diverse origins.

That said, with available evidences, we can safely conclude that we have a common stock to a large extent at least.
Thanks for the enlightening contribution. I like the way you gave linguistic similarities in names.
Welldone.

kn23h:
When did Amebo become urhobo?

It's a Yoruba word.

Yoruba word? It's not true. It has no real original meaning in Yoruba language even though Yorubas use it largely. You can subject this to further research on your own.

kn23h:


Are you mad?

Ikebe is a Yoruba word.

No again. It's an Urhobo word. We use it till today. Idi is buttocks in Yoruba, not Ikebe.
Ikebe is an Urhobo word meaning buttocks but it has found it's way into common Nigerian parlance like other words including the subject matter of this post. Go make some findings.

Mujtahida:

They are giving you the etymology of the word. Words too have history. They are born, they grow, they change and sometimes they die. So please give us the etymology of the word amebo in Yoruba

Thanks for that. Some of us don't bother to look deeply. Nigerian Pidgin English today has many words of diverse origins from such languages as English, Portuguese, Yoruba, Edo Urhobo, Igbo, Ijaw but many don't know. Our local languages too have borrowed words from other languages but many don't know and will not want to learn.

oodualover:

So "amewvo" which means good wife has now turn to "amebo" an eavesdropper.
Bro, you too use your sense na.
What i know is Amebo is a Yoruba word.
"Amewvo" has a different meaning from "Amebo". The writer said it himself that it was first heard from a Yoruba woman's mouth.

The only words I used are 'Avwebo' and it's variant, 'Amebo' which is the subject of discussion. I don't know where you got "Amewvo" from.

oodualover:

So "amewvo" which means good wife has now turn to "amebo" an eavesdropper.
Bro, you too use your sense na.
What i know is Amebo is a Yoruba word.
"Amewvo" has a different meaning from "Amebo". The writer said it himself that it was first heard from a Yoruba woman's mouth.

The only words I used are 'Avwebo' and it's variant, 'Amebo' which is the subject of discussion. I don't know where you got "Amewvo" from.
So because a Yoruba woman plays a role depicting Amebo in a movie is what you have to as proof of your claim? Lol.
Justice Esiri also acted in that film, he's an Urhobo himself. I know Urhobos who act pure Yoruba movies like Fathia Balogun for example(surprised right? ). It doesn't mean much bro.

oodualover:

Lols! Me sef i am confused oo. How did amewvo become amebo?
Can you imagine? It is like saying sango is not Yoruba word

You guys are even getting it wrong Koro Koro like this. I never used "amewvo" PLEASE. The only 2 words contained in the post are 'Avwebo' and it's variant 'Amebo'. There are Urhobo dialects that use purely 'Amebo' too, it has same meaning in Esan language, another Edo-Speaking group. Maybe you didn't read the post well.

fratermathy:


Maybe the spelling is confusing you. The pronunciation is aarmeehbooor. So though it is spelt as Amevbo, it is pronounced as Amebo.

Let's not argue on who owns the word. It's not necessary. The Op's position is on how it became popular, not that the Urhobos have a patent to the word.

And of course, etymology may be relative, even when words have the same meaning, pronunciation and orthography. I can argue that "Omo" is an Urhobo word and still be as correct or as wrong as one who argues it is a Yoruba word.

Oniovo na 'Avwebo' and 'Amebo' I spell sef o. 'Amevbo', 'Amevwo' or whatever is no where in the post. The only other word I used is 'Avweorovwe' which is the direct opposite of 'Avwebo/Amebo' in a polygamous setting.

Autherga:
.
In two urhobo dialect namely okpe & uvwie the word is still pronounced amebo

You're very correct. It's even indicated in the post though I didn't specifically mention Okpe and Uvwie.

naptu2:


Here's my thread about The Village Headmaster and The New Village Headmaster if you want to know all about the series.

https://www.nairaland.com/3558068/village-headmaster-series-longest-run#52581756

Okay. Thank you.

Probz:


Yeah. No wahala.

Are you Edo yourself?

No, I'm Urhobo.
I mentioned Edo because there are similarities between it and Urhobo in language and culture etc.
Bini(Edo), Urhobo, Isoko, Esan, Afemai etc are also linguistically classified as 'Edoid' languages belonging to a language family. We also have 'Igboid' 'Yoruboid', 'Ijoid' etc in classifying languages with striking similarities within those language families.

So it'll help you understand better when you see things like 'Edo-Speaking people', Yoruba-speaking, Igbo-speaking etc.

I believe you understand now.

