Nowenuse:


My ethnic group is Pyem.
There are so many ethnic groups in not just Plateau alone. Southern Kaduna has more ethnic groups than Plateau. Taraba and Adamawa are just something else, both states have more than 120 ethnic groups combined.

The reason for this heavy heterogeneity is simple. DIVIDE AND RULE THEM.

Actually, most of these ethnic groups in Plateau and environs are very similar to each other in language, cultures etc, but they were heavily divided by the colonial administration and indirect rule, in order to ensure that no group is large enough to challenge Hausa domination of the entire northern region.

Take for instance, when the missionaries came, they wanted to use the Ngas language to evangelize the entire Plateau and environs cos they obviously saw how similar this language was to others around, but the British heavily rejected this and urged the missionaries to use Hausa language for evangelism. There was an Ngas bible before a Hausa bible.

The British and Sokoto sultanate very well knew that the missionaries would have united all Plateau people and environs with Ngas language, forming a very large christian ethnic group which would heavily rival Hausa-fulani domination of the northern region.

The missionaries agreed and used Hausa instead and this is why Hausa eventually became the lingua franca on the Plateau and environs.

Also, it was said that due to the highness of the Plateau, many ethnic groups from far and wide sought refuge there against fulani jihad, hence the reason for the heavy heterogeneity. This actually makes no sense to me, cos all the areas neighbouring Plateau are equally heavily heterogenous. Also, Southern Kaduna was never conquered by fulani jihad, yet they were not on the Plateau.

Bauchi state actually has more ethnic groups than Plateau state and were of similar ethnic stocks to Plateau people, only that unfortunately most of them accepted islam and today they have been Hausanized. Lost and lost forever.

My boss.....Can you refrence me any material to read on your source of info. I want to know how authentic they are. I'm asking because I know the Ngas bible is just made up of one testament. I don't know if the second testament has been completed. How then can we say the Ngas bible is older than the Hausa bible that has both old and new testament ? The Hausa bible was what was used to spread Christianity across the north I will want to believe.
I have seen the berom bible. It is complete. Made up of both old and new testament. I will want to believe then that the berom started work on the bible before the Ngas since the have both testament.
I agree with you on the language and cultural similarities on the plateau. From Pankshin to kanke to Mangu and even to bokkos.... The tribes there are similar to ngas. Even to Tapshin in bauchi.... They speak Ngas there.
I will want to learn from you. You know alot about our history. Kindly clarify me.

Nowenuse:


Wow, very enlightening. Thanks.

It was very obvious that during the old regional govts, minority groups were treated as 'pieces of trash'. You can imagine a yoruba man faraway in yoruba land dividing people's history, origins and destinies just because of politics and all in the name of a united western region. .... This is why as much as I hate Yakubu Gowon for not standing for the middlebelt people, I guess I and most of we Nigerian minorities still owe him that gratitude for creating states. Although midwestern minorities already got their own region before that time, so, Eastern & northern minorities were the ones who really benefited.

Northern minority groups experienced worse under regional govts, apart from being cut to bits, the British connived with the Sokoto sultanate to plant in Emirs and Hausa settlements all over the northern region, even in areas that were never conquered by fulani jihad and had no businesses with an Emir. A lot of towns that never belonged to Hausa people were renamed into Hausa language.
In 1964, the Sardauna ordered soldiers to descend on Tiv people and massacre those who were protesting against northern inclusion and Hausa/fulani domination.


Yeah, I remember the stories I heard of Sapele and how influential it was in those days. It is sad that the town is now a shadow of it's past glory.

Nice submission. This is one of the reason the southern minority are scared of forming any alliance with these major ethnic group. We all know what the minorities suffered in Western, eastern and Northern region.

I feel more for the northern minorities, and I really wish you guys should stand up and fight for your right .

drealzum:

My boss.....Can you refrence me any material to read on your source of info. I want to know how authentic they are. I'm asking because I know the Ngas bible is just made up of one testament. I don't know if the second testament has been completed. How then can we say the Ngas bible is older than the Hausa bible that has both old and new testament ? The Hausa bible was what was used to spread Christianity across the north I will want to believe.
I have seen the berom bible. It is complete. Made up of both old and new testament. I will want to believe then that the berom started work on the bible before the Ngas since the have both testament.
I agree with you on the language and cultural similarities on the plateau. From Pankshin to kanke to Mangu and even to bokkos.... The tribes there are similar to ngas. Even to Tapshin in bauchi.... They speak Ngas there.
I will want to learn from you. You know alot about our history. Kindly clarify me.

