701ecilana:

Why did you call me dumb if you know nothing?

spongeisback:

I called you by your name girly, why're you angry?!

701ecilana:

Okay, i'm dumb and you are Smart thank you, but tonite is not a nite for vitriol, we shall have a discussion.

I CALLED YOU OUT, Now, tell me how life began base on what you believe.

ifenes:


It's too easy to see where DNA codes are from. You really think a Spirit would be interested in DNA codes ? DNA codes could only be assembled by an incredibly intelligent being who have over time mastered how the Universe works

I can see you are facinated with the way the mathematics and order of the Universe is. I say yes you are right to say intelligent designer.... But I say intelligent "designers" a bunch of top notch scientists as many ancient books claimed, including your Bible. We also can reach that height if we do not destroy the planet already. The intelligent designers involved to that point of perfection. Who were they ? Obviously other life forms that exist before ours ever came to be. We are just one of billions of life forms of which we are one of the least evolved. Mentally, emotionally, physically we are still very premature, that's why many of us worship the very evolved life forms or call the Gods.

Don't bother asking science questions about the universe, they have got on 5% of the Universe visible to them, while religion worship and misinterpret the real science books. I'm just an irreligious fellow observing from a neutral point.

ZandhaZaraZ:
You're also forgetting something. Whichever God is responsible for creating the universe must also be made of "information", so he couldn't have created himself. So, who created him? Who created his creator? Who created whoever created his creator? Ad infinitum. It never ends.

The universe MUST be eternal and couldn't possibly have had a beginning because SOMETHING must ALWAYS EXIST, and NOTHINGNESS is impossible, and anything that exists NOW has existed FOREVER. There's nothing new coming into existence, and there's nothing going out of existence. There's only TRANSFORMATION of eternal, pre-existing states.

So, a creator God who draws an entire universe out of the hat of nothingness, like a cosmic magician is IMPOSSIBLE, as well. That's a FACT.

ZandhaZaraZ:

What these people have failed to understand is that the OBSERVABLE universe of matter and antimatter is that which is said to have begun to exist! That doesn't imply that THE STATE OF EXISTENCE that preceded the Big Bang was NOTHING or NONEXISTENCE

ZandhaZaraZ:

Existence is ETERNAL.

ZandhaZaraZ:

It has no beginning, and couldn't have had any beginning, because nothingness or nonexistence.

spongeisback:

Lemme guess your other moniker was banned right? You may think you're making a case for your god but trust me you aren't. Just leave me alone. Please

Horlufemi:


We are not going that far.

I'm just here to establish that Evolution is false and there is a creator.

There is surely a creator whether it to was created or not is not the bone of contention here.

Let's start by accepting that there is a creator.

hopefulLandlord:


Evolution does not say "there's no creator"

it beats me how theists talk on and on about something they lack even the most basic knowledge about

hopefulLandlord:


you read this post of yours and tell me if it relates to "began to exist" do I still need to spell out what it means to "begin to exist" before you realise this? even your post here admits something did exist before "the universe began to exist"

we don't know the process, we don't know= we don't know NOT we don't know = God is responsible, you're proving my point for me

701ecilana:


[s]I called you out here so face me.


What you said there makes absolutely no sense. Pls elucidate more on the bolded.


WHAT do you mean by 'existence IS ETERNAL'?

What is Existence? Is it matter or antimatter? i.e, is it a thing or an energy or an object?

For anything to exist, it must either be living or non living. It must have the power of consciousness and must have motion or the lack of it. it must have a time line, it must have a time it began and it must end. Everything that exists began so must end, but you are not talking about things which exists, but exiatence itsekf

Now, again, what do you mean by eternal existence?


Again, You have said nothing. When you say it, do you mean 'it' that is existence is a thing?[/s]

ScienceWatch:
My dad gave me a book many years ago, but it got lost while moving house. It was based on the limitations of logic. I dont remember the exact title of that book.

Horlufemi:


We are not going that far.

I'm just here to establish that Evolution is false and there is a creator.

There is surely a creator whether it to was created or not is not the bone of contention here.

Let's start by accepting that there is a creator.

The creator "may" be living in a prime reality.

Time and space is interwoven.

The creator could transcend time and space.

There is no need for the creator to be created.

vaxx:
lol you want scientific explanation on the matter I provide it......,I was expecting you to refute it....cosmological argument state the process has a cause which science agree .......but the cause is unknown to science .......because it is far above science limitation..... Or questions here is on the universe...... The universe has a manufacturing date ........and scientists put it to be around 13 billion years ago.......that is my point bro.....

You don't know and that make your logic become ignorance of the gap fallacy....

So to the question again.......is it because science do not know the process.? or why don't you know as a person? Pls specific answer to you only.....

ZandhaZaraZ:

You're also forgetting something. Whichever God is responsible for creating the universe must also be made of "information", so he couldn't have created himself. So, who created him? Who created his creator? Who created whoever created his creator? Ad infinitum. It never ends.

ZandhaZaraZ:

The universe MUST be eternal and couldn't possibly have had a beginning because SOMETHING must ALWAYS EXIST,

ZandhaZaraZ:

and NOTHINGNESS is impossible, and anything that exists now has existed forever.

