₦airaland Forum

Dindondin:
and that's what technocrats ll do. Cos if someone has a reputation to protect, he/she ll explore quick n effective solutions to Nigerians enormous needs. Not to compound it like PMB and his APC family.

The only thing a technocrat can do now is to deregulate the downstream sector...so that marketers big and small will sell fuel at the price they want to sell...make a profit..and plow some of that profit into more jobs, better facilities, etc.

Keeping prices low...is good politics, but bad economics. (Yes, I mean the APC govt).

I really wonder y some people are so daft. Why don't, t u compare minimum wage in us and in Nigeria also. Daft people.

Partnerbiz:
Each time comparisons are made, you people will just be making baseless dollar to naira conversion..

So people make money in naira in the US?

Simple economics.

Dindondin:
and that's what technocrats ll do. Cos if someone has a reputation to protect, he/she ll explore quick n effective solutions to Nigerians enormous needs. Not to compound it like PMB and his APC family.

Why is it that we all think there are no technocrats currently in this present govt. NOI did not do whatever she did alone, I believe those that worked with her are still in the ministries. If the foundation is bad, there is nothing a professional would do until you go back and mend that foundation.

Cromcruach91:
The argument i made was not made by the current admin intially....it was made years ago in the 1990's.

The current admin, when they raised prices , also sabotaged themselves by stopping at N145. Then, crude oil was selling at $30 and below...so it made sense. Now crude is selling at $70...we still import a lot of fuel...so prices have to go up.

But govt...still keeps fuel price at N145...even though it is not practicable.sadly....and forces marketers to have a loss of N30 per liter...hence the scarcity.


BUT....if govt removed price controls, and allowed marketers to set prices...you know, like what every other businessman does in Nigeria....prices will shoot up, but more money will flow in...leading to more investment, more people coming into the business, more competiton, more funds for NNPC to improve facilities, and eventually prices come down.

That is what happened with GSM. We went from a N7000-10000 for a sim to N500....because GSM companies used the excess money they earned from selling those N7000 sims to invest....and new investors are being attracted (9MOBILE has at least 5 foreign investors lining up to buy it, once etisalat left).

What's your solution? And it isn't more refineries...because the builders of the refineries too have to make their profits, hire staff, pay staff, etc...and that can't be done on N145 per liter PMS.

I understand ur point bro, and am.sorry for saying Shut up. the things is that, no price of any commodity in this country has ever come down once it goes up. If the people should allow Nnpc or Fg to increase the fuel price again, the hardship will b so un bearable. No way no way, the price will not come down again..This is Nigeria my brother

Pesuzok:
Why is it that we all think there are no technocrats currently in this present govt. NOI did not do whatever she did alone, I believe those that worked with her are still in the ministries. If the foundation is bad, there is nothing a professional would do until you go back and mend that foundation.

in my first post where I mentioned technocrats, I said technocrats with conscience. APC knows what to do but their back foundation won't let them do it. They just pancaked a little of PDPs achievement and think that's enough to woo Nigerians for 2nd term bandage. Never!

Originality007:
I understand ur point bro, and am.sorry for saying Shut up. the things is that, no price of any commodity in this country has ever come down once it goes up. If the people should allow Nnpc or Fg to increase the fuel price again, the hardship will b so un bearable. No way no way, the price will not come down again..This is Nigeria my brother

No problem.

Deregulation is a tough and bitter pill to swallow...but the long term benefits are there....including lower prices eventually.

Cromcruach91:
No problem.

Deregulation is a tough and bitter pill to swallow...but the long term benefits are there....including lower prices eventually.

Why should the masses always have to swallow pills are they pregnant, why can't all these govt ppl swallow pills by reducing their salaries and allowances. We no go agree o. The last increase what happened the minister said after 6 months price will reduce, is it the masses fault that they didn't do their maths properly.

Yet no mention of building/upgrading the refineries.

Nigeria is a lost case.

.Mark you age today. Twenty years from today, you will still be dealing with the same problems. Folks from the 70s and 80s relied on prayers and hope without lifting a finger. Today they are still seeing the same corruption, bad roads, no electricity, etc that Fela sang about in the 70s. History is repeating itself.

Bunch of idiotic hypocrites,because of shame n deception Apc is now calling subsidy as underecovery, you people are only fooling yourselves n your bunch of gullible zombies.