Interesting to see how you landed here, since this thread is on an entirely different topic.

Let me check my archives for some of these materials and I will get back to you.

Efewestern:


Nice submission. This is one of the reason the southern minority are scared of forming any alliance with these major ethnic group. We all know what the minorities suffered in Western, eastern and Northern region.

I feel more for the northern minorities, and I really wish you guys should stand up and fight for your right .

Thanks, you have said the truth.

It's not as if northern minorities have never been fighting for their rights.
Before Independence in 1956, the United middlebelt congress officially petitioned the Willinks comission to create an independent middlebelt region for all northern minorities. The stupid white man completely ignored the petition.
There were the Tiv riots in 1964 against Northern region inclusion, but they were masaccred back into submission. There was another strong Berom movement in Jos around the early 80's.

The 3 greatest factors that have fought against the complete liberation of northern minorities was religion, language and effects of Indirect rule!
The British radically promoted the spread of Hausa language during colonial period. This adoption of Hausa language made most northern minorities develop some soft spot and sense of false unity for the Hausas and this made them feel they were somewhat one people with the hausas binded by one language and destiny. Not until the deceitfulness of this union became glaring for all the minorities to see.

Many northern minorities converted to islam and this further cemented their ties with Hausa-fulanis. The false propaganda of islamic brotherhood and oneness and it's dangerous effects. A propaganda which the fulanis have been masters at using. If the fulanis could subjugate a tribe as large as the Hausa using religion, then rest assured northern minorities are no match.

Lastly, the effects of Indirect rule. Take for instance Southern Kaduna, a place with over 90% chrisitian population, yet all their traditional leaders were Fulani muslims from Zaria, not until some years ago when they all violently pulled out of Zaria emirate rulership and today they have their own chiefdoms. Prior to the revolt, Fulani muslims were representing them in all traditional ramifications and affairs. You can imagine that. How could such people ever be free? This was one major reason why they were never included in the old Benue-Plateau state, as they were considered a property/territory of Zaria.
A lot of northern minorities are still suffering this colonial effect till date and are still being ruled by fulani emirs, many have pulled out, but many are still under.
We in Plateau for instance they wanted to force us under Bauchi emirate fulani islamic rule, but our fathers heavily rejected this and we were granted our own province and traditional institution since colonial period.

Lastly, after Yakubu Gowon created the first 12 states, most northern minorities now had their own states and controlled their own states, so they saw no need for any more fight for middlebelt region. Middlebelt identity was heavily promoted by many Benue-Plateau leaders in the old Benue-Plateau state for instance, not until successive military rulers divided the states more and brought back geo-political zones (North central) to increase Northernization.


You Bendelites were very lucky if you ask me, Yoruba people are not very much interested in dominating minorities, unlike Igbos & Hausa-fulanis.

If not for the civil war that liberated the Eastern minorities from Igbo grip. Igbos dominated and subjugated these eastern minorities in their own lands.

Take Omoku town in Rivers state for instance, till now they do not sell lands for Igbos over there. Apparently they claim that it was because of what Igbos did to them over there during the old regional govt. They claimed that Igbos controlled their town, dominated everything there and even ridiculed them the natives over there, until they were liberated during the war.

If not for the civil war that displaced Igbos from PH. The entire PH was heavily dominated and controlled by Igbos. Ikwerres, Ijaws & Ogonis were not even a factor to consider. .... PH would have been completely Igbonized and under firm Igbo grip by now. Ijaws, Ikwerres and Ogonis would have been displaced inwards into the hinterlands, if not for the civil war.

Cross River has it's own story too. ...
Southern minorities had just been lucky compared to northern minorities if you ask me. And this was largely because the British were on the side of the Hausa-fulanis throughout colonial period.

Nowenuse:


Thanks, you have said the truth.

It's not as if northern minorities have never been fighting for their rights.
Before Independence in 1956, the United middlebelt congress officially petitioned the Willinks comission to create an independent middlebelt region for all northern minorities. The stupid white man completely ignored the petition.
There were the Tiv riots in 1964 against Northern region inclusion, but they were masaccred back into submission. There was another strong Berom movement in Jos around the early 80's.

The 3 greatest factors that have fought against the complete liberation of northern minorities was religion, language and effects of Indirect rule!
The British radically promoted the spread of Hausa language during colonial period. This adoption of Hausa language made most northern minorities develop some soft spot and sense of false unity for the Hausas and this made them feel they were somewhat one people with the hausas binded by one language and destiny. Not until the deceitfulness of this union became glaring for all the minorities to see.

