₦airaland Forum

First you say Oba is not necessarily king in Edo then you are trying to use the Language to claim Oba of lagos? Check your logic again.

Oba Sijuade Okunade. Ooni is a title. "Oba of Lagos" is English language. What is the title of the king of Benin?  Is he called Oba of Benin in Edo Language? Wow dude check your logic. Ooni is his title and he is the Oba of Lagos. You want to use Language to claim that Oba doesn't necessarily mean king in Benin if it's just the regalia then do you guys call chiefs Obas too? Chiefs wear regalias too. The name is the banished prince is Prince Ekaladerhan. If anything, Edo and Yoruba (which people are yet to understand is not a tribe or just one ethnic group) came from same source and all this you came from me talks among the Obas is just a matter of superiority complex. I'm Aromire and according to what I'm told, we owe no king homage because we made the king! What do you call the Oba of Benin in Edo language. Alaafin of Oyo, Awujale of Ijebu land. Eleko the king of Lagos was a little king under Ife just. I doubt the ancient Edo and Yoruba people were debating like this.! Let it go!!

9jaganja:
Oranyan isn't the son of Oduduwa unless there is a chronologic mistake somewhere or dates aren't accurate. If this stories were Oral, how are you able to ascribe a date to it? Oral tradition has one problem which is dates. It is is almost a perfect tradition to preserve history but date is it's predator. European accounts claims that Sango who existed long before Oduduwa existed in the 14th century. I don't want to go back and forth with you on who is who or what is what. Ile Ife has been important throughout it's existence don't use wordplay to disregard it (I read between the lines too partner).

Oranyan according to Edo's story was the son of an Edo prince who was banished from somewhere in Edo land and came to Yoruba land where he established himself and lived with Yorubas and married a Yoruba woman. When The king makers came to look for the banished prince to make him king, he couldn't go because he was to old and weak to travel but his son, Oranyan who is half Yoruba went with them and established the city now known as Benin. He became the first Oba of Benin not the first king in Benin. He built a bridge between his Monther's and Father's lands. That is why there is still an Oba in Benin today because the first Oba was born and bred in Yoruba land and was accustomed to Yoruba culture whoch he took with him to Benin. Oba doesn't mean no red regalia shiiiiit. And I never stated that you wanted Yorubas to pay homage. Something else triggered that.

I'm not bias that is why I said what I deducted from Yoruba incantations. The guy narrating in that video can not be Yoruba with his ascent when calling Oduduwa. Dude Odudwa wasn't the first Yoruba and Ile Ife has been of importance before Oduduwa ever stepped foot on this planet. The first Yorubas are the divine ones Orumila and his gods including Obatala. You need a deep understanding of Yoruba's mystery system for you to understand our chronology.

All white folks come with is trying to understand African cultures. Only condescending European historians claim to understand African cultures so they can attach backwardness to it when Europeans have been practicing Sharia law long before Islam,  Yorubas are not expansionists they just naturally have kingdoms after Ile Ife disintegrated. I don't think any Yoruba is claiming what is not their' here except people trying to deny who are not Yoruba or even their neighboring tribe trying to distort Yoruba history with wiki and bia sites. Even the wiki they are quoting stated that the Egun people in Badagary came from Ile Ife and worship Yoruba gods. I'm Lagosian down to my religion.

Firstly, I'm not ascribing dates to Oduduwa. He is simply claimed to the main founder (and not a stranger to an already developed place) in many accounts of Yoruba history by Yorubas. But actual physical evidence shows Ife was developed much earlier than would be possible for Oduduwa's direct grandson to be the first Oba of Benin (and I'm well aware there were rulers in Benin before Oba Eweka I who were not Obas) if he were in fact the founder of Ife.

Sango/Shango as I understand it is a Yoruba deity as well as possibly being an early Oyo empire monarch. However Ife predates Oyo both from oral accounts and actual archaeological evidence, so if he were a deified Oyo monarch I don't see how he could be before a founder of Ife. If he was an even earlier king not from Oyo who was deified and made a god or not even a king but just an individual deity, then we can't be sure when he existed exactly, without reference to some specific city, state, or place.

As far as the Egun not being Yoruba, I never claimed that but I see that some other people did; but I've never read from any legitimate source that they weren't so I'm not going to address that as that is someone else's claim to defend.