Opharhe:
you're right to a large extent. There are many words that are still common to nearly all languages in the Edoid linguistic family. I believe many of our ancestors had a common ancestry or origin but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking all Urhobo tribes trace their migratory history from Benin because the migratory patterns were not one-way or definite just as Urhobo like most other ethnic groups are actually a people of diverse origins.

That said, with available evidences, we can safely conclude that we have a common stock to a large extent at least.
Thanks for the enlightening contribution. I like the way you gave linguistic similarities in names.
Welldone.

Thank you.

Sure, no ethnic entity is entirely homogeneous. People have to migrate from somewhere and try to form a new identity wherever they find themselves.
Now think of it. A land that is already populated by one group of people will only ever allow a smaller group that can be assimilated to join them. Unless they are conquered. Or the larger group is not seen as a threat. Rare historically. The waves of migrants who formed Urhobo culture were those of Benin area people. With minor other immigrants from elsewhere.
Take the case of Itsekiri.

When Prince Ginuwa left Benin during the reign of his father Oba Olua of Benin (1475-1480), he left with a replica of the royal court of Benin. With junior sons of Benin Chiefs as his courtiers. They are still the core of Warri royal family & aristocracy till now. Waves of Ijebu & Eastern Yoruba later moved to the area and supplanted much of Benin language there. There were lots of wars within Yoruba land and with their neighbours too. So migration waves are easy to understand. By now Benin had become more organised beginning in 1440 with Oba Ewuare I. With able bodied men needed for wars of expansion.

So unlike Urhobo who could migrate more easily in the pre-imperial times, just leaving had become more difficult. With body tattoos (Iwu), facial tribal marks now used to identify Benin/Edo people. This could explain why waves of migrants from Benin could not join Ginuwa. So trickling waves of Yoruba origin people became the main population.

In discussions with Ga people of Osu/Accra area of Ghana about their Benin origin, surprisingly most were aware of it. Even Ga people in the West/diaspora over 20 years back. But about 25% said they only migrated through Benin on their way from Sudan, Egypt or wherever.

In the same way, Benin itself has a lot of migrants who are now bona fide Benin people. From everywhere: Yorubaland, Ijaw, Igalla, Igbo, etc. It is only homogeneous in shared/dominant culture, not necessarily in ethnic origin or genetics. pretty much same with most tribes and nations.

The current Iyase of Benin, who is the traditional prime minster and second in power the the Oba is an Urhobo origin man. Since considering history, an Urhobo man is not to be even considered a stranger in Benin.

I find it really interesting to hear in Urhobo language, words that very old (like over 85 years old, all now late) Benin people used around 30 years ago. Words that are not heard frequently in Benin language now. Urhobo & other Edoid languages could become major linguistic repositories of the ancient common language.

Opharhe:
It appears you don't understand the post then. Before the play(which further popularised the name) was broadcasted, the name already existed and had a cultural background which I have exposed in the post. It was from the cultural background that the name was used to give the portrayal in "The Village Headmaster".

That is not correct, what has been described is totally different from the character Amebo played. The historical context you have given really has no bearing on the character

AreaFada2:


Thank you.

Sure, no ethnic entity is entirely homogeneous. People have to migrate from somewhere and try to form a new identity wherever they find themselves.
Now think of it. A land that is already populated by one group of people will only ever allow a smaller group that can be assimilated to join them. Unless they are conquered. Or the larger group is not seen as a threat. Rare historically. The waves of migrants who formed Urhobo culture were those of Benin area people. With minor other immigrants from elsewhere.
Take the case of Itsekiri.

When Prince Ginuwa left Benin during the reign of his father Oba Olua of Benin (1475-1480), he left with a replica of the royal court of Benin. With junior sons of Benin Chiefs as his courtiers. They are still the core of Warri royal family & aristocracy till now. Waves of Ijebu & Eastern Yoruba later moved to the area and supplanted much of Benin language there. There were lots of wars within Yoruba land and with their neighbours too. So migration waves are easy to understand. By now Benin had become more organised beginning in 1440 with Oba Ewuare I. With able bodied men needed for wars of expansion.

So unlike Urhobo who could migrate more easily in the pre-imperial times, just leaving had become more difficult. With body tattoos (Iwu), facial tribal marks now used to identify Benin/Edo people. This could explain why waves of migrants from Benin could not join Ginuwa. So trickling waves of Yoruba origin people became the main population.