Many northern minorities converted to islam and this further cemented their ties with Hausa-fulanis. The false propaganda of islamic brotherhood and oneness and it's dangerous effects. A propaganda which the fulanis have been masters at using. If the fulanis could subjugate a tribe as large as the Hausa using religion, then rest assured northern minorities are no match.

Lastly, the effects of Indirect rule. Take for instance Southern Kaduna, a place with over 90% chrisitian population, yet all their traditional leaders were Fulani muslims from Zaria, not until some years ago when they all violently pulled out of Zaria emirate rulership and today they have their own chiefdoms. Prior to the revolt, Fulani muslims were representing them in all traditional ramifications and affairs. You can imagine that. How could such people ever be free? This was one major reason why they were never included in the old Benue-Plateau state, as they were considered a property/territory of Zaria.
A lot of northern minorities are still suffering this colonial effect till date and are still being ruled by fulani emirs, many have pulled out, but many are still under.
We in Plateau for instance they wanted to force us under Bauchi emirate fulani islamic rule, but our fathers heavily rejected this and we were granted our own province and traditional institution since colonial period.

Lastly, after Yakubu Gowon created the first 12 states, most northern minorities now had their own states and controlled their own states, so they saw no need for any more fight for middlebelt region. Middlebelt identity was heavily promoted by many Benue-Plateau leaders in the old Benue-Plateau state for instance, not until successive military rulers divided the states more and brought back geo-political zones (North central) to increase Northernization.


You Bendelites were very lucky if you ask me, Yoruba people are not very much interested in dominating minorities, unlike Igbos & Hausa-fulanis.

If not for the civil war that liberated the Eastern minorities from Igbo grip. Igbos dominated and subjugated these eastern minorities in their own lands.

Take Omoku town in Rivers state for instance, till now they do not sell lands for Igbos over there. Apparently they claim that it was because of what Igbos did to them over there during the old regional govt. They claimed that Igbos controlled their town, dominated everything there and even ridiculed them the natives over there, until they were liberated during the war.

If not for the civil war that displaced Igbos from PH. The entire PH was heavily dominated and controlled by Igbos. Ikwerres, Ijaws & Ogonis were not even a factor to consider. .... PH would have been completely Igbonized and under firm Igbo grip by now. Ijaws, Ikwerres and Ogonis would have been displaced inwards into the hinterlands, if not for the civil war.

Cross River has it's own story too. ...
Southern minorities had just been lucky compared to northern minorities if you ask me. And this was largely because the British were on the side of the Hausa-fulanis throughout colonial period.

I now understand better, but I still don't know why most Northern minorities defend the Hausa/Fulani almost every time even with all the oppressions and killings.

@Bolded, I beg to differ, the yorubas favoured all yoruboid Group leaving others to their fate, they almost made it look like the region was 100% Yoruba.

As for eastern region, if you know, u know. .

Nice points, I learnt something new today

Efewestern:


I now understand better, but I still don't know why most Northern minorities defend the Hausa/Fulani almost every time even with all the oppressions and killings.

@Bolded, I beg to differ, the yorubas favoured all yoruboid Group leaving others to their fate, they almost made it look like the region was 100% Yoruba.

As for eastern region, if you know, u know. .

Nice points, I learnt something new today

The only northern minorities that can even think of defending Hausa fulanis are those who were islamized and have heavily mixed with fulanis e. g Nupe & Gbagyi muslims of Niger state.

I know yorubas favoured Itsekiris with the Olu title. Apart from that what else? Did they favour the Olukumis of Delta north or the Akoko-Edo axis? They would have easily annexed that part of Edo north and even the Yoruba speaking parts of Benin that are close to Ondo, but they didn't.

Stop talking nonesense. I would like to know which Benin you are talking about, are you talking about Benin City or Benin Kingdom or Benin republic ? Second of all, I recall the yoruba trying everything in the book to impose their language on the midwest. The only reason anybody ever spoke yoruba in the midwest was because of the fact that the yoruba forced their language in everybody's throat !
For your information the Akoko-Edo are Edo, not yoruba and so are the Edo-north people. You yoruba are very confused, you keep thinking that all southerners whom are not igbo must be yoruba. It is very simple, the yoruba favoured yoruba in the western region and tried to annihilate all other cultures and people. Stop trying to rewrite history with your mixture of ignorance and lies.

Nowenuse:


The only northern minorities that can even think of defending Hausa fulanis are those who were islamized and have heavily mixed with fulanis e. g Nupe & Gbagyi muslims of Niger state.