Horlufemi:


what does evolution say? I'm all ears

hopefulLandlord:


you read this post of yours and tell me if it relates to "began to exist" do I still need to spell out what it means to "begin to exist" before you realise this? even your post here admits something did exist before "the universe began to exist"

we don't know the process, we don't know= we don't know NOT we don't know = God is responsible, you're proving my point for me

hopefulLandlord:


using that explanation to buttress "The universe began to exist" is a definite foul, I can see the problem here, it seems you've heard the cosmological argument so many times that you think its a definite fact, cosmologists have called out theologians many times for misrepresenting their findings just like you're doing now




Nope, I'm aware of the gap, so I'm definitely not ignorant of the gap, I see a gap while people like you simply plug god into that gap


its because we don't know/ we are yet to know; it is what it is, nobody knows; anyone that claims to know, is either making guesses/ lying

ZandhaZaraZ:
I'm still trying to forget you. I don't debate with bitches and retarrds. Any further mentions from you will be ignored.

vaxx:
I still want to know the foul argument.....can you kindly indicate it ? I want to see the foul.....

You don't know why? Do you base the unknown knowledge on science inability to explain it....

I don't want to accept you are doging this question

To me I will called it ignorance........because you are lacking the knowledge of the universe....

I know why don't you hear it from me......


If I don't know I ask so that I can be remove fr ignorance world.......

701ecilana:

@bolded, so what is this thing which existed before?
Note: God doesn't exists because existence goes with time, and He is timeless.

hopefulLandlord:


big bang posits the universe existed as a singularity before it, at no point does it posit "The universe was nothing"

which is the most sensible thing to do, history favours this type of thinking over simpletons that simply call anything science has not explained as "goddidit", so many things in the past that god was used as explanation for has been unraveled and no god was found, so forgive me for not accepting the god hypothesis, I cannot and I would not as its simply lazy thinking




there's absolutely no knowledge you posses about the universe that science doesn't! the only thing you pretend to be knowledge that science doesn't posses only exist in your own head with NO evidence whatsoever


non sequitur, the god hypothesis is simply filled with ignorance

At the end of the day “God” is nothing more than a chimera: part fear, part hope, part ever-shrinking sum of what we do not yet understand.

vaxx:
k have settle you first assumption by providing science explanation that the universe has a adate she was born.....and that is around 13 Blliomw years..... Scientists say so not believer.....

Nothing is impotent..... The universe can begin from from nothing.. It must be from something..... I have deal with the topic honorably.....you can check my topic..... No balance believer will say the universe came from nothing..... That is illogical.....

I have gotten the knowledge that science can disprove or proof .....it is the knowledge of the process..... i know him by his attribute...therefore I am not ignorant anymore.......

hopefulLandlord:


"has a date she was born" talk of circular reasoning

all you've done so far is misrepresent the big bang theory to fit the cosmological argument

"The universe began to exist" has never been proven by anybody

in your previous post here you've admitted the universe did exist in another form before the big bang

that's interesting, you've gotten the knowledge science can prove/disprove hahaha and that knowledge is the knowledge of the process, you happen to know the process and you found god, lol classic god of the gaps, seems we've gotten to the end of it, where you see god I see ignorance

Horlufemi:


It's logical in believing there is a Creator than believing life forming from nothing.

There is a creator shikena.

vaxx:
I don't want us to ave a circular debate..... It has been proving by scientist that is the universe has a starting date.....the universe began to exist around 13 bllion years ago....that is science explanation...

In my previous post, where do I admit that error?


That is absolutely illogical if I said So....can hiu lost that my illogical comment.....I want to tell myself I am wrong....


Am very scientific and also rational.....i dont fall into ignorance of the gap fallacy.......


The universe has a caused and the cause is olodumare ...aka God..,


Where you see ignorance....i see enlightenment


l

hopefulLandlord:


evolution does not say anything about the origin of life, it only talks about the diversification of lifeforms

hopefulLandlord:
EVEN IF we concede the entire Kalam Cosmological argument as true, it does not prove the existence of a god. Not even a little bit. As Hitchens once opined, "all your work is still ahead of you."

It doesn't even make it more plausible than an all-natural, no-god-needed cause
From a simple man's point of view, corollary from the Kalam Cosmological argument proof, that God caused the universe, is not self-evident. Yet theists pass it off as such. Here's how your argument goes

1: Whatever begins to exist had a cause
2: The universe began to exist
3: Therefore, the universe had a cause
4: Corollary: God was that cause

For those that don't just believe in a god, ASSUMING the base Kalam Cosmological argument logic is complete, there seems to be a whole lot missing between 3 and 4. The only corollary that one can logically conclude -- again, assuming the base Kalam Cosmological argument is complete -- is that our understanding is incomplete. Could it be a god? Maybe. But there's nothing provided in the argument that would logically lead to that conclusion.

see? even if I'm being as charitable as I could, its all guesses and gaps

ZandhaZaraZ:
This is an IRRELEVANT argument. Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life on EARTH, let alone the origin of the UNIVERSE in its entirety.

Whether it was created or not is RELEVANT and INDISPENSABLE to the argument. Since the entire argument is that everything that began to exist must have a creator, so if your alleged creator also has a creator, that automatically defeats your argument. And, you mentioned it yourself that information can't create itself. That would mean your God, who MUST be made of information, couldn't have created himself either, and the same thing applies to his creator, ad infinitum. You either accept an ETERNAL universe, or an [IMPOSSIBLE, irrational] infinite regress.

There is no creator. The universe doesn't have a beginning.

Who told you that being transcendent forbids one from being created? Weren't the angels and demons CREATED? Don't they transcend time and space? Your point here is invalid.

Horlufemi: