Odunayaw:
Did I argue about mercs? no

We never "wanted to" use your SF

I just cited reputable news outlets that say you did, go argue with them not me

Patchesagain:


No, it wouldent.

The French stayed in their airport through-out the battle. the rebels themselves offered a cease-fire.

The rebels actually paraded captured SA spoils of war after SA 'Paras' fled to Bangui Airport for French protection. That's the historical fact.

jln115:

I just cited reputable news outlets that say you did, go argue with them not me

Fake News.

Covert1:


It's relevant as he wouldn't have invaded Russia which was his main goal if he didn't think he would win.

Tut tut

Seems your understanding of psychology is as poor as your understanding of military history.

PS: the Tiger only hit the feild at the end of '42 and the Panther in '43

Covert1:


The rebels actually paraded captured SA spoils of war after SA 'Paras' fled Bangui Airport for French protection. That's the historical fact.

The people of Bangui built a statue to our men and begged for our return. This is also a historical fact.

Talking of captured equipment... shall we discuss Vickers tanks, T-55's, MT-LB's, Streit MRAP's, D-30 howitzers and Mowag Prianahs?

Covert1:


Fake News.

Fake military researcher
then fake soldier
now fake Trump

Just be yourself!

jln115:

Nigeria used South African mercenaries that's a fact mate!!

Obviously we never sent our SF to fight BH hence I used the word "wanted to"

Yes a bunch of extraordinary pensions seekers from South Africa saved Nigerian from the hands of Boko Haram Islamist Terrorists, happy

Covert1:


It's relevant as he wouldn't have invaded Russia which was his main goal if he didn't think he would win.

The Germans quickly came up with an answer for the T-34 and by the end of 1941 the Russians had lost over 2000+ T-34 Tanks.

Of course he thought he could win?? That why he invaded Russia? But that's not even close to the point I was making.

Yes I know?? Thanks for proving my point!

jakeporeshenko:

Yes a bunch of extraordinary pensions seekers from South Africa saved Nigerian from the hands of Boko Haram Islamist Terrorists, happy

Did I say that? Maybe go look how this debate started, then come back.

Not once did I even try to bash Nigeria... All I said was Nigeria used SAn mercs that's all.

Patchesagain:


The people of Bangui built a statue to our men and begged for our return. This is also a historical fact.

Talking of captured equipment... shall we discuss Vickers tanks, T-55's, MT-LB's, Streit MRAP's, D-30 howitzers and Mowag Prianahs?

According to the French commander at Bangui Airport "the South Africans said they have had enough and don't want anything more to do with it and just want to get out and quickly".

— so much for wanting your return and statues in a place where a rag-tag militia gave SA 'Paras' a beating of their life.

Speaking of captured equipment, everything BHT got in the fog of war was either destroyed or recaptured. Everyone knows it.

Covert1:


According to the French commander at Bangui Airport "the South Africans said they have had enough and don't want anything more to do with it and just want to get out and quickly".
.

Source?

The voices in your head maybe?

Covert1:


According to the French commander at Bangui Airport "the South Africans said they have had enough and don't want anything more to do with it and just want to get out and quickly".

— so much for wanting your return and statues in a place where a rag-tag militia gave SA 'Paras' a beating of their life.

Speaking of captured equipment, everything BHT got in the fog of war was either destroyed or recaptured. Everyone knows it.

"SA soldiers carved us up, say rebels"

jln115:

"SA soldiers carved us up, say rebels"

Actually only the Southies tell us that.

The rebels were seen flaunting captured SA equipment and even had PhotoOps with Journalists in Bangui. It's all over the news.

Patchesagain:


Source?

?

I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

Patchesagain:


No, it wouldent.

The French stayed in their airport through-out the battle. the rebels themselves offered a cease-fire.

And the USMC came peacekeeping

Its nauseating you rubbish the ECOMOG because of petty arguments

Covert1:


I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

If its all over the Internet why can't you quote one source?

Oh yes because you made it up!

Covert1:


Actually only the Southies tell us that.

The rebels were seen flaunting captured SA equipment and even had PhotoOps with Journalists in Bangui. It's all over the news.

Nope that's straight from the horses mouth and unlike you I can actually provide a source.... Would you like to see it?

Patchesagain:


You you say that there is vast conspiracy at play? The age-old alliance between the military and liberal academics strikes again!

Dude, I hate to break it to you - but we dont feel the need to construct narratives. Infact, we tend to be hyper-critical... because thats how you learn how to do things better. Just go to Defenceweb and read the tone of the articles and comments, and then compare it to a place like beegeagles blog. South Africans are, generally speaking, critical and skeptical by nature.

The operations, and their successes were widely documented - hundreds of photos of row after row of captured equipment.

My point, your narrative is not all encompassing and its one sided, don't tell me nothing about self righteousness.
You're also confusing a whole operation with battles/skirmishes

How many articles & comments did you read on Beegeagles blog that makes you think Nigerians are "generally speaking, non critical and obsequious by nature"? really?

jln115:

I just cited reputable news outlets that say you did, go argue with them not me

Just own up you brought up trite and stop dilly dallying

Odunayaw:
Just own up you brought up trite and stop dilly dallying

Dude I quoted reputable sources, also I never said our SFs were going to fight BH in fact when the news first broke 2 years ago I wasone of the first to say we won't deploy to Nigeria, q
I quoted those sources since it was relevant to the debate I was having with covert.....which you decided to join without actually reading the comments made by him leading up to this post.

jln115:

Did I say that? Maybe go look how this debate started, then come back.