In d[b]iscussions with Ga people of Osu/Accra area of Ghana about their Benin origin, surprisingly most were aware of it. Even Ga people in the West/diaspora over 20 years back. But about 25% said they only migrated through Benin on their way from Sudan, Egypt or wherever. [/b]

In the same way, Benin itself has a lot of migrants who are now bona fide Benin people. From everywhere: Yorubaland, Ijaw, Igalla, Igbo, etc. It is only homogeneous in shared/dominant culture, not necessarily in ethnic origin or genetics. pretty much same with most tribes and nations.

The current Iyase of Benin, who is the traditional prime minster and second in power the the Oba is an Urhobo origin man. Since considering history, an Urhobo man is not to be even considered a stranger in Benin.

I find it really interesting to hear in Urhobo language, words that very old (like over 85 years old, all now late) Benin people used around 30 years ago. Words that are not heard frequently in Benin language now. Urhobo & other Edoid languages could become major linguistic repositories of the ancient common language.

Can we know where you got this information ? Because my very good friend is from Accra and a royal household. Why are you Benin people like this ?

Areafada2 please explain how ga people are of Benin origin. Also explain how Benin ever crossed Lagos to Benin republic to togo to present day Ghana without any form of war or conquest. No cultural influence in those country but has influence in Ghana. Also how come they don't even know Edo not to talk of benin but somehow benin has they has one of their conquered region

Even the name Ga is synonymous to warrior or solider in yoruba land. Likes of basoroun Ga

In case you want to educate yourself, we have trashed this issue before. I don't even have the energy I use to have back then

https://www.nairaland.com/950471/ewe-people-ghana-same-yoruba

Opharhe:
Oniovo na 'Avwebo' and 'Amebo' I spell sef o. 'Amevbo', 'Amevwo' or whatever is no where in the post. The only other word I used is 'Avweorovwe' which is the direct opposite of 'Avwebo/Amebo' in a polygamous setting.

See as they even confuse me sef . I con dey misspell my own language again.

[quote author=step1 post=61309713]

.

step1:


Can we know where you got this information ? Because my very good friend is from Accra and a royal household. Why are you Benin people like this ?

Which royal household? Which kingdom? How old is "your very good royal friend?". What did he tell you about his origin? Better still what position in the royal house has he?
My inlaws are Ga people. Would they lie to me 25 to 30 years ago?

I guess you will also deny that Gnasingbe Eyadema of Togo sought his origins to Edo people, precisely Esan. Who were very famed warriors in Benin army then.
Some of you have alao denied that Dahomey was renamed Republic of Benin in appreciation of their affinity with us. That it was only name because of Bight of Benin.

Why then did Kerekou seek Oba of Benin's permission to use that name?

I know Yoruba people have a dedicated strategy against anything Benin. The Benin Empire Denial Centre (BEDC) that sprouted from Ibadan press. We saw that and left Western region in a democratic referendum in 1963.

Mr Friend of Royalty, even Lagos here that its relationship with Benin is well known and even acknowledged by LSG, majority of Yoruba still claim that Benin never played any part in Lagos. Not even the Island. Ado/Esikpa(Asipa) known to be Benin have been denied by many Yoruba people.

Ooni of Ife even claimed Lagos was founded by Ife prince.

Despite Oba Kosoko paying tribute to Benin until 1853.

So how would you expect some people in Ghana far removed from Nigeria, perhaps never even listened to his elders to know any better?

In Benin we are not seeking anyone's acceptance or confirmation. History is there. People can deny, twist or do what they like. Like our SW people who think modern population size is equal to historical supremacy & monopoly over the narrative.

I have been doing what I am doing what I doing now for years here on NL. With Yoruba flooding in with misplaced sense of ITK to show how "educated" they are. And quote books written by their own people. None make any impression on me. Check all submissions here on NL dating years back.

By the way I grew up in a household where writing, history, linguistics, culture, journalism was part of life. I began sneaking to read lecture notes left on the table as a kid. I was reading notes before university students get them in their lectures.

fratermathy:


Maybe the spelling is confusing you. The pronunciation is aarmeehbooor. So though it is spelt as Amevbo, it is pronounced as Amebo.

Let's not argue on who owns the word. It's not necessary. The Op's position is on how it became popular, not that the Urhobos have a patent to the word.

And of course, etymology may be relative, even when words have the same meaning, pronunciation and orthography. I can argue that "Omo" is an Urhobo word and still be as correct or as wrong as one who argues it is a Yoruba word.

Benin word Amwebo or other Edoid language variations in Urhobo, Esan or Isoko are similar. For it to transcend these languages, it must have been present for a very long time, pre-emigration period. Of course we cannot be now sure exactly how the proto-word sounded long ago. But it would be very close to what we have now.