I know yorubas favoured Itsekiris with the Olu title. Apart from that what else? Did they favour the Olukumis of Delta north or the Akoko-Edo axis? They would have easily annexed that part of Edo north and even the Yoruba speaking parts of Benin that are close to Ondo, but they didn't.

Restrict your talk to what you know !
Don't tell me what you don't know.
We had to fight against the yoruba, the yoruba tried to force their langauage and culture and even their traditional rulers upon us.
We fougfht against them and we won.

Nowenuse:


You Bendelites were very lucky if you ask me, Yoruba people are not very much interested in dominating minorities, unlike Igbos & Hausa-fulanis.

prolog2:
Stop talking nonesense. I would like to know which Benin you are talking about, are you talking about Benin City or Benin Kingdom or Benin republic ? Second of all, I recall the yoruba trying everything in the book to impose their language on the midwest. The only reason anybody ever spoke yoruba in the midwest was because of the fact that the yoruba forced their language in everybody's throat !
For your information the Akoko-Edo are Edo, not yoruba and so are the Edo-north people. You yoruba are very confused, you keep thinking that all southerners whom are not igbo must be yoruba. It is very simple, the yoruba favoured yoruba in the western region and tried to annihilate all other cultures and people. Stop trying to rewrite history with your mixture of ignorance and lies.

I am not yoruba. I never said Akoko edo are yoruba people, they only have great yoruba influence in terms of language as they speak yoruba as a 2nd language, perhaps due to closeness to yorubas.

Usen is a Benin town, don't they speak a yoruba dialect as their mother tongue?

Northern minorities are talking of how hausa language was forced on them and you are talking of how you fought off imposition of yoruba language. How exactly did that happen?

Did yorubas form settlements and kingship in your areas like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas ban the missionaries from evangelizing to your people in their native languages like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas rename Bendel towns like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas migrate to dominate any Bendel towns like Igbos did to Rivers people and Hausas did to northern minorities.

Abeg, when northern & eastern minorities are talking of heavy domination in the old regional govts, Bendelites (old western minorities) should not talk.
Hausas & Igbos were far more ruthless in the aspect of dominating minorities compared to yorubas.

Wherever you are getting your data, you need to burn that place down.
The few Edo who know yoruba do so because of either time spent in yoruba towns or rests from the period in which yoruba were trying to force their language upon everybody in the west. I don't recall asking you if you were yoruba. The fact that you feel the need to claim not being yoruba exposes a large pro-yoruba biase on your part, perharps you are yoruba.

Nowenuse:

I am not yoruba. I never said Akoko edo are yoruba people, they only have great yoruba influence in terms of language as they speak yoruba as a 2nd language, perhaps due to closeness to yorubas.

Once again, you need to burn the place in which you are getting your informations, your info is not accurate. No part of Edo-state speaks yoruba, or "a yoruba dialect". And please I would like to know what makes a language a "yoruba dialect" because it seems very easy to characterize languages and peoples as being yoruba.

Nowenuse:

Usen is a Benin town, don't they speak a yoruba dialect as their mother tongue?

We fought them off by getting our land and people out of the western region and into a region of our own (The midwest)

Nowenuse:

Northern minorities are talking of how hausa language was forced on them and you are talking of how you fought off imposition of yoruba language. How exactly did that happen?

Now it seems you are an illiterate in history.
What you are talking about are historical impossibilities.
The Benin Kingdom was already an established and powerful Kingdom which was defeated by the british and that is how it ended up in nigeria.
Even in their wildest dreams the yoruba never had any power to do what you are talking about in the Benin Kingdom (the balance of power was the other way around).
You don't seem to understand that the political power the yorubas had was given to them by their british masters (as thank you for their unnopposed servitude to the british), the yoruba had no power of their own. It really seems that you are verry confused. You seem to not know who exactly was the colonial power and who was taking orders from whom ?
For your info in the colonial era, the haussas, the igbo and the yoruba didn't give orders to the british as you seem to think, it went the other way around, that is why it was called "colonial era".
So what you are saying is a historical impossibility.

Nowenuse:

Did yorubas form settlements and kingship in your areas like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas ban the missionaries from evangelizing to your people in their native languages like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas rename Bendel towns like Hausas did to northern minorities? Did yorubas migrate to dominate any Bendel towns like Igbos did to Rivers people and Hausas did to northern minorities.

prolog2:
Wherever you are getting your data, you need to burn that place down.
The few Edo who know yoruba do so because of either time spent in yoruba towns or rests from the period in which yoruba were trying to force their language upon everybody in the west. I don't recall asking you if you were yoruba. The fact that you feel the need to claim not being yoruba exposes a large pro-yoruba biase on your part, perharps you are yoruba.