Not once did I even try to bash Nigeria... All I said was Nigeria used SAn mercs that's all.

but on page 19 you made a bogus claim that Nigeria requested south African S.F, hows that not bashing? when all those fake articles were first published weren't you among those sensible people that refuted the claims, theres absolutely no logic behind it and it is not done anywhere.

you know very well that is fictitious comic book nonsense, something similar to what SSGN types on his blog.

so why the sudden change of mind?

even Eben (the leader of the pmc) highlighted in his books that all they did was train, adjusted doctrine and allowed the Nigerian soldiers do the fighting.

honestly i have nothing to say to any human being that believes a hand full of 20-30 men (majority of them in their 50's) singlehandedly turned the tide of a raging war against an enemy estimated to have about 15,000 fighters at that time in an area the size of Belgium!

Covert1:


I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

Why dance around?

Where is your source?

Post it! Dont be scared!

Odunayaw:
My point, your narrative is not all encompassing and its one sided, don't tell me nothing about self righteousness.
You're also confusing a whole operation with battles/skirmishes

How many articles & comments did you read on Beegeagles blog that makes you think Nigerians are "generally speaking, non critical and obsequious by nature"? really?

Well, I count operations as battles because as we know there are no singular battles in COIN... as for skirmishes and firefights, I have no idea, I suppose we must have lost one somewhere.

My criticism is more of the hubris that a large segment of Nigerian defence enthusiasts display, compared to the South African community which is generally more critical in its approach.

Covert1:


Actually only the Southies tell us that.

The rebels were seen flaunting captured SA equipment and even had PhotoOps with Journalists in Bangui. It's all over the news.

They were also seen stacking their dead in warehouses.

What is your point? That equipment gets captured in battle? Shock!

jakeporeshenko:


but on page 19 you made a bogus claim that Nigeria requested south African S.F, hows that not bashing? when all those fake articles were first published weren't you among those sensible people that refuted the claims, theres absolutely no logic behind it and it is not done anywhere.

you know very well that is fictitious comic book nonsense, something similar to what SSGN types on his blog.

so why the sudden change of mind?

even Eben (the leader of the pmc) highlighted in his books that all they did was train, adjusted doctrine and allowed the Nigerian soldiers do the fighting.

honestly i have nothing to say to any human being that believes a hand full of 20-30 men (majority of them in their 50's) singlehandedly turned the tide of a raging war against an enemy estimated to have about 15,000 fighters at that time in an area the size of Belgium!

Don't "but" .... This debate started why before page 19, in fact it started back on the picture thread..... That's why I said go read what was said by your countryman that led up to that post.

Yes I was! And I never changed my mind, but it had nothing to do with if your government "wanted" the help of our SF or not, it was simply based on our policy on foreign deployment.

Read my comment:

jln115:

Barlow was not involved in any sale of vehicles o Nigeria he was there to train your soldiers as confirmed by your own military!

not once did I say our mercenaries were actually there to fight BH or that they single-handedly turning the tide in the war.

jln115:

Don't "but" .... This debate started why before page 19, in fact it started back on the picture thread..... That's why I said go read what was said by your countryman that led up to that post.

Yes I was! And I never changed my mind, but it had nothing to do with if your government "wanted" the help of our SF or not, it was simply based on our policy on foreign deployment.

Read my comment: not once did I say our mercenaries were actually there to fight BH or that they single-handedly turning the tide in the war.

“NIGERIA even wanted our SF”
But you did, by “Nigeria” who/what were you referring to ?

jakeporeshenko:

“NIGERIA even wanted our SF”
But you did, by “Nigeria” who/what were you referring to ?

Did what?? ? I simply quoted the news articles.

Patchesagain:


Well, I count operations as battles because as we know there are no singular battles in COIN... as for skirmishes and firefights, I have no idea, I suppose we must have lost one somewhere.

My criticism is more of the hubris that a large segment of Nigerian defence enthusiasts display, compared to the South African community which is generally more critical in its approach.

Even in Op Savannah,there was still subclassification into battles. Of which the Battle of Ebo contradicts your claim

Odunayaw:
Even in Op Savannah,there was still subclassification into battles. Of which the Battle of Ebo contradicts your claim

Battle or ambush or skirmish? The authors use of verbiage is open to interpretation. Hence why I focused my statement around operations as a whole.

Also, after raising concerns about citations, you then raise the least cited piece from the entire page.

Patchesagain:


Battle or ambush or skirmish? The authors use of verbiage is open to interpretation. Hence why I focused my statement around operations as a whole.

Also, after raising concerns about citations, you then raise the least cited piece from the entire page.

I raised it because you stated you count operations & battle.

Covert1:


I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

Why are you running away?

Have you reached that awkward point where your imagination runs into a wall of fact?

SAD!

Patchesagain:


Why are you running away?

Have you reached that awkward point where your imagination runs into a wall of fact?

SAD!

Good men died because of bad leadership due to the ill military education of your top military brass political appointees. So I won't indulge your inanities for the sake of their honor.

Professionals honor their peers regardless of allegiance something I'm sure you know nothing about. But hope I helped educate you.

But if you must have the last word as always being the kid you are who always end up running for the shades and mod(s) breathless despite being often placated not to sup then tell yourself what you like to hear as usual.

The facts have been established in Bangui.