9ja is a funny and divided place now that everyone wants to claim supremacy. Yoruba & Edoid languages have shared a "Lebensraum" for millenia and are all Kwa/Niger-Congo languages. Therefore linguistically & philologically, no wonder that they share many things in common.

Orobo2Lekpa:


That is not correct, what has been described is totally different from the character Amebo played. The historical context you have given really has no bearing on the character

You still don't get it. There is not a direct bearing on the character but I already explained that within Urhobo culture, the name 'Avwebo/Amebo' is normally used to refer to gossips busy bodies or holier-than-thous long before the film was shot. The name was adopted from the already existing cultural background to describe the character who was fond of gossiping In 'The Village Headmaster'.

It may also interest you to know that Justice Esiri, the lead actor in the series is an Urhobo from the popular Esiri family of Abraka.

Lagos before then, already had a sizable Urhobo population visible enough to show some influence.

The name was already in use by a handful of other Nigerians especially in Lagos then before the film was shot, the series only popularised it more.

If you must argue an issue, it must be something you have sufficient amount of information about.
You can go make some real findings about this and what you'll find will not be far from this.

Opharhe:
You still don't get it. There is not a direct bearing on the character but I already explained that within Urhobo culture, the name 'Avwebo/Amebo' is normally used to refer to gossips busy bodies or holier-than-thous long before the film was shot. The name was adopted from the already existing cultural background to describe the character who was fond of gossiping In 'The Village Headmaster'.

It may also interest you to know that Justice Esiri, the lead actor in the series is an Urhobo from the popular Esiri family of Abraka.

Lagos before then, already had a sizable Urhobo population visible enough to show some influence.

The name was already in use by a handful of other Nigerians especially in Lagos then before the film was shot, the series only popularised it more.

If you must argue an issue, it must be something you have sufficient amount of information about.
You can go make some real findings about this and what you'll find will not be far from this.

I get it. But you are trying very hard to link to two distinct issues by trying to find a commonality.
I don't know why you brought in Justus Esiri into the equation. The character Amebo was already mature and a household name before Justus Esiri joined the programme in the mid to late 80s.

The program also made the name popular Gorimapa for bald head. Now there is a name called Gorimapa in Yoruba language and someone trying to be clever may find some kind of etymology linking the name to Nupe language and say that is the origin.

AreaFada2:


Thank you.

Sure, no ethnic entity is entirely homogeneous. People have to migrate from somewhere and try to form a new identity wherever they find themselves.
Now think of it. A land that is already populated by one group of people will only ever allow a smaller group that can be assimilated to join them. Unless they are conquered. Or the larger group is not seen as a threat. Rare historically. The waves of migrants who formed Urhobo culture were those of Benin area people. With minor other immigrants from elsewhere.
Take the case of Itsekiri.

When Prince Ginuwa left Benin during the reign of his father Oba Olua of Benin (1475-1480), he left with a replica of the royal court of Benin. With junior sons of Benin Chiefs as his courtiers. They are still the core of Warri royal family & aristocracy till now. Waves of Ijebu & Eastern Yoruba later moved to the area and supplanted much of Benin language there. There were lots of wars within Yoruba land and with their neighbours too. So migration waves are easy to understand. By now Benin had become more organised beginning in 1440 with Oba Ewuare I. With able bodied men needed for wars of expansion.

So unlike Urhobo who could migrate more easily in the pre-imperial times, just leaving had become more difficult. With body tattoos (Iwu), facial tribal marks now used to identify Benin/Edo people. This could explain why waves of migrants from Benin could not join Ginuwa. So trickling waves of Yoruba origin people became the main population.

In discussions with Ga people of Osu/Accra area of Ghana about their Benin origin, surprisingly most were aware of it. Even Ga people in the West/diaspora over 20 years back. But about 25% said they only migrated through Benin on their way from Sudan, Egypt or wherever.

In the same way, Benin itself has a lot of migrants who are now bona fide Benin people. From everywhere: Yorubaland, Ijaw, Igalla, Igbo, etc. It is only homogeneous in shared/dominant culture, not necessarily in ethnic origin or genetics. pretty much same with most tribes and nations.

The current Iyase of Benin, who is the traditional prime minster and second in power the the Oba is an Urhobo origin man. Since considering history, an Urhobo man is not to be even considered a stranger in Benin.

I find it really interesting to hear in Urhobo language, words that very old (like over 85 years old, all now late) Benin people used around 30 years ago. Words that are not heard frequently in Benin language now. Urhobo & other Edoid languages could become major linguistic repositories of the ancient common language.