Once again, you need to burn the place in which you are getting your informations, your info is not accurate. No part of Edo-state speaks yoruba, or "a yoruba dialect". And please I would like to know what makes a language a "yoruba dialect" because it seems very easy to characterize languages and peoples as being yoruba.

We fought them off by getting our land and people out of the western region and into a region of our own (The midwest)

Now it seems you are an illiterate in history.
What you are talking about are historical impossibilities.
The Benin Kingdom was already an established and powerful Kingdom which was defeated by the british and that is how it ended up in nigeria.
Even in their wildest dreams the yoruba never had any power to do what you are talking about in the Benin Kingdom (the balance of power was the other way around).
You don't seem to understand that the political power the yorubas had was given to them by their british masters (as thank you for their unnopposed servitude to the british), the yoruba had no power of their own. It really seems that you are verry confused. You seem to not know who exactly was the colonial power and who was taking orders from whom ?
For your info in the colonial era, the haussas, the igbo and the yoruba didn't give orders to the british as you seem to think, it went the other way around, that is why it was called "colonial era".
So what you are saying is a historical impossibility.

Please just stop blabbering and follow the thread from the first page. Nowenuse is not Yoruba and he has made that obvious times without number. I am a Deltan and trust me, Yorubas did not impose their hegemony on us. The issue my people had with them has already been established on this thread and it was nothing like forcing their language or culture on us.

You Bini people seem to have an ego issue with the Yorùbá people. Don't extend that micro-issue to the entire minorities in the then Western region. No one is fighting the Benin kingdom. Stop it already with the paranoia!

Finally, you keep mentioning the British without any regard for the fact that the discussion Nowenuse and I have been engaged in is set in the early postcolonial period. Whatever the colonial masters intended effectively ended in 1960 and whatever happened after that became the wish of Nigerians or her leaders.

you are calling the british masters, so I guess you are their slave.
An ijaw guy talking again.
When will you people finally go to school and learn rather than trying to debate those who have actually learned ?
"Paranoia" ? Let me inform you that there are actual written traces of what I am talking about.
But, why border talking about facts when an uneducated guy can just start denying everything and throwing the word "paranoia" around ?
I bet you don't even know what the Benin Kingdom is and that you confuse it with Benin City (it's capital).
For your info, Delta-state and Edo-state are parts of the Benin Kingdom.

fratermathy:


Please just stop blabbering and follow the thread from the first page. Nowenuse is not Yoruba and he has made that obvious times without number. I am a Deltan and trust me, Yorubas did not impose their hegemony on us. The issue my people had with them has already been established on this thread and it was nothing like forcing their language or culture on us.

You Bini people seem to have an ego issue with the Yorùbá people. Don't extend that micro-issue to the entire minorities in the then Western region. No one is fighting the Benin kingdom. Stop it already with the paranoia!

Finally, you keep mentioning the British without any regard for the fact that the discussion Nowenuse and I have been engaged in is set in the early postcolonial period. Whatever the colonial masters intended effectively ended in 1960 and whatever happened after that became the wish of Nigerians or her leaders.

prolog2:
you are calling the british masters, so I guess you are their slave.
An ijaw guy talking again.
When will you people finally go to school and learn rather than trying to debate those who have actually learned ?
"Paranoia" ? Let me inform you that there are actual written traces of what I am talking about.
But, why border talking about facts when an uneducated guy can just start denying everything and throwing the word "paranoia" around ?
I bet you don't even know what the Benin Kingdom is and that you confuse it with Benin City (it's capital).
For your info, Delta-state and Edo-state are parts of the Benin Kingdom.

Suit yourself. The point has been made.

Don't push your royal delusions too far. Delta is not part of Benin kingdom! Almost all polities in Delta have their own Kings! Perhaps, what you intended to express was the fact that the Benin Kingdom, in their usual manner, did not allow any king near Benin to flourish without paying tributes to the Oba.

However, paying tributes to a king who used his military might to threaten others is not the same as being under his kingdom. You guys should try and do a little research on what defines a people or a polity as being part of a kingdom. Two Kings cannot exist in a kingdom! As long as the polities in Delta had and has Kings, they never were, are not and will never be part of Benin kingdom. You can stop your delusion with Edo State. Don't take it out of there and push your luck!