Almighty Alha Wil Nt Let Wahala Finish In Ur Life because U Buari And Ur Ofo Party Betray Us And I Belive God Wil Purnish U At Last because Etanwaje Aaaaaaaaaaaaa Etungbewa Mora Oju Matinyin Kehin Nio.

Cromcruach91:
No problem.

Deregulation is a tough and bitter pill to swallow...but the long term benefits are there....including lower prices eventually.

deregulation of downstream does automatically mean not lower prices t basically means sustainable price and supply[/b]regime of the products concerned.

the [b]art and the act of pursuing lower price of refined products is a whole different policy altogether when it comes to the oil industry.

being:
But what exactly is wrong with subsidizing?!!

the only issue I see with it is the fraud that comes with it. which is why nnpc should be the sole importer to at least limit the fraud to nnpc.

When nnpc talks about underrecovery, this amount has already been over recovered by the increase in crude oil price.

You sell unrefined at $40 you buy refined at $50

Now you sell unrefined at $70 you buy refined at $80.

So the loss due to higher import expense has been offset by higher export income.

If we decide not to see it this way and agree on buying at N175 per litre, when oil gets back to it's 2014 price- $110; we will be buying at more than N250 per litre following the same tortoise logic.
The question then is why does $110 per barrel of crude in 2014 translate to N97 and then $110 in 2018 translate to N250 per litre of petrol? It's simply the CBN FX rate. (No wonder our reserves is growing in leaps and bounds) That's a story for another day.



What we should be talking about is increasing the capacity of d NNPC to import 100% of our needs while other marketers buy from them.

Some people blamed lack of local refineries for all these price brouhaha- truth is if there are local refineries, are they expected to buy at int'l price and in dollars? if they are, then prices will still be high subject to int'l price.

If Nigeria had functional refineries, they will buy crude at international price but the landed cost won't be up to #175 naira as there won't b need to pay Freight and other import Logistics cost. Secondly there will be enough supply to meet demand (which is the cause of scarcity and black market prices).
Invariably, local refineries is part of the solution atleast to address the issue of scarcity.
Nigerians should be prepared for higher prices cos the price of crude oil is and will keep smiling upwards.
It's a cycle.

Cromcruach91:
Well

1[b].If you owned a business, and govt was forcing you to sell your goods for far less than you bought them...would you be happy? Would you find it easy to stay in business?
[/b]

That is what happens under subsidy.

2.Venezuela heavily subsidies fuel....they sell it four times less than we do...and their foreign reserves are so low that they are in crisis.(They are down to their last $10million, we are up to $40million in reserves)

3.There is no big deal in govt subsidizing fuel...so long as govt could afford it. Thing is...we can't afford it...and even if we could...marketers would still be losing money...and scarcity would happen

4.And even if we build more refineries....see my point one. Refinery owners cannot survive with fuel at N145 per liter...they want to make their money to pay staff, etc.

What exactly do you think you know about economics?
I'm not even talking about theory here.
If you think deregulation will fuel scarcity shi.t you're in for a long thing. Not in this country where there is always a back door to make the worst of every government policy.
It's so unfortunate that we have to be importing refined petroleum products.
We deregulated the power sector, but what have we got? Same old shi.t. All we have now are DisCos operating on the template of NEPA. Nothing has changed, except that tariff soaring higher with nothing to show for it.
Same thing will happen if the oil sector is deregulated.

The government should build NNPC capacity to import all the products volumes we need then sell it to independent marketers at the subsidized rate, while building the capacity of our local refineries to meet the local demands (this should have been our focus 40 years ago).
Petroleum products (especially PMS) is a public goods in Nigeria (if you know what I mean) and the government should not leave its people at the mercies of some marketers whose aim is profits and nothing more.
Putting an end to importation of refined petroleum products should be a national policy for every successive government to pursue.
If we have state owned refineries that work, over time, our dependence on imported products will fall until we can meet local demands.
The government can also make arrangements with a number of refineries abroad, giving them crude oil in exchange for refined petroleum products (ensure to specify expected numbers of litres per barrel of crude oil given) if they averse to subsidy. However, a measure should be put in place to check corruption.