And I don't know where it is you think I insinuated that Ife wasn't important throughout its history, but if that's the impression you got then I'm sorry that I wrote whatever could lead to that interpretation, but I wasn't stating any such thing. If anything I stated that Lagos is only important for lesser (non-historical, non-cultural), commercial reasons and only by geographical and historical fortune.

9jaganja:
First you say Oba is not necessarily king in Edo then you are trying to use the Language to claim Oba of lagos? Check your logic again.

Oba Sijuade Okunade. Ooni is a title. "Oba of Lagos" is English language. What is the title of the king of Benin?  Is he called Oba of Benin in Edo Language? Wow dude check your logic. Ooni is his title and he is the Oba of Lagos. You want to use Language to claim that Oba doesn't necessarily mean king in Benin if it's just the regalia then do you guys call chiefs Obas too? Chiefs wear regalias too. The name is the banished prince is Prince Ekaladerhan. If anything, Edo and Yoruba (which people are yet to understand is not a tribe or just one ethnic group) came from same source and all this you came from me talks among the Obas is just a matter of superiority complex. I'm Aromire and according to what I'm told, we owe no king homage because we made the king! What do you call the Oba of Benin in Edo language. Alaafin of Oyo, Awujale of Ijebu land. Eleko  the king of Lagos was a little king under Ife just. I doubt the ancient Edo and Yoruba people were debating like this.! Let it go!!

I didn't say Oba is not necessarily king in Edo. Oba is king in Edo. I explained that the probable etymology of the word, from the Oba's shining red regalia is what started the use of that word as meaning king for Edos, then implied that the Oba of Lagos would probably have used the same word for king simply from Benin influence, but that as Edo and Yoruba likely originate from the same language, it would be possible for Yoruba's to have the same word without it indicating that either Benin people or the Yorubas gave the other group the word (and without them necessarily having to have the same etymology).

I'm fine with letting it go and have never claimed that Yorubas came from Edos. Peace for now.

[size=14pt]If with what I have posted detailing the vast cosmopolitan nature of Lagos which did not in any way or manner corroborated the Bini sham stories, someone still has the guts and effrontery to come out and talk of some vague Bini influence in Lagos, that person to my reckoning is a block head.

To all intent and purposes the Tapas OR nupe’s can claim to have contributed in no small measure to the cultural hybrid that Lagos evolved into in the late 19th Century, their influence in the customs and traditions of Lagos cannot be over-emphasises,  so also the part they played with the growth and spread of Islam, this more than anything is of immense significance than some alien from the moon called Binis whose antecedents are no wear to be found, unlike the Nupe’s, 


The centre of the world after the creation was once(We are talking of creationism here, as a Christian I believe God created heaven and Earth) the Middle East, our lord Jesus was born there, Mohammed was born there, every race grew out of there, with that fact established would it be right for present day Middle Easterner’s who were once  at the epic centre of man’s civilisation to claim faraway land’s just because some distant citizen’s of the Middle East Migrated East, North, West, and South.

The Bini’s claim to Lagos is not any different from the scenario described above, in fact the recent Oyo Empire’s influence which came after the Bini Kingdom’s supposedly reign has made any remote claim of the Bini’s influence in Lagos pale into infinitum, calling it an hapless exercise would not be over exaggerating the level of its insignificance.

The thought itself and the unsolicited paradigm has become convoluted ranting of self styled Bini historians whose unsubstantiated stance have become the butts of jokes in Yoruba communities, this self delusion which some individuals want to continue wallowing in, is acceptable, after all our constitution grant us and guarantees us our God giving right to express our selves no matter how whimsical and deranged the theory seems to be.


The influence of Binis in Lagos can only be reminiscent to someone telling you a Ghanaian once lived in Lagos Island in the 16th century with no trace of name or linage, the Bini story should be seen as a Morden day fables that should be told to the marines OR better still told to some minuscule tribe in Edo State for self aggrandizement.[/size]

PhysicsQED:
Keep fooling yourself with wikipedia quotes and nonsensical reasoning. There isn't a single f.ucking thing about Lagos that's special. Much of it is a dump and is has no cultural significance to anybody. It's entire reason for prominence are a combination of geographical and historical factors (Benin monarchs founding it, and later its prominence in the slave trade), nothing to do with Aworis or any other Yorubas making it into some great city. Some Benin people turned it from a fishing village to a significant city, some Yorubas made it into a slave trading hub, and it has no other importance.