The point has been made. Don't mention me to blabber like a toddler.

Ofcourse there can't be 2 kings in a kingdom, but there can be dukes, counts, magistrates, tax collectors, chiefs and all who work for the king. It is a well known fact that Delta-state and Edo-state among others were part of Benin Kingdom.
After Benin Kingdom lost a war to the british, a bunch of Edo nobles declared themselves kings.
That is why you are confused today.

Precolonial maps of Benin Kingdom
This one dates to around 1699:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595525w/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

fratermathy:


Suit yourself. The point has been made.

Don't push your royal delusions too far. Delta is not part of Benin kingdom! Almost all polities in Delta have their own Kings! Perhaps, what you intended to express was the fact that the Benin Kingdom, in their usual manner, did not allow any king near Benin to flourish without paying tributes to the Oba.

However, paying tributes to a king who used his military might to threaten others is not the same as being under his kingdom. You guys should try and do a little research on what defines a people or a polity as being part of a kingdom. Two Kings cannot exist in a kingdom! As long as the polities in Delta had and has Kings, they never were, are not and will never be part of Benin kingdom. You can stop your delusion with Edo State. Don't take it out of there and push your luck!

The point has been made. Don't mention me to blabber like a toddler.

prolog2:
you are calling the british masters, so I guess you are their slave.
An ijaw guy talking again.
When will you people finally go to school and learn rather than trying to debate those who have actually learned ?
"Paranoia" ? Let me inform you that there are actual written traces of what I am talking about.
But, why border talking about facts when an uneducated guy can just start denying everything and throwing the word "paranoia" around ?
I bet you don't even know what the Benin Kingdom is and that you confuse it with Benin City (it's capital).
For your info, Delta-state and Edo-state are parts of the Benin Kingdom.

Let me correct this.. @bolded Delta state is not part of Bini kingdom, You kingdom starts and ends in your Edo state, this is not 1800 or 14000.

Funny how you accuse others of domination while on the other hand you are busy trying to dominate other ethnic group in Delta state , this is 2018 , wake up.. Deltans only respect the Bini kingdom, they are not under them or inferior to any group/race/tribe including your overrated Bini kingdom.

Limit your stuff to Edo state. Thanks.

prolog2:
Wherever you are getting your data, you need to burn that place down.
The few Edo who know yoruba do so because of either time spent in yoruba towns or rests from the period in which yoruba were trying to force their language upon everybody in the west. I don't recall asking you if you were yoruba. The fact that you feel the need to claim not being yoruba exposes a large pro-yoruba biase on your part, perharps you are yoruba.


Once again, you need to burn the place in which you are getting your informations, your info is not accurate. No part of Edo-state speaks yoruba, or "a yoruba dialect". And please I would like to know what makes a language a "yoruba dialect" because it seems very easy to characterize languages and peoples as being yoruba.

We fought them off by getting our land and people out of the western region and into a region of our own (The midwest)

Now it seems you are an illiterate in history.
What you are talking about are historical impossibilities.
The Benin Kingdom was already an established and powerful Kingdom which was defeated by the british and that is how it ended up in nigeria.
Even in their wildest dreams the yoruba never had any power to do what you are talking about in the Benin Kingdom (the balance of power was the other way around).
You don't seem to understand that the political power the yorubas had was given to them by their british masters (as thank you for their unnopposed servitude to the british), the yoruba had no power of their own. It really seems that you are verry confused. You seem to not know who exactly was the colonial power and who was taking orders from whom ?
For your info in the colonial era, the haussas, the igbo and the yoruba didn't give orders to the british as you seem to think, it went the other way around, that is why it was called "colonial era".
So what you are saying is a historical impossibility.

I have observed that you are someone who just loves arguing with extreme bigotry and bitterness for the sake of arguing.

If you do not know that the natives of Usen (Uhen) town in Ovia south west, Benin, speak yoruba as a first language and you are not bothered to find out, then I'm sorry, no hope for any further discussions between you and I and never you quote me anymore.

You used the word 'you yorubas' in your previous comment to me and you are now telling me that you never hinted that I was a yoruba? Are you sure you are alright?

You said that the yorubas tried to impose their language on you and I asked you how? I am from the middlebelt and I am ready to give 1,001 proofs of how the Hausas have been forcefully trying to colonize the northern minorities. Give us proof of your claims pls.

Akoko edo people adopted yoruba as a 2nd language obviously due to proximity to yorubas, just as some middlebelt tribes like Bariba, Ogori magongo and Kwara Nupes too adopted yoruba as a 2nd language due to proximity to yoruba people.