The source of all of these problems is because we import these products, which is subject to fluctuations in exchange rates. I don't see how exchange rate will obey orders from deregulation.
So as long as the value of our currency keeps falling, the deregulated price of oil will keep rising and the common man bear the brunt while a few individual smile to the bank.
Let's find a way to stop importing petroleum products (which in many ways, contributes to the deficiency in out foreign exchange) by promoting local productions, over time, we'll all be happy for it.
This is a lasting solution, deregulation will make things even worse.
I wrote my thesis on Oil and I tested possible case scenarios. If the sector is deregulated, Nigeria is finished. It will come a time when the government will have to fix the maximum price and we're back to where we are.
If you want to solve a problem, you start from the cause, not the effects.

It's obvious that Buhari is not the solution to Nigeria's problems. In fact he has no clue as to which direction to go. Even as the Petroleum minister, Nigerians are faced with the worst fuel crisis ever. And even with his claim that Boko Haram would be defeated by December 2015, there is no end in sight to the problem of insecurity in Nigeria, instead we are having more security challenges and he remains ever clueless. Buhari should borrow a leaf from other non performing African heads of state and do the needful, which is to resign.

otr1:
What exactly do you think you know about economics?
I'm not even talking about theory here.
If you think deregulation will fuel scarcity shi.t you're in for a long thing. Not in this country where there is always a back door to make the worst of every government policy.
It's so unfortunate that we have to be importing refined petroleum products.
We deregulated the power sector, but what have we got? Same old shi.t. All we have now are DisCos operating on the template of NEPA. Nothing has changed, except that tariff soaring higher with nothing to show for it.
Same thing will happen if the oil sector is deregulated.

The government should build NNPC capacity to import all the products volumes we need then sell it to independent marketers at the subsidized rate, while building the capacity of our local refineries to meet the local demands (this should have been our focus 40 years ago).
Petroleum products (especially PMS) is a public goods in Nigeria (if you know what I mean) and the government should not leave its people at the mercies of some marketers whose aim is profits and nothing more.
Putting an end to importation of refined petroleum products should be a national policy for every successive government to pursue.
If we have state owned refineries that work, over time, our dependence on imported products will fall until we can meet local demands.
The government can also make arrangements with a number of refineries abroad, giving them crude oil in exchange for refined petroleum products (ensure to specify expected numbers of litres per barrel of crude oil given) if they averse to subsidy. However, a measure should be put in place to check corruption.

The source of all of these problems is because we import these products, which is subject to fluctuations in exchange rates. I don't see how exchange rate will obey orders from deregulation.
So as long as the value of our currency keeps falling, the deregulated price of oil will keep rising and the common man bear the brunt while a few individual smile to the bank.
Let's find a way to stop importing petroleum products (which in many ways, contributes to the deficiency in out foreign exchange) by promoting local productions, over time, we'll all be happy for it.
This is a lasting solution, deregulation will make things even worse.
I wrote my thesis on Oil and I tested possible case scenarios. If the sector is deregulated, Nigeria is finished. It will come a time when the government will have to fix the maximum price and we're back to where we are.
If you want to solve a problem, you start from the cause, not the effects.

it does not change the fact that you have a choice of either you continue subsidy or you do not continue subsidy

either way the price goes, Nigerian must suffer.
the 87 to 145 promise is dashed already.
but the NBS will come tomorrow and tell the sweet story that inflation drops by 30 percent as well as the consumer price products.

mamotalk:
either way the price goes, Nigerian must suffer.
the 87 to 145 promise is dashed already.
but the NBS will come tomorrow and tell the sweet story that inflation drops by 30 percent as well as the consumer price products.

hmmm

Cromcruach91:
In the US, who will soon be the world's largest oil producer...fuel costs 0.72-0.76 Dollars per liter...or N259-N276 per liter.

That's because the petroleum industry there cannot rely on govt for subsides...so they are free to sell fuel at a profitable price.

And they refine their fuel at home by the way.....

Do you know how much is minimum wage in the us? Shame on Africa

Kposkila:
Do you know how much is minimum wage in the us? Shame on Africa

Do you know the US is a rich country? That means they can afford to subsidize fuel to that it's citizens will pay much less.

But they won't because it amounts to telling a businessman that he should sell products at a loss.