You have really dissected the issue quit well, in a good academic manner. Yes, myself, an Urhobo, I don't see people from Edo, Esan areas etc as strangers too because I understand our shared heritage and understand the linguistic similarities. Infact, I found Esan to be be very similar to Urhobo language too if not more similar to Urhobo than Benin sef .
I find these things very interesting and I just can't get enough of it.
For example, In my Church Choir where I belong in school, I find myself easily noting and correcting mistakes in pronunciation of words in Edo language even when I don't get the real meaning of such words.
I stay in Benin occasionally, and the similarity of the language with Urhobo fascinates me a lot.

Yes, I've heard of the matter concerning Chief Igbe, Iyase of Benin being originally from Urhobo. It's even said there has been at least another Iyase of Urhobo origin in pre-colonial times probably from the Kokori axis of Agbon in Urhoboland.

I'm paternally from Ughelli Kingdom and I know that aside the general historical commonality of Urhobos and Edos, there existed a strong relationship between the royal houses of Ughelli and Benin in precolonial times, there are other examples too.

But I think I have a small issue with your Itsekiri narrative. Yes, the Royal house of Itsekiri is descended from Benin infact, Oba Olua was the father of Prince Iginuwa whose sons later founded the Itsekiri kingdom.

But the truth is, and evidence from far-reaching studies shows it too, the Yoruba-speaking communities that later formed the larger stock of the Itsekiri people were already existing before Ginuwa's sojourn to those paths. What Ginuwa and descendants did was organize and unite various small, scattered fishing communities into a Kingdom under the crown of the Olu. I'm not ruling out the possibility of later migrants from Yoruba areas into the coastal areas of Itsekiri.

The Urhobo have an interesting perspective on this matter because Oghara people played host to Ginuwa on his way from Benin as Itsekiri history also confirms.

Again, Ode-Itsekiri, the traditional headquarters and seat of the Olu(until not long ago) was already inhabited before Ginuwa's party arrived. It is said that Itsekiri is the name of the most prominent man they met there who welcomed them hence their adopting the name. Ginuwa himself is said to have died at Ijala and was buried there, never reaching Ode-Itsekiri. You can subject these to further research.

Thanks for the contribution.

Orobo2Lekpa:


I get it. But you are trying very hard to link to two distinct issues by trying to find a commonality.
I don't know why you brought in Justus Esiri into the equation. The character Amebo was already mature and a household name before Justus Esiri joined the programme in the mid to late 80s.

The program also made the name popular Gorimapa for bald head. Now there is a name called Gorimapa in Yoruba language and someone trying to be clever may find some kind of etymology linking the name to Nupe language and say that is the origin.

I'm not trying to find a link. The link is what I've explained.
It's your choice to accept or not to anyway. As for Gorimapa, I know it's a word commonly used by Yorubas because I'm around Yoruba people and speak some Yoruba myself.
I think what I've explained about 'Amebo' is satisfactory enough.

I

Orobo2Lekpa:


I get it. But you are trying very hard to link to two distinct issues by trying to find a commonality.
I don't know why you brought in Justus Esiri into the equation. The character Amebo was already mature and a household name before Justus Esiri joined the programme in the mid to late 80s.

The program also made the name popular Gorimapa for bald head. Now there is a name called Gorimapa in Yoruba language and someone trying to be clever may find some kind of etymology linking the name to Nupe language and say that is the origin.

I'm not trying to find a link. The link is what I've explained.
It's your choice to accept or not to anyway. As for Gorimapa, I know it's a word commonly used by Yorubas because I'm around Yoruba people and speak some Yoruba myself.
In Nigeria parlance today, particularly pidgin English, there are words we use that have diverse origins from various languages like Igbo, Yoruba, Urhobo, Edo, Ijaw including foreign languages like Portuguese to mention but a few.

There are other examples I can give but I think what I've explained about 'Amebo' is satisfactory enough.

Thanks.

fratermathy:


See as they even confuse me sef . I con dey misspell my own language again.

There's a lot of Igbo culture being promoted within the Igbo-British community. Have a look at the channel.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hnRYaqfew

step1:
Areafada2 please explain how ga people are of Benin origin. Also explain how Benin ever crossed Lagos to Benin republic to togo to present day Ghana without any form of war or conquest. No cultural influence in those country but has influence in Ghana. Also how come they don't even know Edo not to talk of benin but somehow benin has they has one of their conquered region

Maybe Ga people of Accra told him they come from Ketu in Benin republic (That is the origin of Ewe and Ga people via Ile Ife) and he thought they were meaning or meant Benin city in Naija

Ga people have no relationship with the Benin in nigeria.