Even debating with someone who hasn't bothered to read any Benin history, but relies on wikipedia, of all things, is pointless.

Some runaway Benin people influenced the founding of Onitsha, and lo and behold, there is a monarchy in Onitsha (Obi of Onitsha) (Obviously there are other monarchies in Igboland, but this one was a little more prominent than most of the others)

Some Benin prince went to Warri and lo and behold, there is a monarchy in Warri (Olu of Itsekiri/Olu of Warri).

Some Benin monarch went to Lagos, but simpletons would have us believe that they simply went there to fish and mate with the natives, who were the true builders of the city into an important commercial center. Pure nonsense. You obviously know nothing about just how imperialistic Benin was and why they were so successful. For a rudimentary introduction, mull over this:

http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=964084686&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=964084686.pdf


There are many many other books, if you're interested. Or you can remain ignorant, and dream that a tiny Yoruba fishing village became Lagos simply because the Yoruba fishermen spontaneously decided to build a real city.

like i said, keep fooling yourself with fictional write ups.

there's a lot of that going round these days, because most of you feel you need to "one up" the yoruba and present yourselves somehow to outsiders.

as per your wild allegations of lagos being developed by benin- you must have skipped the parts where i categorically stated lagos became important due to it's location as one of the major slave markets on the guinea coast vis a vis the portuguese.

yorubas are an urban people. Is lagos the only large city in the southwest?

I doubt the ancient Edo and Yoruba people were debating like this.

gbam.

tpiah:
^^you seem very clueless for an edo person.


let me guess- your story get small k-leg, right.

see something:

A smarter (no pun intended) person would have known it was a typo.

this thread is very educative.
BEAF needs to be more receptive.

Marginalised or requests not granted doesn't by any way push the Egun-Awori sects to be 2nd class. Dividing the state by whatever manner sounds ok but at the same time unapplauded by me. Let's just pray the state's image gets a good reputation like Gov. Fasola is doing now. @Poster: nice job.

olafolarin:
this thread is very educative.
BEAF needs to be more receptive.

What do you mean? I believe I have been exceptionally receptive.
Do you know more than the Lagos royalty I quoted liberally?

It is left for the dreamy eyed to deny reality, as well as stretch the definition of Yoruba to include Ghanaian languages; how do these tribalists think Egun people feel about it? Do the Egun deserve their own identity? The tribalists don't care.
Is it any wonder that Egun people feel marginalised enough to want a state carved out away so they can have a sense of identity?

Tribalists always live in cuckoo land, creating their own private versions of reality like Hitler did.
We spectators will only look on and laugh most of the time, at other times, we will speak strongly.
Tribalism is the act of shooting oneself in the foot and placing the arse in the mouth.

Egun is not Yoruba. Let it kill the tribalists here giving each other solace and talking schizoid crap.
Again. . . This is the proof;

[flash=480,385]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3FIWNdQcTM&hl=en_GB&fs=1[/flash]

BEAF needs to be more receptive

oxymoron.

@physicsQED: Benin founders of Ontsha is laughable. The Benin expansion and campaigns eastwards were a matter of some demographic consequence for the Igbo, the Onitsha whom you claim left Benin were just elements of Igbo population thrown back eastwards by Benin expansion.
Even as am chatting here, a tradition has recently come to light that Chima, the legendary ancestor of the Onitsha people , whom some people believed to have been a Binin refugee, was an Aro oracle agent and slave dealer. Chima is  a name encountered mostly among the Aro. Go and figure.

tpiah:
oxymoron.

OXY slowpoke. . . . .ahhhh, now thats more like it!

Andre Uweh:
@physicsQED: Benin founders of Ontsha is laughable. The Benin expansion and campaigns eastwards were a matter of some demographic consequence for the Igbo, the Onitsha whom you claim left Benin were just elements of Igbo population thrown back eastwards by Benin expansion.
Even as am chatting here, a tradition has recently come to light that Chima, the legendary ancestor of the Onitsha people , whom some people believed to have been a Binin refugee, was an Aro oracle agent and slave dealer. Chima is  a name encountered mostly among the Aro. Go and figure.