Talking about how yorubas could not do anything to Benin during the old regional govt due to how large and powerful Benin kingdom was in the past makes no sense.
Kwararafa, Kanem-Bornu and Igala kingdoms were also very large and powerful kingdoms until the British conquered everyone and lumped some of us under Hausa fulani control and yoruba control.

I am not arguing with you about how the British gave yorubas power over the western region. The same British gave Igbos power over the eastern region and power to Hausa fulanis over the northern region and entire Nigeria at large.

fratermathy:


Please just stop blabbering and follow the thread from the first page. Nowenuse is not Yoruba and he has made that obvious times without number. I am a Deltan and trust me, Yorubas did not impose their hegemony on us. The issue my people had with them has already been established on this thread and it was nothing like forcing their language or culture on us.

You Bini people seem to have an ego issue with the Yorùbá people. Don't extend that micro-issue to the entire minorities in the then Western region. No one is fighting the Benin kingdom. Stop it already with the paranoia!

Finally, you keep mentioning the British without any regard for the fact that the discussion Nowenuse and I have been engaged in is set in the early postcolonial period. Whatever the colonial masters intended effectively ended in 1960 and whatever happened after that became the wish of Nigerians or her leaders.

Don't mind that prolog2 of a guy. I think he is a troll. I now remember that I have encountered him before in a previous thread. He just likes to argue without any reasonable understanding of the discourse at hand. Can't you see the way he just jumped into the thread with arrogance? Completely ignoring all the past discussions. I will not even waste my time to reply him again.

Imagine him addressing me as a yoruba.
While I acknowledge the fact that yorubas played some divide and rule tactics to western minorities. It is very obvious that western minorities were the least dominated among the Nigerian minorities during the regional govts and it was not even as if western minorities were much in numbers or even had what it takes to challenge yorubas in terms of anything.
Eastern minorities and northern minorities by far outnumbered western minorities in population, yet they still experienced more domination by Igbos & Hausa -fulanis..
Igbos and Hausas went as far as annexing minority territories and massacring minority uprisings into submission .... Anyone can see that Hausas & Igbos are very power-hungry by nature compared to Yorubas and this was exactly what played out in the old regions. ... So this is why if a western minority talks of suffering domination in the old regional govts, it is seen as a joke compared to what eastern & northern minorities experienced.

fratermathy:


Suit yourself. The point has been made.

Don't push your royal delusions too far. Delta is not part of Benin kingdom! Almost all polities in Delta have their own Kings! Perhaps, what you intended to express was the fact that the Benin Kingdom, in their usual manner, did not allow any king near Benin to flourish without paying tributes to the Oba.

However, paying tributes to a king who used his military might to threaten others is not the same as being under his kingdom. You guys should try and do a little research on what defines a people or a polity as being part of a kingdom. Two Kings cannot exist in a kingdom! As long as the polities in Delta had and has Kings, they never were, are not and will never be part of Benin kingdom. You can stop your delusion with Edo State. Don't take it out of there and push your luck!

The point has been made. Don't mention me to blabber like a toddler.

Efewestern:


Let me correct this.. @bolded Delta state is not part of Bini kingdom, You kingdom starts and ends in your Edo state, this is not 1800 or 14000.

Funny how you accuse others of domination while on the other hand you are busy trying to dominate other ethnic group in Delta state , this is 2018 , wake up.. Deltans only respect the Bini kingdom, they are not under them or inferior to any group/race/tribe including your overrated Bini kingdom.

Limit your stuff to Edo state. Thanks.

Great comments from you guys.

Many Benin people so much like to overrate the power of the ancient Bini kingdom, just because the kingdom was the most coastal of all ancient Nigerian kingdoms and by virtue of that had early contacts with European sailors.

Benins forget that there are ancient Nigerian kingdoms who were larger and more developed than them in many aspects.
Before colonialism, Benins never read nor wrote anything, they largely relied on folklore for passing down or storing any information, whereas the people of Sokoto sultanate, Kanem-Bornu kingdom and Kwararafa kingdom were already largely literate and could read and write before white people came. They even developed writing systems of their own languages in Arabic script.

Benins walked on barefoot and largely practiced human sacrifice, while ancient northern kingdoms were already riding horses and camels with shoes and going for pilgrimages, travelling and trading with the middle-east.

I am not trying to denigrate the Benin kingdom or her achievements in any way, I cherish and respect their great history but they must know that the history of Nigeria or west Africa does not revolve around them.