You won't like it if govt dictates the prices of the goods you sell as a businessman, yet you want them to do the same for marketers, at a loss even.

Schizoid thinking.

Deregulation is the answer

being:
Is the government really shelling out?

What you imply is despite that we are an oil producing nation, we the citizens should buy fuel at int'l oil price. and that money should be used for capital expenditure. But then what's the point- our consumption is less than 12% of our crude production- with a 25% under recovery, this translates to about 3% net income reduction for the NNPC- why subject people to hardship because of this? especially when you realize that the money could even be embezzled.

See what I mean. That petrol should be cheaper because we have crude oil. See the mentality of the average Nigerian that keeps us perpetually in slavery. But ask yourself if you were Nigeria, will you 'make' petrol cheaper simply because you have it. Or does a farmer eat cheaper yams because he cultivates it. Or ask yourself what happens to banks that give out cheaper loans to their staff because their vaults are full or the defunct Nigerian Airways giving out cheaper (free) tickets to its staff travelling all over the world for holidays. Ask them what happened. Yes, the Japanese buy Hondas cheaper than the Americans abi. Go to Japan and buy. But everyone comes from Chad and Niger and Cameroun to buy our petrol and smuggle same at our expense because we are just that....CHEAP FOOLS. They make a living off our stupidity. We pay with our blood for their livelihood and pleasure.

Nonsense people who will allow herdsmen from all over West and North Africa to come in and 'graze cattle' free and murder those who resist. Tell them to buy land for their business and they say no because the land is free.

Pally, those who donot want to sacrifice for value will remain slaves in perpetuity. America has more oil than Nigeria. Who will make it free for them. Is it Exxon or Shell. Who will pay?...is it Donald Trump. You must be joking. Americans pay their bills. Nothing comes free for them so they are free from everyone. Stop this useless mental slavery. Insist on right prices for right services for right living. Then and only then can you hold authorities accountable. Right now you have no say absolutely.

Cromcruach91:
Do you know the US is a rich country? That means they can afford to subsidize fuel to that it's citizens will pay much less.

But they won't because it amounts to telling a businessman that he should sell products at a loss.

You won't like it if govt dictates the prices of the goods you sell as a businessman, yet you want them to do the same for marketers, at a loss even.

Schizoid thinking.

Deregulation is the answer

if your economy is in double inflation and your nation does not have refineries and the exchange range is 350% above the dollars.
how is deregulation of prices be a sustainable answer

Reference:
See what I mean. That petrol should be cheaper because we have crude oil. See the mentality of the average Nigerian that keeps us perpetually in slavery. But ask yourself if you were Nigeria, will you 'make' petrol cheaper simply because you have it. Or does a farmer eat cheaper yams because he cultivates it. Or ask yourself what happens to banks that give out cheaper loans to their staff because their vaults are full or the defunct Nigerian Airways giving out cheaper (free) tickets to its staff travelling all over the world for holidays. Ask them what happened. Yes, the Japanese buy Hondas cheaper than the Americans abi. Go to Japan and buy. But everyone comes from Chad and Niger and Cameroun to buy our peteol and smugle it because we are just that....CHEAP FOOLS. They make a living off our stupidity. We pay with our blood for their livelihood and pleasure.

Nonsense people who will allow herdsmen from all over West and North Africa to come in and 'graze cattle' free and murder those who resist. Tell them to buy land for their business and they say no because the land is free.

Pally, those who donot want to sacrifice for value will remain slaves in perpetuity. America has more oil than Nigeria. Who will make it free for them. Is it Exxon or Shell. Who will pay?...is it Donald Trump. You must be joking. Americans pay their bills. Nothing comes free for them so they are free from everyone. Stop this useless mental slavery. Insist on right prices for right services for right living. Then and only then can you hold authorities accountable. Right now you have no say absolutely.

that Nigeria produces crude at international price but has not functioning refineries. how will the petrol be cheap

joudini:
Clowns.

There is nothing like NNPC paying millions out of it's own money.

NNPC does not have it's own money. It is a govt agency. Fully owned and run by govt. All agencies of govt are within purview of govt in it's income and expenditure.

These clowns have been paying subsidy but want to confuse people by naming it "under recovery".

The effect on the balance sheet is the same.

Thanks sir, this Government just wish we were illiterate so they can use their grammar tweaks to fool all