I actually never claimed they were Benin people. I claimed they were in Benin. Read the sections where I mentioned Onitsha again and you'll see that unlike the claim I made for Warri, and for Lagos, I never claimed they were actual Edo people. Unlike yourself I've read enough of Adiele Afigbo and Isidore Okpewho for that to be obvious. It was actually Igbos, such as Nnamdi Azikiwe, in a famous Journal of Negro History article, who started claiming that they were descendants of Benin people. No Edo man who has even the slightest grasp of his own language, and who has even the least familiarity with Igbo names, could ever think that anybody named "Chima" was a Benin man. That's unmistakeably Igbo.

The whole story of "Chima" being some sort of Benin rebel who fled east is implausible because of the name for one and because there actually were groups of people, such as the Esan and some people who mixed in with the Urhobo, who got the hell out of Benin when the dramas and Edo mini civil wars (Benin City vs. Udo, etc.) occurred, and these people never felt the need to cross the Niger or change their language to such an extreme that there was not any similarity to Benin languages in them at all. It's extremely likely that some Igbo scholar made up that story.

Also, if you knew more about Benin, you would know that it had reached the level of development where "foreigners" (not the Portuguese, that's obvious), such as Itsekiri, Urhobo, and Igbo traders and residents had moved to the capital city (ironically enough, in the same way that people are moving to Lagos now, and in the same way that many non-Edo people live in Benin city today and have lived there for decades/centuries) so its entirely plausible for some migrant Igbos to have lived there and then left back to their heartland.

PhysicsQED:
I actually never claimed they were Benin people. I claimed they were in Benin. Read the sections where I mentioned Onitsha again and you'll see that unlike the claim I made for Warri, and for Lagos, I never claimed they were actual Edo people. Unlike yourself I've read enough of Adiele Afigbo and Isidore Okpewho for that to be obvious. It was actually Igbos, such as Nnamdi Azikiwe, in a famous Journal of Negro History article, who started claiming that they were descendants of Benin people. No Edo man who has even the slightest grasp of his own language, and who has even the least familiarity with Igbo names, could ever think that anybody named "Chima" was a Benin man. That's unmistakeably Igbo.

The whole story of "Chima" being some sort of Benin rebel who fled east is implausible because of the name for one and because there actually were groups of people, such as the Esan and some people who mixed in with the Urhobo, who got the hell out of Benin when the dramas and Edo mini civil wars (Benin City vs. Udo, etc.) occurred, and these people never felt the need to cross the Niger or change their language to such an extreme that there was not any similarity to Benin languages in them at all. It's extremely likely that some Igbo scholar made up that story.

Also, if you knew more about Benin, you would know that it had reached the level of development where "foreigners" (not the Portuguese, that's obvious), such as Itsekiri, Urhobo, and Igbo traders and residents had moved to the capital city (ironically enough, in the same way that people are moving to Lagos now, and in the same way that many non-Edo people live in Benin city today and have lived there for decades/centuries) so its entirely plausible for some migrant Igbos to have lived there and then left back to their heartland.

what many onitshas believe is that their original home was ado west of benin.they left there after beating up the obas wife and migrated eastwards.

Hmmm, I'm not familiar with that specific story but even considering the amount of internal strife among the elite and all the dynastic succession intrigues in Benin, the story about the beating up of the Oba's wife (queen) is still implausible.

Correction: I did call the Igbos who were in Benin and influenced the founding of Onitsha, "runaway Benin people"  in an earlier post (later I specified that they were "people who were in Benin" so actually Andre Uweh, I owe you an apology, that was my mistake in phrasing it that way in the first instance that I mentioned Onitsha. Your interpretation was reasonable given the way I stated it. However, as I alluded to in a previous post, the truth that some Onitsha Igbos, and most, if not all delta Igbos, have always been Igbos, albeit with some possible outside influence, had long been obvious to me after reading Adiele Afigbo's writing on this subject. While the possibility exists that some were originally Binis, nothing definite can be stated. They could have mostly or partially all have been originally Bini, just as they could originally have been Igbo. Nothing really definite can be stated in this regards.

As for the claim that Onitsha Igbos are Aro descended/related or that their monarchy is, I've actually just never heard it and would be interested in the full story.

I have to bookmark this thread. so much for my Lagos.

cjay10:
Please what is the Latest in the Lagoon State creation?? i heard Lagoon state is not among the listed names of states to be created at the National Assembly? kindly update me with the latest news if you have. Thanks

we are still waiting for the updates.

I have to rush to naira land to google lagoon state imagine this thing has been on plan since 2010 this is 15 years later and about to come into effect.