There were other greater empires in west africa like that of Mali whom the Benins if compared with them cannot match them in any aspect, yet we don't see Malians disturbing everyone else with their history and claiming everyone else in west africa. Today, Nigerians are dominating Mali in west african politics.
Kanuris and Kwararafans once defeated and ruled Hausas in the past, but today, Hausas are heavily dominating Kanuris and Kwararafans in northern Nigeria. History always change and people have to move on regardless.

I just keep wondering why every idiot non Edo just believe themselves to be experts in Edo history.
Are these precolonial maps the fruit of Edo imagination ?

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595525w/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom
Is thos also the fruit of Edo imagination ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2Tac1gNPU

Nowenuse:


...

For your info, Edo also rode horse fool!
And also, Edo wrote their history through the imperial bronze !
Also I really don't understanding your boasting of the fact that some point in time your people copied the arab culture.
Your people were conquered by people who used to be slaves to the arabs (the fulani). You guys are the only people who see your islamic culture as something to boast about and also as something which is better than other cultures.
In terms of military might, all your northern kingdoms were dwarefed by Benin Kingdom.
In terms of trade, your northern kingdoms were extremly poor while Benin Kingdom was really rich.
In terms of carftsmanship, you guys were once again dwarfed by Benin Kingdom.
So please, shut the f*ck up.

Is this also the fruit of Edo imagination ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlUMUGUorw&t=10s

Even the expression "City" in Benin City (the capital of Benin Kingdom).
Is that expression also from the imagination of the Edo ?
Or does it come from the european visitors who were mervelled at the sight of the city and who called it city because it was in the same league with the great cities of europe and unlike most cities in africa at that time ?

The truth is that a lot of you guys are just living in denial either out of jealousy or out of lack of self esteem or out of a wish to rewrite your history. Benin Kingdom was great, deal with it ! Because you can't change the past !

Is this also from Edo imagination ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFFYH3GAmBk

Is this from Edo imagination ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqVyPSHhozM

Is this from Edo imagination ?

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185/f1.item.r=biafra.zoom

This is just to have you know once and for all that Edo are not the ones whom are exagerating the might of their Kingdom, rather it is you guys who keep trying to deny even the existence of Benin Kingdom. Benin Kingdom shines too bright and casts a shadow upon your chiefs.
But there is nothing you can do about this, accept facts and stop your denial. The way you guys are going, it feels like everybody is authorized to talk about Benin Kingdom, except ofcourse the actual Edo (unless it is a self hating fool like efewestern).

Prolog2 my brother don't mind the scumbags on this thread , as for those traitors that don't even know their history , that don't consult their Edo attire wearing Ovies abi whatever thier kings are called thier day of fallacy is near don't even bother about them , they are inconsequential... WE DO NO NEED TRAITORS!!

clefstone:
I grew up in Uvwie but I'm surprised that the Uvwie and indeed the Urhobo people do not talk about their history to as far back as 200yrs ago. Since u r a proud Urhobo son, my question to u is, do the Urhobo people have a long history, why don't we have an urhobo kingdom(exception is Okpe kingdom) with up to 10 kings in their history

Well, you've not searched enough certainly. A people's history is not necessarily tied to their political developments so monarchy is not necessarily the first thing you must look at especially when talking about a peculiar ethnicity like the Urhobo. The Igbe religion for example was founded by Ubiesha of Kokori around 1848.
That said, there are a number of ancient Urhobo Kingdoms. Ughelli for example, has had a long, unbroken line of succession(more than 10 Kings) for centuries. Ajuwe Idjesa, Ovie of Ughelli singned a treaty between Ughelli Kingdom and the British crown in 1894. The Okpe you point to has had just 4 Kings in their history. It's just that the Urhobo people largely lived and traded quitely and peacefully before the Colonial times. I enjoin you to search more for Urhobo history. The website of the Urhobo Historical Society, Waado.org is a good one I can recommend.

The orodje of okpe

iguita:
I am not tackling you, I am just asking for information basis. Is this king more important than Olu of Warrior?

It depends on how you define 'importance'. The Olu of Warri[warrior? ] is as important to the Itsekiri people as the Ovie of Uvwie is to the Uvwie people of Urhobo.

Is there a difference between a Chief and an Olorogun? Cos I thought Olorogun means Chief but I have seen people use the two titles differently

Thank you.

Opharhe:
It depends on how you define 'importance'. The Olu of Warri[warrior? ] is as important to the Itsekiri people as the Ovie of Uvwie is to the Uvwie people of Urhobo.